Q&A Diddy's Q&A + Competitive Development - ASK QUESTIONS HERE

Sonicninja115

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How much special lag is on Diddy Kong's Monkey Flip Kick? Is it significantly more when you miss the grab/kick? Or is it the same. Numbers would be nice and is what I'm particularly looking for, but even just letting me know if the kick or command grab has more lag would be nice as well.
Check out this site for all your frame data needs!
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Diddy Kong

However, they don't have the landing lag. I am going to quote your post in the mechanics and techniques Q&A, as the people there will know.
 

KuroganeHammer

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Sonicninja115

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It's probably like 30 frames or something. Pretty much every special move has 30 frames landing lag.
Someone answered 26 with no autocancel. Thanks though!

Would footstool-Banana toss down have any applications? I see potential in the trip and such, and getting a combo out of footstool.
 
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.CAP.

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Someone answered 26 with no autocancel. Thanks though!

Would footstool-Banana toss down have any applications? I see potential in the trip and such, and getting a combo out of footstool.
Would probably be good to get a guaranteed FF nair. I feel bananas not really necessary since you'll be able to get a good string going just from the foot stool. But it doesn't hurt I suppose.
 

Sonicninja115

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Would probably be good to get a guaranteed FF nair. I feel bananas not really necessary since you'll be able to get a good string going just from the foot stool. But it doesn't hurt I suppose.
You can get the tech chase, but the banana is just gaurenteed. I feel like Footstool tech chases are a good thing to look into ATM.
 

Sonicninja115

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At low percents you can footstool -> dair to jab lock, Zinoto does dthrow footstool dair a lot (I think this is called the Ge0 combo?)
I have been out of the Diddy loop recently, so I am not surprised I missed it. Does he do it frequently? Or in other words, how viable is it?
 

Labernash

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Any tips for MUs against deep spacing characters like Marth, Shulk, Ike, Corrin, etc? I end up getting cornered and losing all of my momentum.
 

Sonicninja115

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Any tips for MUs against deep spacing characters like Marth, Shulk, Ike, Corrin, etc? I end up getting cornered and losing all of my momentum.
I have always had trouble with Marth and Corrin. I haven't been able to fight a patched Ike so I can't help you there.

With Shulk, you need to abuse his lag. Even though he has mallc, it is easy to see when he is going to Mallc and SH Fair is pretty good for beating it. You need to abuse Shulks downsides. Shulk has a bad off-stage game, and a predictable recovery. Try getting the spike on up b or get the trump Bair. A trump bair could gimp shulk at 50%. Remember what each art does. When he uses buster, you can literally just run away. The only times when you "have" to fight are when he uses Speed or Jump. Otherwise just camp him out. You really need to abuse the character in this MU, and know when to airdodge.

Marth is interesting. HORRIBLE off-stage games, so always try to gimp him or set up a ledge-trap. Look for patterns in his jumping. If you know he is going to SH Fair, then you can easily SH Fair him back. In this MU, you have to be careful with your MFK's, as they can get destroyed by Fair and Bair. Just don't get predictable. Learn what you can punish.

Corrin... is annoying. I can't really help you, not enough MU experience. But try to read his DL's for recovery and then spike him.
 

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All swordies give out to pressure, if you throw a banana and head in for a quick fair and dtilts on their shield they can't really do much to answer back.

You can also harass them a lot on shield because they don't really gain anything from grabs at non-kill percents except for stage control, which you can gain quickly with banana. dtilt > roll > dtilt, banana throw on shield to grab/dtilt, etc.
 

horizons889

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I only use it for up air. Was wondering if most diddys use it for all of them considering how he is a technical character with all his combos. I also use tilt stick
 

Sonicninja115

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I only use it for up air. Was wondering if most diddys use it for all of them considering how he is a technical character with all his combos. I also use tilt stick
You usually only use C-stick for aerials when using a claw grip or when you have set R/L to Jump. Personally, I don't, as I need the control over my jump that the X/Y buttons give. I usually don't need that much control over my momentum as Diddy, not to the extent that C-stick aerials provide at least.
 

horizons889

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Another question, do a lot of diddy mains have their c-stick to tilts? I personally have mine set to tilts. When I started playing smash 4 I mained fox and found it easier to do uptilts with the c-stick. Now as Diddy I like to have tilt stick for down tilt setups or uptilt KOs. And idk, I find it weird that for aerials, I only use the c-stick for up air, just became a habit. All my other aerials im confortable with a+analog
 
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Pazx

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Tilt stick is good for Diddy mostly because (walking) dtilt is kind of ridiculously good. I also c-stick my uairs.

