Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

RandomAce

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I know that the whole Mii swordfighter and Duck Hunt crashing thing is up in the air as to whether or not they were used for newcomers, but i can't believe i didn't see it before: if this was all true and the rumors about Erdrick were true, then why did they pick mii swordfighter instead of someone with a shield like Young Link or regular Link. It's just a thought.


I really ''dig'' that one.
Mii Swordfighter seems to be able to fit Erdrick’s proportions well as a medium size fighter than the Links.

Although I’m not a game dev, I think it’s possible that they could use both Mii Swordfighter and Link’s Shields to match more closely to Erdrick.
 

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Well, as it's been foretold, we'll be getting a Nintendo direct tomorrow. What are you guys hoping to see and what do you think we'll see?So far we know there will be new details on Fire Emblem: Three Houses and the direct will run for 35 minutes.
I'm hoping for some Joker gameplay, the next smash DLC character and/or some sort of tease/announcement for Gen 8.
 

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Well, as it's been foretold, we'll be getting a Nintendo direct tomorrow. What are you guys hoping to see and what do you think we'll see?So far we know there will be new details on Fire Emblem: Three Houses and the direct will run for 35 minutes.
I'm hoping for some Joker gameplay, the next smash DLC character and/or some sort of tease/announcement for Gen 8.
I'm personally hoping for another character, but I think it's much more likely that will just get our first gameplay of Joker.

Regarding non-Smash content, the only thing I'm really excited for is Fire Emblem: Three Houses. I'm also crossing my fingers that will see the unannounced game that was teased in the investor's breakdown.
 

Delzethin

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So, now we wait and see what the Direct has in store.

What kind of Smash news we get will depend on whether this Direct was always planned for now or was delayed from January, I think. If this was supposed to be a January Direct, perhaps any segment for Ultimate would've been focused on Piranha Plant, which isn't needed now. I think there's a plausible chance we get details on Joker or at least a render + release window, but right now I think the odds of a newcomer reveal aren't all that great barring another unusual example like Joker's gameplay-less trailer.

Still, though, if we're to have a fighting chance, now's the time. With the greater context suggesting we were too late for the base roster and suggesting Gen 8's characters are still too in flux to have been an option a few months ago, the door is still open for us. Even if only a little, and if an awful lot of other speculators keep insisting the door must be shut without checking to make sure.

Us against the world? Business as usual, right?

I think you bring up some good points but I think it could still go both ways. Either,
  1. Sakurai, not wanting to make the same mistake, avoids planning around any character who hasn't been released yet. This means any character who isn't already in a game before even possibly as early as 2016 could be safely assumed to be too late. However this wouldn't eliminate characters like Sylux who have been in games before but could still be added as promotion for his supposed expanded role in MP4.
  2. Sakurai, not wanting to make the same mistake, decides to reach out to the developers and works closely with them to make sure he has a good idea of how the character would work. This would be further aided by the fact that with the way DLC appears to be working, with them not starting work on the DLC until the game is out, they would be able to wait and start working on the character until after they have made their debut or at least soon will.
Personally I think that I could see either being possible. However I will add that while he may feel remorse for Roy's portrayal he did after that design Greninja using pre-production designs of the character without knowing how his final design would work, this is why he uses water kunai and his water shuriken doesn't work exactly like it does in game.

Also when looking at the case of Rex, I've said it elsewhere but I think XC2 caught everyone off guard and that no one expected the game to do that well so they wouldn't have considered saving a DLC slot for someone from that game like they might for games they anticipate to do well like Fire Emblem/Metroid/Pokemon.
Thing is, development on each new fighter seems to be so complex and require so much scheduling that it's very difficult to adapt to changes in design or characteristics on the fly. Details on Roy surely changed further back than just a couple months before FE6's delay, but the Melee team still wasn't able to take those changes into account. This is a logistical issue we're considering here, a time and workload issue, and so no amount of working closely with the team of another game would solve that if there simply isn't the spare time or manpower available.

