Meta Custom Moveset Project: Mega Man

[Doval]

A note: I don't think shadow blade, metal blade, or hyper bomb are affected by rage in the same way they are not affected by stale moves.

It's been a while but I'm pretty sure Shadow Blade doesn't count as an item and thus is affected by stale moves.

 

[Locke 06]

It's been a while but I'm pretty sure Shadow Blade doesn't count as an item and thus is affected by stale moves.

It's been a while since I tested it too, but I'm pretty sure it deals 2% consistently. Would be a quick thing to test.
Also, the fact that Rosalina can Gravity pull and throw it like an item makes me hesitate further.

 

[glenn]

(2) I find Charge Shot's interaction with a Skull Barrier to be... weird. The conventional wisdom on that move may not be 100% correct. Having played around with SB in the Samus matchup, I've seen SB reflect some max Charge Shots and fail to reflect others. I think that it may have something to do with max Charge Shot's hitbox being so large--it could be that max CS often touches MM's hurtboxes before it touches one of the SB's reflect boxes. The key thing is that SB is not reliable enough to use on reaction, but on prediction it can still be pretty good, as you can put up your shield and let that take the hit if your SB fails.

Hmmm, I wonder in that case if Spot Dodge/Air Dodge intangibility frames would give SB a chance to work against Samus' CS. I haven't used it much, does it still maintain reflector properties during dodges? If it really is about hurtboxes connecting before SB hitboxes reflect the CS, maybe there's a consistent way to position Mega Man's hurtboxes ( running away from CS would lower the per frame delta of the approaching CS. Totally untested and complete speculation on my part.

 

[mega4000]

I don't see the difference; having all the usual air options is still limiting. There's nothing they can do to not fall, air dodges are way more punishable than rolls and if there's a platform under them there's nothing they can do about your Air Shooter spam. Fair point on the startup lag though.If they roll backwards the explosion's now between you and them, so you've got nothing except ranged attacks. None of them are fast enough to catch a roll; if you commit to one early, they jump instead.If you trump, the barrier hits and causes them to fall straght down for a footstool and d-air. If you don't, you can do the exact same getup action to follow them with the barrier.

you don't really see the potential of crash bomb using skull barrier don't you?

It's been a while since I tested it too, but I'm pretty sure it deals 2% consistently. Would be a quick thing to test.
Also, the fact that Rosalina can Gravity pull and throw it like an item makes me hesitate further.

yes, a good rosalina fears metal blade way more than shadow blade. Shado blade can be grabbed like an item by rosalina

 

[Locke 06]

yes, a good rosalina fears metal blade way more than shadow blade. Shado blade can be grabbed like an item by rosalina

But only after gravity pull, correct?

I've never seen it get caught normally like metal blade.

Also, crash bomb doesn't need skull barrier and, while Doval has a point in that rolling backwards is probably the optimal way to avoid a CB trap, it's a defensive maneuver that is a net loss due to positioning, and you can prevent/punish the roll with pellet/MB shield pressure.

 

[Kronos2560]

Only one set with beat? Lol

 

[mega4000]

But only after gravity pull, correct?

I've never seen it get caught normally like metal blade.

Also, crash bomb doesn't need skull barrier and, while Doval has a point in that rolling backwards is probably the optimal way to avoid a CB trap, it's a defensive maneuver that is a net loss due to positioning, and you can prevent/punish the roll with pellet/MB shield pressure.

sorry but no, crash bomb has no future with leaf shield or plant barrier. You can say whatever you want but at high competitive level I'm not gonna change my mind. If you wanna stick to default set thats fine, but there is a reason ninja link didn't put a single crash bomb set without skull barrier. You wanna prove the contrary? fine, go ahead and get good results at tournys using crash bomb + leaf shield or plant barrier and then we can talk. A good diddy will use crash bomb against you every single time, without skull barrier there is nothing you can do. Don't believe me? Fine, go ahead and play against ZeRo and see it by yourself because teory is one thing but results it's all that matters, and don't bring no custom tournaments as proof because nobody is playing without customs anymore.

