DGames Summer Mafia Bash - Day 2 Begins. Deadline Day 2 begins - Deadline 8:00 A.M. CST Monday 6/24

[#HBC | Mac]

This game is never getting broken open. It's going to continue being a **** show because we have 25% of the playerlist doing nothing.

Then sell me on Rockin scum. I have a very hard time seeing it being better than a Lore lynch.

you say this, but then you're ok with letting coasters and inactives live?

I'm trying to understand what makes lore such a great play compared to one of the useless slots or JTB or Rockin. I mean i agree that the mutual defenses between Lore and Doop is enough to merit a lynch, but Lore's been giving us substance, there actually seems to some semblance of scumhunting desire to me

Whereas you have someone like Rockin who seems to just be sitting on the sidelines, not really showing any sort of agency in trying to find scum. When he does post it's either in reaction to someone explicitly calling him out or he's just summarizing how town seems to feel making it unclear whether or not he agrees with the stance. He seems to just be going with the flow and it's hard for me to parse where his reads lie exactly or why he has those reads.

Or you have someone like JTB who, similar to your read of Lore, seems to have spent most of the early game painting people as scum for shoddy weak reasons. And then disappears once he catches heat yet has never done anything to make any of us (atleast me) feel better about his slot since after his d1 play. And then replaces out

AND THEN you have ppl who we literally have nothing useful from for D2

• FrozenFlame
• Tom (he was here early in the Day at least... but seems to be developing a pattern of dissappearing once actual **** starts happening and wagons start consolidating)
• ****in Nabe who we have nothing from for the entire game

Are you that confident in your read that you think Lore is a better play than all the above?

Lore has zero desire to find scum. He is just trying to find faults with people's play. Look at his case on Spak:

a) Spak answered a question about a possible flip situation ---> therefore Spak is trying to set up back to back mislynches as scum.
b) Spak answered a question Pythag asked, but has Pythag as a scumread --> Spak's read on Pythag is fake and Spak is scum.

This is the most reachy and ridiculous **** anyone could ever make into an argument. It's actually more blinkered than your arguments.

But even though Lore is turning tiny insignificant things into 'hard scum reads', he has no problems with me, Ryker, Tom, or anyone else who could destroy his arguments in seconds, because he's only picking on people he thinks he can get lynched.

real talk, could this just be Lore being bad?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Commenting on myself and idle thoughts are basically all I have until I'm caught up, but I don't think that lacks value. I'm also a piece to help make something happen, if someone is patient enough to retread their case a bit.

nabe explain how your catch-up is going? are you saying you haven't read the full thread and have just been skimming the last couple pages as they've happened?

how far into the game have you actually read, and do you plan on actually doing it?

can you see how your play this game merits your death toDay?

Vote: Tom

substantiate this please

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i don't get how spak is a play to some people

Ranmaru, i wholeheartedly agree with Ryker re y'alls recent discussion, the inactives and JTB should all be higher prio than pythag and spak i think

 

[#HBC | Mac]

got a lot going on this wknd, so probably won't be around too much. but ill make sure to check in a couple times more before deadline and should hopefully be on a bunch tomorrow evening

 

[ranmaru]

I'm fine with focusing more on inactives Day 3. What's your opinion on Pythag exactly, I'm curious.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

his play toDay makes me feel a lot better about his slot, he had periods of time where he seemed to be genuinely engaged and scumhunting

and im remembering correctly, he and doop were at odds super early on. and that didn't seem likely to be a bus

 

[ranmaru]

The only thing I recall is his post on Kary and Lore. Mostly he has been occasionally asking questions about flips. I just feel his placement on the wagon is weird along with his Day 1 play.

 

[ranmaru]

Spak Where you at bro, would like to chat.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Ran / Gorf / Ryker / Pythag where do yall stand re: Lore atm?

 

[ranmaru]

null-town.

 

[Spak]

Spak Does this mean your stance on Pythag has changed? If so, tell us to what stance, and why.

Stance on Pythag is that I still don't know where his head is at, and while he's been asking good questions, he's stayed pretty solidly out of the spotlight the entire day. He's still suspicious in my eyes, and I still have him as a scum lean (but he's not my strongest).

Spak Where you at bro, would like to chat.

My bad, I had a lot more going on today than I thought. People in the apartment wanted to play Monopoly, and I've been doing that since 3:00 lol. I'll try to catch up with current events.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

you say this, but then you're ok with letting coasters and inactives live?

I'm okay with letting them live for two reasons. One is that as the game goes on, we can expect to get more content from them or their replacements. Two is that I don't want to be rolling the dice on JTB / Nabe / Frozen, when I doubt that there's more than one scum between them.

I think it's a problem, but I don't think it's a problem that we solve by lynching them in the dark. If they start showing up, they get replaced, or they wind up cleared, then that solves the problem. Maybe that's being too optimistic- but I don't think we are likely to win if we start essentially lynching these slots at random.

Are you that confident in your read that you think Lore is a better play than all the above?

