Super Smash Bros. Infinite Project (Finally Finished!???)

[Commander_Alph]

Welp, I'm out of idea

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Hey guys, I’m sorry but I’m a bit late with tallying the results of the Pokeball vote. I’ve been preoccupied with this entire Storming the Capitol business and have been having lengthy conversations with my family concerning it (they lean heavily pro-Trump while I do not). I will get to counting the votes and announcing our first four Pokémon in a few hours.

Character submissions will be open for some time so people can get them in.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Character 2 - Alph

One of the three playable characters in Pikmin 3, it's Alph, head engineer of the S.S. Drake! Though he was previously an alternate costume for Olimar in Smash 4 and Ultimate, him being upgraded to Echo fighter status would allow Olimar's unique Pikmin-based gameplay to have a bit of a twist on it. Specifically, the Pikmin Alph could use would originate from Pikmin 3 - replacing Purple and White Pikmin for Winged and Rock Pikmin. Alph was actually set to be a clone of Olimar in Smash 4, but was relegated to a costume for time constraints... yet he's still a costume in Ultimate? For some reason? This would be a chance to make that idea a reality.

 

[The Fantasy Smasher]

Hm, upon rereading the original post it appears I have forgotten to do one thing. Pinging! Venus of the Desert Bloom , may I join?

It appears I also forgot to do this Venus of the Desert Bloom . Apologies!

 

[GoodGrief741]

Venus of the Desert Bloom Does Geno count for the first category? He's third party but from a first party franchise.

Also, I'd like to join this thread! I plan on stopping by frequently.

 

[Bencaua]

Thanks for adding me! I'll make a submission for Character 2.
Zeraora

Zeraora would be an Echo Fighter of Lucario, with similarities between the two often being compared in the Pokémon fanbase. The main difference would be the lack of the Aura mechanic (much like how Marth and Roy's Echo Fighters, Lucina and Chrom, lack the sweetspots), with his attacks having an electric effect instead and damage based on Lucario's averages. Zeraora is a pure Electric type Pokémon, of which we have two already, but he seems different enough to warrant a spot in addition to being a Mythical Pokémon. He's also Alola's fifth most popular Pokémon. My ideas for his special moves would be variations of Lucario's from Smash 4, with Electric effects instead and renamed to go with it.

• His Neutral Special, Electro Ball, would be a variant of Piercing Aura Sphere with electric effects instead.
• His Side Special, Plasma Fists, would be like Advancing Force Palm , again with electric effects.
• His Up Special would be Wild Charge, a variant of Extreme Speed Attack.
• A variant of Stunning Double Team named simply Thunder Wave would be his Down Special and would probably remain intact.
• A Cinematic Final Smash involving Z-Moves would probably make sense given his home region.

I can also picture him being somewhat faster. This would make him an Echo like Ken or Dark Pit, with several altered characteristics, which is better than ones that are virtually model swaps in my opinion. Thoughts?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Venus of the Desert Bloom Does Geno count for the first category? He's third party but from a first party franchise.

Also, I'd like to join this thread! I plan on stopping by frequently.

That’s a good question. Considering we would have to go into third party negotiations to include him, let’s wait on submitting him for now. We will be doing third party in the near future so let’s wait for them.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Character 2

Hilda

Hilda would be an echo fighter of Princess Zelda, who would presumably be based once again on her ALBW incarnation. She would use dark magic in her moveset, reflecting the same role she has in the game as Zelda's morally questionable counterpart. Her magic attacks would give off dark magic properties to differentiate herself from Zelda the same way Roy and Ken have extra flame properties in their attacks to differentiate themselves from Marth and Ryu, respectively. Instead of the Phantom, her Down B would summon Ravio instead, reflecting the relationship between the two in game. Ravio would then hit opponents with one of four attacks from four different weapons, a Fire Rod, an Ice Rod, a Sand Rod, or a Tornado Rod, that were available in ALBW as items. Her final Smash would be the inverted Lorulean Triforce of Wisdom.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

The Pokeball results are in but feel free to tally themselves to ensure the votes are fair and accurate!

These will be added on the front page.

Wooloo GoodGrief741 13
Galarian Stunfrisk PeridotGX 9
Cramorant Perkilator 7
Snom/Frosmoth @Garteam 6
Sirfecth’d Ramen Tengoku 5
Eiscue Commander_Alph 4
Appletun @CheeseAnton 3
Enternatus Otoad64 2
Flapple Venus of the Desert Bloom 2
Perrserker @cashregister9 1
Centiskorch MamaLuigi123456 0
Barraskewda SharkLord 0
Dottler @Pokelego999 0

Thank you to everyone who submitted Pokémon! Please consider submitting the ones that didn’t get voted on earlier again, tweek them, or submit a different one in the future!

