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[#HBC | Gorf]

Gorf, the long and short of it is this: If you think Neil Patrick Harris is a "respectable gay," I'm going to go ahead and say it's probably because he passes pretty well in the straight world. He doesn't "flaunt it." His gayness isn't really something you ever see, it's just like a miscellaneous fact about him. It is bad that this is the way you have to be in order to be respected. That straight people judge gay people as "good ones" and "bad ones." Not even in terms of ethics or values, but because of how we dress or speak, or whether or not we dare to kiss our significant others in a place where straight eyes might see it! If your definition of a respectable gay person is one who basically looks, walks and talks like a stereotypical straight person and never expresses his or her sexuality in any tangible way just to make sure you never even accidentally need to recognize it, then the problem is with you and no one else.

It's like you've just determined what my opinion is. Can't blame cuz of stupidity in this world but ****, just because you're gay doesn't mean you just gotta jump to being the ****ing victim.

No. I don't think Neil Patrick Harris is a "respectable gay" because he passes pretty well in the straight world. I think Harris is a respectable gay cuz he's a god amongst men, he's awesome at what he does and he's himself. Neil Patrick Harris doesn't need his identity to be that he's gay. Michael Sam doesn't need his identity to be that he's gay, and the fact that he's gay is publicity because it's something that's never happened in the NFL. His ability as a football player has nothing to do with his gayness. He is somebody. You know why I hate Ru Paul? His identity is LGBT related. That's it. I respect him because of the fact that he found a way to make money off of it, but he's still just famous for being associated with the LGBT community. You know why I like you and you know why I like Joey? Cuz you guys are nice and decent people. Being gay isn't what encompasses who you are, and I can damn well respect that. I am initially put off by people men who dress femininely (not dressing gay, and yes you'd be naive to say that there isn't a difference between dressing gay and not dressing gay) and men who have a higher pitched gay slur to their voice. It bothers me that a human being feels the need to focus so much energy on conveying their sexual orientation. Regarding the 3rd and 4th picture, I think it's despicable for another person to bash on somebody for who they are. There's nothing wrong with homosexuality, and for a person to spend time trying to say they are when there are more productive ways to spend it sickens me. Are flamers as terrible of people as homo haters? Of course not. But yea.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

The fact of the matter is, Acro, every time I get into a discussion like this, I hate it. I ****ing hate it. I never want to do it. I like and respect a lot of the people here and the last thing I'm going to do is look for a reason to make them ****ing roll their eyes when they see me post. If you think I say the things I say because of some misguided search for a power trip, you could not be more mistaken.

Right here. Stop. I never said you were on a power trip. I said you were trying to establish thread power. I never attached a motive to why you were doing it. Take this post where Nabe makes a tie-in joke to the Ranmaru-marshy meat up and you spin it as avoiding the topic because we can't handle the truth, "Gay implications are great for jokes, but real discussion that cuts to the heart or some actual cultural issues is apparently so uncomfortable that the knee-jerk reaction is to just charge past it instead of resolving it." This is an irrational accusation, there is nothing in Nabe's post that demonstrates he is upset or using the joke in order to charge past the conversation you are having.

Take Xonar's following post where he tries to make a distinction that he dislikes the flamboyant behavior that tends to be a thing with some gay guys. This was your response, "You don't have to like or get along with everybody. If that's not a personality type that you find yourself compatible with, that's more than fine. But the solution to that is simply to live separate lives. Not to stigmatize that person into changing themselves into something that the straight world finds more acceptable to deal with." This is an irrational accusation, there is nothing in Xonar's post that suggests he wants the obnoxiously loud guy screaming at early morning to live a second life or to change into a different animal altogether.

