Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

LukeRNG

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I don't remember if we answered this already, but did anyone here have a character they wished got into smash but didn't because of bad timing like Rex & Spring Man.
Mine was Samurott, even if it wasn't the most popular of the generation being as divisive as Decidueye in terms of design and stats, i thought that a dual wielding samurai on all fours would've been very unique. But of course since gen 5 is irrelevant i know full well that will never happen.

At least Greninja's inclusion made up for not having Samurott since Greninja is my 3rd favorite pokemon.
 
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I don't remember if we answered this already, but did anyone here have a character they wished got into smash but didn't because of bad timing like Rex & Spring Man.
Mine was Samurott, even if it wasn't the most popular of the generation being as divisive as Decidueye in terms of design and stats, i thought that a dual wielding samurai on all fours would've been very unique. But of course since gen 5 is irrelevant i know full well that will never happen.

At least Greninja's inclusion made up for not having Samurott since Greninja is my 3rd favorite pokemon.
Literally Sceptile.
 

Luigifan18

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I don't remember if we answered this already, but did anyone here have a character they wished got into smash but didn't because of bad timing like Rex & Spring Man.
Mine was Samurott, even if it wasn't the most popular of the generation being as divisive as Decidueye in terms of design and stats, i thought that a dual wielding samurai on all fours would've been very unique. But of course since gen 5 is irrelevant i know full well that will never happen.

At least Greninja's inclusion made up for not having Samurott since Greninja is my 3rd favorite pokemon.
Bomberman, mainly, but Vaati and Blaziken also suffered from bad timing.
 
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Delzethin

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With talk surrounding the v2.0 patch coming Soon(TM), here's a question worth asking:

Are there any modes or anything to that extent that you're still hoping find a way in through updates?
 
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With talk surrounding the v2.0 patch coming Soon(TM), here's a question worth asking:

Are there any modes or anything to that extent that you're still hoping find a way in through updates?
A stadium mode, preferably featuring some of these key components:
-Home run contest
-Target Smash or Board the platforms
-Actual event matches (I’m talking Melee, not the **** smash 4 did where they got extremely lazy and not many challenges were actually enjoyable)
-Boss Battles
Also a stage builder would be nice(if they did it right and included multiple useable components from the different stages in the game.)
HD remade Pokefloats, or maybe pokefloats 2, I don’t care, I want it back.
 

RandomAce

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With talk surrounding the v2.0 patch coming Soon(TM), here's a question worth asking:

Are there any modes or anything to that extent that you're still hoping find a way in through updates?
I’m hoping for more single player modes.

WOL, Classic Mode, and Mob Smash being the only modes is kinda dissapointing. Especially after some well known ones like Home Run Contest have been removed (and those become addicting).

For me, the ones I see realistically coming are:
- Home Run Contest
- Master/Crazy Orders

I would also like Smash Run to come back and done in it’s full glory. Like having players interact with eachother. Online Functionality to allow up to 8 players and some of the concepts Sakurai wanted for Smash Run but couldn’t due to system limitations. It’s honestly a big missed opportunity to not include this in Ultimate.

Oh boy... people are suggesting that Lycanroc be made an Echo of Wolf in the Echo proposal thread.

Why... seriously, just why?!
Because Vulpix is totally the best echo for Fox.
Let’s not go too hard on other people’s thoughts.

But I agree, Lycanroc doesn’t really work that well as an echo for Wolf. The only similarities between them is that they’re both wolves and have claws. The only form that can sort of match Wolf’s build is Midnight, and although Midnight may seem at first to be able to match some of his moves (like Wolf’s Claw Swipes), a lot of Wolf’s others moves don’t really work for Lycanroc, most notably his specials and FS. You’d need to make a lot of changes it happen, which doesn’t fit what echoes are for in the first place...

And honestly, it would kinda suck to see Lycanroc regulated as a clone when Lycanroc can bring a lot to the table for a unqiue moveset.
 
