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[#HBC | Laundry]

it doesn't go both ways though. Like I said before, art is subjective. I can only rate how much I like something based on how much I like it. There's no reason for me to factor other people's opinions into my own.

I don't like the art of Piero Manzoni, Marcel Duchamp, etc.

For the unlearned, Piero Manzoni would take his own ****, put it in a can, label it "Artist's ****" or "Merda D'Artista" for you Italians, and pass it off as art. Marcel Duchamp was the grandfather of that bull****. It all started with this:

He submitted this beauty into the Armory Show back in the teens of the last century and it got accepted. This is considered art now. It falls under the category of a "readymade," an object already made that gets chosen by an artist and elevated to art status. That urinal spawned a bunch of others of its kind as well as inspiring plenty of other artists through it.

Not many people like the actual art these guys do. From an aesthetic standpoint, their work is literally **** or stolen, respectively.

But regardless of your taste of these artists' work, this is still good art. Most people hate them. When I had no idea about them, I certainly thought what they were doing was bull**** upon first exposure. But then I figured out their goal. Marcel Duchamp wanted to kill art. He hated it, hated the system it had come from, hated aesthetics, and felt that everything done was bull****. So he set out to try to question the value of art by putting in a ****ing urinal, signed under an alias, to see if it'd get accepted. It did, and now thanks to that, we have so much that came about as a response. Duchamp failed at killing art, but he damn well succeeded at provoking it and very much changed it in his own regards. Without Duchamp, we wouldn't have artists like Cage, Rauschenberg, Jasper Johns, Manzoni even, as well as conceptual art, performance arts, and other things that didn't fit into the definition of it. If there are times where you look in a museum and are questioning why something that's not a painting/drawing/sculpture of accepted materials is considered art, you have Duchamp to thank for that. If he isn't a good artist, in your eyes, he's at the very least important and there's no denying that.

That's why, while I can hate Fountain and Merda d'Artista all I want from an aesthetic standpoint, I can still love and appreciate what they stand for and what they did for artists and art as a whole.

Don't be so close-minded. Your subjective tastes don't define whether art is good or not.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I don't even know how to answer that. My subjective tastes do not define what is good or not, but they are literally the very definition of what I think is good. I'm not gonna label something "good" when I don't think it's good, just because somebody else might think it's good. If someone else thinks it's good, they're free to label it "good" for themselves, but I can only rate things based on my own opinions. That's not "close minded", that's just honest.

 

[Gova]

Regardless, the point is your Picasso comment is bull****.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Sounds like you're biased. Art is something to be interpreted, not judged.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

How does anything I've said make me biased? I'm not the one who said Majora's Mask is bad because some people can't handle the 3day time limit. I haven't poo poo'd anything.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I don't even know how to answer that. My subjective tastes do not define what is good or not, but they are literally the very definition of what I think is good. I'm not gonna label something "good" when I don't think it's good, just because somebody else might think it's good. If someone else thinks it's good, they're free to label it "good" for themselves, but I can only rate things based on my own opinions. That's not "close minded", that's just honest.

There's a difference between something being flat-out good and liking it. For example, I like Luminous Arc but I recognize that's a ****ty SRPG and that I could have as good as, if not a better time, playing Fire Emblem (even though I feel as if Luminous Arc's characters are more memorable to me than any of FE10's were, but I digress). I do not like WoW, never have tried it and I never have wanted to. I cannot deny it's a good game and the biggest MMO of all-time thus far (really its only competitor now might be EVE, I guess). Just because I don't like it doesn't make it a bad game. It just means I don't like it.

EDIT: FOR THE RECORD I am not saying MM is bad. I think it's great, honestly, and that it's equal to OoT in my personal rankings of Zelda games. I was just simply saying that the 3 day time limit turned me off for awhile and it does act as a barrier to some gamers because of its nature to reset some progress.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I get what you're saying. The movie Commando (staring Arnold Swarzenegger) is a terrible movie, and I recognize that. It's got cheesy dialogue, one dimensional characters that do things that don't make sense, and a generic plot, but I love the crap out of it. I am thoroughly entertained by this movie, and even though I recognize that it's bad, I still like it.

