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Guide CunningKitsune's Guide to Ace Arwing Pilot Fox McCloud

brickman

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
1,282
Location
Kansas City, MO
Phenomenal guide, I read it in its entirety. I became very interested with using fox after I figured out how to waveshine every time, man it is rewarding. I mainly play sheik and marth, but I might have to start playing fox just for the mega technical fun.

Thanks for making the guide again.
 

Hoefler

311
BRoomer
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Jun 19, 2004
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Normal, IL / Carlsbad, CA
Best guide on the boards, that's for sure.

I read the whole thing, but I have to agree with RTD that there are too many words :/ You explained fox's normal A attack with almost 500 words! =/! As a result, not too many people will read all of it.

Secondly, I recommend you use the 'Star' systems to help rate Fox's matchups.

*= Piece of cake, you can't lost
**= You have the advantage here
***= Even match
****= You're at a disadvantage here
*****= You're kinda ****-outta-luck here; pick another char :/

Thanks for the guide, lots of good work =)

Hold on, let me take out my noob broom here.

who the fart is RTD. please don't bring up old people who you don't know. and she's dead.

no where in the guide would there be a need to give 4 or 5 stars. fox has no bad matchups.

lol, just realized 5150's response was there....

yeah so get froed man.

enlarge that e-***** boy.
 

Airdeius

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
25
hey how do you do the tanunt ut corneria with fot i know where to stand i forgot what to push
 
Joined
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Messages
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hey how do you do the tanunt ut corneria with fot i know where to stand i forgot what to push

Incorrect iNinTenDude..They actual way to do it is to hit hit down on the D-pad within around 4 frames(A frame is 1/60 of a second).

In other words,tap down on the d-pad VERY quickly,most people slide their thumb off the bottom.^^

(Is that the correct amount of frames BTW?)
 

CunningKitsune

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2004
Messages
747
Location
Saint John, IN
It's actually a single-frame input on the d-pad. Just hit down for one frame. Easy! :D

Anyway, to anybody who has e-mailed me in the past couple of months or so, I apologize for not being able to answer for such a long time. The academics really kept me pinned throughout the entire first part of the semester, and to top it all off, I for some reason or another can't send e-mails from my dorm; I can only receive them. Yeah, random. But I'm heading back home for spring break, and once there I will be able to respond to your e-mails. Just sit tight for a bit longer.
 

_Phloat_

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
2,953
Location
Tennessee V_V
Thanks a lot Kitsune, been watching a lot of you and Masashi, and I am about to go to INNsomnia IV... Where I will play fox. **** shame you spent all this time on the guide and the tiers go and change, shiek ain't no top tier no mo.... >_>

Anyways, That really does not matter, because fox himself has not gone through a lot of changes..

Thanks for the help, and this may be an odd question, but how do you hold the controller :)

The Claw, or conventionally., I use a combination due to the speed required for that waveshine :)
 

KingJiggyWiggy

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Apr 12, 2007
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I will never tell. :D
g. Infinite Forward-Reverse Waveshine (Peach, Link, and Zelda only)

What it is: Shining one of these characters, then wavedashing to the other side
of them, where you shine them again and wavedash to the other side, and so on.

How to do it: This infinite relies on a very quick forward and reverse
waveshine, so be quick with that as it is the only way to perform this.

Breakdown: You must perform the dual waveshines extremely quickly in order to
catch these characters before their traction pulls them too far away for you to
continue any longer. Do your best to perform perfect wavedashes to give your-
self the best chance at clearing your opponent.
Do you have to walk to actually get in front of them? I tried this and I have even put the game on half speed but even with the perfect wavedash Fox still can't get past them.

Is there a video for this? If there is, I can't find it.
 

CunningKitsune

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2004
Messages
747
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Saint John, IN
Yeah, I'm not too clear on the specifics of that one. Just looking at it, however, it would seem that one would have to do one of two things: either incorporate walking (as you stated) or get out of the shine as quickly as possible such that you intercept your opponent before they slide too far away for you to continue.

In the end, though, this is nothing more than eye candy, and I highly advise against actually trying to work this into your game before getting other, far more important techniques well under your fingers. Still more incentive is the fact that it only works on one truly tournament-viable character, and that, should you desire to pull off something similar to this, inverted drill shines are far easier and far more consistent. Do what you will, though; I can only advise.

And no, I don't think that there is a video of this. Like I said, don't put too much stock into it.
 

Professor Pro

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You know when your runnin to someone and you crouch cancel b4 u reach them so they think ur goin to attack them. wouldn't it look more effective if you were to wavedash down as you stop right in the spot. or is there a difference in lag time i cannot tell
 

KingJiggyWiggy

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I will never tell. :D
Hmmm. I found out that the infinite forward-reverse shine is indeed possible. I did it once after trying it again a few days ago. You just have to move....really....fast....and perfect....
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
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Mar 16, 2007
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yeah, of course it's possible, that's why it's in his guide.

Cunning, another infinite, that isn't listed in your guide is the shl wallshine infinite. you can shff out of a shine into another shine against a wall, and it will combo. also, if you're pretty good at it, you can even throw in an shl. both of these require fastfalling.
 