 

[Locke 06]

sorry but no, crash bomb has no future with leaf shield or plant barrier. You can say whatever you want but at high competitive level I'm not gonna change my mind. If you wanna stick to default set thats fine, but there is a reason ninja link didn't put a single crash bomb set without skull barrier. You wanna prove the contrary? fine, go ahead and get good results at tournys using crash bomb + leaf shield or plant barrier and then we can talk. A good diddy will use crash bomb against you every single time, without skull barrier there is nothing you can do. Don't believe me? Fine, go ahead and play against ZeRo and see it by yourself because teory is one thing but results it's all that matters, and don't bring no custom tournaments as proof because nobody is playing without customs anymore.

1. Not everyone plays Diddy.
2. There are many non-custom legal tournaments.
3. If you want to play the results game, I'm looking for customs legal results and finding similar results.
4. Name drop.

 

[Doval]

It's been a while since I tested it too, but I'm pretty sure it deals 2% consistently. Would be a quick thing to test.
Also, the fact that Rosalina can Gravity pull and throw it like an item makes me hesitate further.

Just tried it, you're correct. I wasn't aware Rosalina could grab it. Even so, aren't she and Villager the only ones that can "grab" it?

you don't really see the potential of crash bomb using skull barrier don't you?

I don't see what you're getting at. You should be able to keep away from more characters than not. There aren't that many characters that can force their way through lemon spam within 3 seconds without leaving themselves open. Either way, I'm not saying Ice Slasher is unconditionally a better choice than Crash Bomb. I'm saying it's viable, yet it showed up in 0 out of 10 builds.

Also, crash bomb doesn't need skull barrier and, while Doval has a point in that rolling backwards is probably the optimal way to avoid a CB trap, it's a defensive maneuver that is a net loss due to positioning, and you can prevent/punish the roll with pellet/MB shield pressure.

You probably can't prevent a roll reliably with lemon spam, there's more than enough time between the 3 shots. There's only 3 frames of vulnerability at the beginning of most rolls I believe. A lemon might hit at the end of the roll, but that's only 2%, almost no knockback, and no follow-up. Metal Blade would have the best payoff, but you still have a low chance of cathing them pre-roll and too far to follow up if you hit post-roll. On the other hand Shadow Blade has two shots at catching the roll.

Still, if succeed they'll just switch to jumping with an air dodge.

 

[mega4000]

Just tried it, you're correct. I wasn't aware Rosalina could grab it. Even so, aren't she and Villager the only ones that can "grab" it?
I don't see what you're getting at. You should be able to keep away from more characters than not. There aren't that many characters that can force their way through lemon spam within 3 seconds without leaving themselves open. Either way, I'm not saying Ice Slasher is unconditionally a better choice than Crash Bomb. I'm saying it's viable, yet it showed up in 0 out of 10 builds.
You probably can't prevent a roll reliably with lemon spam, there's more than enough time between the 3 shots. There's only 3 frames of vulnerability at the beginning of most rolls I believe. A lemon might hit at the end of the roll, but that's only 2%, almost no knockback, and no follow-up. Metal Blade would have the best payoff, but you still have a low chance of cathing them pre-roll and too far to follow up if you hit post-roll. On the other hand Shadow Blade has two shots at catching the roll.

Still, if succeed they'll just switch to jumping with an air dodge.

I'm half with you in your points. I don't think crash bomb has a future without skull barrier because as you say, a smart player will know how to evade the explosion every single time, while with skull barrier you force them because you are immune to the explosion (is an extra pressure). I've played tons of pro players this 2 weeks and the best method to evade crash bomb is either stick it back to megaman or do some kind of dodge when it's about to explode. Skull barrier negates the first one completly, and if they shield the crash bomb you have a free grab so they have just two options:
Either they attack you and deal with the explosion or they go for the dodge. You have to release the skull barrier just when you hear the click sound of the crash bomb getting attached, that way the explosion won't do crap tou you and you will be able to perform any action like a bair after that or you can go for a grab or item metal blade into grab. If they decide to dodge who is likely the thing a pro will do, you have to read what he is doing and then punish. That's how you play a proper crash bomb in my experience against a good player, and that's way the custom sets are like this with 1112 and 1122.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Crash bomb forces a rush down or a defensive move.
Crash bomb forces the opponent to do something that they wouldn't normally want to do.
All dodges (roll/spot dodge/air dodge) are predictable and punishable on reaction.
No character aside from Bowser and Mac can rush down mega through pellets to my knowledge.

