Social DGames Social | V/LA |

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Well, ****. Don't think I can leave that alone. Acrostic, your response may come to you in a PM rather than a regular post depending upon how I'm feeling.

Kay. Whenever.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@ #HBC | Kary Just to touch base. How should I interpret your response posts. Because this is where we "I" had a falling out with you in our personal conversation and got this.

 

[DtJ S2n]

man marshy brings up the coolest rap in the world and then you two are being goofs ruining the vibe and I'm not a moderator anymore and I can't do anything about iiiiiiiiiiiittttt

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@ #HBC | Kary Just to touch base. How should I interpret your response posts. Because this is where we "I" had a falling out with you in our personal conversation and got this.

Well, as I recall,

The idea that Circus is trying to 'spin' things or trying to get thread power, I find ****ing ridiculous. Yeah, he had a back and forth with Xonar, and I don't think that either of them really understood the other. But why you insist on trying to umpire the conversation or shut down someone's opinion just because you see some flaw in it, I have no idea.

Now by all means, if you think it's very important that you play 'conversation police', and you want to antagonise and confront Circus in the hope that he will see your point of view, I can't stop you.

But I cannot help thinking that, if you think someone is wrong about something, you can do better than write a wall, challenging them to come up with something better. You could, I don't know, play 'conversation diplomat'. You could say, 'Circus, not to diminish your argument, but I think you're taking some of these points out of context'. You could be a little more charitable, even in this world that's so cruel and unforgiving.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

man marshy brings up the coolest rap in the world and then you two are being goofs ruining the vibe and I'm not a moderator anymore and I can't do anything about iiiiiiiiiiiittttt

I wasn't mentioned in the rap, that's why I'm trying to destroy the social thread.

 

[DtJ S2n]

You could be a Silver Age DC villain with that mentality and I love it.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

man marshy brings up the coolest rap in the world and then you two are being goofs ruining the vibe and I'm not a moderator anymore and I can't do anything about iiiiiiiiiiiittttt

I can't make every post 'bout rapping, you know
Some things I've got to say don't fit with that flow
I hate to make you shed a tear but sometimes that's the deal
Only posting **** in here 'cause i'm trying to keep it real
But hey, I'm done for now so with this rhyme i'm out
Tryin' hard to stay swag...
in my heart that's what i'm 'bout

#likemilk

 

[DtJ S2n]

you forgot to rhyme something with swag, nerdbag.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

nerdbag.

guilty as charged

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

kary you really are the no-fun police wtf

some people enjoy messing with others is this hard to comprehend? like half the times i see you post youre like "ugh youre just being so MEAN stop being MEAN dwam" and all that with a british accent idgi

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

kary you really are the no-fun police wtf some people enjoy messing with others is this hard to comprehend? like half the times i see you post youre like "ugh youre just being so MEAN stop being MEAN dwam" and all that with a british accent idgi

God took two contrasting moral beliefs that were ruthlessly trying to strangle, knife, and murder each other and gave one to me and the other to Kary. Because both beliefs were perceived to be moral in nature, both considered themselves to be in the right.

I actually ended our personal conversation on a bad note. So this is sort of my fault for being the instigator.

If you actually have something new to tell me or come in with a factual justification then I will listen. However, if you are here to just contribute more of your personal subjective opinion that is not rooted in what actually was typed, then you can honestly **** off because as much as I enjoy not being lonely, I don't like engaging with someone who doesn't actually argue based on the words written.

 

[Xivii]

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

what is that even from dont make me so curious

well seeing as its a zen project it'll never be completed and released but

 

[Xivii]

aaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

also is insufficient data an attribute or do you have insufficient data on his attributes?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

also is insufficient data an attribute or do you have insufficient data on his attributes?

99.9% sure it's the latter. I never had a distinct play style that stood out. I never emphasized cooperation or reaching out to other players. I was only interested in being in the game to make reads. Whether I could convince other people to listen to me was the second half of mafia that I didn't find engaging and basically never tried to engage in. Also when I started working a lot of hours, I just didn't play for like four days straight and just did lame catch up posts i.e. Gova mafia.

