Delzethin Weighs in on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's Newcomers

Since Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's starting roster was revealed, plenty of prominent figures in the Smash community have been sharing their reactions to the lineup. Delzethin is no exception, as in his latest video, he weighs in on each of Ultimate's newcomers as well as the roster as a whole.

The video takes on a more opinionated tone than his usual fare, both in terms of individual newcomers and Ultimate's pre-release cycle as a whole. Delzethin notes that the later reveals felt a bit more underwhelming than the early ones - as if the development team didn't just slow down on the reveals, but came to a screeching halt.

It's not all doom and gloom, though. While he wasn't the most satisfied with the last couple of reveals for the base roster, Delzethin points out that, in hindsight, Piranha Plant was a pretty high note to end the final Smash Direct on - it's one of the most unique characters in the entire roster, and one that nobody could've seen coming. On top of that, while there's nothing left to speculate about the base roster, there's still five DLC characters we don't know about.

Author's Note: What are your thoughts on Ultimate's base roster? Who do you want to see as DLC? Let us know in the comments.

 

What might that “good reason” be?

They are hard to make work.

 

They are hard to make work.

Yeah, but when they do work, they end up being one of my favorites in an instant (see Ivysaur)

 

Ya know a Pokémon who really could’ve felt hype (at least in my opinion)? Sneasel, now hear me out: Ice and Dark, lots of speed (something we all know is pretty much key to being high tier), a decent move pool, would’ve been unexpected like piranha plant (which would give a lot of people more positive views than a leaked character), and let’s face it: gen 2 needs a better rep that wasn’t made entirely for the purpose of being a joke (although I do enjoy Pichu, it felt like the gen 2 rep could’ve been better)

Considering Sneasel is my favourite Pokemon...I'm ok with this!

 

Considering Sneasel is my favourite Pokemon...I'm ok with this!

Sneasel actually was in my top ten until gen 7 had Lycanroc push him out of it. But I still have a lot of love for the little guy and honestly think he would fit great in any fighting game that features Pokémon.

 

Gee, it's as if there's a good reason we don't have any true quadrupeds in Smash other than Ivysaur....
(And before you bring up Duck Hunt, the dog is capable of bipedalism)

The only real issues regarding quadrupedalism in Smash is two-handed items such as the Super scope and Crates (throws don't really count, seeing how quadruped Duck Hunt simply uses his mouth to grab and throw). Crates are the easier of the two, a quadruped will generally be long enough to balance a large object like a crate on its back. The harder of the two is definitely the Super Scope, but the series already played pretty lose on realism regarding this weapon (Wario holds it one-handed on the hilt and shakes it to fire, completely avoiding the trigger). Likewise, they could go the route of Pikachu in Melee, having the quadruped get on its back and use its feet to fire the weapon.

It's definitely a problem that requires some creativity to solve, but creativity is one of Sakurai's best qualities. After all, Sakurai made Piranha Plant work, a character who's identity is largely based around the idea that don't really move horizontally. He's got a one-of-a-kind mind that can make the impossible happen.

 

Incineroar looks cool. Although end lag may be a problem...
I don't really care. I'll gladly take nearly any character Sakurai gives us.
Including Piranha Plant.
Especially Piranha Plant.

 

They are hard to make work.

So would a double-character like Ice Climbers.
So would a 2D character in a 3D fighter
So would a non-standard fighters like Villager.

"Because it's hard" doesn't mean it can't be done.

Perhaps I should have said "non-bipedal, then. Piranha Plant shows you can even be a non-pedal and still be in the game.

 

So would a double-character like Ice Climbers.
So would a 2D character in a 3D fighter
So would a non-standard fighters like Villager.

"Because it's hard" doesn't mean it can't be done.

Perhaps I should have said "non-bipedal, then. Piranha Plant shows you can even be a non-pedal and still be in the game.

And we have Ivysaur.

But that doesn't mean we should get more 2D, quadruped or two-in-one fighters.

 

But that doesn't mean we should get more 2D, quadruped or two-in-one fighters.

Compared to how many spikey-haired sword users, yes. Yes we should have more of those non-traditional setups.

 

Compared to how many spikey-haired sword users, yes. Yes we should have more of those non-traditional setups.

...and we are getting them. It's not like standing on your two legs make you a traditional fighter. Does getting a character on its fours really going to cure the wound in your heart opened by anime swordsmen?

 

Yeah, the reason Incineroar doesn't look right is because you've been completely closed minded about the idea since Day 1 while overglorifying other options, especially the ones that you PERSONALLY wanted the most.

