Oh! I never got into the Paper Mario games but this is good to know, thanks.
ChronoBound
Hey I remember you asking about Tropical Freeze a while back and I never got around to answering you. I just wanna say that personally, I love that game and it is one of my favorite Wii U titles as well as my favorite DKC. I play it to de-stress and I'm always impressed with the visuals, action, music and Kongs each time. While it is a 2D platformer, it feels like a living, breathing world with all its continuity detail not just from level to level, but from DKCR, and I find all the character designs to be charming at the minimum. Speaking of which, I enjoy all the Boss Fights in this game, which is a first for any of the DKCs I've played; even though I have a least favorite of the bunch (Island 4) I still enjoy fighting him. The Snowmads are cool both literally and figuratively.
I think it's a very well made game and each of the Kongs are fun to play as. Diddy gets upstaged by Dixie of course, but he's still alright. Making Cranky playable is great in my eyes because it shows he can talk trash and back it up, which goes a long way in improving his character; Dixie still shines despite Diddy inheriting her hover from DKC2&3 because she now double jumps and handles VERY smoothly underwater. She's basically Rayman Origins and Legends' swimming mechanics in DKC which, I have to admit is superior. And although DK needs a move of his own, he controls just as well as the others but without any platforming superpower. Playing well as him is a matter of pure skill.
There's ways to improve this formula, like having separately playable Kongs from the get-go and giving DK something to add to his gameplay, as well as changing Diddy's usage since Dixie outshines him, but the game is still excellent and in the right hands. A sequel that tops Tropical Freeze will be the best DKC, ESPECIALLY if they keep David Wise composing. His score for this game is outstanding.
As someone who's favorite genre is platformers (2D and 3D) Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze may honestly be the best 2D Platformer I ever played and may the best one Nintendo has ever made.
While the New Super Mario Bros series is solid and enjoyable, Tropical Freeze is just in a league of it's own, It builds upon the foundation of DKC Returns which was also very good and better than any entry in the NSMB series ,But still needed room for improvement.
Level design is damn impressive, While the Kremlings will always be the faction of choice for long time Donkey Kong fans, The Snomads were great villans and a huge improvement over the Tiki Tak Tribe who weren't terrible ,But they weren't memorable either, They were serviceable at best ,But it felt like facing an army of wooden goombas, The Snomads Viking and Arctic theme was a great idea and reminiscent of DKC 2's Pirate theme.
David Wise did an amazing job with the soundtrack ,One of the best I have heard in a video game, There's too many tracks to list that were great from the levels and boss fights especially Pompy (Big Top Bop) and Bashmaster (Punch Bowl) those were my favorite.
And now that King K. Rool has finally return and is in the spotlight once again thanks to Smash, I really do hope that we eventually get a 3rd entry in the modern Donkey Kong Country series that brings back the Kremlings, David Wise again and (if possible) surpasses Tropical Freeze, But that's gonna be a tough act to follow, But if anyone can do it again it's Retro Studios.
I really appreciate the feedback from both of you regarding Tropical Freeze. It seems the general consensus is that the game is at the very least better than DKC1 and Returns. Your feedback has made me look more into Tropical Freeze. I am still uncertain on whether I will ever get it, but you have given me further consideration for this title.
You do make some good points and I know I can't speak for everyone it's just in my eyes I feel that she has enough potential of her own or at least a Wolf/Lucas styled semi clone especially since they always reference how important her ponytail is which should be a huge part of her move set.
This place wasn't too peaceful before Isabelle was revived (many weren't too sure if they were going to make any semi clones before she came) I just want most of Dixie's fans to be happy with how she's represented as a fighter also as far as we know the dev team has stated that the new dlc characters won't be echoes which is why it's not a good idea to rely on that possiblity in my opinion, I know it's unknown if she's part of any future dlc packs but I rather not rely on any unofficial theories which could end up being false information.
I want to elaborate on the "additional echoes" scenario. There are presently three scenarios where Dixie Kong could still end up as part of the roster for Ultimate:
1. Sakurai decides to develop 2-3 additional echo fighters.
2. A second fighter pass is announced after the first one wraps up, and Dixie Kong is among it.
3. Dixie Kong is part of the current fighter pass.
The third scenario is the least likely one in my opinion, as I think all of the additional characters to the fighter pass are going to be third-party characters. As for the second one, that is an unlikely scenario (Sakurai has said the Ultimate team is going to shrink as DLC moves along), and even if a second fighter's pass were to be developed, it is very probable that Dixie will not be part of it (it could very quickly be filled by additional third-party characters, characters that are popular among the "Smash bubble". and characters that are featured prominently in contemporary Nintendo software).
Of all three of these, the first scenario, "additional echoes are made", might be the most likely one, and even that is an unlikely scenario (for it to happen as well as for Dixie Kong to be selected).
