Q&A Diddy's Q&A + Competitive Development - ASK QUESTIONS HERE

Pazx

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#1
Please use this thread for asking any questions you may have related to Diddy Kong, as well as post any discoveries or developments with regards to Diddy Kong's competitive development and the advancement of his metagame.

If you want to socialize, or continue an off-topic discussion, please use the Diddy Social Thread.
 
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Player-1

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#4
Got to play the full game again this past weekend and some more notes from me:

- After using your side-b your speed in the air increases and you have more momentum which I think is pretty good against people juggling you, helps your recovery too.
-a theory about diddy's up-b. Similar to the newly found tech, Vectoring, I think Diddy's up-b is based on vectors too. It can go a certain amount of units in the x and y directions. That explains why he goes roughly the same distance if you went straight up or changed midway through a horizontal launch into a vertical launch. There is probably a certain point during the launch that the game cuts off how much distance you go though.

I think I had more, but I can't remember so I'll give an update if I do.
 
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Player-1

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#6
interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IxkIIG_Q0E&feature=youtu.be

edit: part 2:
http://t.co/O7Y2NimDnm


What I find most weird from this is the fact you can cancel the first few frames of shield/air dodge (?) into a side-b. That mechanic might lead to some other things.

Another use of these types of hit stun cancelling that I haven't seen been mentioned much is that moves with multiple hits (mostly moves that have like 2 hits, the first one that sets you up into the stronger 2nd hit) like pit/dark pit's fsmashes you'd be able to hitstun cancel out of (although if you air dodge you'll probably land right back into the ground and take the 2nd hit anyway from the air dodge lag, maybe the peanut can hit pit before the 2nd hit connects or maybe a side-b would be able to connect before the 2nd hit connects, I think side-b has invincibility frames, banana throw forward I think should work though).
 
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Luigi player

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#10
You can peanut popgun cancel in the air without airdodging! You have to hold shield at the right time and not too long to do it. I'll try to practice it now.
Upsmash is a nice KO move... the first hit hits in front of Diddy and then combos into the upper ones.
I like the slide you get from the (especially smash) sideB when landing on the ground with it without lag. You can short hop it and land without lag and slide quite a distance. It's fun and could be used as a mixup (you can do anything out of it since you stand while sliding).

Diddy is really good... his bair seems to be faster. Uair has less endinglag... the much less vertical height of his upB is kinda hard to deal with I think, but the horizontal stuff definitely has great uses so it's okay as a tradeoff I guess. It's so fun flying around with it, lol.

edit:

It seems like you have to hold shield for like one or two exact frame(s) to not airdodge during the PPC :/
 
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Gre ninja'd

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#11
i have the game, and i haven't really tried diddy, but from what i've played against, he seems to have a bad matchup against duck hunt dog
 

Player-1

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#12
You can peanut popgun cancel in the air without airdodging! You have to hold shield at the right time and not too long to do it. I'll try to practice it now.
Upsmash is a nice KO move... the first hit hits in front of Diddy and then combos into the upper ones.
I like the slide you get from the (especially smash) sideB when landing on the ground with it without lag. You can short hop it and land without lag and slide quite a distance. It's fun and could be used as a mixup (you can do anything out of it since you stand while sliding).

Diddy is really good... his bair seems to be faster. Uair has less endinglag... the much less vertical height of his upB is kinda hard to deal with I think, but the horizontal stuff definitely has great uses so it's okay as a tradeoff I guess. It's so fun flying around with it, lol.

edit:

It seems like you have to hold shield for like one or two exact frame(s) to not airdodge during the PPC :/
What do you mean right time? Do you still do it like as fast as possible or are you saying you have to wait a bit before trying to cancel? Also I felt bair was just as fast as it was before when I played, it'd be cool if we could get some frame data going soon. Other character boards have it already.
 

Luigi player

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#13
What do you mean right time? Do you still do it like as fast as possible or are you saying you have to wait a bit before trying to cancel? Also I felt bair was just as fast as it was before when I played, it'd be cool if we could get some frame data going soon. Other character boards have it already.
in brawl you can just hold shield before you can cancel and not airdodge, and can keep holding it even after you cancelled .

In smash4 you have to release shield immediately after the cancel. It felt like 1 or 2 frames so im not sure how reliable it is...
 

Player-1

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#15
For whatever reason, MK has a long range GT and is the only character in the game from what I can tell who doesn't have an abysmal glidetoss. Also, he can now glidetoss using his back roll and it's also long range.
 
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#17
Diddy doesn't need that item canceling crap though, he's already SO GOOD in this game without it. Peach really needs the help now that float canceling is gone and Link is overrated as hell right now, so he definitely needs it.
 

Lex Jewthor

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#19
Not sure how to do this, would be great if someone translated, but this seems pretty important:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnLXfZlj2LA&feature=youtu.be&t=55s

edit: Apparently it only works for Link, TL, and Peach. Disappointing :(
Yeah, it's because down-B is a throwing animation for them. For us, he just tosses it back upward. :(

Aight so lets talk about some ****. Day 1 Diddy impressions.


