Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

Joined
Oct 29, 2017
Messages
2,333
I know that the whole Mii swordfighter and Duck Hunt crashing thing is up in the air as to whether or not they were used for newcomers, but i can't believe i didn't see it before: if this was all true and the rumors about Erdrick were true, then why did they pick mii swordfighter instead of someone with a shield like Young Link or regular Link. It's just a thought.


I really ''dig'' that one.
Mii Swordfighter seems to be able to fit Erdrick’s proportions well as a medium size fighter than the Links.

Although I’m not a game dev, I think it’s possible that they could use both Mii Swordfighter and Link’s Shields to match more closely to Erdrick.
 

MasteRMerF

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
203
Location
Here, maybe?
3DS FC
5000-2607-1297
NNID
MasteRMerF
Well, as it's been foretold, we'll be getting a Nintendo direct tomorrow. What are you guys hoping to see and what do you think we'll see?So far we know there will be new details on Fire Emblem: Three Houses and the direct will run for 35 minutes.
I'm hoping for some Joker gameplay, the next smash DLC character and/or some sort of tease/announcement for Gen 8.
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
887
Location
Canada, eh?
NNID
Garteam
Well, as it's been foretold, we'll be getting a Nintendo direct tomorrow. What are you guys hoping to see and what do you think we'll see?So far we know there will be new details on Fire Emblem: Three Houses and the direct will run for 35 minutes.
I'm hoping for some Joker gameplay, the next smash DLC character and/or some sort of tease/announcement for Gen 8.
I'm personally hoping for another character, but I think it's much more likely that will just get our first gameplay of Joker.

Regarding non-Smash content, the only thing I'm really excited for is Fire Emblem: Three Houses. I'm also crossing my fingers that will see the unannounced game that was teased in the investor's breakdown.
 

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,488
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
So, now we wait and see what the Direct has in store.

What kind of Smash news we get will depend on whether this Direct was always planned for now or was delayed from January, I think. If this was supposed to be a January Direct, perhaps any segment for Ultimate would've been focused on Piranha Plant, which isn't needed now. I think there's a plausible chance we get details on Joker or at least a render + release window, but right now I think the odds of a newcomer reveal aren't all that great barring another unusual example like Joker's gameplay-less trailer.

Still, though, if we're to have a fighting chance, now's the time. With the greater context suggesting we were too late for the base roster and suggesting Gen 8's characters are still too in flux to have been an option a few months ago, the door is still open for us. Even if only a little, and if an awful lot of other speculators keep insisting the door must be shut without checking to make sure.

Us against the world? Business as usual, right?

I think you bring up some good points but I think it could still go both ways. Either,
  1. Sakurai, not wanting to make the same mistake, avoids planning around any character who hasn't been released yet. This means any character who isn't already in a game before even possibly as early as 2016 could be safely assumed to be too late. However this wouldn't eliminate characters like Sylux who have been in games before but could still be added as promotion for his supposed expanded role in MP4.
  2. Sakurai, not wanting to make the same mistake, decides to reach out to the developers and works closely with them to make sure he has a good idea of how the character would work. This would be further aided by the fact that with the way DLC appears to be working, with them not starting work on the DLC until the game is out, they would be able to wait and start working on the character until after they have made their debut or at least soon will.
Personally I think that I could see either being possible. However I will add that while he may feel remorse for Roy's portrayal he did after that design Greninja using pre-production designs of the character without knowing how his final design would work, this is why he uses water kunai and his water shuriken doesn't work exactly like it does in game.

Also when looking at the case of Rex, I've said it elsewhere but I think XC2 caught everyone off guard and that no one expected the game to do that well so they wouldn't have considered saving a DLC slot for someone from that game like they might for games they anticipate to do well like Fire Emblem/Metroid/Pokemon.
Thing is, development on each new fighter seems to be so complex and require so much scheduling that it's very difficult to adapt to changes in design or characteristics on the fly. Details on Roy surely changed further back than just a couple months before FE6's delay, but the Melee team still wasn't able to take those changes into account. This is a logistical issue we're considering here, a time and workload issue, and so no amount of working closely with the team of another game would solve that if there simply isn't the spare time or manpower available.

Also, the concept art was Greninja's final design, the water swords were actually used in the anime a few times, and Sakurai probably had more details on hand than just one sheet of concept art because why from a design standpoint would you rely so much on such limited information for such a major undertaking? And considering Nintendo hit the reset button on Metroid Prime 4's development, I'd think Sylux is probably out of the running for the time being since the thing that'd have made him relevant might not even be finished until 2021 now.

I know that the whole Mii swordfighter and Duck Hunt crashing thing is up in the air as to whether or not they were used for newcomers, but i can't believe i didn't see it before: if this was all true and the rumors about Erdrick were true, then why did they pick mii swordfighter instead of someone with a shield like Young Link or regular Link. It's just a thought.
Well, it seems like the actual character model isn't as important to reference as the general build, hurtboxes, and very basic animations are. Adding a shield to the model wouldn't be too much of a hassle since it's just a piece of equipment that moves when the bearer's arm does. And Young Link in particular wouldn't be a good reference point anyway due to other reasons. Why would they create a character who is an adult and has an adult build--albeit one with potentially super-deformed traits--by referencing the model of a character with a child's build and proportions?