Basically, it might stem from Sakurai and his team wanting to fill out the character selection screen. Here is how it will probably look after we get the five fighters pass characters:
As can be seen there would be three empty slots for the character selection screen.
However, keep in mind that the character selection screen would only have missing slots when the three Mii Fighter slots are present.
In places where the Mii Fighters are excluded (like Smashdown), the roster becomes a nice block (with 6 rows, and 13 characters in each row, with random filling the bottom row).
Also, when the roster has echo fighters stacked (the three Mii Fighter character types also share a slot when echo fighters are stacked), the roster becomes a nice block as well, although with different dimensions (the six rows instead have only 12 characters in them).
A scenario where the roster becomes a block in almost every mode and game type (except classic mode selection) would be the development of three more echoes.
However, there are multiple considerations that would be very dire for Dixie Kong's selection as a possible echo.
One is that as can be seen, Smash 64's roster is kept to its own row entirely in every situation laid out. However, in order for it stay that way, there would need to be an additional echo fighter made for a character in that particular row. The problem is that that:
1. There are only a few candidates.
2. Funky Kong is the most viable candidate (and if Funky gets selected, Dixie will almost assuredly get passed on).
Here are the most likely candidates for an echo newcomer for first row on the roster (Smash 64 veterans):
Funky Kong (Donkey Kong)
Ninten (Ness)
Mach Rider (Captain Falcon)
That's it. Of these three, Funky Kong is easily the biggest name and most "sellable" by far. He is probably the most popular DK character after Dixie Kong and had a whole mode dedicated to him in the Tropical Freeze Switch port. He was also a playable character in Mario Kart Wii, which still remains by far the highest selling game to the Mario Kart series (37 million copies sold!).
His competition for this row (of conventional choices) consists of two characters that are very unknown even among "core" Nintendo fans, Ninten and Mach Rider. The former is a character that looks 95% similar to Ness (probably even more similar than Dark Pit is to Pit because at least those two have different hair color and default clothing colors), and from a game that was originally released 30 years ago, and only received an international release on the failed Wii U's Virtual Console. Ninten only sells to hardcore Mother fans.
The other is Mach Rider. Mach Rider is a very obscure character, with most only knowing about him/her through the Melee trophy and remix. Mach Rider might be more "sellable" than Ninten though due to having a "cool" design, but otherwise he/she might arguably be more obscure than Ninten.
That leaves Funky Kong as perhaps the "default" choice if the team wanted to keep the entire first row exclusive to Smash 64 veterans and their echoes.
The only options available aside from the three mentioned are "unorthodox" or "unknown" possibilities. One would be Metal Mario (as an echo of Mario). However, Metal Mario would drastically change Mario's weight and fall speed, two major stats that might be a bridge too far for an echo. Metal Mario has the notability for being a mid-boss in Smash 64 and being a part of Mario Kart's roster since Mario Kart 7 (as well as part of the roster of a few Mario spinoff titles like Mario Golf and Mario Sports Superstars). However, Metal Mario being added also has the problem of making the Metal Box item unusable for him.
Another unorthodox choice for an echo fighter would be none other than Bandana Dee or Waddle Dee. He is one of the biggest characters from a major core veteran Nintendo franchise that is still not part of the roster, as well as one of the few major Nintendo characters without any sort of major role in Ultimate. Waddle Dee/Bandana Dee are extremely similar in body shape and could easily perform most of Kirby's A-moves with little difficulty (there was even a mod for Smash Wii U that replaced Kirby's model with a Waddle Dee). Where the problem comes in though is the fact that Waddle Dee/Bandana Dee cannot perform Kirby's specials, Final Smash, and dash-a (where Kirby performs his "burn" attack), and the fact that Bandana Dee in particular is known for his usage of a spear.
This would mean that for Bandana Dee or Waddle Dee to work as an echo he would need a new set of specials and Final Smash (and possibly a new dash attack). This would make Bandana Dee or Waddle Dee an inverse of Wolf and Lucas, where their A-moves and throws are all different but they share similar specials and Final Smash with Fox and Ness. Chrom has given the precedent of having a different special and Final Smash, and Ken has given the precedent of an unique Final Smash, unique command inputs, multiple different a-moves, and even different running/walking speed.
Could Dee (Bandana and/or Waddle) have different specials and a Final Smash still make him be considered an echo assuming he kept all of Kirby's stats and the rest of his moveset? Keep in mind, Sakurai's ultimate reasoning for why Ken was still considered an echo despite all of his differences was literally " because "I say so". Dee having five or six different moves but keeping everything else the same (speed, weight, nearly all a-moves, fall speed, etc.) would be a very interesting character case.