General Move Notes
  • Jab: Jab1 is awful. The multi hit jab is awful. If you use jab, make sure you HOLD A so that you just 'gentleman' the jab. Does 10%, isn't that bad. Never use single jab though, D-tilt is better than it in every way.
  • F-tilt: has decent range, is quick, seems decent enough.
  • D-tilt: is better than single jab in almost every way. Faster, lets you do other things out of it apart from jab combo.
  • Uptilt: is a good juggle, gets beaten by a lot of sex kicks / air dodges if you try to spam it, but if you're smart you can just shield and grab them for a free punish. It actually kills at really high % so if you're having trouble closing out a stock this is an option
  • F-smash: is your main killing tool out of a banana trip read or as a punish. Raw F-smash is unsafe and super hard to get. The two hits seem to link together well though. It does combo out of a close range banana, but lol close range banana
  • Up smash: doesn't really kill, only does 11 damage, and if you do a running upsmash the first hit sends them at some weird trajectory. Mostly useful as a juggle.
  • D-smash: as said before in this topic, is stronger on the SECOND hit behind you. Good for roll punishes.
  • Dash attack: I really hate now. It rarely links well, is EASILY punished, and only sets up for things at 0% with no DI. I really miss his brawl cartwheel. :(
  • Nair: has piss poor range but does knock them above you. Which is where you want them, because...
  • Uair: is amazing now. Has a wide range above him, juggles well at low %, can be comboed out of D-throw, dash attack, upthrow depending on DI at low %'s. It kills at high percent, it beats a lot of things. It's fast. It can bait airdodges easily.
  • Bair: has good range and virtually no range. Combos well at low %, and is probably your bread and butter spacing and neutral game aerial. Bair and D-tilt have been what I've used most
  • Fair: Good 'finisher'. Kills around ~150% depending on character, and is quite laggy on landing. I generally prefer Bair unless I'm trying to get them offstage.
  • Dair is... Dair. it's a spike. Using it onstage isn't as rewarding as it can be teched and has significant lag.
  • D-throw is, imo, your best setup throw. Back and forward are useful for moving them or tossing them offstage.
  • I can't get Peanut popgun to cancel without airdodging at all. Like, at all. Even in 1/4. It's not based on duration you hold it, there must be something else.
  • Side B is a great option once you have them conditioned. Low %, D-throw Bair, then side B to punish the airdodge or shield works great. Kick is amazing, beats A LOT of projectiles (I went through disc, can and gunman at the same time vs a DHD.
Up B stuff / Recovery

This move is weird as ****. If you crash, you die. Yeah. That sucks. As a result, you may try to avoid the walls and then fall to it after, but this leaves you open to punishes SO badly. If the stage has a vertical wall, you can side B, double Jump, wall cling/jump and that USUALLY gets you to the ledge safely. Also, if it has a wall, if you Up B diagonally up you ride along the wall WITHOUT crashing.

Safest way to recover is diagonal THEN up to the ledge. Sweetspotting from a horizontal is super hard.

If you Side B KICK, it eats your up B. if using it to recover, DO NOT KICK.

Will add more in a bit.
 

tibs7

Smash Champion
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#21
u-air is pretty decent.
nair actually does something in this game im so happy. will combo at high and low percent to kill moves or set ups early % which is nice.
Diddy's recovery is ridiculously good now. that mobility is crazy and you even use it up of shield to hit someone and gain centre stage.
His side B, way quicker, seems to actually hit short characters when they stand next to you which is nice. I havent tested its priority but hopefully its good :3 i pretty sure you cant auto cancel it though which sucks. but yeah side B landings with kick or grab atleast will trade.
I just got the game yesterday so theres still lots more to analyse :)
he seems atleast A tier for now
 

Lex Jewthor

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#22
Nair is good compared to Brawl but awful coming from PM so it still 'feels' nerfed even though I know PM isn't official.

Up air is indeed his best move when they're above you. It is so. Good.
 
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#24
Anyone else having a hard time securing KOs?

I feel like fair and fsmash are too predictable and never land. I have a hard time KOing before 160, and 90% of the time its uair
 

Lex Jewthor

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#25
Anyone else having a hard time securing KOs?

I feel like fair and fsmash are too predictable and never land. I have a hard time KOing before 160, and 90% of the time its uair
Fair doesn't really KO. I find myself relying on Banana -> Dsmash / Fsmash or offstage edgeguarding. d-throw -> up air if you can predict the airdodge works, as you said. Diddy just isn't an early killer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf3Qu38MNM4&feature=youtu.be

Also uair breaks the multi jab combo thing. It is a godsend.
Ah. I did see this. Great!
 
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phili

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#26
i'm having trouble approaching the more campy characters like toon link and DHD. anyone have any tips?
 

GOofyGV

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#27
Hi fellow Diddy's, I would like to know how you guys think about Diddy's nair. I actually like the move a lot because it has low landing lag allowing Diddy to follow up pretty fast.

i'm having trouble approaching the more campy characters like toon link and DHD. anyone have any tips?
I found meself liking crawling against duck hunt duo, because the sideB will go over you iirc. It's actually useable. SideB is alsways a good option, it goes over Robins Elfire and a couple of other moves and the kick has good priority. Diddy's mobility is good again so You can also use that.