That said, they could still use someone other than Mii Swordfighter as a base--regular Link comes to mind, who even has a shield too--which is why we should keep looking into this to be sure if it means anything.

I didn't know you were here on Smashboards. Can you make a concept video on Porky please. I don't know whether you think he is likely or not, but can you at least make a video for him?
Forgot to respond to this earlier.

Unfortunately, these kinds of suggestions are...a bit of a gray area. I don't just pull these character concepts out of the ether; I need to have an idea of how I want to work them and how they could best stand out. Who knows in the long term, but I cannot promise anything in the near future. Sorry, but that's all I can really say for now.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
971
Location
Indiana
Thing is, development on each new fighter seems to be so complex and require so much scheduling that it's very difficult to adapt to changes in design or characteristics on the fly. Details on Roy surely changed further back than just a couple months before FE6's delay, but the Melee team still wasn't able to take those changes into account. This is a logistical issue we're considering here, a time and workload issue, and so no amount of working closely with the team of another game would solve that if there simply isn't the spare time or manpower available.

Also, the concept art was Greninja's final design, the water swords were actually used in the anime a few times, and Sakurai probably had more details on hand than just one sheet of concept art because why from a design standpoint would you rely so much on such limited information for such a major undertaking? And considering Nintendo hit the reset button on Metroid Prime 4's development, I'd think Sylux is probably out of the running for the time being since the thing that'd have made him relevant might not even be finished until 2021 now.
Well with Roy they were also putting him as a clone, so they already were working on a smaller time frame and inside more constraints. And again while DLC is probably planned out during development all they have to do is say "and one slot for a new FE character from Three Houses" and then when they start on them they can go to IS and get everything they need. I'm not saying its a guarantee or even likely but its definitely in the realm of possibilities, especially if Nintendo had more say in the DLC this time.

And if Sylux was planned for DLC they're probably still putting him in, I seriously doubt they would cancel a planned character and then have to come up with a new one on the fly. Maybe if Sylux hadn't been in anything before now it would be one thing but he is an already established character, at worst they might need to retool some of his design to avoid MP4 spoilers or things that won't be in the game any more.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
3,526
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
Seeing how DLC didn't officially start until after November 1st, just getting Joker gameplay would be a huge deal. It isn't impossible, but we'd be extremely lucky to get two characters in less than three months (keep in mind that Lucas, a veteran, took about five months).

As for who I expect, I've got no clue. Secretly, I'd be happy with any first-party character (maybe even FE) just so we can dispel this idea that we're only getting third-party characters.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2017
Messages
2,333
How do you guys feel about Lycanroc so far?

With the upcoming direct, do you guys think Lycanroc’s best chance were to be a revealed tomorrow, or think it’s possible that they can be revealed at a later time?

I always felt that even if Gen 8 wasn’t in the equation for newcomers, it still can affect how they may release Lycanroc if they are DLC newcomers.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
3,526
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
How do you guys feel about Lycanroc so far?

With the upcoming direct, do you guys think Lycanroc’s best chance were to be a revealed tomorrow, or think it’s possible that they can be revealed at a later time?

I always felt that even if Gen 8 wasn’t in the equation for newcomers, it still can affect how they may release Lycanroc if they are DLC newcomers.
I honestly don't think it matters at this point. Aside from there being one less slot for DLC, it sounds like all of this has been close to being finalized a while before the November Direct. Either they told Sakurai to wait for Gen 8 designs or they didn't.

Although, I will point out once again that we should be rooting for any first-party character. Getting a second third-party would definitely make Lycanroc and any other Nintendo character seem less likely.
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
1,387
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2
Forgot to respond to this earlier.

Unfortunately, these kinds of suggestions are...a bit of a gray area. I don't just pull these character concepts out of the ether; I need to have an idea of how I want to work them and how they could best stand out. Who knows in the long term, but I cannot promise anything in the near future. Sorry, but that's all I can really say for now.
I could see Porky borrowing some moves from his Subspace Emissary boss fight just like how Ridley borrowed some of his moves from his Subspace Emissary boss fight.
 

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,488
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
How do you guys feel about Lycanroc so far?

With the upcoming direct, do you guys think Lycanroc’s best chance were to be a revealed tomorrow, or think it’s possible that they can be revealed at a later time?

I always felt that even if Gen 8 wasn’t in the equation for newcomers, it still can affect how they may release Lycanroc if they are DLC newcomers.
Considering what we've discussed recently about Sakurai seemingly avoiding characters who haven't been finalized...I think we may have a shot for this entire wave. It'd make more sense to happen sooner than later, to show off the Gen 7 character before Gen 8 talk gets going, but we know full well it's not so simple.