Also, the concept art was Greninja's final design, the water swords were actually used in the anime a few times, and Sakurai probably had more details on hand than just one sheet of concept art because why from a design standpoint would you rely so much on such limited information for such a major undertaking? And considering Nintendo hit the reset button on Metroid Prime 4's development, I'd think Sylux is probably out of the running for the time being since the thing that'd have made him relevant might not even be finished until 2021 now.

I know that the whole Mii swordfighter and Duck Hunt crashing thing is up in the air as to whether or not they were used for newcomers, but i can't believe i didn't see it before: if this was all true and the rumors about Erdrick were true, then why did they pick mii swordfighter instead of someone with a shield like Young Link or regular Link. It's just a thought.
Well, it seems like the actual character model isn't as important to reference as the general build, hurtboxes, and very basic animations are. Adding a shield to the model wouldn't be too much of a hassle since it's just a piece of equipment that moves when the bearer's arm does. And Young Link in particular wouldn't be a good reference point anyway due to other reasons. Why would they create a character who is an adult and has an adult build--albeit one with potentially super-deformed traits--by referencing the model of a character with a child's build and proportions?

That said, they could still use someone other than Mii Swordfighter as a base--regular Link comes to mind, who even has a shield too--which is why we should keep looking into this to be sure if it means anything.

I didn't know you were here on Smashboards. Can you make a concept video on Porky please. I don't know whether you think he is likely or not, but can you at least make a video for him?
Forgot to respond to this earlier.

Unfortunately, these kinds of suggestions are...a bit of a gray area. I don't just pull these character concepts out of the ether; I need to have an idea of how I want to work them and how they could best stand out. Who knows in the long term, but I cannot promise anything in the near future. Sorry, but that's all I can really say for now.
 
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Thing is, development on each new fighter seems to be so complex and require so much scheduling that it's very difficult to adapt to changes in design or characteristics on the fly. Details on Roy surely changed further back than just a couple months before FE6's delay, but the Melee team still wasn't able to take those changes into account. This is a logistical issue we're considering here, a time and workload issue, and so no amount of working closely with the team of another game would solve that if there simply isn't the spare time or manpower available.

Also, the concept art was Greninja's final design, the water swords were actually used in the anime a few times, and Sakurai probably had more details on hand than just one sheet of concept art because why from a design standpoint would you rely so much on such limited information for such a major undertaking? And considering Nintendo hit the reset button on Metroid Prime 4's development, I'd think Sylux is probably out of the running for the time being since the thing that'd have made him relevant might not even be finished until 2021 now.
Well with Roy they were also putting him as a clone, so they already were working on a smaller time frame and inside more constraints. And again while DLC is probably planned out during development all they have to do is say "and one slot for a new FE character from Three Houses" and then when they start on them they can go to IS and get everything they need. I'm not saying its a guarantee or even likely but its definitely in the realm of possibilities, especially if Nintendo had more say in the DLC this time.

And if Sylux was planned for DLC they're probably still putting him in, I seriously doubt they would cancel a planned character and then have to come up with a new one on the fly. Maybe if Sylux hadn't been in anything before now it would be one thing but he is an already established character, at worst they might need to retool some of his design to avoid MP4 spoilers or things that won't be in the game any more.
 

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Seeing how DLC didn't officially start until after November 1st, just getting Joker gameplay would be a huge deal. It isn't impossible, but we'd be extremely lucky to get two characters in less than three months (keep in mind that Lucas, a veteran, took about five months).

As for who I expect, I've got no clue. Secretly, I'd be happy with any first-party character (maybe even FE) just so we can dispel this idea that we're only getting third-party characters.
 

RandomAce

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How do you guys feel about Lycanroc so far?

With the upcoming direct, do you guys think Lycanroc’s best chance were to be a revealed tomorrow, or think it’s possible that they can be revealed at a later time?

I always felt that even if Gen 8 wasn’t in the equation for newcomers, it still can affect how they may release Lycanroc if they are DLC newcomers.
 
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Cosmic77

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How do you guys feel about Lycanroc so far?

With the upcoming direct, do you guys think Lycanroc’s best chance were to be a revealed tomorrow, or think it’s possible that they can be revealed at a later time?