Thanks to @GoodGrief741for helping correct the tallies

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well then, here goes my candidate for the unique character.

Character #1: Dixie Kong

Dixie Kong needs no introduction. Partially because she's an iconic character from the Donkey Kong Country games, being the star of DKC3, the deuteragonist in DKC2 and a playable character in Tropical Freeze. And partially because... she was already suggested.

However, I'm in the camp that Dixie should be unique. I think she's too important for an Echo role, much like Isabelle. It's easy to forget but Donkey Kong Country was a huge deal back in its day and Dixie was one of its biggest stars. Also, to make her an Echo would miss out on tons of potential just because of their similar body shapes.

Unlike the other Kongs, Dixie would rely less on her arms and legs and more on using her ponytail to increase her reach in creative ways. Swipes, grabs, even stabs, there's plenty that she could do that's different not just from Diddy, but from every other character in Smash. If that's not enough for you, she could also use her guitar, or Animal Buddies, or shivers Kiddy Kong.

The reason I picked Dixie is that I think she's long overdue for Smash, and since we're making our own game we can fix the gaps in representation that Smash has missed. And if she were to be an Echo, well, I fear that she'd be stuck with that moveset forever and that would be kind of a waste. Donkey Kong is the franchise that made Nintendo; I think it warrants four unique characters.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I.... uh worry that Dixie (and any other character in the future that this applies to) being in both the character 1 and 2 camps is going to cause vote splitting and severely decrease her chances at being selected for either.

And of course, there's the other odds, even if they are extremely unlikely, that any character in the future that is in two different camps would win "both" slots.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Character #1
TINGLE

Tingle is a reoccurring character in the Zelda series so much so that he even has his own game starring him as the main character, one being a Balloon Fight knockoff, with the other two being an RPG with later title having a dating sim hybrid. It's mind boggling for sure as he's not that big of a deal in the Zelda lore.


His overall gimmick and design in Smash are all based on a combination of the gameplay from Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland and Ripened Tingle's Balloon Trip of Love which involved Rupees management, bodyguards, and "Love" meter.

His gameplay revolve around keeping the opponent away from him as much as possible as Tingle usually depicted as being somewhat of a coward and so he will pretty much rely on his trusty bodyguards to do his bidding and items across the Zelda series. But you're not doing that for free, as you needed Rupees to "hire" the bodyguard and "buy" the item. You can get the Rupees by dealing damage to the opponent or breaking things like crates and barrel, if the opponent is at low percentage you will get a somewhat hefty amount of Rupee out of them but the higher it gets the more Rupees you have to pay for each attack and even getting them is hard as they will only drop little by little.


This "Love" meter is an interesting mechanic, if you use down special a UI show up and shows a bunch of item that you could buy as a gift with the look of the UI being similar to Tingle's DSiWare app, Too Much Tingle Pack. The better the item the more expensive the cost as it will constantly cycle around several items each in different prices if you open and close it. After that you could use his neutral special that have Tingle throw a gift that buy earlier, if you hit them with it based on the quality it will apply debuff to them ranging from slow speed to low damage output but only for a certain amount of time, the lowest and cheapest item will give no effect.​

 

[GoodGrief741]

The Pokeball results are in but feel free to tally themselves to ensure the votes are fair and accurate!

These will be added on the front page.

Wooloo GoodGrief741 10
Galarian Stunfrisk PeridotGX 9
Cramorant Perkilator 7
Snom/Frosmoth @Garteam 6

Sirfecth’d Ramen Tengoku 4
Appletun @CheeseAnton 3
Eiscue Commander_Alph 3
Enternatus Otoad64 2
Flapple Venus of the Desert Bloom 2
Perrserker @cashregister9 1
Centiskorch MamaLuigi123456 0
Barraskewda SharkLord 0
Dottler @Pokelego999 0

Thank you to everyone who submitted Pokémon! Please consider submitting the ones that didn’t get voted on earlier again, tweek them, or submit a different one in the future!

I checked the count and I got a different tally. Unless there's something I missed, I think it should be

Wooloo 12
Galarian Stunfisk 9
Cramorant 7
Snom/Frosmoth 6
Sirfetchd 5
Eiscue 4
Appletun 3
Eternatus 2
Flapple 2
Perrserker 1

The top 4 is the same though so it might not even matter but I thought I should mention it.

