Counterpicking Guide

[yellowroy]

I was thinking of what maps to counterpick on every character so I thought why not make a whole guide of it. it will show what to ban and what to pick on everyone but I can't do this all by myself,

Thanks to the Peach boards for letting me do this.

also the Stage Discussion is HERE to show what Ike can do at the maps you counterpick.

Stages in red you should ban or stage strike.
Stages in blue you should counterpick.

Bowser:

Counterpick:Battlefield
Ban:

Captian Falcon:

Counterpick:
Ban:

Diddy Kong:

Counterpick:
Ban:Final Destination

Donky Kong:

Counterpick:
Ban:Jungle Japes,Luigi's Mansion

Falco:

Counterpick: Lylat Cruise, Brinstar
Ban:Frigate Orpheon, Final Destination

Fox:

Counterpick: Lylat Cruise, Bristar
Ban: Frigate Orpheon

Game & Watch:

Counterpick:Final Destination
Ban:Yoshi's Island

Ganondorf:

Counterpick:
Ban:

Ice Climbers:

Counterpick:
Ban:

Jigglypuff

Counterpick:
Ban:

King Dedede

Counterpick:Lylat Cruise,Pokemon Stadium 1
Ban:Delphino Plaza, Castle Siege

Kirby

Counterpick: Yoshi's Island, Castle Siege
Ban:

Link

Counterpick:Battlefield
Ban:Norfair

Lucario

Counterpick:Brinstar, Corneria, Green Greens
Ban:Frigate Orpheon,Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion

Lucas

Counterpick:
Ban:

Luigi

Counterpick:
Ban:

Mario

Counterpick:Pirate Ship,Norfiar
Ban:Rainbow Cruise,Frigate Orpheon

Marth

Counterpick:Final Destination
Ban:

Meta Knight

Counterpick:
Ban:

Ness

Counterpick:
Ban:

Olimar

Counterpick:Frigate Orpheon
Ban:Final Destination

Peach

Counterpick:Corneria,Green Greens
Ban:Jungle Japes, Frigate Orpheon, Luigi's Mansion

Pikachu

Counterpick:
Ban:

Pit

Counterpick:Yoshi's Island
Ban:

Pokemon Trainer

Counterpick:
Ban:

R.O.B.

Counterpick:
Ban:Frigate Orpheon, Final Destination

Samus

Counterpick:
Ban:

Sheik

Counterpick:
Ban:

Snake

Counterpick:
Ban:

Sonic

Counterpick:
Ban:

Toon Link

Counterpick:Brinstar
Ban:

Wario

Counterpick:
Ban:

Wolf

Counterpick:
Ban:

Yoshi

Counterpick:
Ban:

Zelda

Counterpick:
Ban:

Zamus

Counterpick:Frigate Orpheon
Ban:Final Destination

 

[Rykoshet]

Dedede: Counterpick Lylat or PS1, Ban Delfino or Castle siege.

PS1 is actually rather dangerous to counterpick on btw. It does, however, work if you steer clear of the walls and use the change in terrain/platforms to your advantage.

Marth: Counterpick FD, your platform game is nothing like his and the lips of the stages make edgehogging/guarding a lot easier.

Falco/Wolf/Fox/Lucario: Counterpick lylat and brinstar, ban the living **** out of orpheon for at least 3 of them.

Game and Watch: Ban Yoshi's

Pit: Counterpick Yoshi's

 

[Royta]

A ban on FD against Falco would be best imo, apart from the lip of FD he's at a sound advantage.

Game and Watch : counterpick FD (not a joke, he needs platforms)

Toonlink: counterpick Brinstar, those little trees annoy his projectiles.

Bowser: Battlefield should **** bowser (when using Ike) I think, safe bet.

Olimar: bann FD and counterpick Frigate, frigate is a high risk counterpick though. It's gimp or be gimped.

 

[Berserker_Cross]

For Kirby, I would personally select Yoshi's Island or Castle Seige as a counterpick.

For starters they can't simply inhale or spit you under stage.

The slant parts of the stages makes it a bit easier to escape the kirby combo which can get you from 0-51% when done right. You can abuse the platforms in both stages to attack them from below. If you're really familiar with Castle Siege, you can position yourself during the transition you can end up at an advantage point to strike Kirby.

