Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Guybrush20X6]

In terms of this missing ID number possibly hinting at an extra character, the pessimist in me thinks it's purely a placeholder they was included just in case.

On the other hand, I don't think it's impossible and remember, in marketing, straight up lying for the sake of "surprise" is not only possible but common place and for some reason seems to be allowed.

I mean, it shouldn't, as if you have to tell lies to make something surprising then you are bad at making surprises cough Kojima cough but it's something to consider.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I agree, some people just seem to think Nintendo, a company who got in touch with porn stars to promote an upcoming Nintendo exclusive known as Bayonetta 2, would be squeamish little ****s

Feel like they treated Nintendo as if they were in their 90s/80s where they would go apeship about religious thing and huge revealing badonkers just to please an audience that never even touched video game in the first place, but nooooo "if you type in Fate in Google it says it's an eroge and that is a sin!" They say as Nintendo published the next volume of Nekopara on Switch.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In terms of this missing ID number possibly hinting at an extra character, the pessimist in me thinks it's purely a placeholder they was included just in case.

On the other hand, I don't think it's impossible and remember, in marketing, straight up lying for the sake of "surprise" is not only possible but common place and for some reason seems to be allowed.

I mean, it shouldn't, as if you have to tell lies to make something surprising then you are bad at making surprises cough Kojima cough but it's something to consider.

At the same time this mentality was used as evidence why Grinch was real, why else would Sakurai say "We've probably shown off yoo much so please lower your expectations", because only Ken and Incineroar were all that's left?

 

[SharkLord]

I would argue that being compared to Pokemon is a point in Digimon's favor TBH. It had the same kind of rivalry deal that Crash did with Mario, except arguably less contrived. A lot of people would be real hyped to finally see Digimon vs Pokemon finally be a thing.

And Mario vs Sonic, if we want an example of it actually working out. Association and comparisons with a bigger series can make some of that popularity rub off on you.

At the same time this mentality was used as evidence why Grinch was real, why else would Sakurai say "We've probably shown off yoo much so please lower your expectations", because only Ken and Incineroar were all that's left?

Yeah, I'm not too keen on slipping into the mindset of "But they could be lying!" When you go down that path, anything could be a lie for the sake of marketing and it pretty much devolves into either being left completely in the dark and unable to use anything as evidence or cherry-picking all the statements that support your argument. It's simpler and safer to just take everything at face value and assume they're telling the truth.

 

[RoboFist]

If this is a Bonus Fighter, it’s definitely First Party so Hype Responsibly please. I want to minimize the salt as much as possible here.

It's not "definitely" anything, but I do agree that it's a smart idea to assume a bonus Fighter would be first-party. Not only that, but considering the only "bonus" we've gotten so far has been Piranha Plant, I think it's safe to assume that our hypothetical 12th DLC would be on a similar level.

Not saying "Oh it has to be a mook", but a very standard character from an established franchise. Someone who wouldn't exactly warrant a $6 price tag, at least to the wider world of Smash fans. Someone who, like the Plant, would feel more like a "Hey, we made you this as a thank you for sticking with Ultimate" gift than a Twitter-breaking crowd-pleaser.

So this is how Bandana Dee, Impa, King Boo, or even (ugh) Waluigi could still win.

Or, like many have said, it could be absolutely nothing and we're all setting ourselves up for crippling disappointment and truckloads of salt. But that's kind of our MO here, isn't it?

 

[PeridotGX]

Guest #14 is awfully quiet right now. Almost too quiet, if you ask me.

What do you know, Chris?

 

[MooMew64]

Guest #14 is awfully quiet right now. Almost too quiet, if you ask me.

What do you know, Chris?

Spill the beans, Chris.

When's Gooigi coming?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Guest #14 is awfully quiet right now. Almost too quiet, if you ask me.

He keeps whining about how my roller coasters are too intense. Not my fault if you can't handle the Pukemeister.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Guest #14 is awfully quiet right now. Almost too quiet, if you ask me.

What do you know, Chris?

I don't get it...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On Shadow, I don't think Chaos Control would work like Bat Within or Foresight. Those mechanics are more Defensive/Counter based.

Counterpoint: Foresight is an offensive tool. It's so busted that players will activate it on purpose to punish attacks, which is exactly how I've seen Shadow use it.

...Not that giving what's essentially another Sonic an ability like that would be a good idea by any stretch of the imagination. It would probably remove your ability to press buttons against him even from fullscreen.