Going to level with you, Delz. I have absolutely no sympathy for your disappointment.
I would if you actually bothered to give Incineroar a fair shot, but your attitude has ALWAYS been
"Eww no, why do people even entertain the idea, LOOK AT DIS DOG DAMMIT!!!"

You outright refused to feature Incineroar on your videos or even TRIED to look into how it can work. Just because "it has nothing unique".
And then you go for a video on a Fire Pokémon without any shot in Hell, Delphox. Because OMG SO UNIQUE UNLIKE INCINEROAR AMIRITE?!

Even post-reveal, where most have made a 180 on Incineroar due to actually being an interesting fighter unlike what they previously thought, you STILL want to discredit it because its "too similar to what we already have", when we have NO ONE who fights like Incineroar in Smash but Incineroar.

You have done nothing but ATTACK the idea and go out of your way to tear it down any chance you got while shoving Lycanroc down our throats because the dog was the one you personally wanted the most.

So yeah, you have every right to be disappointed....but you honestly have no one to blame but yourself for it all and actually deserve it.
Let Incineroar be a lesson to you to actually be open-minded instead of letting your personal bias cloud judgments.

The worst part about Incineroar is that he is not Decidueye.

 

I get his points and it's understandable to be disappointed. I loved the Roster with just the Belmonts and K. Rool. The fact that we got even more beyond those is amazing.

 

I mean, Delzethin is probably mostly disappointed it was Incineroar over Lycanroc, which, I mean, that's fine, but I don't think they're as controversial as they're being made out to be.

 

...and we are getting them. It's not like standing on your two legs make you a traditional fighter. Does getting a character on its fours really going to cure the wound in your heart opened by anime swordsmen?

What do have against quadrupeds? Just curious, as it seems that you want the 50% anime swordsmen roster as opposed to everyone being a unique and interesting character.

 

What do have against quadrupeds? Just curious, as it seems that you want the 50% anime swordsmen roster as opposed to everyone being a unique and interesting character.

"How to Get Ignored 101"

 

The worst part about Incineroar is that he is not Decidueye.

Cry some more, fresh meat.

 

Cry some more, fresh meat.

Request denied. I will leave the crying to you. You are probably better at it, considering how easily you get upset by anything that even resembles critique of Incineroar.

 

Request denied. I will leave the crying to you. You are probably better at it, considering how easily you get upset by anything that even resembles critique of Incineroar.

Most critique around Incineroar revolves around “He’s not X Pokemon.”

 

Most critique around Incineroar revolves around “He’s not X Pokemon.”

And anyone who makes that sort of critique, let alone create an account just to make said critique is nothing but a whiny mouth breather that wastes up our precious oxygen.

 

And anyone who makes that sort of critique, let alone create an account just to make said critique is nothing but a whiny mouth breather that wastes up our precious oxygen.

I did not make an account just to make that critique. That post just happened to be my first post by coincidence. Did you make your account just to make whatever your first post was?

But I did offer that critique. So does that make me a waste of oxygen because I have favorites and make it obvious that I do? Or does it make me waste of oxygen because those favorites do not include Incineroar? Can you go into more detail why stating that I had preferred Decidueye makes me such a horrible person?

 

Drop it guys. If you don’t have anything nice to say, keep it to yourself. There’s no reason for the hostility and charactershaming.

 

Most critique around Incineroar revolves around “He’s not X Pokemon.”

That is not weird. Many expected that there was going to be a new Pokemon and with so many options to choose from chances were that every single Pokemon they could have gone with would disappoint most people. Personally I am not even that disappointed since I did not expect any of my most favorite Pokemon to be included as newcomer anyway.

 

That is not weird. Many expected that there was going to be a new Pokemon and with so many options to choose from chances were that every single Pokemon they could have gone with would disappoint most people. Personally I am not even that disappointed since I did not expect any of my most favorite Pokemon to be included as newcomer anyway.

I can understand that. As the speculation cycle of both Sun and Moon and Smash has shown me, not everyone will be excited for Incineroar, and I suppose I can’t change their minds about it.

However, I still highly disagree with Delzethin’s position about Incineroar. To me, it simply comes off as a disappointed rant that ignores most of Incineroar’s strengths, stating how he isn’t a “Sakurai pick” or feels “ununique,” even though he’s never even played him. I was aware of how huge of a Lycanroc fan he was, but his Incineroar section was just plain unfair to me, which obviously rubbed a lot of his fans the wrong way, including me.

 

So uh, stating their dislike for a certain character is the equivalent of being a waste of oxygen now? That what I’m getting from this? Sounds like a familiar name from GFAQs, too...

 

So uh, stating their dislike for a certain character is the equivalent of being a waste of oxygen now? That what I’m getting from this? Sounds like a familiar name from GFAQs, too...

