DK Advancement of Metagame thread |Updated Random ideas 10/28/10!!!

[DKwill]

Soooo I figured that since I never, ever post in the DK boards and I've been a DK main since brawl came out, now is as good a time as any to start. xD

Not sure if anyone has heard of me much but I am starting to travel around to more tournaments to rep DK, and I have just recently posted my most current rankings.

There were a few things that I had noticed that I wanted to mention to the rest of the DK world =)

In the DK vs Wario matchup (I don't know if this was known already), I may have found a way of indefinitely gimping wario. Assuming that he has already used his second jump, when Wario uses his bike to get his additional jump DK can use his up-b to knock Wario away. If you can manage to hit Wario while he is still on the bike, this forces him into using his up-b which we all know, is easily edge hogged ;p

Also, another thing I noticed was that while edge guarding with the up-b, when I spaced the up-b so that DK's feet hit my opponent while they were at a high percent, they would be sent out very far and horizontally. Perhaps this is the normal knockback of the up-b and they were just at a high enough percent to die from it. I'm not entirely sure and I will test it some more, but any discussion/validation of this would be cool.

I'll try to keep it a habit to post more often, as I will be travelling all over this summer to play brawl, aka SNES =)

 

[jpl315]

yea thats a lot of pummels...

 

[Ragnar0k]

There's no way that's right SuSa. I was playing today and getting way less than that before they broke out.

 

[Jmex]

The higher the enemies %, the more pummels you can get off.

If you want to refresh your moves pummel slower, with a slight pause in between pummels.

If you want to deal damage, just mash A lol.

 

[Big O]

If you want to deal as much damage as possible it would be better to press A in a certain rhythm than just mashing A. If you get the timing down it is faster than mashing A since mashing is more or less random. I think the easiest way to tell when to press A again is to look at DK's hand. When he raises his hand to the max height (ready to smack 'em senseless) just press A.

 

[Luigi player]

If you want to deal as much damage as possible it would be better to press A in a certain rhythm than just mashing A. If you get the timing down it is faster than mashing A since mashing is more or less random. I think the easiest way to tell when to press A again is to look at DK's hand. When he raises his hand to the max height (ready to smack 'em senseless) just press A.

A pummel rhythm. I knew there's one for Ness but I didn't know there is one for DK too. Good to know...

 

[Jmex]

If you want to deal as much damage as possible it would be better to press A in a certain rhythm than just mashing A. If you get the timing down it is faster than mashing A since mashing is more or less random. I think the easiest way to tell when to press A again is to look at DK's hand. When he raises his hand to the max height (ready to smack 'em senseless) just press A.

I think the reason mashing A dosent work as well is because of the buffering system.

 

[Sudai]

Ignore this, sorry.

 

[Big O]

I think the reason mashing A dosent work as well is because of the buffering system.

Well the only reason mashing A isn't superior is because you can't buffer pummels. If it did mashing A would make you pummel ASAP and with DK that would be exactly 3 times per second. Unless you mash A like 30 times per second, chances are you will have better luck timing your button pressing for maximum damage. It would also be a good idea to time your Bthrow or Cargo hold to the same rhythm after mashing to give them less time to break out before you throw them. Since you can't buffer either of them if you do them too early nothing will happen which makes DK a sad panda. You can buffer Dthrow and Uthrow though.

Just to give an example of how much the timing helps you can smack someone 5 times at 0% if you are pro (with them not struggling of course). You could also hit them 4 times and then throw them. Both require really good timing but hitting them 4 times and with a throw is easier to do.

 

[daisho]

Cargo Release Mindgames

I just started doing this. It works. Just do cargo releases and then if they shield then grab them. If they spotdodge Up B. If they do nothing jab.

The trick comes in is predicting their behavior. If you expect a nothing then you can get a D smash. If you add in pummels this does decent damage and can get you kills. Also if they have to think what to do they may not break out as fast leading to cargo stage spikes.

I don't know anything about framing but someone should probably test that out.

Of course, if they roll away this fails.

 

[Monkley6]

A pummel rhythm. I knew there's one for Ness but I didn't know there is one for DK too. Good to know...

Pretty sure there's a "rhythm" for everyone. Really it's just hitting A (or I use Z, actually) to pummel as soon as you can and it still input the pummel? At least that's what I think.
Anyone know who's pummels it the "fastest"? Lucarios seems **** fast to me. *shrug*

 

[Jmex]

I just started doing this. It works. Just do cargo releases and then if they shield then grab them. If they spotdodge Up B. If they do nothing jab.

The trick comes in is predicting their behavior. If you expect a nothing then you can get a D smash. If you add in pummels this does decent damage and can get you kills. Also if they have to think what to do they may not break out as fast leading to cargo stage spikes.

I don't know anything about framing but someone should probably test that out.

Of course, if they roll away this fails.

Sounds interesting. I would probably just up b at lower percentages regardless of what they do. Higher percentages i would down smash or regrab.