QED. Crash bomb will eventually force a defensive move or hit the opponent if you don't allow the rushdown. Defensive moves are predictable and punishable. Crash bomb does good shield damage and chips their shield if already low. Crash bomb explosion shield techs allow for mega to have non laggy kill moves, which most people believe is his biggest problem.

The move is complicated to use correctly, but it is criminally overlooked for its utility.

I also firmly believe that 1111 megaman is a tournament viable setup

 

[mega4000]

Crash bomb forces a rush down or a defensive move.
Crash bomb forces the opponent to do something that they wouldn't normally want to do.
All dodges (roll/spot dodge/air dodge) are predictable and punishable on reaction.
No character aside from Bowser and Mac can rush down mega through pellets to my knowledge.

QED. Crash bomb will eventually force a defensive move or hit the opponent if you don't allow the rushdown. Defensive moves are predictable and punishable. Crash bomb does good shield damage and chips their shield if already low. Crash bomb explosion shield techs allow for mega to have non laggy kill moves, which most people believe is his biggest problem.

The move is complicated to use correctly, but it is criminally overlooked for its utility.

I also firmly believe that 1111 megaman is a tournament viable setup

then go and show good results with it in a custom on tournament. Everyone can talk teory whatever they want, but what matters are results. I know you are a skilled player fenrir, but theres a whole different league outside there and I'm really starting to catch up, specially after playing with so many pros this past two weeks and from what I and my scene have seen, 1111 its useless compared to 1112 or 1311

 

[Doval]

Crash bomb forces a rush down or a defensive move.
Crash bomb forces the opponent to do something that they wouldn't normally want to do.
All dodges (roll/spot dodge/air dodge) are predictable and punishable on reaction.
No character aside from Bowser and Mac can rush down mega through pellets to my knowledge.

QED. Crash bomb will eventually force a defensive move or hit the opponent if you don't allow the rushdown. Defensive moves are predictable and punishable. Crash bomb does good shield damage and chips their shield if already low. Crash bomb explosion shield techs allow for mega to have non laggy kill moves, which most people believe is his biggest problem.

The move is complicated to use correctly, but it is criminally overlooked for its utility.

I also firmly believe that 1111 megaman is a tournament viable setup

Like I said, you can't chase a backwards roll because the explosion ends up between you and him. You could with Skull Barrier, but now you've simultaneously shown your hand and limited your options; all they have to do is jump instead of rolling. They can also jump on reaction to any projectile except maybe a held Metal Blade thrown point blank. Charge Shot is too slow, neutral B is too slow, and a buster shot is not enough payoff to bother using CB to begin with.

As you said, they're not goint to rush you down because you're expecting it. But the same applies to you; it's not like you can just run up to them and wait to punish a roll.

There's something to be said for controlling the pace of the fight. Even if you don't get to punish the roll, CB is disruptive. I'm just not convinced it directly leads to punishes - especially kill moves - or that it's so much better than Ice Slasher that it's the only alternative to Danger Wrap.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Let me put it this way... Mega man has been shown to be a tournament viable character in non customs tourneys, and there's no reason to believe the addition of customs would change that if mega were locked to 1111 for some reason.

That said, I have stated before that I think 1311 is our best blind pick setup, but I take offense at 1111 being called useless because that has been proven to be a blatantly false statement.

@ D Doval , I'm actually among the main advocates for an ice slasher set to be included. See my previous posts in this thread. So I agree with you there.

