Demo played (at DigiPen party)! Wavedashing (in Melee form) appears to be out!

[GaryCXJk]

Wait, so can you jump, air dodge upwards, jump again, air dodge upwards and then third jump?

 

[munkus beaver]

No, because you do not get control over it in the way that you do now. It does not cause movement. Think of it as an aerial spotdodge that retains momentum and trajectory. Compared to now where some characters (re: Jigglypuff) use it in lieu of an up-b to gain distance, falling afterwards with little control. It seems that by changing the way the air-dodge works, they are allowing more freedom in aerial combat.

So don't get your knickers in a bundle.

I have asked if you can do more than one air-dodge, but I have not heard back.

 

[Kokichi]

Personally I'm disappointed at the community for all their flaming against this poster. Just because someone gets to play the game earlier than you doesn't mean you need to attack them.

Anyways, thanks for the info, we'll find out more on Thursday.

Hey Sakurai, how about bringing a demo to the public over here in Japan?

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Personally I'm disappointed at the community for all their flaming against this poster. Just because someone gets to play the game earlier than you doesn't mean you need to attack them.

Anyways, thanks for the info, we'll find out more on Thursday.

Hey Sakurai, how about bringing a demo to the public over here in Japan?

It does seem rather strange that he didn't bring the demo out in it's country of origin.

Also, I could complain about us PAL version players getting the short end of the stick, but heck! Look at Australia!

 

[Lant]

Thanks for the info, Vortok and Infil.

Personally I'm somewhat glad Brawl's looking very different to melée, I don't want to play the exact same game all over again, with the significant changes they seem to be doing, I'll get the chance to improve myself from number 2 in tournaments, to number 1.

New players should also have alot more of a chance to get used to it, which is good, it shouldn't be a hard game to get in to. In the long run I'm sure it'll be loads better than melée, you'll just have to get used to the new engine.

Now.. give us a demo at the London Expo and announce Cpt. Falcon 'n Marth.

 

[GaryCXJk]

No, because you do not get control over it in the way that you do now. It does not cause movement. Think of it as an aerial spotdodge that retains momentum and trajectory. Compared to now where some characters (re: Jigglypuff) use it in lieu of an up-b to gain distance, falling afterwards with little control. It seems that by changing the way the air-dodge works, they are allowing more freedom in aerial combat.

So don't get your knickers in a bundle.

I have asked if you can do more than one air-dodge, but I have not heard back.

So does that mean that when you're fast-falling, and you're performing an air dodge, you would basically be fast-dodging?

 

[Mama]

Personally I'm disappointed at the community for all their flaming against this poster. Just because someone gets to play the game earlier than you doesn't mean you need to attack them.

Anyways, thanks for the info, we'll find out more on Thursday.

Hey Sakurai, how about bringing a demo to the public over here in Japan?

Oh please. People are annoyed at the lack of credibility why would anyone flame someone because they got to play the game first? I'm disappointed in you, Mod, for having such a poor ability to interpret people.

 

[red stone]

why isn't this topic modded yet. it's already been proven that the students over at digipen have not had anything to do with brawl yet. the TC's credibility is basically nonexistant now. fine, if this lying poster can make up a topic like this, i'll make a similar one soon...

 

[Darqion]

Oh please. People are annoyed at the lack of credibility why would anyone flame someone because they got to play the game first? I'm disappointed in you, Mod, for having such a poor ability to interpret people.

Grow a brain, and come back. not sooner, please.

The OP had some info, and just as little reason he has to lie, just that much reason do you have to believe him. If you choose to think he lies, you could move on, but instead you guys choose to bash the guy for sharing the info

Lets clear up a few basic facts about games that arent out yet. They are in development, stuff can change. Alot of movies of alot of games, contain moves that have no intention of showing how the game will be, or what you can do. Its still in a beta state, and therefor nothing is set.

Now, bashing a guy because you saw a movie once, that discredits his claims (that he has little reason to lie about) Is nothing short of chilidish banter.

It amazes me (not really) how clueless, and rude alot of people around here are. I know mario, and espesially pickachu attracts a ton of 12 year olds, but that doesnt mean you should act your age on a public forum.