No, whining about a character solely because "they aren't X" and randomly joining a forum FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE TO WHINE is what makes someone a waste of oxygen.

 

No, whining about a character solely because "they aren't X" and randomly joining a forum FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE TO WHINE is what makes someone a waste of oxygen.

Did you even read the Dr. Alpha post stating that he was going to join Smashboards anyway, it just so happens that that was his first post.

 

Did you even read the Dr. Alpha post stating that he was going to join Smashboards anyway, it just so happens that that was his first post.

No, because I really don't care what he has to say.

 

This video was kinda uncomfortably melodramatic lol.

 

You know, there’s an actual reason for me disliking Incineroar: He didn’t end up at all similar to his previous evolution (Torracat, which I actually liked) and ended up just being a lame heel wrestler with a goofy face (also his movepool is among the most boring I’ve ever seen, but that’s beside the point). This was the first time I was legitimately disappointed in all 3 starter options final evolutions, and honestly I don’t care about what everyone thinks about this opinion, I just thought I’d give a legit reason why Incineroar wasn’t my first (or even in my top ten) pick for a sun and moon rep.

 

"Controversial"? Really? Nothing about this selection of newcomers is controversial to me.
INKLINGS: The stars of one of Nintendo's newest and most successful IPs.
DAISY: One of the most popular characters in Mario spinoffs and could be made an easy clone unlike Waluigi.
RIDLEY: A very popular newcomer request in the West that has played an important role in the Metroid series as Samus's arch-nemesis.
SIMON: Main star of an iconic franchise that dates back to the NES.
RICHTER: Popular among Castlevania fans and is a good alternative to those that aren't as fond of Simon.
CHROM: Main protagonist of the most popular Fire Emblem game that put the franchise back on the map.
DARK SAMUS: A popular character among Metroid fans; played an important role in the Metroid Prime games.
KING K. ROOL: The main villain from the Donkey Kong games; possibly the most requested of all newcomers and brings a unique playstyle as a heavyweight.
ISABELLE: The mascot of Animal Crossing, one of Nintendo's biggest franchises which only had one rep before.
KEN: The original echo fighter; this guy's inclusion was a no-brainer.
INCINEROAR: The final evolution of the Fire starter from the current generation. People might complain that Incineroar was a bad choice because we already had a Fire type and a Dark type in the roster, however I doubt Sakurai takes type representation into account when choosing Pokemon. He looks at what they can offer as a fighter, and in Incineroar's case, we never had a dedicated wrestler or feline character before.
PIRANHA PLANT: The obligatory off-the-wall rep which every Smash game has had (Jigglypuff in 64, Mr. G&W in Melee, R.O.B. in Brawl, and Wii Fit Trainer in Sm4sh); we never had a character that represented enemies before. Plus, like it or not, Piranha Plant is far more iconic and well-known than over half the roster. Even non-gamers are very likely to recognize the plant.

 

No, because I really don't care what he has to say.

You care enough to get angry about it.

 

You're just going to have to accept that not everyone likes your cereal box mascot Incineroar fans.

 

You're just going to have to accept that not everyone likes your cereal box mascot Incineroar fans.

And you're going to need to accept the fact that not everyone wants the same characters as entitled people like you.

 

And you're going to need to accept the fact that not everyone wants the same characters as entitled people like you.

And you are going to have to accept that Professor Hector probably will not be playable in SSBU.

 

And you're going to need to accept the fact that not everyone wants the same characters as entitled people like you.

What a grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat comeback

 

Drop it guys. If you don’t have anything nice to say, keep it to yourself. There’s no reason for the hostility and charactershaming.

I said this earlier but people seemed to have ignored it. Regardless if your character made it in or not, personal attacks are not welcomed. I will start sending out warnings and infractions for those that deserve them.

 

...and we are getting them. It's not like standing on your two legs make you a traditional fighter. Does getting a character on its fours really going to cure the wound in your heart opened by anime swordsmen?

I'm just answering the question that someone asked: "Why is everybody so negative on Incineroar?" Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I'm just answering the question that someone asked: "Why is everybody so negative on Incineroar?" Nothing more, nothing less.

"Compared to how many spikey-haired sword users, yes. Yes we should have more of those non-traditional setups." This is hardly about Incineroar.

 

One thing a lot of people don't understand is that Piranha Plant was an added bonus, it's not like it was placed in another "slot." It was either Plant, or nothing at all.

 

One thing a lot of people don't understand is that Piranha Plant was an added bonus, it's not like it was placed in another "slot." It was either Plant, or nothing at all.

I love Piranha plant, as I feel the generic villains in games are under-repped and deserve more love, especially considering most of them are more iconic than about 70% of characters on that roster.