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Cosmic77

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Lycanroc would be an excellent Wolf clone, if it's absence of kicks and total lack of a blaster (or any gun for that matter) didn't make that obvious enough.

Not to sound cocky about my character, but I don't think there's a single character on the roster who you could dump any of the Lycanroc forms onto as an Echo. It's design and characteristsics are just too different to feasibly work.
 
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Oh boy... people are suggesting that Lycanroc be made an Echo of Wolf in the Echo proposal thread.

Why... seriously, just why?!
Okay now before I get banned from here just for making the suggestion its not like I was suggesting him as some perfect echo, just as about the closest I could think of. And to sit here and act like its some huge stretch when the Midnight form does look pretty similar to Wolf is a little ridiculous. In the thread I already talked about how how half of Wolf's specials are just dashes which Lycanroc could do just fine (quick attack or accelerock). Wolf's blaster is a fairly slow projectile for a gun so any sort of rock throw attack would probably work without feeling weird. The reflector is weird but Lycanroc can learn protect so that could work there.

It's not a perfect fit and obviously Lycanroc would work better as an unique fighter but to act like its a stupid idea is not right.
 

RandomAce

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Okay now before I get banned from here just for making the suggestion its not like I was suggesting him as some perfect echo, just as about the closest I could think of. And to sit here and act like its some huge stretch when the Midnight form does look pretty similar to Wolf is a little ridiculous. In the thread I already talked about how how half of Wolf's specials are just dashes which Lycanroc could do just fine (quick attack or accelerock). Wolf's blaster is a fairly slow projectile for a gun so any sort of rock throw attack would probably work without feeling weird. The reflector is weird but Lycanroc can learn protect so that could work there.

It's not a perfect fit and obviously Lycanroc would work better as an unique fighter but to act like its a stupid idea is not right.
I get where your going, but to be honest, I feel that there are more closer examples to Wolf. One character I see is Panther Coroso who would probably be able to move and fight more similarly to Wolf than Lycanroc could.

I do see why some people here dismissed the idea. If there’s anyone here that would know about Lycanroc, it’s the people in this thread, and as said before, you’d need to change quite a lot to make it happen. Midnight may seem like he could fit Wolf, but the more you look into Wolf’s moveset and how Wolf moves around and fights, the differences between them start to become a lot more apparent and the idea starts to collapse.

I hope this doesn’t feel as a sign of gate keeping to you though.
 
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RandomAce

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For a minute I thought you were referring to Leon Kennedy, which made me think "ya, that's true, but I feel there's bigger issues than the claws.".

Have we heard anything about Jack and Brave from the new patch?
They got removed in the patch.

So we’ll most likely not know the remaining characters until their official reveal.
 
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I get where your going, but to be honest, I feel that there are more closer examples to Wolf. One character I see is Panther Coroso who would probably be able to move and fight more similarly to Wolf than Lycanroc could.
I don't see how Panther would work because Wolf fights with an almost feral ferocity (much like a certain feral werewolf Pokemon) while Panther was always shown as a very refined individual, he'd make more sense using Falco's moveset which is a little more flashy.

I do see why some people here dismissed the idea. If there’s anyone here that would know about Lycanroc, it’s the people in this thread, and as said before, you’d need to change quite a lot to make it happen. Midnight may seem like he could fit Wolf, but the more you look into Wolf’s moveset and how Wolf moves around and fights, the differences between them start to become a lot more apparent and the idea starts to collapse.
Look I'm not trying to offend anyone, and its not like its ever going to happen anyway, but to act like the idea makes no sense is just too much. It's just like the Dixie fans suggesting that Dixie wouldn't work as a Diddy echo, just because you think they would work better as a unique fighter and would prefer that doesn't mean they can't work any other way. I mean we're not talking about trying to turn Banjo and Kazooie into a Duck Hunt echo, we're talking about taking a bipedal werewolf who is shown to represent the more feral side of werewolfs and putting him over a bipedal wolf who fights with a very feral style with claws and bites.