 

[Xivii]

It is the latter.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

99.9% sure it's the latter.

It is the latter.

i mean i couldnt know i had insufficient data

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

99.9% sure it's the latter. I never had a distinct play style that stood out. I never emphasized cooperation or reaching out to other players. I was only interested in being in the game to make reads. Whether I could convince other people to listen to me was the second half of mafia that I didn't find engaging and basically never tried to engage in. Also when I started working a lot of hours, I just didn't play for like four days straight and just did lame catch up posts i.e. Gova mafia.

I wasn't a good player.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

its ok having to convince people is one of the main reasons i quit too bby dw

 

[Dooms]

Well, ****. Don't think I can leave that alone. Acrostic, your response may come to you in a PM rather than a regular post depending upon how I'm feeling.

I hate to be that guy... but I REALLY wanna see this.

I'm actually learning a lot from the conversation you've had in this thread which is further developing how I would personally want to respond to people with regards to this topic. If you give him a response via PM, may I see it as well? I'm sorry, and I'll completely understand if you say no lol.

 

[ranmaru]

i loved having acro do catch up posts and analyzing people with avatar that makes me go "god he so town I wanna cuddle"

 

[Gova]

99.9% sure it's the latter. I never had a distinct play style that stood out. I never emphasized cooperation or reaching out to other players. I was only interested in being in the game to make reads. Whether I could convince other people to listen to me was the second half of mafia that I didn't find engaging and basically never tried to engage in. Also when I started working a lot of hours, I just didn't play for like four days straight and just did lame catch up posts i.e. Gova mafia.

k, i don't play like that but whatever.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

****

i just discovered that the new season of the boondocks started a lil bit ago

and warez-bb is ****ing offline

and i can't torrent cuz this hostel's internet blocks torrenting

WOE IS ME

 

[BSL]

Oh, Ramses, congrats, that avatar is immortalized in the rap.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

The only reference I got in the end was thru brads avatar ;-;
Ty based senpai

 

[Circus]

Okay, let's open up this wound before it even gets a chance to scar.

Again. I don't understand. Who cares if you create a monster post. I believe that you are obligated to create as many as needed in order to fight the stimulus that society treats homosexuals like they are monsters. Do you really think we only care to read Evil Eye's walls because we value a long post about mafia reads over a Circus wall about the inequality and injustice homosexuals go up against on a daily basis. That's shallow. Why would you be concerned about me being slightly inconvenienced. My entire life is an inconvenience. The whole purpose of protest and enlightenment is to enrich a society that has conveniently inconvenienced an established group of people. What else would we be using this thread for. Also I don't think anyone asked for you to be elegant or a proficient conversationalist. If you think that I was offended by you being irrational, I wasn't. However, I had to say it because you were doing it and by **** spinning you lost the ability to make an appeal for your case on a logical and rationale field of play. In other words, you were shooting yourself in the foot and then blaming everyone else for not empathizing about the foot you just shot with your own hands.

Forgive me. After pages of arguing my point and gaining no ground with the people I was primarily talking to, with much of the sideline commentary implying or straight up telling me that I was wasting my time, I didn't really feel encouraged to keep going.

Allow me to try again.

I can't be annoyed by your stance when I don't understand what your stance is in the first place. What you need to understand is that I'm a simple person. If you told me that there is sexism in the military and this is demonstrated because women are restricted from working in specifically combat designated jobs then I will agree with the sentiment that it can be considered sexism because men and women aren't given the same employment options. However, when you tell me that Nabe making a joke about marshy-Ranmaru is somehow conducive to your stance or that Xonar being annoyed by a person screaming at early morning is also conducive to your stance then I don't understand how these two distinctly different events that simply occurred consecutively are tied into an actual stance that you hold which had been coincidentally triggered by two separate posters. One making a passing joke and another talking about a very specific instance under very specific conditions. Note that the fact that you spun Xonar's post into having someone take on a 'separate life / identity' is what triggered me to start interjecting because he was very clearly trying to clarify his idea so as to not be misinterpreted.