 

[daisho]

Sounds interesting. I would probably just up b at lower percentages regardless of what they do. Higher percentages i would down smash or regrab.

Well usually I jab the first time. Then they know to shield so I do a grab. Then they know to spotdodge so I do an Up B.

Problem with doing up B is most characters can do things faster than 10 frames (when SA starts) so they can punish you for it or even grab you.

Of course, I did this to a peach and after like 3 tries she showed off her frame 2 jab

 

[Ruuku]

I just started doing this. It works. Just do cargo releases and then if they shield then grab them. If they spotdodge Up B. If they do nothing jab.

The trick comes in is predicting their behavior. If you expect a nothing then you can get a D smash. If you add in pummels this does decent damage and can get you kills. Also if they have to think what to do they may not break out as fast leading to cargo stage spikes.

I don't know anything about framing but someone should probably test that out.

Of course, if they roll away this fails.

Can you try to down B if they roll away?

 

[Luigi player]

Pretty sure there's a "rhythm" for everyone. Really it's just hitting A (or I use Z, actually) to pummel as soon as you can and it still input the pummel? At least that's what I think.
Anyone know who's pummels it the "fastest"? Lucarios seems **** fast to me. *shrug*

Well you can't just mash A/Z. If you do that then it won't be the fastest. Maybe there is one for every character, Idk.

Ness is a good example I think... If you just mash A then the pummels will be rather slow, if you wait a bit and press at the right time then it will be pretty fast.

 

[crifer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6V4HDXpFIo

worthless for DK´s sideB,
because of upB braking?

 

[Luigi player]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6V4HDXpFIo

worthless for DK´s sideB,
because of upB braking?

Does it really help? I'm not sure but to me it seems that the DJ cancels the momentum better and with a reversed B you still move a bit more to the direction you got hit to...

If it would be better/the same as the double jump then it would be useful, because you don't lose you DJ and live longer.

UpB brake is nice, but on most stages you can't land safely and still get KOd (or knocked off again so you have to use it again, this happened to me a few times. I got hit 3-4 times and always used upB brake, but finally I got punished with a strong enough attack so I got KOd).

If the reversed side B would be the same as the upB brake it would be much better, but it's still risky. If you mess up you're done for.

 

[Ragnar0k]

if b reverse side b actually stops momentum then it would be better than up b breaking because you're not helpless. I'll have to try this out.

 

[Big O]

Up b braking cancels more momentum than B-reversaled side b. B-reversaled side b cancels horizontal momentum, but like double jumping it gets you killed earlier vertically. If you are close to the blastzone double jumping is better since it cancels earlier and in the slight time it takes to turn around you accelerate during the side b. From the around the middle of FD, B-reversaled side b helps you live a little longer. If you mess up you die a lot earlier than normal though.

Basically never do it close to the ledge unless you get hit the other way. It isn't as good as up b braking so most of the time you will still need to up b to live.

 

[Ragnar0k]

If someone is below below the platform I'm on, would ledge cancelling a dair on the corner of the platform combo into anything? I would imagine it would pop them up and we could at least get a double jump aerial but what about a reverse giant punch.

 

[Big O]

Do you mean sliding off the edge during the Dair's landing lag? If you can actually do that I can see it comboing into a DJ Bair. Punch would probably be too slow since they can air dodge pretty quickly.

 

[daisho]

I used to think up b cancelling was amazing but actually its near useless. If you do it right then you won't live on most stages. When you do it correctly the up b gives you no horizontal movement. You only get the DI after it. If you did get horizontal then you put yourself in a helpless state for no reason because you would have survived. Sometimes you can get to the edge but if your not high enough you usually can't. Even if you do they can edgehog you. Of course, japes YI smashville can all save you.

 

[Ragnar0k]

yeah Big O that's what I mean. I wouldn't be surprised if punch could work honestly. I've dair'd people on the ground and popped them up and and gotten a free uair before, after the landing lag of dair, dair has actual hitstun.

 

[Big O]

I just tried it and I can't seem to get this to work. Whenever I try to slide of the platform it stops right at the edge. I know you do slide a bit when you land but it always stops short. Is there something I'm missing here?

 

[Ragnar0k]

I'm not sure if you you're supposed to fast fall or night, try that.

 

[Big O]

Have you done it before or have you seen it in a vid? Which levels did it work on?

 

[Ragnar0k]

I've never ledge canceled a dair on purpose before but I've done it with other aerials. I just thought it would be a way to combo off of dairs hitstun.

 

[Big O]

I tried both fast falling and regular Dairs on Battlefield and so far I haven't had any luck getting it to work. Lol if only DK's Dair AC'ed like Ganon's.