I always felt that even if Gen 8 wasn’t in the equation for newcomers, it still can affect how they may release Lycanroc if they are DLC newcomers.
I honestly don't think it matters at this point. Aside from there being one less slot for DLC, it sounds like all of this has been close to being finalized a while before the November Direct. Either they told Sakurai to wait for Gen 8 designs or they didn't.

Although, I will point out once again that we should be rooting for any first-party character. Getting a second third-party would definitely make Lycanroc and any other Nintendo character seem less likely.
 
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Forgot to respond to this earlier.

Unfortunately, these kinds of suggestions are...a bit of a gray area. I don't just pull these character concepts out of the ether; I need to have an idea of how I want to work them and how they could best stand out. Who knows in the long term, but I cannot promise anything in the near future. Sorry, but that's all I can really say for now.
I could see Porky borrowing some moves from his Subspace Emissary boss fight just like how Ridley borrowed some of his moves from his Subspace Emissary boss fight.
 

Delzethin

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How do you guys feel about Lycanroc so far?

With the upcoming direct, do you guys think Lycanroc’s best chance were to be a revealed tomorrow, or think it’s possible that they can be revealed at a later time?

I always felt that even if Gen 8 wasn’t in the equation for newcomers, it still can affect how they may release Lycanroc if they are DLC newcomers.
Considering what we've discussed recently about Sakurai seemingly avoiding characters who haven't been finalized...I think we may have a shot for this entire wave. It'd make more sense to happen sooner than later, to show off the Gen 7 character before Gen 8 talk gets going, but we know full well it's not so simple.

That said...it does seem rather early to get another reveal. We don't even know how far along any characters are--if DLC development (beyond Piranha Plant) only started in November, they may not have anyone polished enough to show gameplay of yet.

Still, if we do get a reveal, hopefully it's someone who puts an end to the theories of the month. It's frustrating, trying to bring up new ideas only to be brickwalled just because they don't line up with whatever is popular to believe at the moment. Heh, who'd have thought Smash speculation would give us all such a crash course on how tribalism works?

Let us hope that we are the ones to defy it.
 

Luigifan18

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Heh, who'd have thought Smash speculation would give us all such a crash course on how tribalism works?

Let us hope that we are the ones to defy it.
The "us versus them" mentality has been known to be sparked by things that are considerably more inane than video game roster speculation...
 

Delzethin

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So, no newcomer reveal, just as we suspected. We're still alive for a while longer.

No Smash news at all, in fact, other than a release window for Joker and alluding to there being quite a bit of content planned for April. Wonder what they have up their sleeves...

Thoughts on the Direct as a whole?
 

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Thoughts on the Direct as a whole?
2.0 wasn't exactly a big patch, so I hope 3.0 being announced in a Direct means something. At least we know when we're getting Joker, and the Switch is finally getting Mario Maker.

Also, Tetris battle royale. God damn.
 

RandomAce

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So, no newcomer reveal, just as we suspected. We're still alive for a while longer.

No Smash news at all, in fact, other than a release window for Joker and alluding to there being quite a bit of content planned for April. Wonder what they have up their sleeves...

Thoughts on the Direct as a whole?
It was okay... but other than FE Three Houses there was nothing I was really excited for. For Smash. We have Ver. 3.0 and our first look at Joker. But, with the way they’re treating this though, and going out to state that details are coming later.

I think we have a Smash Direct coming up in March to showcase it and that’s where they will reveal our next challenger.

Ugh, it’s kinda tiring having to know we’re about to get some juicy stuff. Makes me wonder about Lycanroc and their chances of showing up there are.
 
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LukeRNG

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There's some things i liked, others i didn't, but: I'm TOO Excited for Astral Chain. Fire Emblem really looks interesting with a setting that really reminds me of Hogwarts. Mario Maker 2 looks great and i might try Link's Awakening now.
And i can't wait for Dragon Quest 11.
 
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Cosmic77

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Just as I thought, it was way too early for a second DLC reveal. Though, I am a little surprised we didn't get more footage of Joker. All we got was his model and crouching animation.