Since switching to tilt stick I also turned tap jump back on as the tilt stick makes utilt easier and it means I can buffer SH uairs.
 
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Labernash

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Any MU advice for Captain Falcon? The neutral and edge guarding games of both characters seem to be pretty even. They both hold momentum really well. It's definitely hard, any tips?
 

HoSmash4

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How much hitstun does the banana deal? And what frame does banana toss OOS start?
 
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Pazx

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DOUBLE POST WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH~ (don't do this)

I now have knockback values courtesy of Kurogane Hammer HoSmash4 HoSmash4 so we can calculate hitstun now.

Banana has a knockback angle of 361, 50 bkb and no knockback growth. Smash throwing the banana down (frame 6, FAF 19) does 8.65% and smash throwing it forwards (frame 7, FAF 21) at close range does 7%. I believe throwing it backwards also does 7%. A weak downwards throw does 6% and a weak forward throw does 5% (a longer ranged smash forward throw also does 5%).

Does anyone know or want to find out how long it is until a character can act after being tripped by a banana?

PS. Congrats on your peformance at Albion :colorful:
 
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horizons889

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Hey, I have a question about how I press my buttons. Learning to instinctively short hop f-fair with diddy I tend to hold my thumb over X (jump) and slide it a bit to A, almost like clicking them as a button. Im trying to avoid doing this, but was wondering if anyone else does it this way and if I should just learn how to 100% always do them without doing that sliding method. I can most of the time get it (pressing the buttons seperately) but like i said its instinctive thing when i play diddy
 

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Hey, I have a question about how I press my buttons. Learning to instinctively short hop f-fair with diddy I tend to hold my thumb over X (jump) and slide it a bit to A, almost like clicking them as a button. Im trying to avoid doing this, but was wondering if anyone else does it this way and if I should just learn how to 100% always do them without doing that sliding method. I can most of the time get it (pressing the buttons seperately) but like i said its instinctive thing when i play diddy
Doing this is fine, but you should also practice using the C stick so you can do retreating forward airs.
 
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Hey, I'm a Yoshi main and I'm hoping to get advice on the Diddy matchup. Like what to look out for, how to approach, etc. I plan on attending a tournament come Friday and I'll need as much help as I can get. Thanks in advance.
 

EternalFlare

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How do you do the Popgun B-reverse without air dodging? I can do the technique fine and it shifts my momentum as it's supposed to. But unlike Brawl, when I do it it causes me to air dodge as well.

At first I thought that's just how cancelling the popgun worked in this game. But then I saw some fairly recent Diddy videos in this game and saw that it's indeed possible to do a b-reverse with the popgun without getting an airdodge right after.

So does anybody know how to do this? Some clarification would be appreciated.
 

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How do you do the Popgun B-reverse without air dodging? I can do the technique fine and it shifts my momentum as it's supposed to. But unlike Brawl, when I do it it causes me to air dodge as well.

At first I thought that's just how cancelling the popgun worked in this game. But then I saw some fairly recent Diddy videos in this game and saw that it's indeed possible to do a b-reverse with the popgun without getting an airdodge right after.

So does anybody know how to do this? Some clarification would be appreciated.
You can either do it more or less frame perfectly (I think if you only press shield for 1 frame you don't airdodge, this will be easier with a digital button) OR you can input and hold shield before the popgun input.

eg. when going for a monkey flip -> b reverse popgun cancel, press shield during the monkey flip and hold it until you've done the popgun cancel.
 