I.... uh wonder if Dixie (and any other character in the future) being in both character 1 and 2 camps is going to cause vote splitting.

Yeah, I thought about that, but I'm a big fan of Dixie and I had to put the option out there for her to be unique. I really hope I don't end up costing her a spot altogether!

 

[Bencaua]

Yeah, I thought about that, but I'm a big fan of Dixie and I had to put the option out there for her to be unique. I really hope I don't end up costing her a spot altogether!

Probably won't even if she doesn't get in this time around, since it's likely there'll be lots of other opportunities for her to get in! So I wouldn't worry about that,

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Probably won't even if she doesn't get in this time around, since it's likely there'll be lots of other opportunities for her to get in! So I wouldn't worry about that,

Basically this. We will be including a number of characters and, even if one character doesn’t get picked, it doesn’t mean they are forever out of the running.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Character #2: Medusa (Kid Icarus) 54e

Once upon a time in Angel Land, there were two goddesses, who ruled the land together in peace. However, while the goddess of light Palutena, fostered humanity, the goddess of darkness Medusa despised them, to the point where she dried up their crops and petrified them. In a fit of rage, Palutena transformed her into a hideous cyclops and banished her.

Medusa was the original main villain of the Kid Icarus franchise would echo Palutena, reimplementing the custom moves that Palutena used in Smash 4. Plus, Smash Bros needs more villains, and there are very little things more villainous than a goddess of darkness.

 

[WarioJim]

Character #2: Medusa (Kid Icarus) 54e
View attachment 298545

Once upon a time in Angel Land, there were two goddesses, who ruled the land together in peace. However, while the goddess of light Palutena, fostered humanity, the goddess of darkness Medusa despised them, to the point where she dried up their crops and petrified them. In a fit of rage, Palutena transformed her into a hideous cyclops and banished her.

Medusa was the original main villain of the Kid Icarus franchise would echo Palutena, reimplementing the custom moves that Palutena used in Smash 4. Plus, Smash Bros needs more villains, and there are very little things more villainous than a goddess of darkness.

I'm absolutley for Medusa as a new Villain for the line-up, especially since we don't really have a truley unique villainess. That said, I'm against the idea of making her an echo, as I really don't think that fits the character and there is a lot more unique you can do with her as a concept.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

It seems to me that the options for Echoes are running dry. I have a few in mind but not worthy of an E3 reveal. We will commence voting in 8 hours.

 

[Commander_Alph]

It seems to me that the options for Echoes are running dry. I have a few in mind but not worthy of an E3 reveal. We will commence voting in 8 hours.

To prevent that, can I submit multiple concept of echoes? Since echo fighter is usually a carbon copy of the original I doubt it will take that long for me to come up?

 

[Janx_uwu]

Character 1
The man, the myth, the legend! The ex-heavyweight boxing champion! The coach with a chocolate bar obsession! It's...

Doc Louis!
Hailing from the Punch Out! series, Doc is an ex-heavyweight boxer who now coaches a young upstart name Little Mac. He has a love for the sport, a love for chocolate, and he wants to help Mac be the greatest he can be.
While Mac eventually got invited to the greatest fight of his career-a Smash for the ages-Doc could only cheer and help from the sidelines. While he loves to coach, Doc feels the need to sharpen his boxing skills. So it's about time he jumps into the ring.

A sharp contrast to his speedy, lightweight, small-hurtbox student, Doc Louis would be a slow superheavy fighter who won't get knocked around that easily. This is heightened by his neutral B, which lets him down a chocolate bar, healing him a small amount and making him slightly heavier. After eating the bar, he'll keep the crumpled up wrapper in his hand, which he can then throw to do a small amount of damage. If your opponent manages to hit you before you can consume the cocoa goodness, Doc will get angry, and his power and speed will increase, making this also a counter-move of sorts. He can only eat two per stock though, so you must use them wisely. He's going to be a character who needs to observe his opponent and approach accordingly-running in without a plan won't do wonders for Doc. Instead you should use whatever you can, including your chocolate bar wrappers, to make your opponent approach you, and then punish their weak points and habits. His recovery is also an improvement over Mac's-while he has a similar side B, his up B has him bounce off of the rails of a boxing ring. His normals would reference his attacks from Doc Louis' Punch Out!!, and a few of them would be variations of Mac's attacks.

Why should he be in Smash? Well, Doc is possibly the most iconic character from Punch Out! apart from the main protagonist. He's a really cool character that would be a perfect fit for Smash Bros. He's not neccesarily a highly requested character, but he would be great for a second Punch Out! rep if nothing else. Finally, he would add another heavyweight to the roster, which he haven't had since Ultimate's base roster.

