Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Speed Weed]

Mecha Seinfeld conjures up a very, very different image than Sukapon.

Sukapon is canonically a comedian robot

Therefore, he is Mecha Seinfeld

Case closed

 

[chocolatejr9]

Sukapon is canonically a comedian robot

Therefore, he is Mecha Seinfeld

Case closed

Isn't Larry the Cable Guy a comedian?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sukapon is canonically a comedian robot

Therefore, he is Mecha Seinfeld

Case closed

I think ahemtoday is picturing a possibly cursed robot design that actually resembles Seinfeld.

Not that your line of logic isn't also valid.

 

[Speed Weed]

I think ahemtoday is picturing a possibly cursed robot design that actually resembles Seinfeld.

Not that your line of logic isn't also valid.

for some ****ing reason this made me think of "seinfeld but it's a mecha anime"

I'd watch it ngl

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Just started Trails of Cold Steel.

I have not been this sucked into a JRPG in a long time. Not since Persona 5 and TWEWY. That’s high praise from me.

 

[Technomage]

I'm gonna add my take on the topic of an AT being promoted as a bonus character: Since the no AT promotions theory hasn't been debunked yet, I'm gonna formulate some possible candidates with that in mind, as in using different incarnations of said characters (or possibly characters with a different outfit from the AT). I'm also going to base this on the first-party only theory. So without further ado, let's start:

The Black Knight (as his true identity Zelgius)
Adult Isaac from Dark Dawn
Krystal in her Assault and/or Command outfits, with another typical Space Animal moveset
The Awakening or Warriors version of Lyn
Midna in her true form; either that or Wolf Link with Midna riding him
Child Tiki

 

[BlondeLombax]

They say as Nintendo published the next volume of Nekopara on Switch.

Do you mean “actually published with their name and everything” like a handful of other titles? Because... well, I’ve been way, way out of the loop.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Do you mean “actually published with their name and everything” like a handful of other titles? Because... well, I’ve been way, way out of the loop.

Nekopara for Smash confirmed?

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Sukapon is definitely one of those weird retro picks Sakurai decides to toss in. It would be really funny to have our final FP2 (or Bonus if this ID thing is right) be someone as goofy and niche as Sukapon.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sukapon is definitely one of those weird retro picks Sakurai decides to toss in. It would be really funny to have our final FP2 (or Bonus if this ID thing is right) be someone as goody and niche as Sukapon.

Last I checked, Melee has data showing that Sukapon was planned....



As an item rather than a fighter

 

[DarthEnderX]

That's true but after a single correctiom, that confusion gets cleared up for good

That's true of all of them...

"Oh, soandso actually originated from a video game?"

"Yes."

"Okay then!"

 

[ahemtoday]

That's true of all of them...

"Oh, soandso actually originated from a video game?"

"Yes."

"Okay then!"

I don't know, I'm still not convinced on Miku.

 

[LucKekkai]

Just started Trails of Cold Steel.

I have not been this sucked into a JRPG in a long time. Not since Persona 5 and TWEWY. That’s high praise from me.

I'm glad that you like it. =)

One of the things I appreciate the most regarding Cold Steel 1 is how it does such a good job of balancing out character development between so many different characters. Not just your party members or important story characters either, but also the students from the other classes that you meet in the school. If you take the time to get to know them now, the payoff is pretty big in the following Cold Steel games.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Just started Trails of Cold Steel.

I have not been this sucked into a JRPG in a long time. Not since Persona 5 and TWEWY. That’s high praise from me.

Meanwhile I'm sitting here needing to beat 2 Japan only games before I let myself touch Cold Steel, I recommend you go back to the Sky Trilogy and try to get the Crossbelle stuff done soon enough, I hear CS3's when they start expecting you to know about the older games but I can't say for sure

 

[Idon]

The Awakening or Warriors version of Lyn

Isn't that just... Lyn?

