Meta Custom Moveset Project: Mega Man

[---]

The original thread was a mess so a revamp is in order.

NSUD

Neutral:
1 - Metal Blade
2 - Hyper Bomb
3 - Shadow Blade

Side:
1 - Crash Bomber
2 - Ice Slasher
3 - Danger Wrap

Up:
1 - Rush Coil
2 - Tornado Hold
3 - Beat

Down:
1 - Leaf Shield
2 - Skull Barrier
3 - Plant Barrier


http://smashboards.com/threads/official-custom-moveset-project-summer-2015-edition-evo-sets.395721/

Current Sets (As of March 2015):
1313
1312
1311
1323
1322
1112
1122
3323
3313
1333

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

1312 should be heavily considered and added to the poll since Skull Barrier has better uses in matchups where MegaMan struggles to get in.
Skull Barrier is the fastest of all his down B's in startup, shooting speed and how long it takes to disappear.

 

[Kel]

1312 is my loadout. I have won a tournament and placed well in the others using this loadout. It is all-around great.

 

[Greward]

The only one i would ever want to use out of these is 1311. Pretty standard.

1312 should be a thing, also imo 1331 for some matchups we can afford the extra gimpability in exchange of extra recovery.

Plant barrier feels worse than leaf shield so I wouldn't put it in. I'd also never play anything that isn't Metal Blade as the neutral special but I can see shadow blade being a thing. Tornado hold makes us have a very bad recovery (distance-wise) so I wouldn't go for it, although maybe there's some new strats with it so it's worth the try.
Danger Wrap is super good, I'd go with it pretty much always.

 

[MegaTuks]

1312 should be considered as a loadout for megaman, i think is a very good option
Danger Wrap and Skull barrier really has a lot of potential.

 

[---]

I think I goofed when I listed 1321 as it's wasn't listed in the current six sets. Changed it back to 1312.

Sorry about that.

 

[Funkermonster]

Just unlocked Shadow Blade yesterday and I love it... would use any set with it, so I vote 3311, don't really care about the Hyper Bombs.

Skull Barrier is pretty nice too, since it helped me against people playing Villager and prevents them from using projectiles while I have it out. If Villager rides his rocket into me, Skull Barrier still pushes him back and makes him fall to his death. Sees like he can only recover with UpB then.

Haven't unlocked Danger Wrap, but would like to considering how everyone seems to love it.

 

[Teshie U]

I can't think of anyone we need skull barrier against, but it might make the ditto more interesting.

 

[Knight Dude]

Looks like most people agree that his standard set is good enough, but that the Danger Wrap is the best Side-B. I agree for the most part. It's a great anti-air move for him. Though I like to use 1321(Metal Blade/Danger Wrap/Tornado Hold/Leaf Shield) personally. But 1311 is better for recovery.

 

[Funkermonster]

I can't think of anyone we need skull barrier against, but it might make the ditto more interesting.

Who Skull Barrier can work against:
(doesn't work against her Fully Charged Shots though)

May not be as useful as Leaf Shield, but I think it has its use in select matchups

 

[ChopperDave]

I've come around on Skull Barrier and think it deserves a spot. It swings the match from obnoxious to trivial. Probably worth taking against similarly campy characters with kill set ups involving a range attack. (Yes, that includes )

I don't really see the value of the Metal Blade variants. Sure they're good moves, but Metal Blade is a GREAT move.

I do want to try to experiment more with Tornado Hold... it seems like it could have some interesting offstage applications, and it is isn't bad OOS.

1311, 1312, and 1112 get the most play from me, in that order.

 

[Teshie U]

How fast is tornado hold? It doesn't look like it would be any better than grab/upsmash OoS.

If skull barrier loses to full charge shot what is the point? Missles aren't threatening to Megaman. Charge shot is what breaks our zoning game, and leaf shield can help exploit her close up anyway.

 

[ChopperDave]

How fast is tornado hold? It doesn't look like it would be any better than grab/upsmash OoS.

If skull barrier loses to full charge shot what is the point? Missles aren't threatening to Megaman. Charge shot is what breaks our zoning game, and leaf shield can help exploit her close up anyway.

(1) I don't have the frame data. It's reasonably quick I guess. You're right that it's not functionally much different than usmash OOS. I think that its hitbox is a little more forgiving, though. And the Tornado Hold > Danger Wrap followup has the potential to kill earlier, particularly on stages like Halberd.