You twisted your rhetoric in order to reinforce the overall tone that you are weaving into the thread. Namely that there should be a greater consciousness and that by paying attention to your narrative lead that this is somehow a better lead. By misconstruing their statements into something despicable, you gain authoritative tone and attempt to moderate this aspect by stating that you feel ashamed and embarrassed for forcing this discussion into the thread. In fact, the only reason you get away with pulling off such ridiculous **** is because the people who you pulled out of context are all understanding people who enjoy the fact that you are engaging in open conversation. There should not even be a debate about this, but my statements are 100% true. You were being irrational at the time I posted and trying to establish thread power regardless of your intentions.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Once again, this is an example of gay people needing to conform to a straight norm in order to gain respect, which is bull****. You literally have the audacity to say "gays who 'flaunt it'...have made it this way more than anything else," then complain about me painting straight people with too broad a brush. If you're problem is with guys who think their sexuality gives them the right to act like an ******* and judge or insult other people (a'la Perez Hilton), then you and I do not disagree. That's just an awful type of human being. But the example you gave was not of that. You're example is simply am excitable, feminine guy. THAT kind of person, does not deserve your ire. Dissecting a fictional person can be a pretty messy task, so I won't get into why this hypothetical effeminate gay man deserves respect specifically. I'll just say that expecting that guy to change himself because of how his personality affects you is symptom of straight privilege, which is exactly the problem. You don't have to like or get along with everybody. If that's not a personality type that you find yourself compatible with, that's more than fine. But the solution to that is simply to live separate lives. Not to stigmatize that person into changing themselves into something that the straight world finds more acceptable to deal with.

How about this:

Overly feminine shoving-it-down-your-throat-upon-first-impression gay guy = juice head who can't stop talking about how good the gym is if you aren't as built as him.

Feminine gay guy who is well spoken and satirizes his femininity with those comfortable with it (because let's not try and pretend that people being uncomfortable with things is exclusive to this topic) = guy who goes to the gym and can find more interesting things to talk about than his time at the gym with those who don't go.

 

[Overswarm]

You consider yourself a SME on literally everything OS

I am a SME on literally everything

when am I not



Really that's a fun game though. Find someone you don't know well and research topics relevant to where you'll meet them. Invite them bowling with your group of friends after memorizing bowling facts and history and terminology, then do the same with putt-putt. When it was created, how much an average putt-putt course makes, etc. Go out to a Korean restaurant and talk about current Korean politics and how it was a direct result of the Korean governmental policies during the administration that created hangul.

Since you always determine the place and therefore subject matter, they will consider you a genius and have no reason to think otherwise.

That's when you invite them somewhere else and lie through your teeth about things they couldn't possibly know about. Take them bungee jumping or sky diving and tell them the fatality rate for first timers is 30%, but the overall figure it really low because those that survive often repeat the activity. Things like that.

 

[Ashemu]

gorf: uh i think a lot of dudes who dress flamboyuantly are just expressing themself because they like the way it looks, same applies to crossdressers if thats waht you mean by "feminine" unless theyre like a drag queen or something

(e: i also know a guy with a "higher pitched gay slur" to his voice who isnt flamboyantly gay at all, he just talks differently bc he can i assume, i dont think teh way ppl express themselves is as shallowly motivated as youre saying)

 

[July]

Hi Xonar!! How are you?

I was actually reading the thread specifically because of this conversation and I was thinking about contributing something but I think Circus has said everything so passionately and eloquently, I'll just say that I agree with him.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Hi Xonar!! How are you? I was actually reading the thread specifically because of this conversation and I was thinking about contributing something but I think Circus has said everything so passionately and eloquently, I'll just say that I agree with him.

Honestly, what was his point.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

****, I mean I guess you just can't say you know something about a person if you aren't.

I'll close the argument with this: Circus, believe it or not, I don't think of gay people as all that special. I was born and raised in Miami, where being the white straight guy has gotten me chastised. And yes, obviously it's not the same as being a black person living in Minnesota, but the point is that down here I've never been handed anything just cuz of who I am on the surface. The world I grew up in has been dominated by what America calls minorities. I don't look at a good person and think of them as a "good xyz person" or look at a bad person and think of them as a "bad xyz person" because that doesn't really make sense to me. I don't see the world the same as most of my family, and I appreciate that I don't. I've met so many deluded white people outside of Miami, and it sickens me to see that people can actually think some of the things they think. I don't mean to attack the gay community with my views, and yes, most of what I've been saying has been stretched for the sake of being able to read it as mine lol. Maybe that's a fault of mine, maybe it's not. But this is how the world works: if you want something, action needs to be taken. Gay people need to fight to right the wrongs that society has imposed much like blacks have had to. Will it ever be right? There's no scale, and there's no real way of determining. If it's not worth it enough to fight it, then expressing yourself and how you feel is perfectly fine. I don't wanna approach the people I find obnoxious and tell em to stop cuz I have better things to do. But I'll ask this forum of competent people what they think about obnoxious people if I feel the need to gauge some sort of group of people, cuz what the hell do I have to lose.