 

[SharkLord]

Isn't that just... Lyn?

idon voice LYN IS LYN

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Meanwhile I'm sitting here needing to beat 2 Japan only games before I let myself touch Cold Steel, I recommend you go back to the Sky Trilogy and try to get the Crossbelle stuff done soon enough, I hear CS3's when they start expecting you to know about the older games but I can't say for sure

I plan to do the Sky trilogy after CS2. Pacing myself RPG wise for a bit ^_^.

 

[Idon]

I plan to do the Sky trilogy after CS2. Pacing myself RPG wise for a bit ^_^.

I beg of you... please...
do Sky first.

The lore....

 

[Rie Sonomura]

ok so can anyone give me a tl;dr of the extra site slot investigation thus far? it became a bit much to follow in full the other day so an abridged version would be nice

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I plan to do the Sky trilogy after CS2. Pacing myself RPG wise for a bit ^_^.

Oh, do keep in mind there's a built-in speed up function that makes the game go 6 times faster, perfect for lengthy animations and walking through the large overworld, I've understood this was a series staple since the PC port of Cold Steel, and lemme tell you, it's a godsend for such a huge series

ok so can anyone give me a tl;dr of the extra site slot investigation thus far? it became a bit much to follow in full the other day so an abridged version would be nice

New Zealand site has a quirk that shows an extra listing, there's multiple pieces of evidence that points it being a technical ****up that means nothing

 

[spicynun]

Oh yeah, Banjo is just so dam forgettable, which is ironic because he was so highly requested.

Speak for yourself, I still think about how crazy it is they are in Smash like every day. That could be because I just got their Amiibo

 

[Wunderwaft]

Just started Trails of Cold Steel.

I have not been this sucked into a JRPG in a long time. Not since Persona 5 and TWEWY. That’s high praise from me.

Ayyy welcome aboard. I recommend you play the past games by release date after finishing Cold Steel 2 since 3 starts spoiling a lot of stuff from previous games. The Sky trilogy is already translated on PC and the Crossbell duology (Zero and Azure) have English translation patches online that can be applied for PC.


Alternatively you can follow this meme order

Spoiler

Disclaimer: Don't actually follow the meme order.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

ok so can anyone give me a tl;dr of the extra site slot investigation thus far? it became a bit much to follow in full the other day so an abridged version would be nice

Basically based on the way the New Zealand Australia website is, there’s a gap in the listing between CP11 and the Zelda Mii that comes with FP2, and they keep their stuff ordered. The Japanese website isn’t tho. American website and Europe I don’t think can be accessed the same way iirc.

Imo, it points to something being there in terms of announcements. It could be nothing obviously. It could be a character, who knows.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't know, I'm still not convinced on Miku.

Well yeah, cause in that case it would go:

"Oh, Miku actually originated from a video game?"

"No. Audio software."

"I see..."

 

[7NATOR]

Counterpoint: Foresight is an offensive tool. It's so busted that players will activate it on purpose to punish attacks, which is exactly how I've seen Shadow use it.

...Not that giving what's essentially another Sonic an ability like that would be a good idea by any stretch of the imagination. It would probably remove your ability to press buttons against him even from fullscreen.

I say Foresight is a counter based attack since it requires someone to Hit you in order to Activate. It can be activated on purpose to punish attacks, but it requires Actual attacks to be used to even be used as a Move

Which is something I don't see for Shadow. Shadow has used Chaos Control (Timestop) to kind of counter characters, He did it to Silver and to the Shadow Clone in Forces. With that being said though, I'd say he's more offensive with it than anything, Especially in the times he's had it in Gameplay since he can just do it. I Imagine Chaos Control would be something that can be done at anytime, but can be intercepted if you are fast enough.