Boolossus

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
587
Location
Lemon County, CA
"Fox is not for you if:
1. You are a slow player by nature.
2. You have slow fingers.
3. You do not think quickly.
4. You do not like winning. It will happen a lot with Fox.
5. You do not want to use high-tier characters. Fox is currently second in the
tiers behind Sheik.
6. You want to be decent quickly. That's why Sheik is here.
7. You think power beats speed every time. Yeah, better think about that
again.
8. You like raw power instead of blistering speed. You should be Ganondorf,
Bowser, or the like.
9. You hate characters with very sensitive controls.

Barring that stuff, you should enjoy playing as the lightning quick Fox. With
time, you will become nearly unstoppable with the vulpine. If you don't have
all that much time, Fox has a simple solution for you: blaster spamming. Works
every time."


-_- @ # 6... Every character takes skill to use. Someone can get decent just as quickly with Fox, Falco or Marth as they could with Sheik... It all depends on how you play.

Fox might be a little more technical than alot of other characters, but after a little time with him, you'll have a good handle on his controls.
 

_kSo_

Smash Master
Joined
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Los Angeles, CA
I <3 CK :p

also person above me, wtf are you talking about?

although every character takes skill to be GOOD at, however starting off, certain characters are much easier to win with than others. such as kirby in n64 smash or pikachu. they're equivalent to shiek and marth and the like.

i'm not saying marth players or shiek players don't work hard at their game, but i know for a fact that beginner fox/falco players are not as good as beginner marth/shiek players.
 

Oskurito

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Hmmm. I found out that the infinite forward-reverse shine is indeed possible. I did it once after trying it again a few days ago. You just have to move....really....fast....and perfect....
Against what character are you trying it? It's not that hard and you don't need the perfect wavedash if you're doing it against peach for example just waveshine as long as you can walk then shine again shineturn around and keep going(you can even waveshine backwards then turn around>shine and it still comboes)
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
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Its not applicable in a real battle. Have any of you ever faced a GOOD Peach that knows how to D.I./smash D.i?

If they do know how, I think that if they Di the shine far enough you can't get past them, even with the perfect wavedash. However, if one manages to walk a bit after the Wd and make it to the other side, that lucky person will be at the mercy of Peaches amazing Dsmash.

Like CK said. Doing things for show = not good for your gameoplay
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
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It's not hard to SDI out of. I know a few peaches who can SDI shines consistently. Makes it hard to just waveshine in one direction.
 

Oskurito

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If they SDI or ASDI the dair I do a ftilt or jab depending in how further they've gone after the dair.
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
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it's true, i've recently realized that the utilt and Ftilt can combo out of a drill kick. If they go behind you, utilt, if they go in front of you ftilt/ jab. (i didn't actually read exactly what Oskurito's post is in response to, since it's on the last page, but i'm assuming it's drillshining.)

Hm... it appears he's responding to topics of cruel waveshining... but there's no Dair involved... but anyway, what i said works when drillshining.
 

Oskurito

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it's true, i've recently realized that the utilt and Ftilt can combo out of a drill kick. If they go behind you, utilt, if they go in front of you ftilt/ jab. (i didn't actually read exactly what Oskurito's post is in response to, since it's on the last page, but i'm assuming it's drillshining.)

Hm... it appears he's responding to topics of cruel waveshining... but there's no Dair involved... but anyway, what i said works when drillshining.
LOL I didn't even look at what I've writed >_> but yeah it combos... You do need advice on combos dude...
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
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scotu said:
it's true, i've recently realized that the utilt and Ftilt can combo out of a drill kick
They can shield grab you after your drill if you land in front of them right?

&Won't a Sh bair from a spacey or Up B from Samus/Marth beat the utilt?
 

pieisamazing

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
61
Location
Nebraska
Wow! Great guide! I'm trying to pick up Fox because Zelda and Sheik take too little technical skill. Not to say that I'm the best at shuffling, wavedashing, etc, but I'm working on it. I'm going to work on watching my opponent to plan my next move instead of my own character.

EDIT: I always spell Sheik wrong, doh >>
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
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I'm trying to pick up Fox because Zelda and Sheik take too little technical skill.
No such thing. Fox requires more tech skill just to play at the same level as a zelda/ sheik, but the additional flashy stuff is, well, just flashy. Look at PC's fox, not very flashy at all, but the best fox in the nation.
 

pieisamazing

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
61
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Nebraska
No such thing. Fox requires more tech skill just to play at the same level as a zelda/ sheik, but the additional flashy stuff is, well, just flashy. Look at PC's fox, not very flashy at all, but the best fox in the nation.
I dunno. [To me] wavedashing with any sort of consistancy, shining at the right times, SHL, and shuffling seem "flashy" to me. = \ Then again, I'm a noob. But why bother playing Fox when one can just be on an even playing field by choosing Sheik? I don't care about infinites and that type of thing, just what can help me win (we all like that). Oh, I know that PC took on Ken with Falco, but I've seen videos of his Fox and it didn't seem as good as others. The videos were a bit dated so, meh = \
 

v3x?

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
435
it's true, i've recently realized that the utilt and Ftilt can combo out of a drill kick. If they go behind you, utilt, if they go in front of you ftilt/ jab. (i didn't actually read exactly what Oskurito's post is in response to, since it's on the last page, but i'm assuming it's drillshining.)

Hm... it appears he's responding to topics of cruel waveshining... but there's no Dair involved... but anyway, what i said works when drillshining.
Mm i've got videos up of me utilizing its advantages against falco in particular. Although i use a pivoted utilt to get a bair in.
 
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