Yes I think Lore is a better play than those options. I don't think Rockin has been particularly scummy, more just useless. The less active slots, I simply don't have enough information to go on, so they're effectively null to me. Again, I am willing to listen, but I'm not convinced right now.

real talk, could this just be Lore being bad?

If it was just one time, I could see it as just being bad. But they already had a 'hard scum read' on Poyzin based on approximately nothing, which fizzled into nothing in a very public and over-sharing way. Now they turn up with another 'hard scum read' that again, has poor foundations and is not a realistic waggon this close to deadline. It doesn't read as genuine to me and is more just opportunistic. Add this to the Doop connections, the awful reaction to the Poyzin gambit, the questionable reads list, the tone in general which reads more as trying to please everyone... I've played a couple games with Lore recently and it was pretty apparent to me when they were town. This doesn't add up to me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ran / Gorf / Ryker / Pythag where do yall stand re: Lore atm?

Scum lean.

I think there's more of a chance of Lore flipping scum than any of the other active slots, but I think there's zero chance there isn't scum somewhere in the inactive list.

 

[Spak]

Also, the people that I'd be fine with going today:
- Pythag
- Lore

Would also be willing to contribute my vote to:
- FF
- Rockin

I'll be willing to switch over to Rockin if the Lore wagon falls apart, but I'm keeping my vote on Lore for the moment just in case.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I second Kary's take on Rockin. Could be scum, but it's a crap shoot. Useless is a good word for that slot.

I don't, however, second the comments about letting the inactives sort themselves. That seems INCREDIBLY optimistic to me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Also, the people that I'd be fine with going today:
- Pythag
- Lore

Would also be willing to contribute my vote to:
- FF
- Rockin

I'll be willing to switch over to Rockin if the Lore wagon falls apart, but I'm keeping my vote on Lore for the moment just in case.

You're completely unwilling to lynch JTB/Nabe?

 

[ranmaru]

I would like a little more substance, Spak. (the reasoning) Talk to me about Lore.

 

[Spak]

You're completely unwilling to lynch JTB/Nabe?

Shoot, forgot about JTB. I think that we should wait for a replacement to come in for JTB, and wait until toMorrow to see if the JOAT takes out Nabe (if they exist).

 

[Spak]

I would like a little more substance, Spak. (the reasoning) Talk to me about Lore.

Lore is an interesting slot. I thought that he/she (still unclean on that count, many apologies and I would appreciate clarification) was suspicious making my catch-up post, then noticed that Lore seemed to not be taking an aggressive stance towards me out of my huge post, and we even had some nice interaction. Then she drilled down on me on focusing on town!Lore arguments (because I was asked a question by Pythag), and then we got into the mess where I thought she was misrepresenting me and she just took my language as noncomittal. With that said, it almost seems like she was trying to find a reason to scum read me (going from #2083 where she doesn't even have my slot on the radar for a lynch to #2181 where she's calling for my lynch). Her D1 content and start of D2 stuff was still a lot of relational theorycrafting, then she worked off of those assumptions (which weren't necessarily true). This led to stuff like a hard Uto scum read (which is now redacted and she reads Uto as town), and the Pythag/Rockin/Uto case (which was honestly a reach at best). I made the somewhat apology post for criticizing her play for being blind (I felt bad because some comments I made were more terse than I anticipated), but I still think that she's more trying to craft a believable narrative and force reads rather than scumhunt.

 

[ranmaru]

What do you think of Lore's recent content up to this point?

 

[ranmaru]

I second Kary's take on Rockin. Could be scum, but it's a crap shoot. Useless is a good word for that slot.

Doop was the same type of slot and he was scum.

 

[Spak]

What do you think of Lore's recent content up to this point?

I think it's been a little reachy. I've liked that she's been putting out a good effort (she's been one of the most active players) and most of her inital reactions to stuff has seemed reasonable, but a lot of her longer and more developed posts seem to stretch logic to the point where it builds a sort of world that no townsperson would be able to develop with any level of certainty. They just seem off; I don't have the experience with Lore to determine if it's just normal play from her or if it's irregular (but from what people have said it's standing out from her prior play), but playing with that level of confidence in her reads combined with how willing she is to change her reads on a dime (like suddenly switching Uto from scum read to a town lean) makes me uncomfortable.

I obviously can't speak of Lore's recent content regarding my case from an unbiased perspective, but rocketting someone to the top of your scum lean list just because I didn't question Pythag and rather answered his question with my lunch break is honestly kinda sketch.

 

[Spak]

Also, that case was made in the half an hour after I went to work. Their entire perception of my slot was changed from null to hard scum based upon exclusively that case, which I find hard to believe without them trying to find some reason to read me as scum.

 

[Spak]

trying to find some reason to read me as scum.