Okay. Then let me try to clear this up by taking the issues poster by poster, then hopefully I'll be able to tie them up at the end. I'll just say now that you seem to have severely misunderstood what I was saying to Xonar, based on your wording.

Nabe's initial post is an excellent example of straight privilege. Nabe is a very smart guy. He's not a bigot or anything. But he is a straight dude (as far as I know) and therefor also has the luxury of not really giving a ****. The conversation Gorf and I were having looked unimportant to him, whether it was because he thought Gorf was trolling and therefor none of it mattered (which would be wrong, by the way) or because he thought I was grandstanding or because it just wasn't relavent to his interests, so he felt inclined to try to deflect the conversation elsewhere, while making a gay joke (something I don't fault him for as a general rule; it's just ironic in context, and further highlights the problem I'm getting at).

This is a problem because it plays into the larger theme of gay visibility. One of the hardest things to battle about any kind of oppression, but most especially in the LGBT community, is oppression from people who don't realize they're being oppressive. They're not even trying to do it, so they don't see the problem. Steering the conversation in a new direction when I'm trying to make a point is a way of insisting that what I'm saying is not important, and can be ignored. Nabe's desire to read a more comfortable conversation, in his mind, trumped whatever reason I may have had to be saying what I was saying. To be clear, I don't think Nabe did this with even a hint of malice. In fact, that'll be a big theme here. I don't think any of the people in this conversation are secret raging bigots. They're just not aware of how their privilege can covertly, negatively effect other people.

Regarding Xonar. Let's revisit the way he actually described "an obnoxious gay."

I'm just going to be the guy that says gays who "flaunt it" aka who are being obnoxious have made it this way more than anything else. I live in the Netherlands and being gay here is perfectly fine, I can't even count the amount of gay friends I have on my fingers. However, some people are just way obnoxious. "HAYYYYYYY NICE SHOESSS GURRRRRRRRRRL" at volume 110 at 8am middle of the hallway?

First, I want to focus on the first line. He straight up blames "obnoxious gays" for the way gays are collectively treated by society. THIS IS CLASSIC VICTIM BLAMING. It is no different than the following examples:

"Look, I have a lot of black friends so I'm not racist, but I mean, if you're a black dude walking around in a hoodie, you're kind of asking for trouble, aren't you? I mean, you know how that looks to other people."

"Man, I feel bad for the girl. I guess I wouldn't say she deserved to be assaulted. But if you're going out dressed like a ****, it's kind of to be expected."

If I need to explain why the above two statements are ****ing horrifying, then I'm afraid I've underestimated the work I have to do. The point is this: it is NEVER the oppressed's fault for being oppressed. We train black people how to be presentable to white people, rather than training white people not to find black people inherently dangerous. We train women how to dress and groom themselves for men, rather than training men that women don't exist to have ***** put in them. And we train gay people to "tone it down" (in terms of mannerisms, in terms of dress, in terms of PDA, in terms of language, etc.) because it makes straight people uncomfortable, rather than training straight people not to give a flying **** about it because it's none of their business and has no actual impact on their lives. Society has trained us to have these prejudices. That is no excuse to keep them.

If the "screaming" were the only thing Xonar was complaining about here, I wouldn't have much to say. Obviously if someone's attacking your hearing, you have the right to tell them to shut the **** up. But if a guy idolizes Beyonce and is way into fashion ("HAY NICE SHOES GURL" would certainly suggest this, let's agree), and that bothers you, that's your problem, not his.

And just to put to bed the weird "separate life" misunderstanding you seem to have, let me clarify. I meant that Xonar and this hypothetical gay individual who's cray for shoes, should live separate lives. As in, not talk to each other. As in, Xonar should let people be who they are as long as they aren't hurting anyone, and if he just doesn't like them (TOTALLY FINE), he should just, you know, mind his own business like an adult. Not that someone should have some secret second identity or whatever you seem to think I was saying.