Anyways, nothing really happened today. As usual, we'll have to wait this out for answers.

(Edit: I take that back. Something DID happen. Vergeben was horribly wrong with his predictions. Star Fox Grand Prix and Pikmin 4 were nowhere to be found, and he even explicitly stated that a new Zelda game could possibly get revealed, but it wouldn't be related to Link's Awakening. Seems like his words should be taken with a bigger grain of salt than before.)
 
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LukeRNG

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I know i shouldn't 100% believe rumors, but given that Erdrick makes a lot of sense as an icon in Japan, i do find it interesting that Dragon Quest got not only quite a lot of attention, but that Dragon Quest 11 S got a Direct spotlight even when it just was a definitive edition.
Seems quite odd that now they're pushing Dragon Quest. Not saying that automatically means Erdrick is the next dlc fighter, but just something i noticed and would make a lot of sense to hype up the series given it's popularity in Japan.
 

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Seems quite odd that now they're pushing Dragon Quest. Not saying that automatically means Erdrick is the next dlc fighter, but just something i noticed and would make a lot of sense to hype up the series given it's popularity in Japan.
JRPGs are huge sellers on the Switch, so of course they'd want to push the OG JRPG.
 

Cosmic77

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I know i shouldn't 100% believe rumors, but given that Erdrick makes a lot of sense as an icon in Japan, i do find it interesting that Dragon Quest got not only quite a lot of attention, but that Dragon Quest 11 S got a Direct spotlight even when it just was a definitive edition.
Seems quite odd that now they're pushing Dragon Quest. Not saying that automatically means Erdrick is the next dlc fighter, but just something i noticed and would make a lot of sense to hype up the series given it's popularity in Japan.
I wouldn't read too much into it. Dragon Quest games have been notable titles in Nintendo Directs for quite some time. Since Erdrick wasn't revealed in this Direct (which is a little weird, because it would've been the perfect place to do so), I'd assume it's just a coincidence. Keep in mind that these games were being developed long before Ultimate's DLC even began.
 

RandomAce

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DQ XI S has been announced/developed for a long time and just started being shown since late last year.

It’s a version they created just for the Switch and they showed that they are bringing lots of new content and adjustments (like an orchestrated soundtrack this time), and even a retro style of the whole game so that they could make this the best version of DQ11 they could for the Nintendo market.

I don’t think it itself is a sign to Erdrick, since the game itself is already a pretty big deal with how they’re working on this version. And DQ is pretty synonymous with Nintendo, with plenty of titles premiering and ported over to their systems.
 
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Yeah you are all right about that, i have a tendency to pick up something from any thing i find unusual or unconventional.

But the more i think about it, i now kinda want Erdrick over Sora. Just feels right to me.
 

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I wouldn't read too much into it. Dragon Quest games have been notable titles in Nintendo Directs for quite some time. Since Erdrick wasn't revealed in this Direct (which is a little weird, because it would've been the perfect place to do so), I'd assume it's just a coincidence. Keep in mind that these games were being developed long before Ultimate's DLC even began.
Yeah, this Direct was just the right time to talk about the two games. It has no bearing on whatever plans there are for Ultimate, especially since both are localized titles that are already out in Japan. DQXI is even out in English on the PS4 already!


Speaking of DLC talk, though, with things potentially lining up for a Smash Direct in April, now I can't help but wonder: What if we get two reveals then? It'd be similar to the Smash Direct that took place just before E3 in 2015, which revealed Roy and Ryu both. In theory, a presentation in April could reveal Brave and someone else, as well as free E3 up to be able to focus on other stuff without Ultimate hogging the spotlight from Animal Crossing or Fire Emblem or Gen 8 or whichever other games they plan to showcase there.
 

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Yeah, this Direct was just the right time to talk about the two games. It has no bearing on whatever plans there are for Ultimate, especially since both are localized titles that are already out in Japan. DQXI is even out in English on the PS4 already!