I hope you're not offended by what I've said. That's not what this was about.

 

[Dooms]

There shouldn't be a reason to title something as "gay". "Obnoxiously gay", "dressing gay", etc. It should just be that the person is obnoxious or that the person dresses... I don't even know how a homosexual would specifically dress lol.

You don't have to live with people expecting you to act this way, so of course you wouldn't be one to get offended by these things. I've had an array of people tell me that I'm not a homosexual or that I'll at some point start liking women because I either don't cross dress, don't have an obsession with talking about taking it up the ass, don't have a high as **** voice, or because my homosexuality doesn't completely describe me as a person. I've also gotten the whole "I didn't know you were gay because you aren't obnoxious" thing multiple times as well. I'm not sure if Circus is in the same boat, so I'm not sure if this is exactly where he's coming from, but that's my personal experience I suppose.

You have to understand that when a homosexual is acting like the gay stereotype, it's not always because they're wanting to let their sexuality define themselves. In reality, this is probably how they are as a person in general, and they would probably be that way regardless of sexuality. Especially the high voice thing lol.

You're right. We are going to have to fight for this much like African Americans and women had to (and are still doing so to this day). Having discussions like these is part of fighting that, unfortunately. Regardless of where you have these discussions, informing as many people that categorizing things as "gay" and "not gay" = bad is part of the battle because if you categorize things in that way, then that's what is generally expected from the group of people if that makes sense?

I dunno. .-.

 

[July]

Honestly, what was his point.

I saw his point as being that there are unfair expectations that queer individuals will adhere to heteronormative standards, and that when they don't there are accusations that they are "flaunting" or acting in a socially inappropriate manner. That's one situation. The other situation is that a queer couple can do something exactly the same as a heterosexual couple, such as kiss in public, and even though they are acting according to what societal norms have deemed appropriate for straight couples, there will be social backlash and once again an accusation of "socially inappropriate behavior". Essentially, if you a gay and you make any attempts to show public displays of affection or any indication of your sexual orientation, you are open to a level of scrutiny, stigmatization, and public backlash that simply does not exist for straight people.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I saw his point as being that there are unfair expectations that queer individuals will adhere to heteronormative standards, and that when they don't there are accusations that they are "flaunting" or acting in a socially inappropriate manner. That's one situation. The other situation is that a queer couple can do something exactly the same as a heterosexual couple, such as kiss in public, and even though they are acting according to what societal norms have deemed appropriate for straight couples, there will be social backlash and once again an accusation of "socially inappropriate behavior". Essentially, if you a gay and you make any attempts to show public displays of affection or any indication of your sexual orientation, you are open to a level of scrutiny, stigmatization, and public backlash that simply does not exist for straight people.

@ Circus Is that it. That gays are discriminated more than their straight counterparts. That you live in a society that hates you for liking men and we can't understand your struggle because of our hetero/bi-sexual tendencies. Is it that you feel you're alone and ostracized because we do things to offend your homosexual sensibilities and we should be more sensitive about how we approach topics such as homosexuality or have more chats regarding sexuality and its discrimination in contemporary society. Do you want there to be more recognition of homosexual figures like Harvey Milk who Kary felt obligated to mention as if he had any relevance to the conversation. I still don't understand your point. Do you think you could make me understand.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Acrostic is another person to avoid arguing with.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

This whole discussion blew up into a big "gay" thing, but I think a lot of people's points are getting lost in the shuffle.

What I took from Gorf's original post is that he thinks PDA of that degree (regardless of sexual orientation) shouldn't be shown on TV, and that literally the only reason it was put on the screen was because ESPN wanted to make a statement. Whether or not you agree with his observation really has nothing to do with how he feels about gay people, in fact Gorf is actually on the same team as Circus in that regard. He doesn't think it should be treated differently just because this guy is gay.

Is he right? Was it treated differently because the guy is gay? That's a different argument entirely. We just know that Gorf thinks it was, and he thinks it's wrong. Personally, I think he's wrong, and that a straight couple's similar shenanigans would also have been shown. I also couldn't care less about it either way, I don't think PDA bothers me that much. Ultimately this discussion should've been "Gorf, that PDA wasn't that bad and you're being overly sensitive about it." but for some reason it spiraled into "Gorf, that PDA only bothered you because it was gay and you should be shamed of yourself."