 

[Rykoshet]

Counterpick Yoshi's against IC's also.

 

[Ussi]

I recommending putting a link to this thread so people can look at what Ike can do on those stages.

I'll link here in my stage thread.



How come Peach isn't on the list? Forget to put her on when you copied this exact format from their boards?

 

[deepseadiva]

How come Peach isn't on the list? Forget to put her on when you copied this exact format from their boards?

That seems to be the case. And yea, you can do this for the Ike boards. I got the Lucario and Sonic boards doing the same thing.

 

[Ussi]

you should give credit to the peach boards for their format.

 

[yellowroy]

yeah i asked them and i'm going to finish everyone else soon. i put your thread on OP and i gave credit.

 

[MysticKenji]

Pick Brinstar against Lucario and ban Frigate/Japes

Ban FD vs Diddy and Japes/Mansion vs DK

 

[HeroMystic]

Link: Ban Norfair, counterpick Battlefield.
Mario: Ban Rainbow Cruise/Frigate Orpheon, counterpick Norfair or Pirate Ship.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Put down Jungle Japes as a Universal Ban. Seriously. There is NO opponent that doesn't go at least even with us there. Most have an advantage. -_-

 

[Ussi]

Link: Ban Norfair, counterpick Battlefield.
Mario: Ban Rainbow Cruise/Frigate Orpheon, counterpick Norfair or Pirate Ship.

What exactly is bad about RC against Mario? I know you main so tell me your perspective HeroMystic.



oh and BAN JAPES ON FALCO!

 

[MysticKenji]

Brinstar works vs DDD too i'd think

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I remember hearing brinstar was a great falco stage though. Might have been in melee though.

 

[HeroMystic]

What exactly is bad about RC against Mario? I know you main so tell me your perspective HeroMystic.

A LOT of gimping opportunities for Mario and is quite aerial-friendly which is where Mario excels at. The only time where Ike would have the advantage is on the first stage due to low blast zones.

It's not Mario's best stage (his best stage is Battlefield/Smashville), but the pros it gives Mario directly affect Ike's cons.

I would know this since I played as Ike against a Mario main.

 

[Ussi]

Hmm, idk.. I like RC though. Maybe stage comfortablity issues?


Or maybe my comfortablity makes me do extra good?

 

[WeretigerX]

Green greens and Corneria are very good for Ike anytime.

 

[yellowroy]

for mario priate ship and norfair are ussualy banned for me same with japes and mansion for dk.so is there atleast 1 more good map to cp/ban?

 

[deepseadiva]

Peach
Counterpick: Corneria, Green Greens
Ban: Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Frigate Orpheon

There's some fairly obvious info for Peach.

I'd discourage the use of Pirate Ship as a counterpick if your only choosing it for the water spikes. If the Peach knows how to Jesuswalk (float above the water), she can fair you into the bow of the ship after dodging your spikes pretty easily.

 

[Ussi]

well if peach floats above water, just wait till she falls in or (if peach up-bs to not fall into the water) don't be stupid with spikes. The main purpose of pirate ship is never being gimped outside of water spikes.

Ike can aether in the water though.

 

[HeroMystic]

Hmm, idk.. I like RC though. Maybe stage comfortablity issues?


Or maybe my comfortablity makes me do extra good?

If you're comfortable with Rainbow Cruise then by all means go for it. The player is much more important than the statistics.

However a Mario that is just as comfortable would still have the edge, but if it works, more power to you.

 

[Kitamerby]

Also counterpick Corneria or Green Greens against Lucario. Corneria is super tiny.

Also ban Luigi's against Lucario. Tech abuse to live super long is lol.

 

[Ussi]

Corneria is considered Ike's best stage. Love how it's Pika's too~

 

[yellowroy]

should i use the maps that they have on the matchup thread for every character?

 

[Ussi]

should i use the maps that they have on the matchup thread for every character?

No don't, that isn't the ideal counterpick usually. It's just who is ok and not ok to fight. Well not ok you can put on the ban side.

 

[Royta]

Ban FD against Zamus, she'll be able to camp you to death there. You might consider Counterpicking Frigate against her, since that missing edge might **** her up.