And again, I agree it would be a waste to make Lycanroc an echo and that he would be better as a unique fighter. I'm just saying that he makes the most sense for a possible Wolf echo if you were trying to give every character an echo.
 

Guynamednelson

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I mean, sure reflector could be replaced with Counter and the blaster replaced with Rock Throw, but how are you supposed to represent the bayonet aspect of Wolf's blaster? Besides, I would much rather not have the midnight form.

Also, they're ****ting on Delzethin Delzethin in the general thread.
 
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I don't remember if we answered this already, but did anyone here have a character they wished got into smash but didn't because of bad timing like Rex & Spring Man.
Mine was Samurott, even if it wasn't the most popular of the generation being as divisive as Decidueye in terms of design and stats, i thought that a dual wielding samurai on all fours would've been very unique. But of course since gen 5 is irrelevant i know full well that will never happen.

At least Greninja's inclusion made up for not having Samurott since Greninja is my 3rd favorite pokemon.
Not a regular in this thread, but...

Primarina. Having a circus performer with no feet would have been interesting. However, I wanted Incineroar too. Only one of them could make it in.

It's a pity it didn't seem that she was briefly considered, either.

As for previous games, the Ouendan/EBA were so toast that it's not even funny.

I mean, sure reflector could be replaced with Counter and the blaster replaced with Rock Throw, but how are you supposed to represent the bayonet aspect of Wolf's blaster? Besides, I would much rather not have the midnight form.

Also, they're ****ting on Delzethin Delzethin in the general thread.
Good lord, first Agumon, and now this. This groupthink mentality has to stop.

They got removed in the patch.

So we’ll most likely not know the remaining characters until their official reveal.
Good. I want more genuine surprises, for once.
 
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Garteam

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I mean, sure reflector could be replaced with Counter and the blaster replaced with Rock Throw, but how are you supposed to represent the bayonet aspect of Wolf's blaster? Besides, I would much rather not have the midnight form.

Also, they're ****ting on Delzethin Delzethin in the general thread.
That thread can be pretty cliquey at times and there was a lot of overlap between their regulars and the Incineroar support group, so they're very protective of Incineroar. They're kind of like the opposite of /v/: while /v/ hates Incineroar with such a passion that they refuse to listen to an opinion that shows any sort of positive towards the character, the main thread loves Incineroar so much that an opinion that doesn't complete worship the character is met with hostility.
 

Delzethin

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At ease, everyone. Apologies to shocktarts17 shocktarts17 if we came off overly harsh in response--I don't think any ill will was meant so much as skepticism. We've just been on edge after how few people have been willing to so much as hear us out, you know?

Also, they're ****ting on Delzethin Delzethin in the general thread.
Case in point...oftentimes, I've found what you say matters less than what others think you've said. Equal parts sobering and...uncomfortable.


On a brighter note, one of Piranha Plant's victory animations pulls in a another character, having Mario try to jump over Plant's pot only to get his *** bit.

Opens up interesting options on our end, like a victory animation that has whichever Lycanroc forms aren't playable join the playable one in celebration.
 

Cosmic77

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On a brighter note, one of Piranha Plant's victory animations pulls in a another character, having Mario try to jump over Plant's pot only to get his *** bit.

Opens up interesting options on our end, like a victory animation that has whichever Lycanroc forms aren't playable join the playable one in celebration.
As cool as the animation is, I think people are forgetting that Mario isn't the first person to do this. We got Chrom in Robin's victory animation, and while he's not a playable character, Doc is in most of Little Mac's animations.

While it's not guaranteed, I feel like the chances of us seeing the other forms appear in Lycanroc's victory screens are pretty good. It would feel like a missed opportunity if they didn't reference them at all.
 

LukeRNG

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Anyways, when would be the time to announce who the character brave is? Cause we're definitely getting the Joker gameplay in the next direct at this rate.
 