 

[Ragnar0k]

That would be amazing. I'll try to ledge cancel some dairs later. I'm going to bed soon though.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

you all need to tilt more, so I made lists

ftilt - a lot of dks hate this move because it's easy to punish against good characters

however, not all characters punish well, so ftilt it safe to use

characters that cannot punish a well spaced ftilt (basically spam the hell out of ftilt against them, except fox/kirby)
Captain falcon
fox facing you
ganon
ike
jiggs
kirby facing you
link
lucario
lucas
mario
peach w/o turnips
pit
squirtle
ivysaur
sheik w/o needle charge (one needle may hit if they do it really quick, but oh well 2%)
toon link
yoshi*

with the exception of yoshi, you need to space the tilts well to avoid punishment, yoshi's shield take forever to drop however, so use it at your leisure. don't get too greedy with ftilts however, as if they predict it and get inside your spacing it can be punished



utilt - utilt is an awesome aerial wall, and you all need to use it more

the following characters get walled by utilt (it beats out all their aerials * means their aerials are faster than the utilt, making walling hard)
bowser
banana-less diddy
fox (not recommended due to shine shenanigans)
game and watch
ice climbers
jiggs (watch for pound)
kirby
lucas
luigi*
mario*
mk*
ness*
peach*
pikachu*
olimar*********
pit
squirtle*
sheik
sonic
toon link
wario

note: olimar has weird pikmin priority, yellow dair technically beat utilt, but the rest of it loses

just don't do it as much on the ground

I'm also starting to jab cancel into dtilts a lot, try it

 

[Big O]

Pikmin aerials clank with other moves unlike regular aerials. Yellow ones have slightly more range than the rest but they still clank with practically any move. I'm pretty sure Utilt clanks with yellow Dairs too.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

rich beat out my utilt with a yellow dair today, the rest of them seemed to lose though

edit: why do I always post useful stuff on the last post where no one will see it

you all need to tilt more, so I made lists

ftilt - a lot of dks hate this move because it's easy to punish against good characters

however, not all characters punish well, so ftilt it safe to use

characters that cannot punish a well spaced ftilt (basically spam the hell out of ftilt against them, except fox/kirby)
Captain falcon
fox facing you
ganon
ike
jiggs
kirby facing you
link
lucario
lucas
mario
peach w/o turnips
pit
squirtle
ivysaur
sheik w/o needle charge (one needle may hit if they do it really quick, but oh well 2%)
toon link
yoshi*

with the exception of yoshi, you need to space the tilts well to avoid punishment, yoshi's shield take forever to drop however, so use it at your leisure. don't get too greedy with ftilts however, as if they predict it and get inside your spacing it can be punished



utilt - utilt is an awesome aerial wall, and you all need to use it more

the following characters get walled by utilt (it beats out all their aerials * means their aerials are faster than the utilt, making walling hard)
bowser
banana-less diddy
fox (not recommended due to shine shenanigans)
game and watch
ice climbers
jiggs (watch for pound)
kirby
lucas
luigi*
mario*
mk*
ness*
peach*
pikachu*
olimar*********
pit
squirtle*
sheik
sonic
toon link
wario

note: olimar has weird pikmin priority, yellow dair technically beat utilt, but the rest of it loses

just don't do it as much on the ground

I'm also starting to jab cancel into dtilts a lot, try it

 

[Big O]

Lol that's weird because I've gotten jabs to clank with yellow Dairs. Maybe you did it too late or something. I'll have to look into it. Utilt and Ftilt are amazing anti-airs that combined beat practically any aerial. I tend to neglect reverse Utilts and I should be using it more often.

 

[ook]

I used to think up b cancelling was amazing but actually its near useless. If you do it right then you won't live on most stages. When you do it correctly the up b gives you no horizontal movement. You only get the DI after it. If you did get horizontal then you put yourself in a helpless state for no reason because you would have survived. Sometimes you can get to the edge but if your not high enough you usually can't. Even if you do they can edgehog you. Of course, japes YI smashville can all save you.

Unless you DI'd badly, the DI after the move will almost always be enough to get you back to the stage.


and it's only supposed to be used as a last resort (when you would die anyway if you didn't use it), so you might as well try.
But it's definitely not near useless

 

[itsthebigfoot]

the upb cancel is amazing and has saved me countless times

DI better

 

[daisho]

Of course after i say that i used it like 5 times successfully tonight... about 2 unsuccessful (in 16 matches)... I went 1-15...

 

[SuSa]

So I went D3 vs a DK today. I realized it's a pretty ****ing even matchup except when you are recovering (<3 dtilt) and unless infinites are allowed (standing infinite was banned at the tourney I went to)

Jmex beat my snake, I beat him with d3 (barely, it was last hit... I just edgeguarded well)...

God**** I need to learn the DK matchup.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

camp

really, really hard

and when things start going badly camp harder

 

[Ragnar0k]

I love DK's tilts, I'm a tiltstar.

 

[Jmex]

Good Games Susa...

As for the Down air on stage someone posted a few posts back.

I do this occasionally at lower percentages. I usually down air and due to the lag the enemy receives its enough to not get punished and still enough time to up smash. Ive been doing this since the release of Brawl, so trust me it works.