Regarding the back roll, I have had a lot of success catching back rolls with a full hop metal blade down45, which leads to utilt or grab. It's something you can throw out to cover that option. Standing metal blade will also work to give a grab, etc. Point being, any time you can force ANY defensive option is positive for you, even if it just gives stage position.

I'm just saying crash bomb is useful. I think all 3 side bs are for different situations.

 

[ChopperDave]

I don't like Crash Bomber, but I think it's mostly because I play online more often than not. In my experience erratic rolling is way harder to punish online than offline because some characters don't have many vulnerability frames, and it can be hard to time punishes when you have to work around input lag. It gets frustrating because when I attach a Crash Bomber, it seems like people can just roll around like maniacs and it often works out alright for them. Roll spam is already a pain in the ass online, and it only gets worse when you give people the ability to explode in your face (phrasing!).

 

[Locke 06]

I love me some crash bomb. Transcendent explosion means you can throw a metal blade through it.

Also, if it doesn't hit? Whatever. They've just rolled backwards/shielded/whatever and you have initiative and dictate positioning. Win. Small win? Sure, but I'm all about the little victories because they add up. It's frustrating because of how low MM's damage output is, but that's kind of the game you play with this character.

I am a long time supporter of IS, so you'll see no objections from me on that front. However, I'm curious what set you'd use with IS, @ D Doval . 1213 seems to be the one that makes the most sense, but I have the most experience with 1211 because that's what I had uploaded on my Wii U (before I played around with PB).

 

[Doval]

I am a long time supporter of IS, so you'll see no objections from me on that front. However, I'm curious what set you'd use with IS, @ D Doval . 1213 seems to be the one that makes the most sense, but I have the most experience with 1211 because that's what I had uploaded on my Wii U (before I played around with PB).

Close enough. I usually use 3211, swapping out Leaf Shield for Skull Barrier if I'm up against Robin or Samus. However I generally play with the same group of people so I haven't tried those sets against a lot of characters. I use CB against characters like Ganondorf, Bowser of Charizard since they have slow movement, jumps, jabs, but no one I know uses the first two and I don't fight the Charizard player very often.

 

[Kronos2560]

Beat should be in more sets. Megaman having great recovery is so important, and it's pretty hard to gimp if you're skilled at using it.

I hope this list gets revised, because it was crafted way too soon with way too many voices from people that don't even compete. Just theory crafters.

 

[p1ay6ack]

Beat should be in more sets. Megaman having great recovery is so important, and it's pretty hard to gimp if you're skilled at using it.

I hope this list gets revised, because it was crafted way too soon with way too many voices from people that don't even compete. Just theory crafters.

this set is only standard for evo. you can make adjustments as you see fit. sets can change after evo anyway. nothing is set in stone. i really like beat. ppl gotta stop using beat like rush tho, cuz yea, if you use beat like rush, you will more likely get gimped

 

[mega4000]

this set is only standard for evo. you can make adjustments as you see fit. sets can change after evo anyway. nothing is set in stone. i really like beat. ppl gotta stop using beat like rush tho, cuz yea, if you use beat like rush, you will more likely get gimped

how do you recommend using beat? I mean what is using beat like rush?

 

[p1ay6ack]

how do you recommend using beat? I mean what is using beat like rush?

i have a vid of where im using 1333 as a set against nairo. we were doing viewer battles on stream. http://www.twitch.tv/nairomk/v/3991027?t=1hr19m45s i managed to take a game off nairo here, and we were doing best of 3. but he wasn't using his mains so there's that. when i recover with beat from the bottom of stage, i angle beat to rise away from the stage, then use my second jump to come back to the stage, if i have to, i air dodge towards the stage. if i'm recovering from the outer left or right side of the stage, i use beat to go up to the top of stage, this way it doesnt give my opp an option to punish my landing. and this doesn't make my landing predictable.

using beat like rush is recoveriing from the bottom of the stage directly up. beat is slow on startup and that gives your opp plenty of time to down tilt you, or hit you towards the lower bottom of the stage, and making you tech or you die from knockback. if you are at the very far outer side of the stage, dont just hold the direction to get back to the stage, that'll give your opp a prediction on how your trajectory is going to be.