Speaking of DLC talk, though, with things potentially lining up for a Smash Direct in April, now I can't help but wonder: What if we get two reveals then? It'd be similar to the Smash Direct that took place just before E3 in 2015, which revealed Roy and Ryu both. In theory, a presentation in April could reveal Brave and someone else, as well as free E3 up to be able to focus on other stuff without Ultimate hogging the spotlight from Animal Crossing or Fire Emblem or Gen 8 or whichever other games they plan to showcase there.
I could see that happening, but I'd prefer they space out the reveals so we can speculate longer. Might be quite a bit before we'll be able to do that again.

Plus, not showing anything at E3 would probably anger fans more than it would if they double-dipped in an April Direct. Can't disagree with them though. E3 is always an exciting place for Smash announcements.
 

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Speaking of DLC talk, though, with things potentially lining up for a Smash Direct in April, now I can't help but wonder: What if we get two reveals then? It'd be similar to the Smash Direct that took place just before E3 in 2015, which revealed Roy and Ryu both. In theory, a presentation in April could reveal Brave and someone else
I think if there are two reveals, one of them would just be a showcase of Joker's moveset, rather than letting us know who DLC fighter 3 is.

Also, about the Mii Swordfighter/Duck Hut theory and Joker...Is is possible that Joker is the fighter using Mii Swordfighter as a base? MSF having a bone for a bladed weapon in his animation skeleton is more important than his proportions, and Mii classes having multiple sets of specials might've been important for how Sakurai wants Joker to play. I don't mean that you'd change them in a menu though, but rather during gameplay.
 
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Yeah, this Direct was just the right time to talk about the two games. It has no bearing on whatever plans there are for Ultimate, especially since both are localized titles that are already out in Japan. DQXI is even out in English on the PS4 already!


Speaking of DLC talk, though, with things potentially lining up for a Smash Direct in April, now I can't help but wonder: What if we get two reveals then? It'd be similar to the Smash Direct that took place just before E3 in 2015, which revealed Roy and Ryu both. In theory, a presentation in April could reveal Brave and someone else, as well as free E3 up to be able to focus on other stuff without Ultimate hogging the spotlight from Animal Crossing or Fire Emblem or Gen 8 or whichever other games they plan to showcase there.
This is kinda the way I see things going:
-Joker gets his formal gameplay reveal in April with a vanilla Direct, which details what to expect from the 3.0 update (Mii costumes, a Persona stage, etc.)
-A short Smash direct is shown the day before the main E3 presentation, similar to what happened in 2015. The presentation starts with a 1st Party character reveal, followed by Mii costume and Amiibo discussion, concluding with a reveal for a 3rd Party (probably Erdrick)
 
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RileyXY1

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I think if there are two reveals, one of them would just be a showcase of Joker's moveset, rather than letting us know who DLC fighter 3 is.

Also, about the Mii Swordfighter/Duck Hut theory and Joker...Is is possible that Joker is the fighter using Mii Swordfighter as a base? MSF having a bone for a bladed weapon in his animation skeleton is more important than his proportions, and Mii classes having multiple sets of specials might've been important for how Sakurai wants Joker to play. I don't mean that you'd change them in a menu though, but rather during gameplay.
Given that theory, it would essentially mean that "Brave" is quadrupedal, which means that it would have to be Lycanroc.
 

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This is kinda the way I see things going:
-Joker gets his formal gameplay reveal in April with a vanilla Direct, which details what to expect from the 3.0 update (Mii costumes, a Persona stage, etc.)
-A short Smash direct is shown the day before the main E3 presentation, similar to what happened in 2015. The presentation starts with a 1st Party character reveal, followed by Mii costume and Amiibo discussion, concluding with a reveal for a 3rd Party (probably Erdrick)
Potentially? I'm not sure we'll get another standard Direct between now and E3, but if we do, I could see that scenario happening.

I could see that happening, but I'd prefer they space out the reveals so we can speculate longer. Might be quite a bit before we'll be able to do that again.

