Crouching against Tornado *now with in game demonstration*

[Sensei Seibrik]

I reacted to the tornado, i did it in a couple other matches as well in slightly different situations based on reaction, its do-able/safe


and halberd, guess who told chops that!


and guess who told me that to be honest, HRNUT

at CLASH OF THE TITANS (before any of this)


that's how i know where it came from, i just didnt apply it till now. (since im taking snake seriously)

 

[OverLade]

HRNUT is so nationally underrated lol. Whenever I ask someone who they think the best Snakes are they forget about him lol.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

dont forget about me...

 

[Infern Angelis]

I have been crouching since months ago lol never seen a video of someone doing it but I figured it was a well know tactic. If the MK is at high percentage, i usually follow with an up-tilt while he is on top of me, most MKs wont fall for the fsmash.

 

[Berserker.]

HRNUT is so nationally underrated lol

Ouch, good thing he doesn't know this

So this technique is that you crouch under tornado then U-tilt
or
Footstool tornado then b-air or u-air?

Seems useful anyway

 

[OverLade]

I said Underated, not overated lol. How is that an ouch?

There are a few techniques listed in this thread. This was mainly about crouching under the tornado but I believe footstooling Tornado is equally important to the metagame. I'll upload some demonstration videos soon.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I still think its really important that we figure out how to reverse nade inside tornado consistently.

 

[Attila_]

i was playing with this a day or two ago and basically found that if i mashed 'b' hard enough at reasonable damage (like 100%ish) i could pull out a nade fairly consistently. it only wouldnt hit him if i was in the side of the nade (thus when b-reverse) would be necessary. but you have to mash fast. like, really fast.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

so turns out I misread EY's frame data thread, turns out crouching has IASA frams starting at frame 3, so that means you can react pretty quickly.

 

[Attila_]

have we got any conclusions about b-reversing nades inside the nado yet? like, is it better to be in the middle, outside, top or bottom? should i be mashing 'b' and left/right as much as possible? etc etc

 

[Yumewomiteru]

idk, havent being able to get some1 to help me test this.

 

[Limeee]

i'm going to a tournament tomorrow, i'll try and test some of this with our regions 2nd best player alphicans

(or anybody else really, tornado'ing isn't a super AT or anything)

 

[OverLade]

Day 2 of winterfest.

I played a friendly with MK. I did really well, but more importantly, the video is saved, and I HEAVILY used crouching under tornado to save my shield and negate high tornadoing completely. I'll ask him if he's alright with me uploading the whole match, and if not, I'll take pieces from it to make a demonstration video.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

idk, havent being able to get some1 to help me test this.

Idea. Beginning of tornado has larger than normal knockback that could lead to you getting out. So SDI that, and reverse nade after it.

 

[OverLade]

Stay tuned for that video, I'm serious, it'll blow your minds.

I also saw Ally do some cool stuff that I'll post. I think the matchup could possibly be in Snakes favor, especially on FD.

 

[CO18]

*tries this with ddd

Also u know u aint mainin no snake

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

lol halberd, ur snake my mk, 50 dollar mm LETS GO

 

[Yumewomiteru]

*tries this with ddd

How dat work fer you?

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

im pretty sure ddd gets bigger when crouching

 

[napZzz]

I'm pretty sure snake vs. mk is gonna be 6/4 mk soon imo

edit: But I still like this crouching thing <3

 

[Master Raven]

I think the matchup at the moment is 55-45 MK, Snake can do ok on the ground but once he gets grabbed and is in the air or off-stage, and the MK knows the best options vs Snake at that point, he's butt****ed. Snake's aerial game is a major problem with the matchup, on top of that he has little to no safe pokes.

 

[etecoon]

I think the matchup could possibly be in Snakes favor, especially on FD.

I thought you didn't play wifi anymore : p

 

[.decoy]

vidsvidsvids

 

[OverLade]

lol halberd, ur snake my mk, 50 dollar mm LETS GO

20$ Best of 9?

 

[xxTerminatorxx]

Nintendo didn't give Snake enough violent weapons, they should of given him his RPG, Stinger Sniper Rifle, Stun Grenades, Stun Knives, and his handy dandy Silenced Pistol. I hope hackers can add a little window next to Snake (on the CSS) that says "Customize Weapons" that allows you to change the legendary soldier's weapons to make him a more effective character. If he had his RPG, it wouldn't be to hard for him to blow Meta Knight out of the sky.

I mean, really, if Snake had all of his regular gear from Metal Gear Solid, he could change on the Character Select Screen, who knows what new options for him could be opened up.

Also I (Snake) squared off against my friend (Meta Knight) and it was one of those hacked stages I made that arn't flat. He did pretty good at inflicting damage (he heavily overused Tornado) but couldn't seem to launch me that high in the air. I used some grenades to attack him and it reversed the attack, which inflicting damage to him, leaving him open to an attack by me. I do agree Snake dosn't do well in the air, but he should be the master of Airial attacks, just like Captain Falcon is (who is my 2nd favorate character.)