you have a lot of maneuverability with beat. its in your power to make things work awesome :D

(i time stamped the link at the time we were playing but its not working rite >.< our matches start at 1hr19m45seconds

 

[mega4000]

i have a vid of where im using 1333 as a set against nairo. we were doing viewer battles on stream. http://www.twitch.tv/nairomk/v/3991027?t=1hr19m45s i managed to take a game off nairo here, and we were doing best of 3. but he wasn't using his mains so there's that. when i recover with beat from the bottom of stage, i angle beat to rise away from the stage, then use my second jump to come back to the stage, if i have to, i air dodge towards the stage. if i'm recovering from the outer left or right side of the stage, i use beat to go up to the top of stage, this way it doesnt give my opp an option to punish my landing. and this doesn't make my landing predictable.

using beat like rush is recoveriing from the bottom of the stage directly up. beat is slow on startup and that gives your opp plenty of time to down tilt you, or hit you towards the lower bottom of the stage, and making you tech or you die from knockback. if you are at the very far outer side of the stage, dont just hold the direction to get back to the stage, that'll give your opp a prediction on how your trajectory is going to be.

you have a lot of maneuverability with beat. its in your power to make things work awesome :D

(i time stamped the link at the time we were playing but its not working rite >.< our matches start at 1hr19m45seconds

what if you are under the stage? there are situations when you can't go for other part aside from the ledge. Also, if you go up with beat, there is plenty of time for your opponent to punish your fall, specially when he know you will have landing lag unless your perform an action.

Update: I saw the matchs, the mario one showed why beat is so gimpeable :S

 

[CopShowGuy]

Yeah. You showed some good use of it in the one match but the next match showed some pretty bad use.

 

[Kronos2560]

Being able to recover high, or with no double jump, or under the stage is reason enough to say that beat is a much stronger option than rush.

1333 is good, but I'd like to be able to modify my set to include skull barrier if needed.

 

[p1ay6ack]

yeh, the 2nd match got me a bit pressured. i kept thinking about how nairo was setting me up for mario's dunks, and then yea...it cost me a stock. e_e

im still trying to figure out how to "beat glitch." ppl say it makes beat rise up fast with little startup lag, but theres no video of it.

I'm in favor for a skull barrier set. i've been using skull barrier in training as a projectile in gimps, and it's been a very interesting follow up into knuckle, or fair, or bair, and with beat's recovery, i dont have much worry recovering low from the stage

 

[Galaxian]

Y'know I don't post here much because I don't play much Mega Man though I do want to get better at him but I feel like this belongs here.

Truly the best custom.

 

[---]

Bumping thing to help redirect discussion.

If you have a video of a certain set or specific move in action please tag me so I can archive it.

 

[Greward]

Beat is the best upB and having only one set with it is pretty stupid imo.

1333 and 1332 are a must, it would also be nice to have access to beat + crash bomb.

 

[p1ay6ack]

i really like using beat. i understand you can't act out of it fast like rush, but you can go in pretty deep, and i like offstage megaman alot. ive been playing with plant barrier, and it makes me feel the startup can be costly at times e_e when's a good time to activate plant barrier?

 

[NinjaLink]

Beat is the best upB and having only one set with it is pretty stupid imo.

1333 and 1332 are a must, it would also be nice to have access to beat + crash bomb.

Explain why you think its the best up-B.

i really like using beat. i understand you can't act out of it fast like rush, but you can go in pretty deep, and i like offstage megaman alot. ive been playing with plant barrier, and it makes me feel the startup can be costly at times e_e when's a good time to activate plant barrier?

Either directly after you knock an opponent a decent distance offstage or when you're really high up, probably near the magnifying glass.

 

[Jehtt]

Keep Beat's momentum glitch in mind; if you use it as soon as you possibly can out of hitstun, your acceleration will be much faster.