Plus, not showing anything at E3 would probably anger fans more than it would if they double-dipped in an April Direct. Can't disagree with them though. E3 is always an exciting place for Smash announcements.
Wait a minute, just how many people would actually be angry if any Smash announcements happened prior to E3 instead of during it? Hardly anyone seemed to mind in 2015 when the summer update was laid out the day before E3 got going. And from a marketing standpoint, wouldn't it make more sense to leave E3 proper open for other games to have the spotlight? Smash is so momentous that its very existence monopolizes any presentation where it drops significant news (which may be why they kept it lower key a few days ago), so wouldn't the smarter move be to ensure it doesn't steal the show at E3 so that other, upcoming games like Animal Crossing can get their share of attention?

It's one of the reasons why I'm mulling over the idea of a Smash Direct in April.

I think if there are two reveals, one of them would just be a showcase of Joker's moveset, rather than letting us know who DLC fighter 3 is.

Also, about the Mii Swordfighter/Duck Hut theory and Joker...Is is possible that Joker is the fighter using Mii Swordfighter as a base? MSF having a bone for a bladed weapon in his animation skeleton is more important than his proportions, and Mii classes having multiple sets of specials might've been important for how Sakurai wants Joker to play. I don't mean that you'd change them in a menu though, but rather during gameplay.
Hm...

I think...it'd depend on how much they needed the bone for the weapon despite it not having any hurtboxes coded in, and if that was higher priority than using a character with a build closer to Joker's like Sheik despite not having a weapon to work with there. We do know he wields his dagger even when idle, but does that tell us anything? I don't know.

And for what it's worth, the December 2015 Smash Direct went over Cloud's moveset and showed off two newcomers, so there's precedent for it, at least.
 
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RandomAce

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Wait a minute, just how many people would actually be angry if any Smash announcements happened prior to E3 instead of during it? Hardly anyone seemed to mind in 2015 when the summer update was laid out the day before E3 got going. And from a marketing standpoint, wouldn't it make more sense to leave E3 proper open for other games to have the spotlight? Smash is so momentous that its very existence monopolizes any presentation where it drops significant news (which may be why they kept it lower key a few days ago), so wouldn't the smarter move be to ensure it doesn't steal the show at E3 so that other, upcoming games like Animal Crossing can get their share of attention?

It's one of the reasons why I'm mulling over the idea of a Smash Direct in April.

And for what it's worth, the December 2015 Smash Direct went over Cloud's moveset and showed off two newcomers, so there's precedent for it, at least.
The reason why people weren’t mad is because they were revealed just 2 days prior to E3, so no one had any expectations for someone else. However, April is 2 months away from E3, so a significant amount of people would be expect that there would be another reveal coming due to spacing between those events.

I’m not really sure of the possibility. We know there are 5 characters coming, so we’d know 3 by April with 8 months to spare for the rest of the year for two unrevealed characters, seems like a lot of time. But then again, we did wait for 5 months for Cloud.

Going by you, I think you’d probably want to say that Lycanroc would have a shot being revealed in April if we were to have 2 character reveals there.
 
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So, an updated version of Sakurai's interview with the Japanese magazine Nintendo Dream surfaced overnight, with a few extra lines that hadn't been translated prior. None of the new info therein directly pertains to us, but the part where Sakurai talks about Piranha Plant is worth noting:


If the same mindset holds true for DLC, of keeping an eye on characters who offer unique abilities that only they can do, wouldn't you think it'd bode well for us? Especially since the Fighter Pass is sold as a single pack, meaning each individual fighter doesn't have to be a massive head-turner on its own as long as it contributes something interesting to the full set. In theory, this setup gives the DLC team more room to be experimental!
 
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RileyXY1

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So, an updated version of Sakurai's interview with the Japanese magazine Nintendo Dream surfaced overnight, with a few extra lines that hadn't been translated prior. None of the new info therein directly pertains to us, but the part where Sakurai talks about Piranha Plant is worth noting:


If the same mindset holds true for DLC, of keeping an eye on characters who offer unique abilities that only they can do, wouldn't you think it'd bode well for us? Especially since the Fighter Pass is sold as a single pack, meaning each individual fighter doesn't have to be a massive head-turner on its own as long as it contributes something interesting to the full set. In theory, this setup gives the DLC team more room to be experimental!
Yeah, especially considering that the only quadrupedal characters on the roster are Ivysaur and Duck Hunt. Ivysaur uses prehensile vines and Duck Hunt acts like a Looney Toons character, frequently walking on its hind legs. There are no true quadrupedal characters on the roster. The only problem with Lycanroc's chances are whether or not Gen 8 Pokemon are considered for DLC.
 