Are there people using upB to approach here? I found it helpfull to read rolls aways from you, if you crash in the ground it deals pretty good damage and knockback.
 

Player-1

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#28
Nair is better than in brawl for sure. I wouldn't describe it as having low landing lag, though it's the lowest out of our aerials. I think it's 12 frames which is still pretty significant. I mostly use nair for combo starts, extenders and if my opponent air dodges past me while I'm juggling them then I can land into them with nair during their AD landing lag.
 

Zinoto

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#29
i'm having trouble approaching the more campy characters like toon link and DHD. anyone have any tips?
I found myself liking crawling against duck hunt duo
^^^

Crawling is a good option in general. Dtilt --> fair is a true combo in this game (as long as dtilt sends them into the tumble animation), is a kill option at high percents, and as long as you are crawling you are essentially a moving dtilt. Also our crawl puts us insanely low to the ground, making it really easy to go under projectiles.
 
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Dragoomba

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#30
So, here's a combo. Toss a banana using down-b, then side-b the opponent and have the banana land on them. You'll both fall out of the grab state, but the opponent will be in a trip state, so you're free to fsmash/dsmash/throw/etc.

I'm not sure if this was possible or not in Brawl, I wasn't a Diddy player in that game.
 

Player-1

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#31
that was possible in brawl, but it wasn't a combo in brawl because they could do a getup option before we had time to do a smash attack. I
 

Dragoomba

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#32
that was possible in brawl, but it wasn't a combo in brawl because they could do a getup option before we had time to do a smash attack. I
Good to know. I tested it with a friend and they couldn't do a getup option beforehand, so apparently it's a true combo in this game. :)
 

Lex Jewthor

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#33
i'm having trouble approaching the more campy characters like toon link and DHD. anyone have any tips?
My buddy mains Duck Hunt and a well timed side B kick is able to go through can, disc AND gunman and punish him if you do it right. You want to use this to PUNISH a projectile, however, as it's unsafe to throw out for no reason.

As for Diddy's Nair, coming from PM it feels weaker, but then again so does everything else. But it's buffed from Brawl, so I guess it is a buff. at low %, Nair true combos into uptilt, and it's a good juggling move.
 

Dragoomba

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#34
As for Diddy's Nair, coming from PM it feels weaker, but then again so does everything else. But it's buffed from Brawl, so I guess it is a buff. at low %, Nair true combos into uptilt, and it's a good juggling move.
I think nair is really good to land with, considering the potential follow ups it allows. It may just be me, but it feels like the move has some good priority as well.
 

Dashum

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#35
Also uair breaks the multi jab combo thing. It is a godsend.
Thanks for the video. I'm a first time Diddy player and I'm having trouble piecing it together based on your's and Leffen's video. Do you think you (or anybody else) can give an input breakdown of what's going on? I know you turned off the lights in your video so it's easier to see the screen, but then it's too dark to see what your hands are inputting haha.

For the air popgun cancel, I'm probably getting it wrong but is it...
  1. Hold shield in the air
  2. Press B for popgun, let go almost immediately
  3. Tap opposite direction to turn in the air
?

Thanks!
 

Zinoto

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#36
Thanks for the video. I'm a first time Diddy player and I'm having trouble piecing it together based on your's and Leffen's video. Do you think you (or anybody else) can give an input breakdown of what's going on? I know you turned off the lights in your video so it's easier to see the screen, but then it's too dark to see what your hands are inputting haha.

For the air popgun cancel, I'm probably getting it wrong but is it...
  1. Hold shield in the air
  2. Press B for popgun, let go almost immediately
  3. Tap opposite direction to turn in the air
?

Thanks!
1. Hold shield in the air
2. Press B for the popgun, let go almost immediately
3. Tap opposite direction to turn in the air.
4. Hold B until it cancels itself.
 

Dragoomba

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#37
Wow, Diddy's up-b when used offensively is RIDICULOUS. 18% for the explosion, 24% when both hits land. Along with the increased mobility and the unpredictability of the barrels after going loose, I think he might have one of the best out of shield options in the game.
 

Brickbox

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#38
Can someone be kind enough to list what guaranteed(or almost guaranteed) follow ups diddy has and at what percent ranges they work at?

looking to start messing with this character and it would really help me out.
 

Sweet Genius

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#39
Okay so, im really trying to get into playing diddy, and im sorta new to the competitive scene, any tips for a beginner on Diddy cause i suck monkey butt (No pun intended) atm WITH a lot of practice
 

phili

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#40
Can someone be kind enough to list what guaranteed(or almost guaranteed) follow ups diddy has and at what percent ranges they work at?

looking to start messing with this character and it would really help me out.
I've only been playing diddy for a few days, but some of the ones i've seen/learned are:

nair > utilt
dthrow > uair
dash attack > uair

All of these things work at low percent on most of the cast. Sometimes you can also string 2-3 utilts together but i think its fairly easy to SDI out of.

I'm also interested in learning more combos so if anyone else wants to weigh in, i'd appreciate it
 
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