 

[Funkermonster]

Just unlocked all the customs for Mega Man 2 days ago, interested in going to the lab for Hyper Bomb and finding potential uses for it. Unfortunately, it was done from my cousin's 3DS (has no NNID and is still on 1.0.4, it needs a credit card with 50 cents to make one and I don't think I can do that) and my own Wii U is not with me right now, so I'm unable to test in the heat of battle against any opponents until then. But for those who have used it already, what sets do you think would compliment Hyper Bomb best? Right now I made 2212.

 

[p1ay6ack]

after experimenting with hyperbomb and the recoveries. rush is the best out of all them. why? cuz rush has the least lag and the least recovery trajectory out of all them. rush doesn't make you commit to recovering as much as the rest. rush lets you act out fastest. and with hyper bomb you want to able to have the least laggy moves to be kinda viable.

the side b's is good between danger wrap and crash bomb. i'm still labbing out these two. ice slasher is a no. ice slasher makes you lag too much. if you combine ice slasher with hyperbomb, the lag will drive you crazy. if you're going to use ice slasher, it's best to use with metalblade.

the down bs are between leaf shield and skull barrier. less lag,

 

[Sleek Media]

Can't you use Hyper Bomb for combos with Tengu Blade?

 

[Funkermonster]

By Tengu Blade, don't you mean Tornado Hold (Tengu Man's weapon)? And Ice Slasher being a no with Hyper Bomb because of lag? Yeah, I'm not too sure about that. The merit I see in both moves is that they deal more knockback than most of Mega's other projectiles, and are ideal for stage control when in a bind. Although I myself prefer it, Metal Blades are quicker than HB, but don't do a lot of knockback unless you use it as item (which makes a crack in your projectile wall as it has to be set up), and also does not have as much blockstun. Ice Slasher pops opponents up on hit and give back stage control you might have lost from retreating to the edge with lemons, and hyper bomb on its own pushes enemies back a little bit and I figured it'd help with that a little bit. I mostly thought of using Hyper Bomb against other projectile characters, but I also theorize that it could possiblywork well against guys like ,, maybe , or anyone else reliant a lot on aerial approaches or their air game as an anti air due to Hyper Bomb's arch (I'm well aware that Danger Wrap exists, but it gets out-prioritized by everything and doesn't always stop approaches). I also find myself throwing the bomb diagonally downwards a lot, I find it easiest to hit opponents that way and it seems to work great for edgeguarding too.

I could always be wrong, but I still think think 2212 is worth a shot. And this is all just theorycraft before I truly try it out, so I very likely am wrong but I'll still give it a go and watch what happens.

 

[Greward]

Explain why you think its the best up-B.

Beat is the best imo because it justs travels the most distance. Compared to Rush coil as a recovery, Beat gives way more distance and maneuverability (is this the right word? lol) in exchange of being slower. Rush is a determined pattern (straight up) always, you can't change that. It's easier to gimp a fixed pattern over one you can change, like Beat. An experienced player will use a sex kick to knock you off of Rush recovery or hit you at the 1 frame vulnerability, it's pretty easy once you get the timing. There's nothing Mega can do over that.
The distance Rush travels is also limited and means that if you get hit without a double jump you will probably won't get back. This doesn't happen as much but with Beat you always can get back. Beat also lets you go very deep to get a Bair kill.

It's very easy to recover high with Beat (brawl snake style), going into the magnifing glass and then landing with plant barrier or any mixup. Even when recovering low you can force a stage spike which is techable (and it travels so ****ing far that you might make it back even if you miss it lol). There are a few spikes that you have to be wary though, like ROB's, thus I'd probably take Rush against him.

Tornado Hold imo doesn't give enough as a tool to make up for having a trash recovery. Against characters with strong gimps it's just like giving them a free gimp, and Mega doesn't really need it. TH isn't very good in neutral game, it's usable as edgeguard but we can do it fine without it imo.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

1321 is my favorite Mega Man set. I thought it was a popular one. I only switch to 1322 against certain characters.

1331 should take precedence over 1333, I think. Leaf shield is just more practical in most situations.

We should also have 1 set w/ ice slasher. I don't like it, but some people are pretty crazy about it.