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Guynamednelson

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So, an updated version of Sakurai's interview with the Japanese magazine Nintendo Dream surfaced overnight, with a few extra lines that hadn't been translated prior. None of the new info therein directly pertains to us, but the part where Sakurai talks about Piranha Plant is worth noting:


If the same mindset holds true for DLC, of keeping an eye on characters who offer unique abilities that only they can do, wouldn't you think it'd bode well for us? Especially since the Fighter Pass is sold as a single pack, meaning each individual fighter doesn't have to be a massive head-turner on its own as long as it contributes something interesting to the full set. In theory, this setup gives the DLC team more room to be experimental!
Sakurai notes that it's hard to make sword users stand out. He jokes that protagonists should get an axe sometimes.
Sounds like another point in favor of Joker being the fighter that uses Mii Swordfighter as his base, rather than Erdrick. Of course, he could be saying that it was a struggle to make Erdrick unique instead. Also, someone probably thinks that axe comment is foreshadowing Edelgard, don't they?
 

RandomAce

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So, an updated version of Sakurai's interview with the Japanese magazine Nintendo Dream surfaced overnight, with a few extra lines that hadn't been translated prior. None of the new info therein directly pertains to us, but the part where Sakurai talks about Piranha Plant is worth noting:


If the same mindset holds true for DLC, of keeping an eye on characters who offer unique abilities that only they can do, wouldn't you think it'd bode well for us? Especially since the Fighter Pass is sold as a single pack, meaning each individual fighter doesn't have to be a massive head-turner on its own as long as it contributes something interesting to the full set. In theory, this setup gives the DLC team more room to be experimental!
I think it is a point for us. We’ve always argued how Lycanroc could be an interesting addition due to it’s potential quadruped form that can bring an interesting take for a moveset among them also probably wanting to also dip a lot in their Rock typing as well, they did the same with Corrin and their Dragon Fang, so who’s to say it can’t happen again? Hopefully this could be sign for Lycanroc.

Also, we know Edelgard is going to come with her axe if she ever gets in. It’s kinda funny how Sakurai seems to share the idea of an axe wielded similar that people here suggest for her.
 
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Cosmic77

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So, an updated version of Sakurai's interview with the Japanese magazine Nintendo Dream surfaced overnight, with a few extra lines that hadn't been translated prior. None of the new info therein directly pertains to us, but the part where Sakurai talks about Piranha Plant is worth noting:


If the same mindset holds true for DLC, of keeping an eye on characters who offer unique abilities that only they can do, wouldn't you think it'd bode well for us? Especially since the Fighter Pass is sold as a single pack, meaning each individual fighter doesn't have to be a massive head-turner on its own as long as it contributes something interesting to the full set. In theory, this setup gives the DLC team more room to be experimental!
While I do consider it to be a point for Lycanroc, keep in mind that it isn't particularly hard for a Pokémon to stand out moveset-wise. Decidueye, Mimikyu, Tapu Koko - all of them could fit the same bill. Heck, the Pokémon who we thought was extremely generic and boring was the one who Sakurai thought stood out and did "moves that's only possible with them".

I feel like this is something FE fans would want to pay closer attention to, not Pokémon fans.

Moving on to the topic of Mii Swordfighter being Joker, I suppose it's possible. It'd be a bit weird though, I must admit. Half of the FE characters, Shulk, Link, and Cloud would be a much closer fit to Joker's build than MSF. We'll have to wait and see if Edrick gets in, but I suppose by then we'll have our answer as to whether or not the "Brave" data, MSF, and Erdrick all match.
 

RandomAce

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I doubt Joker is using Mii Fighter as a base.