I think Tornado Hold has the potential to be more interesting at the ledge, though. Theoretically, you can drop a Tornado Hold in front of the ledge to stop a ledge snap attempt, then follow up with Danger Wrap or bair.

(2) I find Charge Shot's interaction with a Skull Barrier to be... weird. The conventional wisdom on that move may not be 100% correct. Having played around with SB in the Samus matchup, I've seen SB reflect some max Charge Shots and fail to reflect others. I think that it may have something to do with max Charge Shot's hitbox being so large--it could be that max CS often touches MM's hurtboxes before it touches one of the SB's reflect boxes. The key thing is that SB is not reliable enough to use on reaction, but on prediction it can still be pretty good, as you can put up your shield and let that take the hit if your SB fails.

Anyway, I like SB in this matchup because it turns missiles and bombs against Samus. Rather than being something I have to constantly be on guard against while approaching, they become risky moves for her to use. It may be a mostly psychological advantage, but it tends to make Samus players less aggressive with their projectile spam, which is ideal.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Accidental double post. Sorry!

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

I find Charge Shot's interaction with a Skull Barrier to be... weird. The conventional wisdom on that move may not be 100% correct. Having played around with SB in the Samus matchup, I've seen SB reflect some max Charge Shots and fail to reflect others. I think that it may have something to do with max Charge Shot's hitbox being so large--it could be that max CS often touches MM's hurtboxes before it touches one of the SB's reflect boxes. The key thing is that SB is not reliable enough to use on reaction, but on prediction it can still be pretty good, as you can put up your shield and let that take the hit if your SB fails.

I've had similar results, though I heard that it won't reflect a Max Charge shot when it's fresh, dealing the 26% it does in a real match and not the 25% in Training.
Can anyone confirm this?

 

[ChopperDave]

What's the point of the 2222 and 3333 sets, exactly? I can't see myself ever taking one of those when the 1311 set is right over there.

I get that this decision is above our pay grades, but it just seems like a waste to me. Freeing up those two slots might allow for some less popular sets like 3311 to make it through. (I'd never use this set myself and didn't vote for it, but it would be cool to see people finding a way to make it viable and using it in tournaments.)

 

[Tornado_Man]

1312 is my vote. The Skull Barrier combined with the ability to hold a Metal Blade as an item is just too good. Plus Danger Wrap is more useful than Crash Bomb in my opinion

 

[Kel]

I get the feeling that 1312 would have a higher percentage if it was an option at the beginning of the poll.

 

[mega4000]

After a lot of matches against good players I've to say that Dangre Wrap is 100% superior to crash bomb. Even against villager pac-man and rosalina, the potential to have a safe killing move, plus cancel their air aproches is too superior and if you use your pellets like a boss, crash bomb is completly useless. You can start spacing by going short hop backward, foward danger wrap and then use metal blade or pellets while you wait for danger wrap to recharge. It's a really safe aproach and can get you the double danger wrap alot of times.
1313
1323
These are my two favorite sets.

 

[Overswarm]

1312, 1313, and 1311 are going to be the most common. Plant shield is better than leaf shield in most situations except it comes out slightly slower. They are mostly interchangeable, but leaf shield has a few irritating weaknesses not present with plant shield.

I've tinkered with Beat as a recovery option and it actually might become my standard if all goes well. Rush is getting harder and harder to use against matchups that can actually cause difficulty, but Beat allows you to go out waaaaaaaay deep and still make it back to the stage. Get edgeguarded? You'd be edgeguarded with Rush anyway and with Beat you just come back again ala Snake.

 

[mega4000]

1312, 1313, and 1311 are going to be the most common. Plant shield is better than leaf shield in most situations except it comes out slightly slower. They are mostly interchangeable, but leaf shield has a few irritating weaknesses not present with plant shield.

I've tinkered with Beat as a recovery option and it actually might become my standard if all goes well. Rush is getting harder and harder to use against matchups that can actually cause difficulty, but Beat allows you to go out waaaaaaaay deep and still make it back to the stage. Get edgeguarded? You'd be edgeguarded with Rush anyway and with Beat you just come back again ala Snake.

the problem with beat is that his weakness are the meteors. Beat is so gimpeable!