It also works better from a Gameplay standpoint since Making Chaos Control a regular activated attack instead of a counter based one would reward Interaction against Shadow, meaning you don't get punished for trying to hit him, but rewarded, which is something Bat Within (and Witch time), and Foresight kind of discourage, since those activate if you try to Attack the characters. People like pressing buttons after all

I still think Shadow has a solid shot for CP10 or 11 as unique character. I laughed at the idea of Shadow as a unique character before, but after Sephiroth, I think it's actually pretty likely.

Not being alone in thinking this is really exciting to see.

Nah the issue is the mechanic, if Sakurai released a patch that removed Bat Within and Foresight, nobody would complain at all, ** that mechanic, standing still for 2 seconds because I did a move that's supposed to be safe when spaced is bull**

While I do think the mechanics are very powerful, I would be sad if they got removed.

These mechanics are very interesting, and I think with Bayonetta at least it's very balanced. I think Foresight should also stay as it is, but if it should be nerfed, Don't nerf Foresight indirectly, but Mythra's Regular dodges even further, so there's more risk to messing up Activating Foresight

 

[RGFS]

Yeah, I'm not too keen on slipping into the mindset of "But they could be lying!" When you go down that path, anything could be a lie for the sake of marketing and it pretty much devolves into either being left completely in the dark and unable to use anything as evidence or cherry-picking all the statements that support your argument. It's simpler and safer to just take everything at face value and assume they're telling the truth.

I would totally agree, but unlike the Grinch leak, this is a Nintendo screw-up leak. Those mean something more than some random post on the internet where it's easy to say someone faked it. Speculating any more content coming after what we've got is usually fruitless or worthless, but there is something to chew on now like the SNK copyright thing that was caught on the Nintendo UK website.

Sure, we have to consider what Sakurai has been saying but everything that has been said so far by him wouldn't necessarily be a lie. They could still have no real plans for anything after this DLC batch they're working on and still have some sort of bonus right at the end, it's not out of character and there's real evidence for it now. This helps let people know not to expect FP3 but it also still leaves the door open for any sort of bonus being dropped as a surprise before everything's over. If Sakurai said there wouldn't be any bonus content after Fighter Pass 2, I would be singing a different tune. There are only 2 Challenger Pack fighters remaining which he has a presentation for. That still opens the door for them to have been working on a little bonus to reveal at the end of the presentation for CP11. All this would be a crazy conspiracy usually but I'm just saying this since there's actually some evidence going for it.

There's likely no way this bonus thing is a Challenger Pack, and so, there's likely no way this is for a new series. There's the possibility it's just a Mii Costume but there's the possibility the website just screwed up when labeling things.

I honestly have no clue which one would be considered favorable to Occam's razor.
Some Nintendo websites revealed too much with their formatting and now we know there's a small bonus coming at the end.
or
Some Nintendo websites somehow accidentally created a new mysterious unavailable listing that actually means nothing at all.

I'm still mainly expecting just a bonus Mii Costume. Though if nothing happens after CP11, I'm perfectly content anyway. I'm more personally excited for the two upcoming Challenger Packs than the idea of a bonus but it's been pretty fun to speculate about.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I would totally agree, but unlike the Grinch leak, this is a Nintendo screw-up leak. Those mean something more than some random post on the internet where it's easy to say someone faked it. Speculating any more content coming after what we've got is usually fruitless or worthless, but there is something to chew on now like the SNK copyright thing that was caught on the Nintendo UK website.

Sure, we have to consider what Sakurai has been saying but everything that has been said so far by him wouldn't necessarily be a lie. They could still have no real plans for anything after this DLC batch they're working on and still have some sort of bonus right at the end, it's not out of character and there's real evidence for it now. This helps let people know not to expect FP3 but it also still leaves the door open for any sort of bonus being dropped as a surprise before everything's over. If Sakurai said there wouldn't be any bonus content after Fighter Pass 2, I would be singing a different tune. There are only 2 Challenger Pack fighters remaining which he has a presentation for. That still opens the door for them to have been working on a little bonus to reveal at the end of the presentation for CP11. All this would be a crazy conspiracy usually but I'm just saying this since there's actually some evidence going for it.