I never mentioned Gorf nor did I throw him into my interjection. I specifically said this in reference to Nabe and Xonar. I find it shallow to your cause for you to use Gorf's post as a demonstration of the hostility that homosexuals face. Because we're not ********, we know that Gorf's commentary is nothing compared to the very real discrimination that homosexuals face on a conscious and subconscious level. We know that people would be hostile to each other even if we were all of one race, one creed, one religion, and one sexual orientation. The reason people are hostile against each other is because one person's pain is unique only to them and can't be transferred or conferred to anyone else. Therefore, people can harm each other without having any understand of the pain they bring unto others and when it is convenient for them to treat someone else unfairly then they will do so because there are no ramifications of a system in place to punish them for committing injustice. If you expect me to believe that anything in this thread is demonstrative of your cause then I don't understand what you are specifically advocating, because whatever examples you have used in this thread are too shallow for me to understand through my thick skin.

And herein lies the issue. You only recognize the "real discrimination that homosexuals face," making my commentary on what Gorf said seem inconsequential in comparison, yes? The whole point of this stupid thing from the beginning was to emphasize the fact that tangible injustices like legislative wrongdoings (marriage equality as one very overused example), religious zealotry and just general, overtly dickish gay bashing is not the end of the struggle. Let me see if I can wrap this all up by revisiting Gorf's original posts.

Did anyone see that video of the openly gay football player getting drafted into the NFL? By the end when he starts making out with/eating the cake off his boyfriend's face I'm sure he could have been just as easily casted for a gay snuff film, like c'mon we didn't need to see all that we get it the guy is gay and he's happy he made it into the NFL just cuz the cameras are rolling doesn't mean the whole world has to watch everything on it -.-

As I said. The first segment was fine, it's somebody's reaction to being drafted into the god damn NFL. The whole ****ing cake thing was when I was like c'mon.

Like really ESPN? Couldn't have just left it at the draft reaction? You HAAAAAAAAAAAAAD to publicize how okay you guys are that this guy's gay by airing THIS part?

Does watching two men kiss make me feel weird? Sure, but not in a way that makes me unaccepting of it, just in a "why am I watching this" sort of way.

Emphasis mine.

Statements like these (the whole posts, not just the bolded) are, in the plainest way, homophobic and harmful. Again, I am not saying that Gorf is some angry bigot. I do not believe that Gorf wishes for institutionalized discrimination against gay people, the way some people do. But this is a homophobic view to hold. And I need to make that clear, because a few people wanted to let Gorf off the hook for this. That it was just about PDA in general, or that it was about ESPN's motivations for airing it. But it is clear from the emphasis that the subject of the kiss itself played a significant part. Gorf (a straight person), believes he should not "have to see" this kind of thing. Gorf, as a straight person, expects to receive media that exclusively caters to the likes and dislikes of the straight archetype, broadly speaking, because that is what he has historically received. This plays back into the visibility thing I mentioned before. In the abstract, reasonable people recognize that there isn't anything wrong with gay people. Letting us get married, letting us have job security, not throwing stones at us, that all makes sense to them because they are obvious evils. But when getting into the actual practicality of gay people, it's much different, which is why, even with the limited amount of content in the media that features gay people, it very, very rarely actually shows gay subject matter, or at least treats it much more delicately (Modern Family, a TV show featuring a married(!) gay couple, didn't show that married(!!!) couple kiss for a whole season; they were basically roommates).

If it seems like I'm blowing what Gorf is saying out of proportion, or out of context, it is only because you don't realize how often I see these exact sentiments expressed, in real life and online. If my rant seems like it came out of nowhere, it is because it isn't obvious to you that this isn't just Gorf's post that triggered it. That was just a piece of straw in the pile bending the camel's ankles.

Which is why ESPN showing a football player kissing his boyfriend, even if it's kind of sloppy, should be left alone at worst. It is a drop in the bucket compared to everything else that either totally ignores that kind of thing, or actively rejects it. I've forgotten more straight kisses I didn't care to see than the amount of gay kisses that have ever been broadcasted on mainstream television.

Even very well meaning people do this; that's what is so frustrating about it. As a white dude with no physical or mental health challenges, I am privileged in much of these ways and need to make a conscious effort in order to not be a **** to less privileged people totally by accident. That this requires effort, and that I fail to do this at times, doesn't mean it is understandable for me not to even try. And Gorf won't ever get over the weird feeling he gets watching two men kiss if he can post a video like that and the most dissenting response he gets is "eh, you might be overreacting."