I think there are characters that would work better to build Joker off, and Joker’s knife, despite being more larger than usual apparently, isn’t really something similar to Mii’s sword, so there kind of it isn’t a reason to use Mii.

I think Joker is going to be built off of Robin. Robin seems have a similar build that can work with Joker’s, but more importantly, Robin’s main weapon, his Bronze/Levin Sword, is in the form of a dagger that closely resembles the knife we see Joker wield in his direct teaser.
 
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Guynamednelson

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I think Joker is going to be built off of Robin. Robin seems have a similar build that can work with Joker’s, but more importantly, Robin’s main weapon, his Bronze/Levin Sword, is in the form of a dagger that closely resembles the knife we see Joker wield in his direct teaser.
I agree that Robin's shape is a much better fit. Perhaps Joker just needs Mii's code to have a gimmick involving Personas giving him access to different specials, but his animation skeleton is drawn from Robin's.

Or maybe I'm just trying too hard to make a theory fit and this thread supporting someone who'd be built off Duck Hunt is just a coincidence.
While I do consider it to be a point for Lycanroc, keep in mind that it isn't particularly hard for a Pokémon to stand out moveset-wise. Decidueye, Mimikyu, Tapu Koko - all of them could fit the same bill. Heck, the Pokémon who we thought was extremely generic and boring was the one who Sakurai thought stood out and did "moves that's only possible with them".
Well, yes, you are right. However, at least Lycanroc doesn't have to worry about whether or not spirits and Poke Balls mean you can't be DLC. Decidueye doesn't either, but isn't as promoted. Or popular in Japan either, which is probably why Sakurai rejected it.
 
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Garteam

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While I do consider it to be a point for Lycanroc, keep in mind that it isn't particularly hard for a Pokémon to stand out moveset-wise. Decidueye, Mimikyu, Tapu Koko - all of them could fit the same bill. Heck, the Pokémon who we thought was extremely generic and boring was the one who Sakurai thought stood out and did "moves that's only possible with them".

I feel like this is something FE fans would want to pay closer attention to, not Pokémon fans.

Moving on to the topic of Mii Swordfighter being Joker, I suppose it's possible. It'd be a bit weird though, I must admit. Half of the FE characters, Shulk, Link, and Cloud would be a much closer fit to Joker's build than MSF. We'll have to wait and see if Edrick gets in, but I suppose by then we'll have our answer as to whether or not the "Brave" data, MSF, and Erdrick all match.
To be fair, Sakurai never said that Incineroar was chosen due to being able to carry a niche that no other character could. Incineroar was actually chosen due to his adaptability and ability to fit the wrestler archetype Sakurai always wanted. You could put Incineroar's moveset on characters such as Starman, Zangief, and King from Tekken and there would be only be a handful of changes necessary to make it fit each character.
 

Cosmic77

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To be fair, Sakurai never said that Incineroar was chosen due to being able to carry a niche that no other character could. Incineroar was actually chosen due to his adaptability and ability to fit the wrestler archetype Sakurai always wanted. You could put Incineroar's moveset on characters such as Starman, Zangief, and King from Tekken and there would be only be a handful of changes necessary to make it fit each character.
Yes, and that just further proves my point that Sakurai's word shouldn't be taken too literally. We always look for some type of pattern based off of his previous statements and roster choices, only to be told, "Well, I decided to go with this character instead because..." People initially get upset, then slowly try to rationalize why his choice can still fit into the context that he's set, when truthfully, it doesn't really fit at all.

As far as speculation goes, I usually ignore what he says at this point. It's interesting to hear what he has to say, but it rarely helps us determine who will get in Smash. He contradicts himself too many times now for me to actually think his statements will give us a clue as to who he'll choose.
 

RandomAce

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Darkest Lariat itself was inspired by one of Zangief's moves.

I thought the moveset would fit the Rhythm Heaven wrestler for two reasons: The posing, and his side-B being timing-based, just like the gameplay of RH.
He even hints at it during Incineroar’s segment of the last direct, calling it a “Red Cyclone” when mentioning his Darkest Lariat.
 
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