I'm also not sure what the point of Shadow Blade is. It seems like an all-around downgrade. Why do we have any sets with it? Am I missing something?

 

[NinjaLink]

Beat is the best imo because it justs travels the most distance. Compared to Rush coil as a recovery, Beat gives way more distance and maneuverability (is this the right word? lol) in exchange of being slower. Rush is a determined pattern (straight up) always, you can't change that. It's easier to gimp a fixed pattern over one you can change, like Beat. An experienced player will use a sex kick to knock you off of Rush recovery or hit you at the 1 frame vulnerability, it's pretty easy once you get the timing. There's nothing Mega can do over that.
The distance Rush travels is also limited and means that if you get hit without a double jump you will probably won't get back. This doesn't happen as much but with Beat you always can get back. Beat also lets you go very deep to get a Bair kill.

It's very easy to recover high with Beat (brawl snake style), going into the magnifing glass and then landing with plant barrier or any mixup. Even when recovering low you can force a stage spike which is techable (and it travels so ****ing far that you might make it back even if you miss it lol). There are a few spikes that you have to be wary though, like ROB's, thus I'd probably take Rush against him.

Tornado Hold imo doesn't give enough as a tool to make up for having a trash recovery. Against characters with strong gimps it's just like giving them a free gimp, and Mega doesn't really need it. TH isn't very good in neutral game, it's usable as edgeguard but we can do it fine without it imo.

And what if you're forced to recover from below with beat? You now are a bigger target as you're recovering slowly upwards. You also have to consider the utility of the up-b besides recovery. Rush gets you out of situations due to how quick it pops you up and using rush coil setups. As for the 1 frame, you dont have to up-b at the same time every time. You're also only going use your double jump as a last resort so in nearly every case you should have it. Tornado hold is pretty good offensively as an anti-air or punishing recoveries. This one is the least likely one to get hit while hugging the stage. Obviously its the worse recovery wise because its offensive. If you dont care about either of the stuff, Beat will probably be your choice. None of the up-b's are unusuable, possibly just matchup dependant.

 

[Greward]

And what if you're forced to recover from below with beat? You now are a bigger target as you're recovering slowly upwards. You also have to consider the utility of the up-b besides recovery. Rush gets you out of situations due to how quick it pops you up and using rush coil setups. As for the 1 frame, you dont have to up-b at the same time every time. You're also only going use your double jump as a last resort so in nearly every case you should have it. Tornado hold is pretty good offensively as an anti-air or punishing recoveries. This one is the least likely one to get hit while hugging the stage. Obviously its the worse recovery wise because its offensive. If you dont care about either of the stuff, Beat will probably be your choice. None of the up-b's are unusuable, possibly just matchup dependant.

You can still recover from below. You have 2 paths, either you go touching the stage while going up (meaning you will be able to walltech anything, plus being a hard place to hit) or if you got jump you can recover while going away and then coming back with double jump. Even if you get hit out of your double jump you will be able to use Beat to recover high.

Rush gets you out of bad positions (although we don't use it that much, kind of like once or twice a set) but so does Beat. Using beat after getting hit will make beat go upwards instantenously. It's not as good since you will get some damage from being in the magnifying glass but it's usable. Rush can place a spring on the ground tho so you lose that if using Beat.

I agree that each upB is matchup situational. Just that in most matchup I think Beat is the best option. I prefer Rush against certain spikes, for example.
TH has enough startup to be able to react to it, and it's quite predictable and on a miss it doesn't leave you in a good position. Mega Man has plenty of anti air options (Fair is pretty much designed for that), and I believe TH is super predictable. And it has a very sucky recovery distance wise. I don't think it's good, maybe in some matchups it may be. When I used it I didn't get a lot out of it.

 

[p1ay6ack]

yo greward, i just saw your set against a shiek.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIaiiZrmSmM&index=3&list=PLs2w0Dh2TuFRQC4x1YpjW6Nwm5G6GkTis this got me so hype xD i've played the shiek matchup and i feel so mentally drained from it! LOL. i'm surprised the shiek player wasn't even trying to needle camp you