 

[Tornado_Man]

the problem with beat is that his weakness are the meteors. Beat is so gimpeable!

Plus you can't bounce off him to recover from a meteor unlike Rush. Beat is great but I'd prefer not to get gimped so.

 

[Overswarm]

I have found it less gimpable, although Rush is still better in certain matchups. The more I've played, the more I'm getting gimped by characters who realize how easy it is to gimp megaman. When I have to rely on a wall tech it's bad news!

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

I've had similar results, though I heard that it won't reflect a Max Charge shot when it's fresh, dealing the 26% it does in a real match and not the 25% in Training.
Can anyone confirm this?

The skull barrier can reflect anything, including fresh, full charge, Samus charge shots.

The trick to it is using the first skull that appears floating in front of Mega man to reflect. SB begins reflecting almost immediately when you input down b, so the best timing to reflect enemy projectiles is before the skulls start orbiting around Mega man. Also, the speed at which that first skull appears and begins reflecting is more than enough to use it on reaction. I was able to reflect fully charged Samus charge shots from 1/3 FD distance away with relative ease. It does, however, lose the ability to reflect if thrown.

 

[mega4000]

The skull barrier can reflect anything, including fresh, full charge, Samus charge shots.

The trick to it is using the first skull that appears floating in front of Mega man to reflect. SB begins reflecting almost immediately when you input down b, so the best timing to reflect enemy projectiles is before the skulls start orbiting around Mega man. Also, the speed at which that first skull appears and begins reflecting is more than enough to use it on reaction. I was able to reflect fully charged Samus charge shots from 1/3 FD distance away with relative ease. It does, however, lose the ability to reflect if thrown.

The Skull barrier will be a must against a good Lucario in a flat stage. Imagine the lucario running away and using his ball all the time, knowing what he is doing, plus the skull barrier reflects his side b (aura) too.

Also, I vote for 1323 and 1322. Those two are a must, because plant barrier plus tornado hold is a very good combination: use tornado hold and release plant barrier at the apex, you will land with no lag and will get a free grab if you used tornado hold on your opponent.

I can't think of anyone we need skull barrier against, but it might make the ditto more interesting.

Lucario, seriously in a flat stage a running away lucario who is good can be your worst nightmare, specially if he gets your metal blade.
Also If you want an easy win use it against villager, it reflects his dash attack and foward smash.

 

[Funkermonster]

I nominate 1311, 3311, and 1312. I thought of trying out 3313 myself personally.

 

[Blade Knight]

1322 is my preferred setup and the one I use against any character with prevelant projectiles, Skull barrier is a must imo. 1321 is generally more useful though because leaf shield allows for gimps and the usual stuff. I personally feel Tornado Hold is Mega Man's best recovery option. It's got some protection and while it's still linear it's safer overall than Rush coil. I can see the appeal of beat in some matchups, I just hate not being able to act or cancel him in any way. 2321 and 2322 have niche uses as well, but typically I'd go Blades>Bombs.

 

[Overswarm]

I'm using Beat exclusively now. 1332 and 1333 are so good.

 

[mega4000]

I'm using Beat exclusively now. 1332 and 1333 are so good.

well, at least with beat you can go under final destination easily.

 

[Overswarm]

well, at least with beat you can go under final destination easily.

and you don't get stage spiked or gimped when you're hit out of your second jump. Snake recovery!

 

[Peabnut Bubber]

Our current six sets on the official custom moveset project thread are pretty inefficient. For reference, these are the current six:

1311
1112
1113
1312
1313
1121

Okay, so we have one set dedicated entirely to Plant Barrier and another set just for Tornado Hold. We also don't have a single Beat set OR an Ice Slasher set. The differences between Leaf Shield and Plant Barrier rarely affect a match, and I haven't seen anyone really advocate the use of Tornado Hold at all. I suggest a list like this:

1312
1313
1333
1213
1112
1132

This gives us:
3 Danger Wrap sets, the same amount as the current list.
1 Ice Slasher set, as opposed to 0.
2 Beat sets, as opposed to 0.
3 Skull Barrier sets, as opposed to 2.

Thoughts?

 

[Overswarm]

Ice slasher is worthless. It's incredibly laggy, does poor damage, and can't be reliably followed up on.

