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critique my tourney matches please

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
2nd match is a marth vs falcon in which i get owned. This was my first tourney trying to actually use my marth more than my fox, but i'm still pretty bad with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCOs-uT58zA

I wish the sets in which I was knocked out were recorded. I was pretty destroyed by a fox named hazzard, and was knocked out by my friend shaden in loser's eventually.


particularly, what could I have done at 5:40 after my bair hit. what were my best options. Could i have grabbed him before he reached me? I didn't have time to dash dance since my bair OOS didn't tip. I guess retreating nair would have been safer?
 

Gannonspetmoblin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
187
wel i'm pretty bad with marth so i don't have much to comment on, though i think you should know that you were not even using marth at 5:40 (or even using a bair at any time at :40)
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
Well, the start of the match was your typical "well, that's just cause your opponent read you like a book" thing. But after that.

2:27 Falcon jumped. Why did you ledge hop a nair in that situation? This time you got away with it but....

2:34 You did it again. He wasn't even close to you, you just did the nair as a reflex. Uair would've just torn through him and landed you a free grab (in addition to you not getting hit, which is always a good thing.

2:44 Well, that was a pretty bad situation anyway, but ledgehopping an airdodge is typically not a good idea when the opponent is just voluntarily dash dancing outside of his own range anyway. It's too easy to just punish on reaction. Wavelanding or even just doing an empty ledgehop here would've been better (and the empty ledgehop would probably throw him off too)

2:46 You had already used your floaty B so I don't know why you did it here. Your best bet would've been to wait and try to hit him with your up B straight off the bat instead of using that side B at all.

2:53-3:07 React faster with your tech chases. You waited such a long time after watching him tech, when a faster reaction would gurantee you another grab without him even having the CHANCE to escape given the position you were in. And don't tech chase with untipped f-smashes (or f-smashes AT ALL at such low percents really, unless there's nothing else that can reach in time or something)

3:16 Aw come on man! Tip your fairs! That was a great combo opportunity that would've easily turned that situation around if you had just tipped that fair.

3:17 If you're going to tech chase with f-smash, at least do it right. You saw that he was tech rolling away and even chased him, but you chased him way too far if your plan was to f-smash and as a result not only were you spaced incorrectly for the smash itself, but you even couldn't get it out in time.

3:43 You go back WAY too far man. Do a smaller wavedash or just an empty pivot. You miss easy ledgetraps because you moved too far away from the ledge. This happens a lot in the video.

4:19 OMG that would've been a perfect uair moment. He was in the perfect range to get tipped and had no second jump. Q_Q

4:33 You saw it hit, why'd you shield? Or did you just hold it too long from your L-cancel (if so...you need to work on that. Being ABLE to move as fast as possible after attacks is essential). It could've been an easy combo from there (uptilt, grab, another tipped fair, whatever you feel like doing really)

4:34 Another f-smash tech chase that didn't work because you spaced improperly...work on that.

4:36 It might not be obvious, but if you had gone with a uair there instead of going for a second fair, you could've beat out his knee. Though in general throwing out that first rising fair when you're not 100% sure it won't whiff is a bad idea.

4:43 Well that was a free grab but you went with a fair (which is okay, problem is that you didn't tip the fair...again)

4:46, okay you did tip the fair...but you retreated instead of pushing forward. You could've linked a second tipped fair or just fast fell and try to tech chase, but you just let him get away instead.

4:47 Again, why the f-smash? And especially at that range? (I mean that would've only hilted even if it DID hit, and Falcon is only at 74% anyway. Just go for a grab or uptilt instead of trying to hit him straight back into the middle of the stage)

4:49 YAY you did the uair counter! But you waited so long to follow up after landing it. Had you done the fair a little earlier (or just tipped it, either would've worked) you could've continued comboing from it. And even after you dropped the combo, you could've at least not waited so long for the tech chase (which is what caused you to miss it.)

4:50 By now it should've been obvious you're not going to get anything guranteed out of this. At this point you should've just given up on the tech chase and get ready to react to what he would do AFTER the tech roll.

4:56 Why wavedash back? And again, why so far? Had he teched in place or tech rolled away he would've gotten away for free, no questions asked. You should've simply walked (or pivoted) backwards after you saw he didn't tech (or even just jab reset if you get used to doing it) And after all that...you went for (and misspaced) the f-smash again. At this percentage it's understandable, and even a good idea...but you just gotta work on your spacing man.

5:06 OMG WHY DIDN'T YOU GIMP HIM! You side B'd straight over him (you could've swatted him with untipped fairs to bring him down while you recover, then hit him with the up B itself and edgeguard him afterwards), but even after that why didn't you just bair him? He had no jump, was in lag from his knee, was far off the stage, and was BEHIND you. A simple bair would've pushed him out far enough for you to just beat him back to the stage and edgehog him.

5:12...Why'd you go to the edge? He was recovering high, which is when you stay on the stage and either swat at him if he's really close to the stage, or time an f-smash or spike if he's near the edge of his recovery range. Taking the edge is not the way to do it when he's in such a flexible position, you need to cover his options and FORCE him to recover lower before you do that.