 

[PeridotGX]

I don't get it...

the only important thing is that Chris realizes that we're on to him, we know he knows what's going on with the New Zealand site.

 

[Lyncario]

About the possible extra character trough url theory, I remember reading not too long ago that something similar hapened near the end of Sm4sh's dlc cycle, with an added slot of the css being, with it being Corrin. So if url theory does end up being about a fighter, it's probably in a vain similar to Corrin, meaning it would most likely be a promotional 1st party from a 2022 game. Current candidates for this are: Someone from BotW2, someone from Prime 4, Legends:Arceus, and Splatoon 3. Out of those, I'd say that Splatoon 3 would be the most likely, since we already have Link and Samus, and well I don't think that Legends:Arceus will be getting that promotion. And including potential games we don't know about, an FE4 remake has been in rumors for quite some time, so watch the dlc end with a new FE lord becoming playable again, .

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Counterpoint: Foresight is an offensive tool. It's so busted that players will activate it on purpose to punish attacks, which is exactly how I've seen Shadow use it.

...Not that giving what's essentially another Sonic an ability like that would be a good idea by any stretch of the imagination. It would probably remove your ability to press buttons against him even from fullscreen.

Nah the issue is the mechanic, if Sakurai released a patch that removed Bat Within and Foresight, nobody would complain at all, **** that mechanic, standing still for 2 seconds because I did a move that's supposed to be safe when spaced is bull****

 

[UberPyro64]

This is my prediction (assuming there is, in fact, a bonus and it's a Fighter).

Crash Bandicoot and Chosen Undead could be swapped. The order there isn't important. But they make the most sense to me being the final two of Fighters Pass Vol. 2. The bonus Fighter, if there is one, I figure could be any of those four.
Waluigi is probably the most likely as he wouldn't need a stage or a selection of music (though, he could still come with a single remix like a deluxe Mii Costume would).
With Capcom supposedly not liking being part of passes (having to split the income) or being too late for Vol. 2 would make sense. And Dante would be the perfect character to fit the bill. Him making a joke about almost missing the boat or Sakurai forgetting about him.
Master Chief would also make sense, with him finishing the fight in Smash. Plus, we already have Steve as a Fighter in Vol. 2, so the Microsoft slot is already taken.
Geno is probably the least likely, but the Mii Costume being a fake-out and with us continuing to get Square Enix content, it could make sense. And like Waluigi, he wouldn't have to come with anything (but again, a single music track would make sense).
In order, I'd say Waluigi > Master Chief > Dante > Geno in terms of likelihood. Again, if there even if a bonus Fighter.

 

[Louie G.]

In order, I'd say Waluigi > Master Chief > Dante > Geno in terms of likelihood. Again, if there even if a bonus Fighter.

I don’t wanna sound too dismissive of your speculation, but I think it’s very unlikely that we’d see a hypothetical “bonus” be anything other than a first party character.

No matter how cooperative a company is, I’d imagine all of them appreciate the profit from their character’s inclusion in Smash. Assuming this bonus character is a secret part of FP2, many people would probably be getting them for free. I feel like another Nintendo character is really the only scenario where that would be reasonable.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

About the possible extra character trough url theory, I remember reading not too long ago that something similar hapened near the end of Sm4sh's dlc cycle, with an added slot of the css being, with it being Corrin. So if url theory does end up being about a fighter, it's probably in a vain similar to Corrin, meaning it would most likely be a promotional 1st party from a 2022 game. Current candidates for this are: Someone from BotW2, someone from Prime 4, Legends:Arceus, and Splatoon 3. Out of those, I'd say that Splatoon 3 would be the most likely, since we already have Link and Samus, and well I don't think that Legends:Arceus will be getting that promotion. And including potential games we don't know about, an FE4 remake has been in rumors for quite some time, so watch the dlc end with a new FE lord becoming playable again, .

you know what ELSE has been in rumors for some time...

Xenoblade X Definitive Edition...

shut up and let me dream

 

[SharkLord]

I don’t wanna sound too dismissive of your speculation, but I think it’s very unlikely that we’d see a hypothetical “bonus” be anything other than a first party character.

No matter how cooperative a company is, I’d imagine all of them appreciate the profit from their character’s inclusion in Smash. Assuming this bonus character is a secret part of FP2, many people would probably be getting them for free. I feel like another Nintendo character is really the only scenario where that would be reasonable.