For our shields, its mostly preference -- leaf or plant, but we'll always need a skull shield option. So having 1333 means you also need 1332.

 

[Peabnut Bubber]

Ice Slasher is niche. For instance, it can be used against G&W because he can bucket our Crash Bomber and and Danger Wrap, but not the Slasher. We can't fit a variation of everything, so instead of 1332 to accompany 1333, I have 1312 to accompany 1313 since Rush is more commonly used than Beat. I aim to be efficient, unlike the previous list which had 1311, 1313, and 1113.

 

[mega4000]

Ice Slasher is niche. For instance, it can be used against G&W because he can bucket our Crash Bomber and and Danger Wrap, but not the Slasher. We can't fit a variation of everything, so instead of 1332 to accompany 1333, I have 1312 to accompany 1313 since Rush is more commonly used than Beat. I aim to be efficient, unlike the previous list which had 1311, 1313, and 1113.

believe me, not having tornado hold is a Sin, specially if you don't combine it with plant barrier and danger wrap.

 

[Peabnut Bubber]

believe me, not having tornado hold is Sin, specially if you don't combine it with plant barrier and danger wrap.

In that case, our current tornado hold set is still inefficient.

 

[Anomilus]

I really don't want six variations to all involve using Metal Blades. That we're promoting such centralization around the move means Shadow Blades/Hyper Bomb aren't going to get the attention they deserve. Heck, Shadow Blades already is least explored of the three Neutrals. Yeah it's straightforward and has less range and damage than MB. I just like having the option of not potentially handing my opponent my item, instead having a projectile that can still hold them down but is more spammable .

Instead it's "how can we fit all our other moves around Metal Blades". Oh, rather not use MB? Too bad, out of luck, BYO3DS.

At this point I'm kind of hoping we can be allowed slots 7 and 8. Right now they're apparently reserved for people to take customs for a test run, but I feel people can do that on their own system on their own time, or at the least not every system needs to be given that set.

 

[ChopperDave]

I really don't want six variations to all involve using Metal Blades. That we're promoting such centralization around the move means Shadow Blades/Hyper Bomb aren't going to get the attention they deserve. Heck, Shadow Blades already is least explored of the three Neutrals. Yeah it's straightforward and has less range and damage than MB. I just like having the option of not potentially handing my opponent my item, instead having a projectile that can still hold them down but is more spammable .

Instead it's "how can we fit all our other moves around Metal Blades". Oh, rather not use MB? Too bad, out of luck, BYO3DS.

At this point I'm kind of hoping we can be allowed slots 7 and 8. Right now they're apparently reserved for people to take customs for a test run, but I feel people can do that on their own system on their own time, or at the least not every system needs to be given that set.

On the one hand, I hear you, there may be some potential to Hyper Bomb and Shadow Blade that we're just not seeing. Hyper Bomb has some interesting qualities when it comes to z-dropping and glide tossing, and Shadow Blade has some combo potential with MM's otherwise very unsafe kill moves.

On the other hand, I've tried all 3 Neutral B variations in friendlies and Metal Blade just seems to be the best, no contest. It just has a lot of useful qualities that the others don't have: speed, power, range, ability to easily convert to item form, proven combo potential (including the now infamous MB -> utilt combo).

Hyper Bomb is just too slow and cumbersome. It's hard to use against anyone putting on an even a little pressure, telegraphed and easily avoided at a distance, and difficult to get into your hands as an item.

Shadow Blade is weak and lacks range. Yeah, you can sometimes use it to trap opponents into a utilt or usmash, but you can do the same thing with diagonally thrown MB and item MB, respectively. You give up the power and versatility of item MB (including all the fun z-dropping and glide tossing approaches and end guards). In exchange, you get a short range projectile that can't get caught but will still get beaten by many dash attacks and aerials. Just not worth taking IMO.

If there's one move I think this board is sleeping on, I think it's Tornado Hold. Lot of edgeguard and stage control potential there.

 

[Overswarm]

Shadowblade is punishable on shield :|

 

[Peabnut Bubber]

If there's one move I think this board is sleeping on, I think it's Tornado Hold.

Do a Tornado Hold guide.

 

[ChopperDave]

Do a Tornado Hold guide.

Too poor for a capture card! If I put one up it'll probably just end up being another wall of text