We are living in a very hostile world. When I was in elementary school, I was racially misprofiled and mistaken for my friend who was playing around with a knife. I didn't rat him out because his father would seriously beat him every time he came home with bad news. If that wasn't bad enough, my principal blatantly tricked me into criminalizing myself by having me testify that I menacingly intimidated another student in a knife because she told me that brandished meant, "to simply hold or carry" since she asked me a fifth grader if I had, "brandished the knife." The police told me that I was lucky to be a minor or else I would have been sent to juvy and nothing was more clear to me on that day that there are many things wrong with the world. Even a spoiled kid living in suburbia had begun to understand that he was on his own and although the world tries to be subtle, we are all living in a very hostile and unsympathetic place. I'm not raising this tidbit about my life as a meter stick against the discrimination faced by homosexuals. I think that's ********. I'm cognizant that everyone is suffering and some of us have realized that we're all on a sinking boat and have built a system to justify climbing upon others resulting in the people on the bottom drowning in order to elevate the few who were the first to commit to hostility. For me, convenient injustice is the status quo we endorse in this country.

Just because you feel aggrieved doesn't mean you get a pass at misconstruing what other people are actually saying. I'm not holding you to a standard. I just expect a conversation that has a higher standard than late night Fox News.

I hope it is clear at this point that my intent was never to misconstrue what anyone was saying (and I don't think I did).

In regards to your story, it genuinely saddens me and you have my condolences (though I know you didn't ask for them). But we've been in this conversation before. I fail to see how the recognition that the world is hostile and it sucks at least a little bit for everyone and no one makes it out alive is in any way at contention with what I've said here, if it is meant to be. I'm describing a pervasive cultural failing here. If you recognize that it's there, it doesn't mean you necessarily have to do something about it if other pockets of society's ****tiness have already exhausted you, but I don't see the point in combating it. Even if you've resigned yourself to the majority's convenient injustices, there's still no reason to battle someone making an effort to make them less convenient.

I hope I've made myself clear now.

To anyone who was mentioned in this post and reads it and feels inclined to be offended and post something related to that: I can assure you you've missed the point entirely and I will not be responding to you.

Good night.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Regarding Xonar. Let's revisit the way he actually described "an obnoxious gay."

First, I want to focus on the first line. He straight up blames "obnoxious gays" for the way gays are collectively treated by society. THIS IS CLASSIC VICTIM BLAMING.

I don't care what you call it, you're completely missing the point.

We train women how to dress and groom themselves for men, rather than training men that women don't exist to have ****s put in them.

this is insulting as **** btw

Society has trained us to have these prejudices. That is no excuse to keep them.

No, that's instinct. Stereotyping is ingrained. Stereotyping also starts with the stereotyped group rather than society.

honestly i have no idea why im diving back into this argument smh

 

[BarDulL]

i think joking around with no hetero is a great way to desensitize people to no hetero, in a way (ex: will ferrell, or recently will arnett on conan). like, today my friend and i were playing on netplay, and he's super homo (has a boyfriend, loves the dong, yadda yadda). i camped him as sheik really hard and he was like "you are even more lame than okami. i didn't think this was possible" to which i responded "you think YOU'RE gay? I'M THE GAYEST PLAYER EVER!" hue hue hue hue. but he knows that i'm pretty liberal when it comes to LBGT rights, and we're bros enough to the point where it's chill to be a **** on occasion so long as it isn't excessive. anyway, since i'm pretty sure nabe isn't trying to oppress the gay agenda, he's in the clear. but if he really is trying to oppress the gay agenda, THEN I GOT YO BACK CIRCUS

i agree with xonar that people who excessively flaunt anything about themselves are distracting and tend to be bothersome, but i don't think flaunting in a distracting manner specifically correlates with gays since anyone is capable of doing such a thing, so hopefully people in the netherlands aren't lumping gays together as a flaunting bunch.