Some rough ideas for Bandana Dee's specials could be:
Neutral: Spear thrust (basically takes Kirby's copied Marth/Lucina special, only Dee does it with his spear)
Up: Copter twirl (does the copter twirl with his spear)
Down: Moondrop (basically acts like Yoshi's down special where Dee leaps into the hair, and thrusts down with his spear)
Side: Spear throw (basically operates like Kirby's copied ability for the Links' arrows, with how far its thrown being based on how long it is charged)
However, this is a very unorthodox idea, and I am not optimistic Sakurai and his team will even consider it to begin with (let alone the viability of it) even if Sakurai and his team were to greenlight additional echoes. However, the possibility of getting one of the biggest Nintendo characters left onto the roster is very exciting to say the least.
The third unorthodox idea is an "unknown". Typically in every Pokemon generation a Pikachu clone is included (basically a cute electric rodent or mouse-like Pokemon), however, most of them have a different body type from Pikachu even if they have some facial similarities (such as the red cheeks). It is possible that Pokemon Sword/Shield introduces a Pikachu derivative that could easily be made into an echo fighter of Pikachu. If it does happen (that this hypothetical Pikachu derivative is included), it will be because Game Freak or the Pokemon Company commissioned it to Sakurai and his team.
If an additional echo is not made for the Smash 64 row in the situation where three additional echoes are made, then Peach would be pulled up to the first row, leaving Daisy no longer alongside her original, which might possibly be aesthetically unpleasing to many. On that note this leads to another problem leading to Dixie Kong in the scenario of additional echoes being made.
If you look at the rest of the above "complete" roster, the echoes are alongside their original counterparts on the final roster. However, if two echoes were added from after Daisy to before Simon, Richter would be pushed to a the bottom-most row (the one with all of the Fighters Pass newcomers).
That would mean that if not messing with roster aesthetics is a consideration for echo selection, Dixie Kong basically would have to compete with almost the entire roster for a slot. It would basically mean:
- Impa
- Shadow (assuming he is still in the running even with an Assist Trophy role)
- Alph (assuming he might be promoted to having his own slot)
- Jeanne
- Octoling
would all have to fight for a single slot. There is a strong case to be made for all of these characters, and in general they are the strongest additional echo candidates in general. When combined with the fact that Funky Kong is the most attractive candidate for an echo newcomer for the first row, things are very dire for Dixie Kong to be selected. As I said multiple times before, Dixie Kong even being selected as an echo fighter for Ultimate would be among the greatest roster inclusion miracles, and what I outlined just shows some of the obstacles facing Dixie Kong even if additional echoes for Ultimate are to happen.
However, there is one silver lining. If Dixie Kong were to get the "middle" echo slot, it would basically be because of the fact that she is one of the biggest Nintendo names left not on the roster, and because Sakurai and/or his team thought she needs to be on the roster. If Dixie Kong gets in as a newcomer, it will be due to her "starpower" as a Nintendo character. That might be the only advantage she has. However, this advantage would also likely bestow upon her a level of difference on par with Ken, and possibly exceeding him. Dixie Kong would likely possess more than just an unique recovery and Final Smash if included under this scenario. That is the silver lining for Dixie Kong if she made it in as an echo under this scenario. However, this is a very big if. The other candidates outlined above have very strong attributes in their favor as well.
As with the Smash 64 row, the bottom row, which would begin with K. Rool if Richter is not allowed to not be on a different row than Simon, has a dearth of decent echo fighter candidates. Of the characters known about for this row, none seem to have a popular or well-known characters that could be made into an echo fighter for them. Any decent candidates for an echo fighter would thus have to come from one of unannounced Fighters Pass characters.
One unorthodox choice for this row though would be the development of a fourth Mii Fighter type. My personal suggestion would be "wizard/magician" basically a fighter based off of the specials and a-moves that characters like Ness, Lucas, Zelda, Mewtwo, and Robin possess. An additional Mii Fighter would also be able to join the combined Mii Fighter icon when the roster is selected to the "stacked" option.
Again, as with Bandana Dee as a Kirby echo, I am not optimistic that this idea will even come to Sakurai and his team, but if it does (the Mii Magician) it does open the doors for lots of interesting DLC Mii costumes (namely costumes of the classic classes from the Final Fantasy series, characters from the Mother series, popular mages from Fire Emblem, etc.).
Also, unlike the echoes, a wholly original character (even a Mii) would take quite a bit of time, especially when possessing a multitude of specials. This is a pretty unlikely idea overall even if it were to hypothetically come up in discussion among Sakurai and his team.
That basically concludes my assessment of the possible situation of if additional echoes were to happen as DLC for Ultimate. As can be seen, even if this situation were to happen, Dixie Kong faces an extremely uphill battle. However, if she is somehow greenlit, she will probably end up being the most unique echo on the roster alongside Ken (and possibly even more unique than Ken).
's shoes are huge ones to fill.