 

[Sariku]

By the way, this is what I'm talking about:

Note how Wario can still waveland, but it has to come off his forward momentum! In the demo, my friend was unable to airdodge in any direction he chose. Maybe that will change when he gets the classic controller. Who knows? Don't shoot the messenger.

Okay, let me try to be nice. This video, was a long time ago.

Infact, this was probably done when Brawl Wasn't using Havok Physics. Yes, I believe this is a Waveland, but I mean, come on. Brawl isn't using the same Physics. If a solid object hits another Solid Object, it stops. Just like in Real life. So if you try Jumping at the ground, you don't slide. You break your face.

 

[SiD]

Okay, let me try to be nice. This video, was a long time ago.

Infact, this was probably done when Brawl Wasn't using Havok Physics. Yes, I believe this is a Waveland, but I mean, come on. Brawl isn't using the same Physics. If a solid object hits another Solid Object, it stops. Just like in Real life. So if you try Jumping at the ground, you don't slide. You break your face.

Oh yes, cause Smash has always been very realistic.

why isn't this topic modded yet. it's already been proven that the students over at digipen have not had anything to do with brawl yet. the TC's credibility is basically nonexistant now. fine, if this lying poster can make up a topic like this, i'll make a similar one soon...

No, that hasn't been proven. Digipen is right next to a Nintendo building, it's really not that unbelievable.

 

[Shishou]

My theory is they changed the mechanics so you can't Wavedash traditional style.

Maybe they removed that and made an official Wavedash you can do, but it is performed differently. For example in the final game, maybe if you dodge and press a direction quickly they will Wavedash, of course they can be hit during the dash once it is executed from the dodge.

 

[red stone]

wow^ what a lurker. anyways, we already have shown proof to the TC that the shine still comes out pretty fast. everything the TC has said can be found in the confirmed techs list. if he/she gave out more info, perhaps about stages, he/she would be more believable

 

[Doggalina]

Hmmm, now it looks like Infil was telling the truth. Sorry Infil, but I take everything with a grain of salt (and I assume everybody is lying), so I wanted to make sure you weren't BSing before I believed you.

Don't worry about the missing WD; we'll find another advanced technique to use, no doubt about it.

EDIT: I doubt Sakurai did this to get rid of wavedash; if he wanted to do that, he'd just change how the game reacts when you airdodged into the ground. He had other motives for this.

 

[Vortok]

Digipen is literally across the street from Nintendo's headquarters (with a Chevron on the other side of Digipen, lol). The demo is in the Nintendo building. If you want "back-up" for the original poster, check page 18. It's entirely up to you if you want to believe it or not... but there's more info. I'll be posting more later today (either in this thread, Zauron's, or both). Even if some people don't trust me (that's fine... I've been registered what... one or two months?), the info will be there tomorrow when longer standing members of the boards post their impressions after playing the demo at E for All.


I remembered a few things I didn't mention yesterday.

Sonic's diagonal kick is in fact his down special in mid air.

At least one of his spin dashes can change directions. I think it was the down special one. Also... it seems to be less prone to going off the stage, as I saw someone do it on the bottom center stage of norfair, and they turned around at the edge several times.

Super Sonic didn't appear -that- hard to control, but it's not like a hammer that kills in two hits, either.

His down smash is weird (unless I was being ******** and hitting down special repeatedly). He basically spindashes (que spindash obsession quote) back and forth to either side really quickly. Wasn't the sweep we saw in the video. I did it a few times, as I was expecting the sweep, and kept getting the spin dash.


As I mentioned before, Air Dodge has a lag on it before you can jump again. I didn't test it extensively... mostly just to see if you could jump after it. So as of right now I can't tell you if it'll give a jump back or if you can air dodge again... or if you can even use your up special to recover after air dodging. I'll try to figure that out (along with a bunch of other junk) today.

 

[GaryCXJk]

So does that mean that when you're fast-falling, and you're performing an air dodge, you would basically be fast-dodging?

Still didn't get any answer.

 

[OmegaXXII]

what!! no more wavedashing!! I'm just hoping Sakurai is taking the time to actaully come up with something similar if not better if he is to do that

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Personally I'm disappointed at the community for all their flaming against this poster. Just because someone gets to play the game earlier than you doesn't mean you need to attack them.

Anyways, thanks for the info, we'll find out more on Thursday.

Hey Sakurai, how about bringing a demo to the public over here in Japan?