 

[SharkLord]

How much are we leaning on the original idea of Echoes? Are they just low-effort clones of one fighter, or can we mix and match them (So, for example, Dark Meta Knight over normal Meta Knight, but using versions of Bayonetta's smash attacks).

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

On that topic, will this roster have a non-echo, semi-clone/pseudo clone or two, ala Isabelle and wolf? I have a couple ideas for those

 

[GoodGrief741]

Character #2: Black Shadow

Black Shadow is the sadistic main villain in the F-Zero series. Wanted across the galaxy, Black Shadow regularly enters F-Zero races with two goals in mind: causing accidents to sate his bloodlust, and killing his nemesis Captain Falcon before his adoring audience. He is a cold and manipulative mastermind and a racer to stay away from.

Black Shadow could be an Echo of Falcon himself, or of Ganondorf if he's still using his derivative moveset. Many have suggested that Ganondorf's current moveset (sword nonwithstanding) be offloaded to Black Shadow so that players who liked it can still play it and Ganondorf can get something more appropriate. I'm all for that! Or, if they were to coexist, Black Shadow could instead take the attributes of his F-Zero machine, the Black Bull. Since the Black Bull is incredibly fast and sturdy, that would translate to a rushdown powerhouse, who if played right would be nearly unstoppable - much like Black Bull is said to be incredibly hard to pilot yet a threat in the right hands. And I'd swap the Falcon Punch for something more appropriate, like a Bull Charge using his horns.

I picked Black Shadow because, as anyone familiar with F-Zero knows, he's a fantastic villain. He oozes evil and manages to throw evil laughs left and right yet still remain threatening. Also F-Zero's been in Smash since the beginning and Falcon looks lonely.

 

[PeridotGX]

quick note on Black Shadow:

his spirit uses Ganondorf, so that's likely who he would echo.

 

[ahemtoday]

Here's my thoughts on Black Shadow: I reckon we take the opportunity to redo Ganondorf's moveset, and then add Black Shadow in as an echo. Since Ganondorf wouldn't be a Falcon clone in this case, the only option is as fighter number #11ε, as an echo of Captain Falcon.

Also, that's why we would reveal him at E3 - because we'd also show off the new Ganon as well, which feels like an E3-worthy thing.

 

[PeridotGX]

Here's my thoughts on Black Shadow: I reckon we take the opportunity to redo Ganondorf's moveset, and then add Black Shadow in as an echo. Since Ganondorf wouldn't be a Falcon clone in this case, the only option is as fighter number #11ε, as an echo of Captain Falcon.

Also, that's why we would reveal him at E3 - because we'd also show off the new Ganon as well, which feels like an E3-worthy thing.

If Black Shadow is getting Ganondorf's moveset, and Ganondorf wasn't an echo, why would Black Shadow be an echo?

 

[Perkilator]

If Black Shadow is getting Ganondorf's moveset, and Ganondorf wasn't an echo, why would Black Shadow be an echo?

Simple, we make him 's Echo and give him a mix between 's old moveset and 's current moveset.

 

[ahemtoday]

If Black Shadow is getting Ganondorf's moveset, and Ganondorf wasn't an echo, why would Black Shadow be an echo?

Echo-hood is kind of made-up and doesn't make that much sense to begin with. See: Ken. It's a marketing thing more than anything.

 

[PeridotGX]

Simple, we make him 's Echo and give him a mix between 's old moveset and 's current moveset.

but what's the difference between that and Smash 4 Ganon? I feel like you're starting with "Black Shadow as a Falcon echo" and going back to justify it later.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I think we can leave Black Shadow a Ganondorf echo for now and, if they are chosen, then discuss if there is a better Echo option.

On that topic, will this roster have a non-echo, semi-clone/pseudo clone or two, ala Isabelle and wolf? I have a couple ideas for those

At some point, yes

Here's my thoughts on Black Shadow: I reckon we take the opportunity to redo Ganondorf's moveset, and then add Black Shadow in as an echo. Since Ganondorf wouldn't be a Falcon clone in this case, the only option is as fighter number #11ε, as an echo of Captain Falcon.

Also, that's why we would reveal him at E3 - because we'd also show off the new Ganon as well, which feels like an E3-worthy thing.

That is certainly an interesting concept and i didnt consider that perhaps somf veterans may change in the future. I didnt consider that some fighters could change later in our debelopment.