Yeah, if-If-We get a bonus fighter, it would probably be a first-party to avoid having to negotiate for the rights. It's a bonus, so I'd imagine Nintendo wouldn't want to put too much work into them. Probably just a fighter and that's it, like Piranha Plant. And then there's the theory of them being added because FP2 was ahead of schedule, which would practically need it to be first-party because the negotiation process would probably take too long to shove in at the last second, unless it's an indie or something. And even then, I'm still kinda hesitant about a bonus in general because Sakurai flat-out said "There are two DLC fighters left!" in Pyra's overview video.

 

[UberPyro64]

I don’t wanna sound too dismissive of your speculation, but I think it’s very unlikely that we’d see a hypothetical “bonus” be anything other than a first-party character.

No matter how cooperative a company is, I’d imagine all of them appreciate the profit from their character’s inclusion in Smash. Assuming this bonus character is a secret part of FP2, many people would probably be getting them for free. I feel like another Nintendo character is really the only scenario where that would be reasonable.

This is why I think Waluigi is the most likely outcome. That being said, Piranha Plant was listed with Vol. 1. And obviously, it's not a part of that. This is why I think Dante and Master Chief have a chance.

 

[PeridotGX]

I could also see a bonus fighter being an indie. They're cheap and the rights are all in one place.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nah the issue is the mechanic, if Sakurai released a patch that removed Bat Within and Foresight, nobody would complain at all, ** that mechanic, standing still for 2 seconds because I did a move that's supposed to be safe when spaced is bull**

I don't think I've seen Bat Within be used to punish anything (though it might could, I dunno), but there's definitely a reason why I said Foresight is busted.

Now imagine that on the fastest character in the game who's gameplan is already to stand in place until someone whiffs something anywhere near you. I'm pretty sure the ability goes from "that's overtuned" to "how on Earth was this given the OK?".

 

[SharkLord]

I could also see a bonus fighter being an indie. They're cheap and the rights are all in one place.

I think that would depend on how expansive their content would be. If it's a full-on pack that's just placed separately from the Fighter's Passes, sure. But if it's just the fighter, a la ? Probably not. Every new game series introduced to the roster in Ultimate has gotten a stage, some songs, and a collection of Spirits to go with them, from Splatoon to Fatal Fury. An indie fighter would be a new series, as we don't have any full indies on the roster yet, and it would warrant an entire pack. As such, I think we can rule them out for a PP-style solo fighter.

 

[SNEKeater]

Dante and Master Chief as bonus fighters doesn't make sense at all to me.

And I'd be kinda disappointed. I'd happy to have one of those two, but them getting into Smash but without a DMC or Halo stage, and no music, would be just sad. And weird. Unless there was copyright problems of some kind and Nintendo wasn't able to get a stage/music but still decided to go with one of these characters. But that doesn't sound like a likely scenario.

If we're getting a bonus character and it's not an echo I'm almost fully convinced it would be Waluigi.

 

[UberPyro64]

Dante and Master Chief as bonus fighters doesn't make sense at all to me.

And I'd be kinda disappointed. I'd happy to have one of those two, but them getting into Smash but without a DMC or Halo stage, and no music, would be just sad. And weird. Unless there was copyright problems of some kind and Nintendo wasn't able to get a stage/music but still decided to go with one of these characters. But that doesn't sound like a likely scenario.

If we're getting a bonus character and it's not an echo I'm almost fully convinced it would be Waluigi.

The assumption with Dante or Master Chief would be they still come with a Stage and selection of music. Unlike Waluigi or Geno, which wouldn't necessarily have to.

 

[Louie G.]

The assumption with Dante or Master Chief would be they still come with a Stage and selection of music. Unlike Waluigi or Geno, which wouldn't necessarily have to.

The only complication is that, since the number lies right between Fighter 11 and the Ancient Armor costume, the implication is that they would be available as part of the FP2 bundle.

This is already under the impression that they'd be generous enough to give us another character (presumably) for free as thanks for buying the pass, but it doesn't seem likely that they're generous enough to give us an entire pass' worth of content for free... both on Nintendo's end, who would have needed to spend a lot of money to get that content, and the other company's end who would need to find some profit in the business deal.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Happy Egg Day!