**** you for being in Japan, chi!

But yeah, I really do agree with Kokichi. I'm speaking from experience here, as the reason I came to SWF in the first place was that people were more receptive here. When I first started translating the stuff Sakurai said, nobody at GameFAQs believed me. They all told me to STFU and that I was a troller. When I came to SWF, people believed me and encouraged me to continue. Thats why I'm appalled to see that the Brawl boards have become just like GameFAQs.

I'm as tired as the rest of you of people pretending to have insider info, but I always give them the benefit of the doubt whenever there looks to be even a little credibility.

 

[GaryCXJk]

Stop bumping off my question, yo.

 

[jdub03]

**** you for being in Japan, chi!

But yeah, I really do agree with Kokichi. I'm speaking from experience here, as the reason I came to SWF in the first place was that people were more receptive here. When I first started translating the stuff Sakurai said, nobody at GameFAQs believed me. They all told me to STFU and that I was a troller. When I came to SWF, people believed me and encouraged me to continue. Thats why I'm appalled to see that the Brawl boards have become just like GameFAQs.

I'm as tired as the rest of you of people pretending to have insider info, but I always give them the benefit of the doubt whenever there looks to be even a little credibility.

I agree. Hey samurai my brother goes to u mich. Hes got about a year left until he starts his residency. Maybe we can organize some type of smash bros get together.

 

[Zauron]

Wait, so can you jump, air dodge upwards, jump again, air dodge upwards and then third jump?

Yes and no. When you air-dodge you continue the momentum of what you were doing. If you did it while jumping, the end result is that you would go no higher than if you had just jumped. So you could jump, air-dodge, jump again, air dodge again, then third jump, but it would get you the EXACT same distance as if you just jumped, jumped again, and then did a third jump. Air dodging now only helps with recovery by granting you invincibility frames. Its affect on your character is the same as doing an air A attack - you don't change how you are moving, you just do an attack and are locked out from doing anything else until the attack is over. In the case of a dodge, you don't change how you are moving, you just get invincibility frames and are locked out from doing anything else until the dodge animation is over.

This also means that yes, if you fastfall just before dodging, you will dodge very quickly to the ground. This appears to be what Yoshi does in one of the air dodge examples.

 

[King Axel]

By third jump, I assume you mean up special.

Wouldn't it feel a little awkward to lack control of your air dodge (of course, except by the way you're momentum carries you)? It would also make you a lot more predictible.

 

[GaryCXJk]

Yes and no. When you air-dodge you continue the momentum of what you were doing. If you did it while jumping, the end result is that you would go no higher than if you had just jumped. So you could jump, air-dodge, jump again, air dodge again, then third jump, but it would get you the EXACT same distance as if you just jumped, jumped again, and then did a third jump. Air dodging now only helps with recovery by granting you invincibility frames. Its affect on your character is the same as doing an air A attack - you don't change how you are moving, you just do an attack and are locked out from doing anything else until the attack is over. In the case of a dodge, you don't change how you are moving, you just get invincibility frames and are locked out from doing anything else until the dodge animation is over.

Does that make sense?

Yes, but that didn't really answer my SECOND question.

 

[Zauron]

By third jump, I assume you mean up special.

Wouldn't it feel a little awkward to lack control of your air dodge (of course, except by the way you're momentum carries you)? It would also make you a lot more predictible.

I would assume that, like air attacks (which seems to be what air dodging is now, just the same as an air attack except invincibility frames instead of attack frames) you can DI during the dodge. So you actually in a way have a bit more control over the dodge, its just that you can't suddenly dodge in a completely different direction than you were already moving. This nerfs Wavedashing and nerfs using air dodge as another jump for characters that don't have a good recovery move and used the air-dodge in place of their third jump (Ness, Yoshi, Jigglypuff). However, it opens up a lot of new possibilities for air combat since it seems you can jump, attack, etc. after it and are not left in a helpless state.

 

[Zauron]

Yes, but that didn't really answer my SECOND question.

Sorry, I added the answer to your second question as an edit.