But the fact that it's a bad movie has never stopped me from liking it. I never said "I think other people are not capable of getting past the things that could be considered it's flaws, therefore I will choose to dislike it." If you asked me to rate "Favorite/Best Arnie movies", Commando would be way way up there at like #2 or 3.

If that makes me biased, then I don't really give a ****. I like what I like, and whether or not it's "good" does not matter to me.

 

[Kantrip]

I acknowledge when country singers have talent and can define them as "good", even if I personally don't care for their style of music. I can objectively assess their talent while still having a subjective opinion on their appeal to me as an individual.

This is true of art, this is true of games, and this is true of most things, really.

Good is not subjective.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

but "best" is. It ultimately comes down to "well I think all of these things are 'good', but I like this one best."

 

[Kantrip]

No, it's not. In most cases it's just the criteria that is too ambiguous and unspecific, which causes people to create their own definitions of what makes something the "best".

At this point, it's the criteria that are subjective but not the word "best" itself. It's just difficult to work with absolutes at the best of times.

 

[ranmaru]

Who cares let's all play LoL and chug beer smoke weed eat cheetos laugh and live.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I've never played LoL
It's been awhile since I chugged a beer
It's been years since I smoked weed
It's actually been quite a long time since I had cheetos either, oddly enough
I do my fair share of laughing and living though.

Yo Ran we should hang out

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah bro we should

I haven't actually chugged beer
Been a while since I smoked weed

It's only been like a few weeks since I had cheetos but damn those are my favorite

Laughs are the best man

 

[#HBC | Joker]

omg, Ran we are gonna shotgun a beer.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

radarada smoke weed erryday

 

[ranmaru]

lets do ett

also WL you made me think of Shnitzel from Chowder. "Radda Radda"

 

[Xivii]

No talking about drugs.

that aren't walrus

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I never chugged a bear because I can't get past the taste.
I quit smoking walrus months ago.
I don't like eating cheetoes because I have to wash my hands afterwards.
I wanna hang out with Ran and PJB.

 

[Raziek]

No talking about drugs.

that aren't walrus

Didn't expect you to beat me to the punch on that one.

Like Zen said, no drugs.

 

[Handorin]

I never chugged a bear because I can't get past the taste.
I quit smoking walrus months ago.
I don't like eating cheetoes because I have to wash my hands afterwards.
I wanna hang out with Ran and PJB.

 

[ranmaru]

GUYS I ****ING GOT MY LICENSE TODAY I AM SO ****ING GLAD THIS DRIVING LESSON **** IS OVER YES GOT IT

AND TO THINK I WAS PLAYING SOME MAFIA LAST NIGHT OOOF

Dgames is the FIRST to know besides the people who gave me lessons

my mom/fam is next, they aren't here they would be first **** YEAH

 

[Handorin]

Hotlinking disabled? Gah. Eating Cheetos with chopsticks is apparently too mind blowing to have a picture of.

 

[Raziek]

Congrats Ran!

 

[ranmaru]

Thanks bro!

And yeah swords we should all hang and just play vidya games all day

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I never chugged a bear because I can't get past the taste.
I quit smoking walrus months ago.
I don't like eating cheetoes because I have to wash my hands afterwards.
I wanna hang out with Ran and PJB.

I dunno what "bear" tastes like, but beer is delicious. It's definitely an acquired taste though, and nobody I know who drinks prefers beer over liquor except for me.

 

[ranmaru]

I'd prolly love to have some budweiser cuz it smells so damn good

also I'm thinking of reflecting on exactly how my driving test went, I thought I might have failed for a little thing but it seemed I did very well. lmao

I was so ****ing stressed I was hating this week and i'm so glad it's over

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I failed my first driving test, but I think MI is kind of a *****. Got it the second time around no problem, once I knew what dumb things they were gonna grade me on. I really don't think my driver's training prepared me for the test as much as it just prepared me for actually driving.