Guynamednelson

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Someone posted a theory stating that the reason why Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt can also corrupt your save in All-Star mode is because there are DLC fighters using them as a base. Supposedly Banjo is who's using Duck Hunt, but if this theory means anything I think a quadrupedal dog is more likely.
 
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Delzethin

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A couple more anime episodes have been announced, the most interesting being Hapu's Grand Trial on February 17th. No one on Ash's team has a Ground move yet to use the Ground Z-Crystal with, so we may be headed toward his Lycanroc being taught one in the coming weeks. Maybe Olivia's Lycanroc using Drill Run was foreshadowing?

Or maybe Ash gets a completely different Z-Crystal instead. Nanu gave him the Lycanrium crystal instead of the usual Dark one because he felt Ash "isn't a Dark type kind of guy", so who knows, they could throw a similar curveball.

Someone posted a theory stating that the reason why Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt can also corrupt your save in All-Star mode is because there are DLC fighters using them as a base. Supposedly Banjo is who's using Duck Hunt, but if this theory means anything I think a quadrupedal dog is more likely.
That...huh.

Hm.

We should look into this. Are there any alternate explanations for why Piranha Plant, Duck Hunt, and Mii Swordfighter are the three to cause the crash? Does the theory that the latter two have DLC characters using them as a baseline actually explain why the crash happens from a programming standpoint? We need to ensure this is a viable lead and not just a coincidence.

That said...Smash 4 did use existing characters as reference points for several of its DLC picks (Marth for Roy, Ike for Corrin Cloud, ZSS for Bayonetta, etc.), so it's plausible that Ultimate would follow suit. Mii Swordfighter being used as a reference for the rumored Erdrick is also very plausible, albeit not the only sword character they could've chosen as a base. And if they're using Duck Hunt as a reference for someone, it'd make an awful lot of sense if the reason was because the character relied on quadrupedal movement. But then why is there no counterpart for Joker? What would explain that while keeping the theory intact?

We need to refrain from jumping to conclusions just yet, but keep an eye on this, everyone, because it may just be the lead we've needed.
 
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Someone posted a theory stating that the reason why Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt can also corrupt your save in All-Star mode is because there are DLC fighters using them as a base. Supposedly Banjo is who's using Duck Hunt, but if this theory means anything I think a quadrupedal dog is more likely.
I'm pretty sure that was just baseless speculation and was pretty soundly disputed by several people.
 

Guynamednelson

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I'm pretty sure that was just baseless speculation and was pretty soundly disputed by several people.
I saw that. I would assume that if DLC fighters are using Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt as bases, they would be separate copies of these fighters that normal people can't access.
 
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RileyXY1

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Fair point. I would assume that if DLC fighters are using Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt as bases, they would be separate copies of these fighters that normal people can't access.
Yeah. I don't think that they would outright modify existing fighters to test DLC fighters. If this is the case, then one of the Fighter Pass characters is guaranteed to be a sword user and another is guaranteed to be quadrupedal.
 

Cosmic77

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Not sure if I'd read into any of this, but I suppose it's possible. We found out Cloud and Bayo were chosen a week into the ballot because of some extra files with Ike and ZZS. Not exactly the same as what we're looking at now, but if the next character is a sword character with a similar build to Mii Swordfighter, I might take this a tad more serious.
 

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A lot of theory crafting I've seen for Erdrick does match up with Mii Swordsman (an all-around sword wielder), so I wouldn't dismiss this theory entirely. I'm not sure if I'd really say that Banjo would be a good match-up for Dunk Hunt as their movement styles are pretty different (I'd probably base Banjo on Mario or Pac-Man). Perhaps Dunk Hunt's base is Lycanroc?

Granted, this all relies on a lot of "but..."s, so I wouldn't put all my stock into it just yet. Watch Joker be a quadruped.
 

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Can't believe it took me a while to think of this one, but speaking of lycanroc's final smash, would it be a direct 1-1 recreation from the games or an adaptation like Incineroar's final smash, and would the name be slightly different from splintered stormshards?