 

[h1roshi]

wow, when did the boards become so hostile lol. you guys are cuhrazee. chill out. even if you disagree with his pot wholeheartedly, why do you have to flame him. he is just quoting what his friend said. hes not even trolling. trolls like to flame back and get you pissed off and ****. hes just chilling and answering questions and jank. my god. anyways, im happy to see that vid where diddy airdodges to the left, it gives me some
hope...peace

EDIT: PLEASE DONT LET THIS BECOME GAMEFAQS PART 2

-hiroshi

 

[Masque]

Thanks, Infil, mgslee, and Vortok for your help! Much appreciated. (I'm so glad that I didn't post on this earlier--what a flame war! It's actually rather disheartening to see people so vehemently attacking another poster, especially one with such a calm demeanor.)

(Oh, and Vortok: dunno if you ever see Nate Bihldorff, but if perchance you do, let him know that I'll be looking for a job with Localization in a few years once I get a degree in Japanese. If there's any sort of internship program or something along those lines, let me know.)

 

[Galt]

So, basically, instead of wavelanding backward on platforms, or wavehopping from the ledge, every time I'm going to recover, I just airdodge right before I get to the ledge, and I'll always be invulnerable while I grab the edge, so you can't ever edgeguard me with a d-smash/f-smash/anything but an aerial?

That sounds... terrible. Wavedashing for me is about options, aside from the fact that I also play Luigi and G&W, both of whom depend heavily on it. Taking it out doesn't mean I won't have some arbitrary skill to lord over the n00bs; it means I won't have the functionality which I want in the game, which means I won't be able to enjoy playing the game itself. I see lots of people saying that there will be other advanced techniques to replace them. I say that's not the case, which is apparent from the fact that Sakurai took this one out.

I've played Smash with people who roll constantly. It doesn't make the battle more strategic, it makes it more annoying.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

my only assumption about brawl before i go play it is that i can only airdodge one time in the air, that is my only speculation that i hold will be true

 

[BentoBox]

Yes and no. When you air-dodge you continue the momentum of what you were doing. If you did it while jumping, the end result is that you would go no higher than if you had just jumped. So you could jump, air-dodge, jump again, air dodge again, then third jump, but it would get you the EXACT same distance as if you just jumped, jumped again, and then did a third jump. Air dodging now only helps with recovery by granting you invincibility frames. Its affect on your character is the same as doing an air A attack - you don't change how you are moving, you just do an attack and are locked out from doing anything else until the attack is over. In the case of a dodge, you don't change how you are moving, you just get invincibility frames and are locked out from doing anything else until the dodge animation is over.

This also means that yes, if you fastfall just before dodging, you will dodge very quickly to the ground. This appears to be what Yoshi does in one of the air dodge examples.

Let's say the dodging animation lasted three times as long~ If I jump and AD, will my "flight" trajectory follow that of a parabola until I finally hit the ground?

 

[veil222]

I'm glad we're getting feedback from people that know a bit of what they're doing. Don't worry about the flamers, one is a self proclaimed psyche major who can't effing spell and another is in love with himself, so neither have credibility. I think so far there's been evidence for alot of things being the same, but different (different focus). I think this is about changing recovery/evasive tactics, and going by the changes so far I can see how it's pretty plausible wavedashing isn't in. Of all the techs, that one is the most like a glitch that abuses physics in melee, different physics, no more glitch to exploit. I'm curious to see how tourney play will go and what will considered advanved. I'm sure something will step up and replace wavedashing if it's not in.

 

[Zauron]

Let's say the dodging animation lasted three times as long~ If I jump and AD, will my "flight" trajectory follow that of a parabola until I finally hit the ground?

Yes, exactly. That's what we've seen in multiple air dodges in videos. Your air dodge follows the parabola of your jump arc.

my only assumption about brawl before i go play it is that i can only airdodge one time in the air, that is my only speculation that i hold will be true

I believe you actually will be able to dodge more than once in the air, provided you have enough air time, just like you can air attack more than once in the air, since they now both have the same effect on your trajectory. I hope you'll test to make sure your assumption is correct at E for All.

 

[Randall00]

but i can warn everyone in this thread for spam more than enough for them to get banned

Do it, Gimpy. None of the moderators in this place have got any balls and the community is in such dire need of an administrative team that will put their foot down on unwarranted abuse and flaming.

Omg, stop making fun of me! You were so nice until now! You're mean! Continue and I'll like totalllllllllllly report you for being mean!

I know I'm not nice.