There's likely no way this bonus thing is a Challenger Pack, and so, there's likely no way this is for a new series. There's the possibility it's just a Mii Costume but there's the possibility the website just screwed up when labeling things.

I honestly have no clue which one would be considered favorable to Occam's razor.
Some Nintendo websites revealed too much with their formatting and now we know there's a small bonus coming at the end.
or
Some Nintendo websites somehow accidentally created a new mysterious unavailable listing that actually means nothing at all.

I'm still mainly expecting just a bonus Mii Costume. Though if nothing happens after CP11, I'm perfectly content anyway. I'm more personally excited for the two upcoming Challenger Packs than the idea of a bonus but it's been pretty fun to speculate about.

It's unique to New Zealand which as mentioned a while ago, is pretty bad as the NZ site also has the Wii U up on modern consoles, suggesting that the NZ site just has bad infrastructure

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Not being alone in thinking this is really exciting to see.

I still think Shadow has a solid shot for CP10 or 11 as unique character. I laughed at the idea of Shadow as a unique character before, but after Sephiroth, I think it's actually pretty likely.

THAT MAKES THREE OF US ALLEY CATS!

THREE OF US AGAINST THE WRATH OF THE REST OF SMASHBOARDS! LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[ahemtoday]

I've been thinking about Isaac in Smash, lately.

...Oh, not that Isaac. That one would be cool, too, but I'm thinking about the one from The Binding of Isaac, the Zelda-inspired twinstick shooter indie roguelike that just got its final expansion a few days ago.

Considering how runs in Isaac tend to go off because you get passive items that stack on top of each other - but as a roguelike, you lose them all if you die - I could definitely see potential for that turning into a moveset with an interesting gimmick.

...The real challenge is... the content. Look, people are gonna say what they will about Mortal Kombat or Doom, but I don't think the rating-raising stuff in those series is really that necessary. The stuff in Isaac tends to be... y'know, quite visceral. I'm not saying it's impossible to get a decent amount of content while scrubbing off the things that are a little less PG, but I honestly feel like it's the hardest series to do so with.

 

[SKX31]

Speak for yourself, I still think about how crazy it is they are in Smash like every day. That could be because I just got their Amiibo

To be fair to Froggy, he might've meant that B-K really didn't make much of a post-release impact on Smash beyond the casual fanbase. Then again, they're up against very stiff competition: is the most played DLC character by far (at least in 1v1s) in part because of a massive bandwagon effect, and 's RNG was extremely controversial when he released (and he still kinda is controversial within competitive circles). And later DLC like and have had people talking a lot post-release.

TBF are the third-most played in 1v1s, but there's not a lot of B-K mains. They're not only up against stiff competition, but also there's not been a whole lot of B-K players making waves. So a lot of competitive people are wary of how well they'll do in general. And casual players don't tend to talk a lot about characters that are already released because... they're just content they're there in the first place.

It could change. If someone manages to do well with them people will notice because of the already existing fanbase. I reccomend this post in the Competitive thread by DougEfresh if you're interested in an optimistic and in-depth look at 's standing currently.

I've been thinking about Isaac in Smash, lately.

...Oh, not that Isaac. That one would be cool, too, but I'm thinking about the one from The Binding of Isaac, the Zelda-inspired twinstick shooter indie roguelike that just got its final expansion a few days ago.

Considering how runs in Isaac tend to go off because you get passive items that stack on top of each other - but as a roguelike, you lose them all if you die - I could definitely see potential for that turning into a moveset with an interesting gimmick.

...The real challenge is... the content. Look, people are gonna say what they will about Mortal Kombat or Doom, but I don't think the rating-raising stuff in those series is really that necessary. The stuff in Isaac tends to be... y'know, quite visceral. I'm not saying it's impossible to get a decent amount of content while scrubbing off the things that are a little less PG, but I honestly feel like it's the hardest series to do so with.