 

[napZzz]

20$ Best of 9?

doing a best of 9 with snake vs. mk......

got cp's?

 

[6Mizu]

ummmm....wow.
This thread is still actually going? lol
any way....against MK CP:
-Castle Seige
-FD
-Halberd
-Japes?

 

[Veggi]

Sorry to rez this thread, but there's some tactic that Japan's best Snake uses against MK that looks pretty useful. He holds grenades and approaches backwards making it so all of MK's attacks are more likely to detonate the grenade. Dropping the grenades places them behind Snake as well. I'm not sure if this has been thought about much yet. If it has...sorry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pfhQa2Ie_0

He crouches under the nado as well.

 

[Attila_]

ive been discussing this aspect of snake's play ever since arriving in japan... and i put that vid up btw. not new, but people havent really started doing it.

either way, i would like to know about what to do when ive already gone and got caught in the nado. anything new?

 

[Veggi]

Oh, I saw it on another site. They must have gotten that from you.

 

[Infern Angelis]

He holds grenades and approaches backwards making it so all of MK's attacks are more likely to detonate the grenade.

This really is a great tactic, although smart MKs will just go for a grab or wait for ur spotdodge. Anywho i thought this tactic was widely known already

 

[Nic64]

Reverse grenades are good but it only changes your protected area horizontally, your feet and head are still vulnerable.

 

[OverLade]

When approaching backwards with grenades you actually have a few options.

The move obvious ones being sidestep and roll. You can also Bair, uair and Dair OOS. All of which will result in you picking up the grenade in the process. I couldn't really say specifically when to approach backwards vs. forwards, but most people move backwards when they intend to drop a grenade and roll away.

Also I'm sorry for taking so long on this. I've been trying to upload videos from recent tournaments and have only now been able to get down to it, which is why I havent made an instructional video for this. Hopefully my friendly with M2K will be uploaded soon so I can show how this is definitely relevant at high level play.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

If you have these replays you can send them to me and I can upload them.

 

[Attila_]

any updates on this? would love to actually know how to do it consistently... i was thinking perhaps it had something to do with di-ing to the middle or the outside?

oh, and this olimar consistently whistles the last hit of the nado. perhaps this is where we can reliably pull out a nade for cheap damage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFEUH4rOHtc

ill get to asking him in the next couple of days on how to do it... western oli's cant work it out either.

 

[OverLade]

I have matches saved on my wii with it in display, I just need to stop being lazy and get around to organizing/uploading them.

When I make an instructional video it'll include.

-Crouching under Nado
-Reverse nading while in Nado
-Reverse nading as you fall into nado
-footstooling tornado

I'll try to include random stuff that I see that isn't very well known also. If you keep reminding me Ill get it up quickly....mabye.

 

[RATED]

When approaching backwards with grenades you actually have a few options.

The move obvious ones being sidestep and roll. You can also Bair, uair and Dair OOS. All of which will result in you picking up the grenade in the process. I couldn't really say specifically when to approach backwards vs. forwards, but most people move backwards when they intend to drop a grenade and roll away.

Also I'm sorry for taking so long on this. I've been trying to upload videos from recent tournaments and have only now been able to get down to it, which is why I havent made an instructional video for this. Hopefully my friendly with M2K will be uploaded soon so I can show how this is definitely relevant at high level play.

actually when u approach backwards with granades , perfect spaced MK Dtilts when u aproach forward granade won't explode ur granades , but when backwards they do, the same with nado. against MK I consider this a viable thing to do. not all the time but varying forward or backwards. also I think this might work against Marth's Dtilt.

 

[Attila_]

that video would be much appreciated RH...

 

[OverLade]

actually when u approach backwards with granades , perfect spaced MK Dtilts when u aproach forward granade won't explode ur granades , but when backwards they do, the same with nado. against MK I consider this a viable thing to do. not all the time but varying forward or backwards. also I think this might work against Marth's Dtilt.

Yeah I listed those options because most of the time when people approach MK backwards they're thinking defensively, I was just listing offensive options. If you continue to only to defensive things from approaching with a nade you become predictable (many snakes move backwards then roll away from the grenade, or sidestep, many players will pick up on this and then wait for it and punish).

And I'm actually working on a snake combo video as well atm. I'll be sure to get the video up before I finish it (should be before the end of the week).

 

[RATED]

Yeah I listed those options because most of the time when people approach MK backwards they're thinking defensively, I was just listing offensive options. If you continue to only to defensive things from approaching with a nade you become predictable (many snakes move backwards then roll away from the grenade, or sidestep, many players will pick up on this and then wait for it and punish).
And I'm actually working on a snake combo video as well atm. I'll be sure to get the video up before I finish it (should be before the end of the week).

that's why I said varying between backwards and facing ur oponent. also u can just press shield , bair , get the granade at hand. and also Z drop it if u want.