 

[ranmaru]

I think my driving lessons were more focused on the test and teaching me how to pass the test instead of actually driving. But I really needed to know what the parking and the turning basically. (They knew what the instructors would do) Sometimes the instructors would say things differently to trip you up, like saying "go around the corner" instead of saying "turn right" because you wouldn't be thinking "turn right" when they say "go around the curve". THey also tripped me up a little because the instructor told me to do the signals and stuff from outside the car instead of inside. I was like "they would".

I failed my first test as well in Florida, but that was because I was unprepared. I also touched a cone. lol

 

[#HBC | Joker]

if we're talking about parallel parking, I actually touched a cone on my second test, but not on my first. I really don't think they give a **** if you can parallel park or not.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Cones?
Crazy America.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

they set up a course of orange cones for you to do your parking test. Why is that weird? people screw it up all the time, so why would they wanna make you do it for real and hit a bunch of stuff?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

While I can maybe understand that mentality: in Ontario you've already been driving for a year before you take your first simple road test, or eight months after a driver training program. This test lasts 5-10 minutes. Then you take a second, more complicated road test after another minimum of a year, and after passing that you get your full licence. If you screw either of these up by say, hitting a car or pedestrian, it's because You Are Not A Good Driver, and you're naturally liable for the damage you've caused.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

burning bush ftw

i hate readymades

 

[ranmaru]

I couldn't wait a year. I had to do the test within a year. My permit would expire within a year, and was made of paper.

In Florida it wasn't parallel parking. Just turn left into the cones. I made it. But getting out was the problem.

I did the parallel parking just fine. In fact, some girl walked behind the car while I was parallel parking. The instructor was shocked, yet I was cautious enough to wait.

Consider that I don't even like driving. It'll only be a convenience for me to get around. And busses are tiring to wait for.

 

[ranmaru]

Another reason why I'm glad: If I failed I would have to spread out more driving lessons, $60 a piece and that's just a waste of more money.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I failed my first driving test, but I think MI is kind of a *****. Got it the second time around no problem, once I knew what dumb things they were gonna grade me on. I really don't think my driver's training prepared me for the test as much as it just prepared me for actually driving.

I agree completely with this.

I remember getting my driver's permit several years ago. The process of getting was literally just taking an online multiple choice test consisting of ridiculously easy questions (stuff like showing you a picture of a stop sign and asking you what it means) o ridiculously hard and useless (like asking you how big a bumper on a truck is legally allowed to be). The drivers test itself was simply just driving around a parking lot following the orders of the instructor. What you have to do is fair enough considering that I imagine you'll probably have to do those things some time in your life, but like you said, it's not near close enough to the real experience of actually being out in traffic. I think that most of my driving skills came from actually driving around.

Also PJB I'm dyslexic as **** (kinda). I make some weird typing errors from time to time. For example, I've caught myself several times typing out the word "two" when I meant to use the word "to."

 

[ranmaru]

In Florida they were using a lot, and I assume it's the one in Orlando or Kissimee.

Here there was just a parking lot, and then we went out into the street for the route.

 

[BSL]

Hotlinking disabled? Gah. Eating Cheetos with chopsticks is apparently too mind blowing to have a picture of.

I've actually done this before and it's gdlk

 

[ranmaru]

Ordering from grubhub. Anyone does this?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I think my driver's training was the opposite though. Like, I didn't know wtf they were grading me on during the road test. Did you know you lose points every time you go through an intersection without moving your head back and forth, making it clear that you're checking traffic? Don't move your eyes and use your peripheral vision, cuz they'll fail you if they don't see your head move. I even lost points for not checking my blind spot as I switched into a right turn lane. Ya know, one of those lanes that don't exist until about 100ft before the turn? Yea, I lost points for not checking to make sure there wasn't a car driving on the sidewalk.

My point is by the time I took my road test, I was actually a great driver, because my driver's training did a good job teaching me to drive. What they didn't teach me was how stupid the road test was, and what I needed to do in order to pass it.