Circus, I love ya brother, but I really feel like dgames is a place where you can put your soapbox away. I love that you're passionate, but we're all friends here, yea? Did you really think Gorf was being... gayist? Or wutever the hell the word is? I mean, we can disagree, but we don't need to be throwin walls at each other. This whole conversation was very silly, to me.

 

[Ashemu]

pda is cute when, again, its not one half eating cake off the others face. not all fetishes are born equal

 

[BSL]

The word is homophobic, I believe.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

The word is homophobic, I believe.

That's it! I feel dumb for not thinking of it now!

 

[Fandangox]

Just came in. Sneak peak at the Sinnoh remakes:

Spoiler

I did not make these

also bonus:

 

[BSL]

That's it! I feel dumb for not thinking of it now!

I personally think it's an inaccurate word, but it's what everyone uses, so whatevs.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Do you literally feel that way?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I personally think it's an inaccurate word, but it's what everyone uses, so whatevs.

Yea "fear of homosexuality" isn't exactly accurate, but it didn't occur to me at all, and I don't think "gayist" is a real word.

 

[BSL]

Do you literally feel that way?

yes

 

[Circus]

Do you think you could make me understand.

No.

I've literally spent at least the last hour or two trying to figure out how to respond to everything that's been directed toward me on the last page without creating a monster of a post and without feeling like I'm further derailing the thread from whatever it is other people would rather be using it for, and I've come to the conclusion that I can't do it. I don't think I can elegantly lay out my points and make you understand why this matters so much if I have failed to do so thus far. You seem profoundly confused (or maybe just profoundly unmoved and annoyed) by my stance in this discussion and I don't know how to connect the dots any more cleanly. I don't know how to make you or Gorf or Xonar or anyone else understand that, regardless of what you would consider your own values to be, regardless of how progressive and knowledgeable you think you are on a certain issue, it doesn't make the sentiment that gays shouldn't do gay things where straight people can see them any better, which is what Gorf's initial post expressed, and has since crept up in multiple recent posts, whether or not that was his intent. Regardless of Gorf's belief in his own tolerance, the "okay you're gay we get it already quit showing off for the camera" sentiment is an incredibly pervasive and harmful one for people in the gay community, and it links directly into straight privilege and more specifically straight entitlement, which I've tried to explain several times now. Gorf's post is a small example of the cultural norm that creates a very hostile environment for gay people, at least in western society, that I am frankly sick to DEATH of seeing. If you don't understand it now, if you still think I've said everything I've said as some kind of deceptive pull for perceived authority or ambiguous thread power, then no, I don't think I can make you understand.

Go back to talking about pokemon or whatever.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

[collapse="Hey guys!"]Gorf's a closet gay [/collapse]

 

[#HBC | Joker]

No.

I've literally spent at least the last hour or two trying to figure out how to respond to everything that's been directed toward me on the last page without creating a monster of a post and without feeling like I'm further derailing the thread from whatever it is other people would rather be using it for, and I've come to the conclusion that I can't do it. I don't think I can elegantly lay out my points and make you understand why this matters so much if I have failed to do so thus far. You seem profoundly confused (or maybe just profoundly unmoved and annoyed) by my stance in this discussion and I don't know how to connect the dots any more cleanly. I don't know how to make you or Gorf or Xonar or anyone else understand that, regardless of what you would consider your own values to be, regardless of how progressive and knowledgeable you think you are on a certain issue, it doesn't make the sentiment that gays shouldn't do gay things where straight people can see them any better, which is what Gorf's initial post expressed, and has since crept up in multiple recent posts, whether or not that was his intent. Regardless of Gorf's belief in his own tolerance, the "okay you're gay we get it already quit showing off for the camera" sentiment is an incredibly pervasive and harmful one for people in the gay community, and it links directly into straight privilege and more specifically straight entitlement, which I've tried to explain several times now. Gorf's post is a small example of the cultural norm that creates a very hostile environment for gay people, at least in western society, that I am frankly sick to DEATH of seeing. If you don't understand it now, if you still think I've said everything I've said as some kind of deceptive pull for perceived authority or ambiguous thread power, then no, I don't think I can make you understand.

Go back to talking about pokemon or whatever.

Never change, man. I feel your frustration.