And it seems odd that Duck Hunt, Mii Swordfighter and Piranha Plant specifically are the ones that cause the crash. Although the general consensus given the stats of brave is that the person that tested said stats on Ike said it felt like Sora from Kingdom Hearts and thinking about it it does make a lot of sense. Erdrik doesn't really give off a fast, floaty character feel imo.
Ultimately people argue between Erdrick and Sora for the character Brave.
 
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RandomAce

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Can't believe it took me a while to think of this one, but speaking of lycanroc's final smash, would it be a direct 1-1 recreation from the games or an adaptation like Incineroar's final smash, and would the name be slightly different from splintered stormshards?
I was just going to ask this dude...

Idk honestly. I feel like Lycanroc’s is pretty good on it’s own to not need a change like that. Like maybe some adjustments could be in the beginning where Lycanroc summons the rock look more dramatic, and also make it similar to how Lycanroc finishes the move similar to how it does in the anime.
 
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RileyXY1

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They found Bowser Jr. data with PP's data implying that Bowser Jr. was the base to build Piranha Plant. It's looking likely that one of the DLC characters is a sword user and another is a quadrupedal dog. The sword user is most likely also going to be "Brave" (either Erdrick or Sora at this point). The quadrupedal character will most likely be either Lycanroc or Amaterasu from Okami.
 

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I don't think we should jump on the DLC character being a dog immediately, it could realistically be any quadruped animal. Hell, they could even be Joker for all we know (perhaps Joker has some sort of gimmick with his gun, which would make building off Duck Hunt's zapper a good solution).

Either way, this could really be the break that we needed. Are there any other quadrupeds that stand a decent chance at getting into Smash? Ammy and Lycanroc are really the only ones I can think of. Maybe they're going really weird with it and adding a Nintendog?
 
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Guynamednelson

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Are there any other quadrupeds that stand a decent chance at getting into Smash. Ammy and Lycanroc are really the only ones I can think of. Maybe they're going really weird with it and adding a Nintendog?
Eeveelutions as a Koopaling-type deal?
 

GlaceonGD

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Eeveelutions as a Koopaling-type deal?
I would not survive the reveal trailer if that actually happened, and while it is something to consider it is highly unlikely. There are eight eeveelutions, nine if you include default eevee which obviously would not be one of the swaps, but even with the exact eight needed what happens when they make another new eeveelution? As much as I hate to say it I don't think it'll ever happen though I'd be happy to be proven wrong. There aren't many other notable quadruped characters I can think of at the time so if this theory about duck hunt being a base for a DLC character is true it does seem that lycanroc and amaterasu make the most sense as candidates.
 

Guynamednelson

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They're all supposed to have different abilities, so no.
There are compromises with character-changing alts already. Alph is supposed to be shorter than Olimar. The Koopalings and Bowser Jr. are not equal in size and proportions. These alts are also considered separate fighters within the game's data, which was necessary for Leaf to have her own voice and animations, Inklings to have different ink colors, etc., which means each Eeveelution can have particle effects representing their type. I don't think they should be balanced differently though, that would kill the point of alts. Being a jack-of-all-trades would be the compromise in that case.
 
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LukeRNG

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I don't think we should jump on the DLC character being a dog immediately, it could realistically be any quadruped animal. Hell, they could even be Joker for all we know (perhaps Joker has some sort of gimmick with his gun, which would make building off Duck Hunt's zapper a good solution).

Either way, this could really be the break that we needed. Are there any other quadrupeds that stand a decent chance at getting into Smash? Ammy and Lycanroc are really the only ones I can think of. Maybe they're going really weird with it and adding a Nintendog?
After some researching popular quads in games, Amaterasu is the only one that has a staring roll in it's game who is quite popular and somewhat recognizable: all others are secondary party members, ai partners, pets, etc.; most of which are from third party franchises. So Amaterasu, Lycanroc and possibly Silvally are the only ones with the best chances looking at it logically, but if sakurai throws a curveball then who knows.
 
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