EternalFlare

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You can either do it more or less frame perfectly (I think if you only press shield for 1 frame you don't airdodge, this will be easier with a digital button) OR you can input and hold shield before the popgun input.

eg. when going for a monkey flip -> b reverse popgun cancel, press shield during the monkey flip and hold it until you've done the popgun cancel.
I see, that makes sense. Thanks for the help.
 

Drevis2

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I was wondering how good Pikachu is at assisting Diddy at his bad matchups. I saw from Zinoto's list that Diddy loses to: Sonic, Luigi, Sheik, Cloud, Rosalina, Megaman, and Olimar. I looked at many characters MU lists from top players or communities to see who did best against all these characters. The one that seemed the best for these matchups is Pikachu, looking at ESAM's MU list. Pikachu goes even with or beats EVERY SINGLE ONE of Diddy's bad MU's according to ESAM's list. (I'm not sure if he said Pikachu doesn't lose to Sheik, but if he did, then I think it was only 55/45 Sheik's favor, which was better than Diddy's 60/40) But can I trust this? I think ESAM has been known to highly overrate his character, usually putting him at 2nd best in the game. (I don't know if he still thinks this or not, but he used to for sure.) and he only put like 2 or 3 bad MU's for Pika there, obviously the worst was Mario, but I'm not sure if Mario is the worst because Pikachu actually loses to him, or that ESAM just struggles with Mario, because he does struggle with him. So what do you guys think? Will I get as much help as ESAM seems to think I can with Diddy? Is Pika worth it as a secondary or co-main?
 

C0rvus

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So today in bracket, a Diddy hit me with up throw > footstool > dair reset and almost got falling nair > up air too but he flubbed it. I know up throw > fs most likely isn't real, but is there any merit to it? Seems like an alright mixup, but perhaps only if your opponent doesn't know about it.
 

Pazx

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So today in bracket, a Diddy hit me with up throw > footstool > dair reset and almost got falling nair > up air too but he flubbed it. I know up throw > fs most likely isn't real, but is there any merit to it? Seems like an alright mixup, but perhaps only if your opponent doesn't know about it.
Dthrow -> footstool -> dair is known as the "Ge0 Combo" and is very much a thing, particularly on non-fastfallers, so I assume this might also work sometimes. You can make it a lot harder for the Diddy by mixing up your DI though.
 

Mythzotick

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Hey Diddy Mains! :)

Since I'm new to these boards, I not familiar with everything that's been discussed here so if I say anything "new" that is common knowledge here, I apologize.

Anyway, after watching Kamemushi have a lot of success in Japan and at EVO while showcasing how deadly footsool combos can be even against the very best, my question is this.

I haven't tested this out yet, but do you guys think that implementing footstool combos with a z-drop banana can be a viable option, or at least an interesting mix-up option? Thanks.
 

Sonicninja115

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Hey Diddy Mains! :)

Since I'm new to these boards, I not familiar with everything that's been discussed here so if I say anything "new" that is common knowledge here, I apologize.

Anyway, after watching Kamemushi have a lot of success in Japan and at EVO while showcasing how deadly footsool combos can be even against the very best, my question is this.

I haven't tested this out yet, but do you guys think that implementing footstool combos with a z-drop banana can be a viable option, or at least an interesting mix-up option? Thanks.
We have the Geo combo, Dthrow-Footstool-Dair lock. But other then that, not much.Are you meaning Footstool-Z-Drop Banana? My main problem with it is that a simple SH Dthrow would be faster and accomplish the same effect. Is it more complicated then that?
 

Mythzotick

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We have the Geo combo, Dthrow-Footstool-Dair lock. But other then that, not much.Are you meaning Footstool-Z-Drop Banana? My main problem with it is that a simple SH Dthrow would be faster and accomplish the same effect. Is it more complicated then that?
Yes and I would tend to agree with you in that the former is more reliable than the latter as it's easier and not as complicated. Though it is there as an option for you to show off more creativity and versatility at least.
 
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hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for


I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.
 
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