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[SMAASH! Puppy]

Considering precedent, any character from a new series would probably come with a stage, and some music, especially if it's 3rd party. Personally, I'd say it's more likely that a hypothetical bonus fighter would be from an existing series than a new series without a stage or music.

 

[Karen6969]

If we do get a bonus fighter I’d be very surprised if it was someone other than Waluigi. I could also see bandana waddle dee or toad.
I like the idea of maybe Dixie or Funky kong with some tropical freeze music or a Pokémon with some Sword/Shield music, but since we don’t even know if bonus fighters can include music I think the first 3 characters I named, specifically Waluigi, are way more likely.

 

[MooMew64]

Real talk, this bonus fighter situation is interesting. It could potentially lead to one extra bonus, but I'm hesitant to say for sure if I think that's likely because every Nintendo fandom thinks their game is gonna get that "One more thing" announcement and then 9 times out of 10, it never happens. The inconsistency with how the different regional websites order things also leads me to believe this could very well just be a goof on whoever runs the Australian website and is basically just a meaningless string.

If It's a bonus fighter...I honest to goodness think it's gonna be a first party: I don't see them going through the trouble to work with a 3rd party company just to secure them for the fighter and nothing else and outside of a pass, especially not some of the big names I'm seeing thrown around.

Time will obviously tell on this one, but I'm very doubtful about any huge endgame bonus: My guess is that we're gonna receive potentially some Echoes as a last minute thank you for all the support, perhaps a last minute PreMiium, or potentially even a stage. Again, if this amounts to anything and isn't just Jane's Ponytail 2.0.

Basically, this is how Poke Floats comes back.

 

[SKX31]

I don't think I've seen Bat Within be used to punish anything (though it might could, I dunno), but there's definitely a reason why I said Foresight is busted.

Now imagine that on the fastest character in the game who's gameplan is already to stand in place until someone whiffs something anywhere near you. I'm pretty sure the ability goes from "that's overtuned" to "how on Earth was this given the OK?".

To go more in depth:

Bat Within can punish quite a decent chunk of attacks - depending on the victim's damage and how often it's used (higher damage = more slowdown, but the increase is small. Frequent use = less slowdown). The minimum is 30 frames of slowdown, the base's at 90, and the max is 240 (at 600 %, so normally you have the base 1 1/2 sec).

It's just that Bayo has ca. 40 frames of lag - 2/3 of a second - before she can act out of a successful Witch Time (contrast , who had 15 frames of lag, or less than 1/3), so the Bayo player will have to be kinda quick on the draw and set up either a Smash attack or kill confirm.

Foresight is helped by Mythra being able to act instantly after - GimR compared Witch Time and Foresight in the linked video (dunno if this is an oversight or if it's intentional) and by Mythra's native speed. Sure, Foresight only slows down for 36 frames... but that doesn't matter as much when Mythra can Foresight ****ing 's Dragon Laser from max range, close in and hit her with a Dash Attack or D-Tilt before Foresight is over or before the Dragon ARM has returned. Seriously I'm not kidding. While I didn't record this, it's fully reproducable by just going into Training mode and having Min Min set to Forward Smash. Spotdodge those and you're off to the races.

Yes, Foresight is dumb in its current implementation. And yes, such a move would be dumb on a Sonic character, who is going to be presumably faster than Mythra (5th fastest run speed).

If we do get a bonus fighter I’d be very surprised if it was someone other than Waluigi. I could also see bandana waddle dee or toad.
I like the idea of maybe Dixie or Funky kong with some tropical freeze music or a Pokémon with some Sword/Shield music, but since we don’t even know if bonus fighters can include music I think the first 3 characters I named, specifically Waluigi, are way more likely.

I could also see an additional Zelda character or even a semi-echo (Octolings could be a decent semi-echo) if they indeed went with the bonus, because they wouldn't have to come with much and could be a nice surprise.

 

[UberPyro64]

The only complication is that, since the number lies right between Fighter 11 and the Ancient Armor costume, the implication is that they would be available as part of the FP2 bundle.

This is already under the impression that they'd be generous enough to give us another character (presumably) for free as thanks for buying the pass, but it doesn't seem likely that they're generous enough to give us an entire pass' worth of content for free... both on Nintendo's end, who would have needed to spend a lot of money to get that content and the other company's end who would need to find some profit in the business deal.