If you have anything you wanted to direct at me, and you don't feel comfortable talking about it in the thread anymore, feel free to PM me. I don't mean to shut you down, I just think you're overreacting a little. We can still talk.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

for anyone that ****s with battle rap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94EHtvjlwX0#t=1448

why do all these **** know what backyardigans are

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

the only question that remains now is

why is jojo so based

 

[#HBC | Mac]

****, I mean I guess you just can't say you know something about a person if you aren't.

I'll close the argument with this: Circus, believe it or not, I don't think of gay people as all that special. I was born and raised in Miami, where being the white straight guy has gotten me chastised. And yes, obviously it's not the same as being a black person living in Minnesota, but the point is that down here I've never been handed anything just cuz of who I am on the surface. The world I grew up in has been dominated by what America calls minorities. I don't look at a good person and think of them as a "good xyz person" or look at a bad person and think of them as a "bad xyz person" because that doesn't really make sense to me. I don't see the world the same as most of my family, and I appreciate that I don't. I've met so many deluded white people outside of Miami, and it sickens me to see that people can actually think some of the things they think. I don't mean to attack the gay community with my views, and yes, most of what I've been saying has been stretched for the sake of being able to read it as mine lol. Maybe that's a fault of mine, maybe it's not. But this is how the world works: if you want something, action needs to be taken. Gay people need to fight to right the wrongs that society has imposed much like blacks have had to. Will it ever be right? There's no scale, and there's no real way of determining. If it's not worth it enough to fight it, then expressing yourself and how you feel is perfectly fine. I don't wanna approach the people I find obnoxious and tell em to stop cuz I have better things to do. But I'll ask this forum of competent people what they think about obnoxious people if I feel the need to gauge some sort of group of people, cuz what the hell do I have to lose.

I hope you're not offended by what I've said. That's not what this was about.

i've read approximately 0% of this conversation but can you explain what makes miami the paradigm of equality?

also how can you know for sure that what I bolded is the case? Especially since most biases are implicit and the effects of them aren't outwardly obvious...


oh but it looks the convo is over and we're not talking about srs **** anymore so nvm

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

For a man with a Flash avatar, you're slow as balls, bro.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

 

[#HBC | Kary]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF4CWCXirZ8

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Actually a lot of what I am doing for IT does require me to know a lot of general skills, I can't just main in one unless I work for like Riot Games and work on handling problems other players have with connecting or something.

The reason IT is general, like I am learning is because there is a lot you can do with it, especially with knowing how to work with an OS system.

Not saying some degrees that can't be true but with IT you really need a general skill set that college does teach.

Linux5lyfe

 

[Xivii]

Dude it was freaking incredible. I could EE wall how incredibly amazing it was. Probz the best experience of my life. ALMOST made me consider coming out publicly lol.

***** you gay?

Bi.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

directed by

 

[Dooms]

IF U WERE KILLED ASHITA, I WOULDNT GO 2 UR
FUNERAL CUZ ID B N JAIL 4 KILLIN DA BAKA THAT KOROSU U!

..._.....____________________, ,
....../ KAWAII GUN
`---___________----_____] = = = = =(ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧
...../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/
.....), ---.(_(__) /
....// (..) ), ----"
...//___//
..//___//
.//___//

WE TRUE TOMODACHI
WE RIDE TOGETHER
WE DIE TOGETHER

I forgot that this was a thing.

 

[Raziek]

The plot thickens.

As an aside, I thank you folks for remaining civil about this. I've been keeping a close eye on this discussion, and everyone's being good about not directly attacking/insulting other people.

Thumbs up.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

i've read approximately 0% of this conversation but can you explain what makes miami the paradigm of equality?

also how can you know for sure that what I bolded is the case? Especially since most biases are implicit and the effects of them aren't outwardly obvious...


oh but it looks the convo is over and we're not talking about srs **** anymore so nvm

I never meant to imply that Miami was. Everyone is hated equally here.

And I know that to be the case for the same reason that minorities KNOW white privilege is a thing everywhere else: it's ****in obvious in my daily life.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

"Quote = Zen"

Yea but then I ****ed a girl

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yea but then I ****ed a girl

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Bro my last girlfriend was a ****in w word, I banged her after knowing her for 5 days while SHE KNEW I was trippin on acid. The day before was the first time I made out with a chick PERIOD. After that happened it was like yo... Vaginas are wassup.

edit can NOT wait for the infraction I get for this post.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

that makes you a w word