 

[Perkilator]

but what's the difference between that and Smash 4 Ganon? I feel like you're starting with "Black Shadow as a Falcon echo" and going back to justify it later.

In the case of this, he has both Ganon’s and Falcon’s attack’s, plus Falcon’s move speed and Ganon’s weight.

 

[PeridotGX]

In the case of this, he has both Ganon’s and Falcon’s attack’s, plus Falcon’s move speed and Ganon’s weight.

but they are the same attacks.

and Ganondorf with Falcon's speed would be broken.

 

[Perkilator]

but. they. are. the. same. attacks.

and Ganondorf with Falcon's speed would be broken.

sigh Lemme show you what I mean with Black Shadow as a Falcon Echo:

Spoiler

After giving it some thought, I decided to make the speed between Ganondorf and Captain Falcon; not blistering fast, but also not agonizingly slow.

Normal Attacks
Jab: Ganondorf's jab
Forward+A: Ganondorf's F-tilt
Down+A: Ganondorf's D-tilt
Up+A: Captain Falcon's U-tilt

Aerial Attacks
Air+A: Cpatain Falcon's F-air
Air Forward+A: Ganondorf's F-air
Air Back + A: Black Shadow does an underhanded karate chop, making it look like he's attacking with his cape
Air Up+A: Falcon and Ganondorf's U-air
Air Down+A: Falcon and Ganondorf's D-air

Dash Attack: Black Shadow brakes himself as he charges into the opponent with his horns
Edge Attack: Ganondorf's edge attack
Get-Up Attacks: Ganondorf's get-up attacks

Smash Attacks
Forward+A: Black Shadow jabs the opponent with his horns
Up+A: Black Shadow thrusts his horns in an upward arc in front of him
Down+A: Captain Falcon's D-Smash

Grab Game
Grab: Black Shadow grabs the opponent in a similar fashion as Ganondorf's grounded Dark Dive
Pummel: Black Shadow chokes the opponent
Forwards+Throw: Ganondorf's F-throw
Down+Throw: Black Shadow bursts dark energy from his fist and drops the opponent straight down, in a similar fashion to Ganondorf's grounded Dark Dive
Back+Throw: Falcon's and Ganondorf's B-throw
Up+Throw: Ganondorf's U-throw

Special Moves
B: Bull Punch; A move with the animation and power of Falcon Punch, but the super armor of Warlock Punch.
B + Forwards: Bull Charge; On the ground, Black Shadow charges like a bull and tosses the opponent upwards with the horns on his costume, like with the Raptor Boost. In the air, Black Shadow catches the opponent with the horns and drops them onto the ground, similar to Ganondorf’s aerial Flame Choke.
B + Up: Dark Dive; Functions similarly to Falcon Dive, with the knockback of Ganondorf’s version.
B + Down: Bull's Foot; Functions similarly to Wizard's Assault, a custom move Ganondorf had in Smash 4.

Final Smash: Black Bull; Functions identically to the Blue Falcon, but with Black Shadow in his vehicle, the Black Bull.

I aimed to, like I said, mix up the attacks of Falcon and Ganondorf; find an even ground between the two.

 

[Otoad64]

I personally think black shadow should just be smash 4 or melee ganondorf and we give ganondorf an original moveset.

sure ganondorf wasn't an echo but that's just because for whatever reason nintendo didn't want to make anyone introduced pre smash 4 into an echo. also he was given the sword and was further diversified in general.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Gotta say, I didn't expect there to be so much Black Shadow discussion. I'm glad, but maybe we should hold that until after voting? He might not make the cut after all.

 

[Otoad64]

Gotta say, I didn't expect there to be so much Black Shadow discussion. I'm glad, but maybe we should hold that until after voting? He might not make the cut after all.

yeah that's fair.

 

[Bencaua]

Link having the BoTW design and moveset inspiration was a pretty big thing when Ultimate was first announced, so some time to discuss major changes to previously existing fighters definitely feels like a good idea.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Link having the BoTW design and moveset inspiration was a pretty big thing when Ultimate was first announced, so some time to discuss major changes to previously existing fighters definitely feels like a good idea.

I do have some ideas for how could be improved, and would be happy to share them when the time comes.

 

[ahemtoday]

I wonder if we could propose major mechanical changes in general. I have some pretty big ideas for Final Smashes and the Y button...

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I know we do lots of submissions and voting but I would like to have certain times dedicated to discussion and such like that. If you guys want to have a discussion about an addition and want to see it implemented after coming to a consensus, ping me and I can probably add it in.

I will start compiling the voting.