That said...it does seem rather early to get another reveal. We don't even know how far along any characters are--if DLC development (beyond Piranha Plant) only started in November, they may not have anyone polished enough to show gameplay of yet.

Still, if we do get a reveal, hopefully it's someone who puts an end to the theories of the month. It's frustrating, trying to bring up new ideas only to be brickwalled just because they don't line up with whatever is popular to believe at the moment. Heh, who'd have thought Smash speculation would give us all such a crash course on how tribalism works?

Let us hope that we are the ones to defy it.
 

Luigifan18

Smash Champion
Premium
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
2,880
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
Heh, who'd have thought Smash speculation would give us all such a crash course on how tribalism works?

Let us hope that we are the ones to defy it.
The "us versus them" mentality has been known to be sparked by things that are considerably more inane than video game roster speculation...
 

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,488
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
So, no newcomer reveal, just as we suspected. We're still alive for a while longer.

No Smash news at all, in fact, other than a release window for Joker and alluding to there being quite a bit of content planned for April. Wonder what they have up their sleeves...

Thoughts on the Direct as a whole?
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2017
Messages
2,333
So, no newcomer reveal, just as we suspected. We're still alive for a while longer.

No Smash news at all, in fact, other than a release window for Joker and alluding to there being quite a bit of content planned for April. Wonder what they have up their sleeves...

Thoughts on the Direct as a whole?
It was okay... but other than FE Three Houses there was nothing I was really excited for. For Smash. We have Ver. 3.0 and our first look at Joker. But, with the way they’re treating this though, and going out to state that details are coming later.

I think we have a Smash Direct coming up in March to showcase it and that’s where they will reveal our next challenger.

Ugh, it’s kinda tiring having to know we’re about to get some juicy stuff. Makes me wonder about Lycanroc and their chances of showing up there are.
 
Last edited:

LukeRNG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
113
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
There's some things i liked, others i didn't, but: I'm TOO Excited for Astral Chain. Fire Emblem really looks interesting with a setting that really reminds me of Hogwarts. Mario Maker 2 looks great and i might try Link's Awakening now.
And i can't wait for Dragon Quest 11.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
3,526
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
Just as I thought, it was way too early for a second DLC reveal. Though, I am a little surprised we didn't get more footage of Joker. All we got was his model and crouching animation.

Anyways, nothing really happened today. As usual, we'll have to wait this out for answers.

(Edit: I take that back. Something DID happen. Vergeben was horribly wrong with his predictions. Star Fox Grand Prix and Pikmin 4 were nowhere to be found, and he even explicitly stated that a new Zelda game could possibly get revealed, but it wouldn't be related to Link's Awakening. Seems like his words should be taken with a bigger grain of salt than before.)
 
Last edited:

LukeRNG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
113
Location
Not USA
NNID
LukeBraginsky
I know i shouldn't 100% believe rumors, but given that Erdrick makes a lot of sense as an icon in Japan, i do find it interesting that Dragon Quest got not only quite a lot of attention, but that Dragon Quest 11 S got a Direct spotlight even when it just was a definitive edition.
Seems quite odd that now they're pushing Dragon Quest. Not saying that automatically means Erdrick is the next dlc fighter, but just something i noticed and would make a lot of sense to hype up the series given it's popularity in Japan.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
1,033
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
NNID
Nelson340
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
Seems quite odd that now they're pushing Dragon Quest. Not saying that automatically means Erdrick is the next dlc fighter, but just something i noticed and would make a lot of sense to hype up the series given it's popularity in Japan.
JRPGs are huge sellers on the Switch, so of course they'd want to push the OG JRPG.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
3,526
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
I know i shouldn't 100% believe rumors, but given that Erdrick makes a lot of sense as an icon in Japan, i do find it interesting that Dragon Quest got not only quite a lot of attention, but that Dragon Quest 11 S got a Direct spotlight even when it just was a definitive edition.
Seems quite odd that now they're pushing Dragon Quest. Not saying that automatically means Erdrick is the next dlc fighter, but just something i noticed and would make a lot of sense to hype up the series given it's popularity in Japan.
I wouldn't read too much into it. Dragon Quest games have been notable titles in Nintendo Directs for quite some time. Since Erdrick wasn't revealed in this Direct (which is a little weird, because it would've been the perfect place to do so), I'd assume it's just a coincidence. Keep in mind that these games were being developed long before Ultimate's DLC even began.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2017
Messages
2,333
DQ XI S has been announced/developed for a long time and just started being shown since late last year.

It’s a version they created just for the Switch and they showed that they are bringing lots of new content and adjustments (like an orchestrated soundtrack this time), and even a retro style of the whole game so that they could make this the best version of DQ11 they could for the Nintendo market.

I don’t think it itself is a sign to Erdrick, since the game itself is already a pretty big deal with how they’re working on this version. And DQ is pretty synonymous with Nintendo, with plenty of titles premiering and ported over to their systems.
 
Last edited:
Top