But this guy is a liar, and I don't tolerate that ****. I'm sorry.
Call me what you want for flaming hard, but it was ridiculous to even begin to think this guy was telling the truth.

And since the odds of my being given moderatorship are well past inconceivable, I'd best just give you a big ol' fuck you.

You are amazing. I have never read posts so deserving of punishment in my life. Someone needs to physically shove you hard in the chest; where do you live?

 

[Mccdbz5]

You know something...while it seems very clear that wavedashing has been removed...I kind of actually like the idea. I mean, don't get me wrong or anything, I'm an advanced technique freak in Melee. The reason why I'm happy, is that now everyone will have to learn how to play the game differently, than they previously did in Melee. Quite frankly, I think it's very fun to learn about new ways to do something. Sports and video games in particular, but other things are exciting to figure out about as well.

Infil and Vortok, I am very grateful that you have both taken the time to provide us with this very informative information. Now, I do happen to have one question though, for Vortok in particular; do you know anything about how Donkey Kong plays, or anything about him in particular? If you don't, could you try to squeeze in some time to try and find out? I know it's asking a lot from a random person you don't even happen to know at all, but I would really appreciate it if you could just give us your opinion on how Donkey Kong is like in Brawl. I'm really asking because there really hasn't been that much seen or said about Donkey Kong, and I would really like to hear about what he is like in the new installment of Super Smash Bros.

 

[Nintendude]

You know something...while it seems very clear that wavedashing has been removed...I kind of actually like the idea. I mean, don't get me wrong or anything, I'm an advanced technique freak in Melee. The reason why I'm happy, is that now everyone will have to learn how to play the game differently, than they previously did in Melee. Quite frankly, I think it's very fun to learn about new ways to do something.

While I won't be convinced about wd'ing's status until tomorrow when reputable people play the game, I agree with this. Also, people need to remember that Brawl is NOT Melee 2. Brawl is a totally different SSB game based on the same formula as SSBM. It's just like how SSBM was not a SSB 2 and turned out way different. You shouldn't be expecting to pick up Brawl and then start playing just like you were playing Melee and instantly become good at the game. Really the only things that should carry over are spacing and mindgames.

 

[SiD]

Do it, Gimpy. None of the moderators in this place have got any balls and the community is in such dire need of an administrative team that will put their foot down on unwarranted abuse and flaming.





And since the odds of my being given moderatorship are well past inconceivable, I'd best just give you a big ol' fuck you.

You are amazing. I have never read posts so deserving of punishment in my life. Someone needs to physically shove you hard in the chest; where do you live?

Oh yes, because the appropriate response to flaming is to flame. And I love how you got around the censor by using a different font for the u. That's at least two warnings already I believe. Hopefully Gimpy will take care of this.

 

[Red Exodus]

I hope they don't screw up any other basic movements. Directional air dodge was subtle, but useful [sans WDing and advanced techniques]. If they continue to screw up basic movements it's going to be very easy to see what moves are coming. Depending on how bad stuff gets I might stick to competitive Melee and only play Brawl casually. Either way I win, but it would have been nice to play Brawl competitively.

Lol SiD, I think he'd get 3 for asking the guy where he lives.

 

[SiD]

Red Exodus, honestly, this sounds way more useful than the old airdodge, save wavedashing. There is still DI, jumping after air dodges, plenty of different things you can do in the air. It's not screwed up necessarily, just different.

 

[BentoBox]

People are so quick at dismissing all the new possibilities that will come along with the new and improved physics and keep looking at it as if all the devs ever did was remove elements from Melee without ever adding anything. Such a mindset is sad to witness. They removed directional airdodging; they've improved aerial combat in ways already explained and acknowledged by all, and people are STILL whining about how they screwed things up and removed depth from the game? Please do explain.

 

[Red Exodus]

I haven't decided how I'll play Brawl yet, I might end up playing competitively after getting my own copy and playing the game for a couple hours but for now I'm going to think about Brawl from a casual perspective and whatever happens in the end will be a win either way.

I don't like disappointments so by not expecting anything I avoid any letdowns.


Bento if you're talking about me read again. I'm not gonna bite you for misunderstanding but if you think I'm boycotting Brawl you are way off course. I'm in a good mood so I'm not gonna flame anybody for simple misunderstandings. Yet.