As far as content is concerned - of course Smash would not have blood (considering 's Final Smash), but they could do quite a lot with just the sound effects, general tone and other aspects linked to them. They'd tone that down to acceptable levels (potential Spirits and stages would be cleaned up to some extent) but they can still replicate some level of fear and tension in a E-10 game with just tone and sound effects.

It would be tricky to do since Sakurai and co. would need to come up with compromises that work, but I don't think it's impossible with BoI, Doom or MK.

 

[chocolatejr9]

THAT MAKES THREE OF US ALLEY CATS!

View attachment 309935

THREE OF US AGAINST THE WRATH OF THE REST OF SMASHBOARDS! LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOO!

This reminded me that the Chaotix as a three-in-one fighter would actually be kinda cool. Don't know why...

 

[Idon]

I've been thinking about Isaac in Smash, lately.

...Oh, not that Isaac. That one would be cool, too, but I'm thinking about the one from The Binding of Isaac, the Zelda-inspired twinstick shooter indie roguelike that just got its final expansion a few days ago.

Considering how runs in Isaac tend to go off because you get passive items that stack on top of each other - but as a roguelike, you lose them all if you die - I could definitely see potential for that turning into a moveset with an interesting gimmick.

...The real challenge is... the content. Look, people are gonna say what they will about Mortal Kombat or Doom, but I don't think the rating-raising stuff in those series is really that necessary. The stuff in Isaac tends to be... y'know, quite visceral. I'm not saying it's impossible to get a decent amount of content while scrubbing off the things that are a little less PG, but I honestly feel like it's the hardest series to do so with.

Well Blade Strangers did a pretty alright moveset of him. Just y'know, don't include Mother's giant grotesque foot stomping on the enemy and it wouldn't be all that out of place.

 

[Technomage]

Isn't that just... Lyn?

Yeah, but at least with the versions I listed, there's no way anybody could get mixed up with 8 Fighter Lyns in battle alongside an AT Lyn. That at least eliminates that issue, assuming Sakurai doesn't bother having specific ATs turned off depending on who the fighters are. :D

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, but at least with the versions I listed, there's no way anybody could get mixed up with 8 Fighter Lyns in battle alongside an AT Lyn. That at least eliminates that issue, assuming Sakurai doesn't bother having specific ATs turned off depending on who the fighters are. :D

Doesn't Warriors Lyn have the same design? Sakurai tends to go for the most iconic looks, so a fan favourite like Lyn wouldn't go for a drastically different design, it'd be far easier to just code the game to not spawn Lyn from an AT if she's in the game

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

This reminded me that the Chaotix as a three-in-one fighter would actually be kinda cool. Don't know why...

If they could get it to work I'd be all for it! Though unless it's a transforming character, I don't know if they could get it to work. They couldn't do "Rex WITH Pyra and Mythra" but they COULD do "Pyra transforms INTO Mythra"

 

[Technomage]

Doesn't Warriors Lyn have the same design? Sakurai tends to go for the most iconic looks, so a fan favourite like Lyn wouldn't go for a drastically different design, it'd be far easier to just code the game to not spawn Lyn from an AT if she's in the game

Hmmm, after checking her pic again, I can see where you got that idea. Okay, Imma go and change that to just Awakening Lyn.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hmmm, after checking her pic again, I can see where you got that idea. Okay, Imma go and change that to just Awakening Lyn.

I feel you kind of missed the point, there's already coding to prevent certain Pokeballs and ATs from spawning on specific stages, either to prevent confusion, potential tech limitations and funny jokes, there's no reason Lyn wouldn't hypothetically have the same workaround applied

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I say Foresight is a counter based attack since it requires someone to Hit you in order to Activate. It can be activated on purpose to punish attacks, but it requires Actual attacks to be used to even be used as a Move

Which is something I don't see for Shadow. Shadow has used Chaos Control (Timestop) to kind of counter characters, He did it to Silver and to the Shadow Clone in Forces. With that being said though, I'd say he's more offensive with it than anything, Especially in the times he's had it in Gameplay since he can just do it. I Imagine Chaos Control would be something that can be done at anytime, but can be intercepted if you are fast enough.