circus, i don't think it's homophobic for gorf to say it feels weird that he is watching 2 dudes kiss right from the get go; public displays of affection have the tendency to make people feel awkward and look away (come on didn't you watch captain america: winter soldier?). hopefully gorf isn't actually homophobic tho cause that'd be kinda lame.

impartially yours,
bardull

p.s. ya'll stole the hype from marshy's rap vid, except i'm actually ok with that since i wasn't included in it Kappa

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

i agree with xonar that people who excessively flaunt anything about themselves are distracting and tend to be bothersome, but i don't think flaunting in a distracting manner specifically correlates with gays since anyone is capable of doing such a thing, so hopefully people in the netherlands aren't lumping gays together as a flaunting bunch.

http://bit.ly/1iX2GJ3

 

[Gova]

 

[Ashemu]

i like how teh comments section negates any potential message this video could have had entirely, disgusting

my fault for reading youtube comments tho i guess #VictimBlaming101

 

[Ashemu]

i dunno if i should step in2 this since im not a big socal justice argument's person (+ im hardly oppressed beyond apparently not existing www) but:

No, that's instinct. Stereotyping is ingrained. Stereotyping also starts with the stereotyped group rather than society.

this is so dumb dude, it pmuch implies (as an example) its the fault of women and black ppl that sexist/racist folks will stereotype them as unintelligent & incapable then, a lot of stereotypes make the group in question look terrible and r essentially soft bigotrgod why am i writing a serious pots like this i need to go to bed >_<

 

[Ashemu]

alsooooo: if you guys want to see somebody actaully overreact about social issues which circus isnt really doing here at all theres this player in taht j game of champions game who has dedicated over 10 posts harassing a user and accusing him of laughing at racist jokez (by posting said racist jokes "ironically" no less), bc said user posted an implied "***** please" offhand, in a single post

e: actually realized like 2 seconds after posting this that this might be breaching ongoing games in which case a mod can delete i dont care. but its not talking about alignment

 

[#HBC | Mac]

No, that's instinct. Stereotyping is ingrained. Stereotyping also starts with the stereotyped group rather than society.

what in the actual **** are you talking about

 

[Dooms]

Xonar, I feel like I kind of understand what you're getting at, but regardless of how I feel about those people just being the way they are, you have to understand that there is more to the LGBT stereotype than feminine guys talking about shoes yelling like a 13 year old girl early in the morning. A lot more. These are examples that come to mind.

Spoiler: stereotype

-High pitched voice (how do people have control over this? I don't get it, but I'd love to make my voice deeper and more manly if I can control my voice!!!)
-Dress flamboyantly
-Extremely feminine
-Listen to and enjoy show tunes.
-Are very experienced in or thoroughly enjoy the performing arts (nailed me right on the head </3)
-Lisp
-Obsessed with fashion
-Butch... (the opposite of gay men essentially)
-Hatred towards sports
-Only care about their rights or the parties and parades involved in their protests
-No religion at all, actually opposed to religion in general
-Loves to attempt to convert people to homosexuality (this isn't even possible wtf)
-Sex crazed
-Pedophiles
-#aidsstatus

These are the only ones I can think of off of the top of my head, but I'm sure there are more.

When you say things like this, you have to understand that you're referring to the whole stereotype. I don't personally think the LGBT community can be held responsible for being accused of pedophilia and sexual addiction or the fact that there are people in religious groups that since they interpret their book saying their deity is against homosexuality, we're against religion in general and absolutely refuse to believe in anything religious. Regardless of how I feel about fixing the stereotype instead of accepting people in general, there are just things in a stereotype that you can't fix because there are assholes out there that will always associate a group of people with absolutely awful things for one reason or another.

tl;dr lgbt people can't be held responsible for that one dude saying "**** the satan loving gays they go round and **** our children then go to other gays and **** all of them at the same time rah rah rah"

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

if a girl gets ***** it's her fault

 

[Dooms]

if a girl gets ***** it's her fault

#killurserlf

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

if a girl shows cleavage she's a slut.

 

[BSL]

Gorf please stop you're making me uncomfortable