(Rather than looking back at my content as a whole and trying to figure out if it looked townie or scummy. Realized that comment needed more clarification after posting it )

 

[ranmaru]

I find changing reads on a dime to be town indicative. It is much harder to do so as scum than town, especially on the spot. (Especially since I do that all the time) I think one of your issues is the leap of logic, but lore has been doing that repeatedly. Not sure if Lore would do that again and again after being called out on it. Overall I feel they have a playstyle that seems scummy, as town, and I have played with them twice. (As scum they were much more tame and more like Rockin here) They seem to be more of a gut/emotion player rather than a logic based player, and probably closer to me. That is why I can relate in a way.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Doop was the same type of slot and he was scum.

And? A crap shoot means not certain one way or another. It doesn't mean guaranteed can't be scum.

 

[ranmaru]

I've played a couple games with Lore recently and it was pretty apparent to me when they were town. This doesn't add up to me.

Please provide examples. Curious to see what the difference is and why.

 

[Spak]

I find changing reads on a dime to be town indicative. It is much harder to do so as scum than town, especially on the spot. (Especially since I do that all the time) I think one of your issues is the leap of logic, but lore has been doing that repeatedly. Not sure if Lore would do that again and again after being called out on it. Overall I feel they have a playstyle that seems scummy, as town, and I have played with them twice. (As scum they were much more tame and more like Rockin here) They seem to be more of a gut/emotion player rather than a logic based player, and probably closer to me. That is why I can relate in a way.

I agree that one of the issues is the leaps in logic, but I find the leaps of logic concerning due to the fact that I believe their motives to not be town-driven. And while I agree that they shouldn't be doing it intentionally after being called out for it, I find no reason for town!Lore nor scum!Lore to continue playing like that. I can see the argument of being a more emotionally-driven player (and I can see evidence of that throughout her posts), but you and Kary seem to have opposite opinions of Lore's meta (although Kary might admittedly not be the best source, concerning her spats with Lore). If it's just a playstyle thing I'll know better for next time, but it feels like she's trying to look for evidence to support her preconceived conclusions rather than looking at the evidence and drawing conclusions for that (which is how scum plays rather than town).

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

(although Kary might admittedly not be the best source, concerning her spats with Lore).

As resident asshole, the douchebag generally knows BETTER how the person being antagonized should be responding.

 

[ranmaru]

The reason for town Lore to continue playing like that is if they believe it. I saw the push on you after disliking your answer to Pythags question, that felt emotional and on the spot. I asked Kary to provide examples though, to see what they mean.

 

[ranmaru]

As resident *******, the douchebag generally knows BETTER how the person being antagonized should be responding.

That is an interesting take. Never considered that.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That is an interesting take. Never considered that.

Dont start. It's a bad road.

 

[ranmaru]

Ryker what do I have to do to get you on this Rockin Wagon.

 

[Spak]

The reason for town Lore to continue playing like that is if they believe it. I saw the push on you after disliking your answer to Pythags question, that felt emotional and on the spot. I asked Kary to provide examples though, to see what they mean.

Fair enough, but I found it fairly irrational because it felt like she was accusing me of doing exactly the opposite of what I was saying (like me saying that it her v. Uto was probably SvS and her hounding me about talking about town!Lore because Pythag asked me about it). It just felt like no matter what I said she would've read me as scum, which isn't a mentality that a pro-town player should be playing with.

 

[Spak]

probably SvS

(Add a not; I was typing faster than I was thinking lol).

 

[Pythag]

Ran / Gorf / Ryker / Pythag where do yall stand re: Lore atm?

I'm torn on Lore.

Lorestruck me as excited, and wanted to make up for his slot not being active.

He got a "hard read" on UP and chased it, which he has since lessened on. It honestly reads to me like a convinced townie with another townie.

My WIFOM is that I think if Lore is scum, he would be smart enough to know not to tunnel so hard, as it looks scummy.

I think his case on Spak holds more water than his UP one, but I'm not sure if that's a desperation play or what.

there's a lot of people on the wagon that I suppose we would learn a lot if Lore flips town. So maybe that'd be helpful? I guess?




I'd love to hear more about why Nabe voted Tom, because I currently have some suspicions, but I wanted to ask Tom about some things, rather than just blab them.

(of these, one is a gut, but how everyone feels about my vote on Doop: I feel the same way about Tom's)

Other than that my reads haven't changed too much, though I'm looking at Spak with a side eye.

It's easy for me to think he was just jumping on the "I think pythag miiiight be scum" wagon, because, well it's easy to do
It's easier for me to think that^ because he really hasn't talked to me at all, but then again nothing new has developed on me. :shrug:



Scum :
I think there's 1 scum between Rockin and FF

Scummy :
Tom
Spak
Nabe

null:
JTB
Lore (?) truly don't know.

Townie
UP
Kary
Ryker
Ran
Gorf
Mac


In a perfect world, I would've loved a FF lynch today, but people really want to lynch Lore.
I'll be mulling.

 

[ranmaru]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame Tom You are way over due a prod by this point.

 

[Spak]

I think there's 1 scum between Rockin and FF

Why do you think there's a scum between Rockin and FF? I remember you mentioning it earlier, but I don't remember you elaborating.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker what do I have to do to get you on this Rockin Wagon.

Present me with no other option.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Low key, I wouldn't mind offing Tom today.