It also works better from a Gameplay standpoint since Making Chaos Control a regular activated attack instead of a counter based one would reward Interaction against Shadow, meaning you don't get punished for trying to hit him, but rewarded, which is something Bat Within (and Witch time), and Foresight kind of discourage, since those activate if you try to Attack the characters. People like pressing buttons after all

It is a counter, but counter moves aren't inherently defensive maneuvers. They can be used as highly committal defensive options, but they can also be used to maintain pressure (countering a wakeup button), to start your offense from neutral (starting an interaction with a counter because the AI is dumb), as a checkmate (countering an Up Special), etc. Foresight leans more toward offense than defense since it does stupid stuff like allow you to punish projectiles from mid-long range, and when used purely defensively, doesn't really do much.

A non-counter implementation of Chaos Control would likely either just a teleport, or a completely useless time stop move in the same vein as Sing and Disable (maybe they'd give it some utility, but I wouldn't hold my breath). Straight up stopping or slowing down time for everyone would be too powerful. I kinda hope I'm wrong and they do something more creative/useful though. It would suck if Shadow was just Sonic, but objectively worse (EDIT: Even if just slightly. I dunno how much of in impact losing the spring or Spin Charge would have. And of course this is assuming Echo Fighter. If he's not one then he'd have tools to compensate.).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It is a counter, but counter moves aren't inherently defensive maneuvers. They can be used as highly committal defensive options, but they can also be used to maintain pressure (countering a wakeup button), to start your offense from neutral (starting an interaction with a counter because the AI is dumb), as a checkmate (countering an Up Special), etc. Foresight leans more toward offense than defense since it does stupid stuff like allow you to punish projectiles from mid-long range, and when used purely defensively, doesn't really do much.

A non-counter implementation of Chaos Control would likely either just a teleport, or a completely useless time stop move in the same vein as Sing and Disable (maybe they'd give it some utility, but I wouldn't hold my breath). Straight up stopping or slowing down time for everyone would be too powerful. I kinda hope I'm wrong and they do something more creative/useful though. It would suck if Shadow was just Sonic, but objectively worse.

Wait, do counters even work properly as oki? You know, with getup attacks being invincible in Ultimate?

Sidenote, the idea of a time stop move's been in my head for a while, I see Alucard with the stopwatch, it'd have a load of startup, but using that move would then make a 'bubble' that slows doen everything in it except Alucard, like the Swirlix pokeball effect. It'd gradually shrink overtime and maybe it'd even have cooldown between uses to further balance it, sounds like a damn fun way to pressure your opponent on the ledge

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Wait, do counters even work properly as oki? You know, with getup attacks being invincible in Ultimate?

Bold of you to assume anyone actually getup attacks. lol

More seriously though I was more thinking of countering something like wakeup Shoryuken...which is also invincible...yeah that might not actually be a thing, at least in fighting games. Probably be for the best as well.

Sidenote, the idea of a time stop move's been in my head for a while, I see Alucard with the stopwatch, it'd have a load of startup, but using that move would then make a 'bubble' that slows doen everything in it except Alucard, like the Swirlix pokeball effect. It'd gradually shrink overtime and maybe it'd even have cooldown between uses to further balance it, sounds like a damn fun way to pressure your opponent on the ledge

That sounds equal parts interesting and infuriating. I would be interested in seeing an ability like that. R.I.P. characters that rely on projectiles with a 1 projectile limit though, and also Min Min (probably), but not R.O.B. because lingering is what makes Gyro dangerous.

I was thinking Shadow could have Chaos Control be a burst style move, but then I realized that this would be able to 2-frame, and that's probably not OK.