As I said earlier, Piranha Plant was listed as part of Fighters Pass Vol. 1. Mind you, it was at the start, not in the middle. So, perhaps the bonus Fighter is simply listed as part of Vol. 2 even though it's not. Of course, it probably is. This is why I consider Waluigi the most likely outcome for this.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I could also see an additional Zelda character or even a semi-echo (Octolings could be a decent semi-echo) if they indeed went with the bonus, because they wouldn't have to come with much and could be a nice surprise since we're talking a bonus in the first place.

I saw the word Zelda and then Octo- and my brain autocorrected to octorok.

This is our bonus fighter.

 

[Wigglerman]

I saw the word Zelda and then Octo- and my brain autocorrected to octorok.
View attachment 309913
This is our bonus fighter.

New main, here I come.

 

[Ben Holt]

Easter? I thought you said...

 

[SharkLord]

I saw the word Zelda and then Octo- and my brain autocorrected to octorok.
View attachment 309913
This is our bonus fighter.

Now for the obligatory

 

[SNEKeater]

The reason I'm leaning towards Waluigi if we actually get an unique fighter as a bonus is that, even if you like him or not, I don't see a more 'fitting' character to finish Ultimate with a bonus/surprise character.

Yeah I know Nintendo doesn't care about ending things with a high note but considering this would be a surprise bonus character, seemingly just one, I have a hard time thinking in other options beyond Waluigi. They're aware of his popularity, even if that whole drama about him during 2018 was exaggerated. It was still very noticeable and I'd surprised if he's not added in the next game.

I personally don't care about him but the bonus fighter being first party is a safe assumption, and from there I think there are very few likely options for the role of bonus character. Waluigi wouldn't need a stage or music, he's popular and very well known, him getting in as a surprise as the final character would generate a lot of coverage and talk after the whole drama about the character which would be a funny way to close Ultimate's cycle, and Nintendo wouldn't need to pay licenses to anyone considering that they fully own the character.

 

[Sigran101]

This extra slot thing is pretty interesting, probably one of the more interesting pieces of Speculation this cycle, but I think this would only last a Week at most in terms of Active speculation before it's not the hot topic anymore. Personally nothing would ever beat Base game Speculation in terms of Ultimate Speculation

On Shadow, I don't think Chaos Control would work like Bat Within or Foresight. Those mechanics are more Defensive/Counter based. Shadow usually uses Chaos Control in an Agressive manner

Anyways, you're right in that they probably wouldn't do this for Shadow, since I don't imagine they make him an Echo, even if he theoratically could work. It's his own character or he's not in from my analyasis




I would just say I'd much prefer if Shadow stayed an Assist, or was even a Mii Costume, over him being an Echo. Of course I still think he's gonna be in FP2

I still think Shadow has a solid shot for CP10 or 11 as unique character. I laughed at the idea of Shadow as a unique character before, but after Sephiroth, I think it's actually pretty likely.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

tbh i think if we WERE to get an assist trophy promotion it would be limited to waluigi or isaac as they've had the largest outcries. nobody else

(rip the yuri kozukata dream... but then again her being an AT is good enough given the nature of Fatal Frame)

 

[Speed Weed]

tbh i think if we WERE to get an assist trophy promotion it would be limited to waluigi or isaac as they've had the largest outcries. nobody else

(rip the yuri kozukata dream... but then again her being an AT is good enough given the nature of Fatal Frame)

you say this but just wait until sukapon gets in and takes the official title of smash's canonically funniest character

go mecha seinfeld go

 

[SharkLord]

tbh i think if we WERE to get an assist trophy promotion it would be limited to waluigi or isaac as they've had the largest outcries. nobody else

(rip the yuri kozukata dream... but then again her being an AT is good enough given the nature of Fatal Frame)

I heavily disagree with the "If we get (X), it MUST be (Y)" mindset. That kind of hyperfocus is what leads to all the curveballs and blindsides. I highly doubt there were many people saying our first Spirit promotions would be an ARMS rep.

Nintendo doesn't care about ordering ATs by importance or priority or outcry or whatever. They look at the pros and cons of them individually, and add them as characters, not as Assist promotions. Saying an AT promotion would be only a couple certain characters is just incredibly short-sighted.

 

[ahemtoday]

you say this but just wait until sukapon gets in and takes the official title of smash's canonically funniest character

go mecha seinfeld go

Mecha Seinfeld conjures up a very, very different image than Sukapon.