 

[EmperorB-rad2kj]

I think ike works good in a large stage. I'm killer on hyrule temple

 

[yellowroy]

Bump. Anyone have any other maps that are good CP's or ban's.

 

[Kinzer]

I think ike works good in a large stage. I'm killer on hyrule temple

Okay.

Bump. Anyone have any other maps that are good CP's or ban's.

Feel free to Counterpick Rainbow Cruise against Snake, and Ban Battlefield against him.

Snake's like aerial control, RC encourages aerial combat, which Snake doesn't do so well on.

As for Battlefield... Snake has some F/Utilt platform-camp tricks, and some other things I might not recall at this point.

 

[MysticKenji]

Ban FD/Frigate vs ROB

 

[doom dragon 105]

Lylat is bad for Gannon and Ike does well there

 

[Guilhe]

Bump. In which stage should I counterpick Solid Snake?

 

[Aurorazoni]

Ban FD for Ice Climbers and Pit.
My two cents :x

 

[Edo14]

In all honesty I don't believe you should ban frigate against fox. Definitely Falco or Wolf but Fox? Fox's main kill is his bair or Upsmash which you can always di up. Sides when it's the elevator stage the space animals recovery is so predictable on the right side. You could easily dtilt spike or just wait for them to get up and punish them. Also maybe add SV for Bowser and DK cp. Easy edges = Easy aethers and i think if they're on the platform Fsmash can catch them.

 

[YagamiLight]

Bump. In which stage should I counterpick Solid Snake?

I'll tell you from experience that as Snake can also kill easily from both sides, you'll want to pick a stage not for the blastzones but for the stuff it actually contains.

I recommend a midsized stage with good lighting so you can clearly see explosives (Ever fight a C4 and grenade heavy Snake on Lylat Cruise? Ugh.) that will be strewn about the stage. You'll want several "access" platforms so that he can't block your approach one way with Landmines and whatnot. Also don't go for a stage with hazards, as the last thing you need while fighting Snake is other stuff besides his explosives to worry about.

I recommend going with Delphino or Battlefield.

 

[Aurorazoni]

I'll tell you from experience that as Snake can also kill easily from both sides, you'll want to pick a stage not for the blastzones but for the stuff it actually contains.

I recommend a midsized stage with good lighting so you can clearly see explosives (Ever fight a C4 and grenade heavy Snake on Lylat Cruise? Ugh.) that will be strewn about the stage. You'll want several "access" platforms so that he can't block your approach one way with Landmines and whatnot. Also don't go for a stage with hazards, as the last thing you need while fighting Snake is other stuff besides his explosives to worry about.

I recommend going with Delphino or Battlefield.

O.o no lylat against Snake? Whoa, where have I been. :x Yet Battlefield is a solid CP.
You're an Ike veteran so I won't doubt you, but may I ask why this is the case?

 

[YagamiLight]

O.o no lylat against Snake? Whoa, where have I been. :x Yet Battlefield is a solid CP.
You're an Ike veteran so I won't doubt you, but may I ask why this is the case?

Lylat isn't a bad idea to use against Snake, it has most of the benefits that Battlefield brings to the table, yet it has a few rather annoying differences.

The main one is the shape of it. You know how Pirate ship has a \--_--/ ship that is productive in dodging projectiles? Lylat however has a /--~--\ which I find is rather annoying against people who seriously want to camp you to death. The platforms help, thankfully, but not too much.

Secondly, if the Snake places a C4 or land mine and you forget where it is, or you just don't see him plant it in the first place, good luck seeing it with a dark background and a dark stage. The Snake that I personally fight offline loves his C4 and grenades and they are very annoying to keep track of on dark stages.

Nevertheless, if you like the platform layout plus the fact that the edge MIGHT catch Snake under it, go ahead and try this, but I guarantee you'll do better on Battlefield and Delphino.

 

[doom dragon 105]

Gannon does bad in Lylat, I play a gannon main all the time and the is a bad place for him

edit: No Lylat for Snake, how is that even debatable?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Battlefield is Snake's best or second best stage though. >_> Not sure if Smashville is better then Battlefield for him or not. He can close off 1/3 of the stage using well placed mines and C4s on the platforms and under that platform, can toss grenades perfectly onto platforms, utilt under platforms....