5:15....spacing problems again. You missed the bair<.<

5:27...stop shielding immediately after hitting people. That was a free grab and you missed it


Overall you just really need to work on your spacing, and...work on your reaction time? (is that even possible?) You miss a lot of tech chases because you're just standing in place too long. And also, work on moving faster after your aerials to link combos better (and especially not shielding by accident after L-canceling anymore. I don't think you actually intended to do ALL of those instances I mentioned). Work on your edge guarding and just don't move so freakin' far away when you're trying to setup ledge traps. You move outside of your own effective range a lot, which is kinda just doing Falcon's job for him.

Well, that's my Emblem Lord style critique (for old times sake). Hope it helps you.
 

ComboTurtle

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
1,866
Location
Australia
i didnt read everyones critique or anything, but one thing i'd certainly stop doing is trying to tech chase with fsmash so much and randomly throwing them out so much, it made you eat so many knees out of shield and its hard to win if you cant flow **** together keeping control from techs, thats the main thing i noticed there was more but i am tired.
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
Everything ComboTurtle and Dark Sonic said was spot on. I'll add on to some of the things Dark Sonic said but honestly he just nailed the critique so hard. I don't really want to comment on the videos you sent me Knight (they were Falco vs Marth) and you 2 stocked him both times (only got 2 vids 1 failed). I'll let you know some other options but that's about it. I will critique these ones, however, I don't have the time yet so

{RESERVED}
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
lol, i wrote a long response, but i forgot to post; oh well, arc, give me some general tips on vs falco then; i'm still bad at that matchup.

anyways, based on watching everything while going over what darksonic said, my main errors are fsmash techchasing poorly ( i blame this mostly on how the char switch affects me), techchasing fsmash at low percents ( no excuse for this), and failing to punish missed techs.

I have been playing fox too long, i want to smash to punish a missed tech, and it was hurting me a lot; most of my late techchasing was caused by not reacting to the missed tech.

i also have a bad tendency to shield after doing ledgehopped fairs, so i'll work on that, and i also don't know how to short wavedash, so i can'tpunish aerial on while staying in range to pressure if he stands on (after going for a dtilt and needing to respace to prevent myself from getting invuln kneed).

I was also going to mention that it seems that running past falcon into tipped fsmash is bad since the over+B can be used to move him to the side and punish you.


I have a bad tendency to not upair enough when they are horizontal, and have bad edgeguarding vs falcon in general. I also missed a gimp opportunity. And that seemed to be the main isues.

Anyways, thanks for the critique.
 

trinityWOLF

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
20
Location
Bowie, MD
ummm.....mmmm....Lol...ok....marth and falcon match ups....r wierd...i think....in my opinion...but generally...u did..stuff that i didnt that is recommended for falcon fights...like...first off all u were in FD a neutral stage..and a bad stage for marth when it comes to falcons..u did the right thing going to the stage and tech grabbing but it seemed like when u got them off the stage...i dont knoe...like i thought the Nairs when the falcon was coming back on the stage was unnecessary...u couldve done something diff like...Fsmash when the invisibility is done or grab and Fthrow him back off again. and then it got predictable sometimes when u kept Nairing when he was recovering...im saying basically dont be predictable with the Nairs..u can grab and throw him back off or Fsmash or so many other things. Also on FD u dont wunna Fsmash a lot because if u miss...falcon can just grab and u can get combo'd then *****...try to space urself away from c. falcon and draw him near the edge or edge camp...be patient with marth (for falcon match ups...u wunna think of ways to draw ur opponent toward the edge where marth has the bigger advantage).
 

DippnDots

Feral Youth
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,149
Location
Cbus, Ohio
2nd match is a marth vs falcon in which i get owned. This was my first tourney trying to actually use my marth more than my fox, but i'm still pretty bad with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCOs-uT58zA

I wish the sets in which I was knocked out were recorded. I was pretty destroyed by a fox named hazzard, and was knocked out by my friend shaden in loser's eventually.


particularly, what could I have done at 5:40 after my bair hit. what were my best options. Could i have grabbed him before he reached me? I didn't have time to dash dance since my bair OOS didn't tip. I guess retreating nair would have been safer?
You whiff too many forward smashes against that falcon. The only advice i can give vs falcon is don't ever let him back on the stage.
 

Niko45

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,220
Location
Westchester, NY
The most glaring thing to me is that if you are going to camp the ledge you need to really camp it. Otherwise you are just screwing urself and setting him up for gimps. Do not waveland up when he still has invincibility, and if he is DDing out of ur ledge hop range just press over and simply stand up (very underrated). You can also try ledge camping high if he is DDing out of range to try to bait him into thinking ur coming up.

Don't up throw falcon unless ur upthrowing on to a platform to tech chase with utilt or fsmash. On FD you should only fthrow or dthrow him towards/off the nearest edge.

Stop fsmashing unless edgeguarding.

Only really solid approaches vs falcon are nair and running dtilt. Falcons who DD camp heavily should get the dtilt where as jumpy falcons should get nair'd.
 

Brightside6382

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
1,538
Location
Skokie, IL
So many people have already said this but you constantly whiffed f-smashes at moments where

A. It might have killed/knocked him off the stage or...
B. It wasn't even a good option

If you have to stop and think "omg I can get a f-smash" chances are its gonna already be to late . Either stop doing so many or stop second guessing yourself and stop thinking about doing it and just do it.
 

Piman34

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
1,309
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
3DS FC
3454-0406-0497
just watched the first one, but i noticed you almost always dash back then dash forward before you attack, usually with a crouch canceled attack, just something you might wanna mix up every so often :)
 
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