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Zombie Lucille Ball

Zombie Lucille Ball

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Jam Stunna said:
Do you still listen to tapes?
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*Phoenix Wright objection! pic* Magnetic tape is merely a medium, and not media/art itself. Are you saying The Beatles are inferior to modern day musicians because they used inferior technology to record their music? Or that The Wizard of Oz is inferior to modern film because of the lack of advanced CGI technology in 1939?


Jam Stunna said:
EDIT-



There, now everyone's favorite media can be held up as the exception to the rule. Happy?
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Conversation in general would be pretty boring if we all refused to discuss things based in differing opinions. Besides, you didn't say "in general" or people's "favorites" originally, you specifically said CLASSICS, aka the best of the best, cream of the crop, and then said that they fall short to contemporary works:
Jam Stunna said:
Basically, when you compare a classic to its contemporary counterparts, it falls short, but you have to keep in mind that the classic is what forms the foundation for the contemporaries that are so much better.
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Budai578 said:
Alexander that sounds grood.

Also, to add to the Akira discussion - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBAJdtPVnZc

I think someone posted this here sometime ago, but I may have found it somewhere else... can't remember.
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That's an awesome vid. Good stuff.
 
Jam Stunna

Jam Stunna

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CogSmooch said:
*Phoenix Wright objection! pic* Magnetic tape is merely a medium, and not media/art itself. Are you saying The Beatles are inferior to modern day musicians because they used inferior technology to record their music? Or that The Wizard of Oz is inferior to modern film because of the lack of advanced CGI technology in 1939?


Conversation in general would be pretty boring if we all refused to discuss things based in differing opinions. Besides, you didn't say "in general" or people's "favorites" originally, you specifically said CLASSICS, aka the best of the best, cream of the crop, and then said that they fall short to contemporary works:

That's an awesome vid. Good stuff.
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At point #1- A tape may not be art, but it is media, just like we refer to a disc as optical media. How we consume the art is just as important as the art itself, since they directly influence each other. The Beatles would not be as influential as they are if they'd been recorded on wax cylinders.

#2- I should have specified and said that the classics should be compared to the best of what we have today. Have movies, music, games, books, etc. not gotten better over time? If you basically rephrase the statement, "The classics are better," you have, "The contemporaries are worse." Is anime today actually worse than Akira?

Besides, the ultimate point in all of this is that media and art must be considered in context. If you show someone The Wizard of Oz without ANY context at all, as if it were released yesterday, it wouldn't stand a chance against The Dark Knight or Toy Story or the Lion King or Star Trek. Art cannot be separated from its context, otherwise it makes no sense. Akira must be viewed as a movie of the 1980's for a comparison to contemporary anime to even exist.

Art is not timeless. It is very much a product of its era, and the era it comes from must be considered and factored into our understanding for us to fully appreciate something.
 
trademark0013

trademark0013

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Mogwai

Mogwai

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Wizard of Oz ****in' ***** all those movies... Seriously, I'd still rather watch Wizard of Oz than any of those and it's not even close.

I suppose one can appreciate the craftsmanship of Akira, and that's all well and good, but for someone like me who does not necessarily recognize the technique and attention to detail in the production, it just doesn't have the same effect. I guess I just expect something as widely revered as a classic to have more to it than just fabulous execution. I also expect the vision to be something great, and while it may have been to others, I just found the premise and characters to be pretty forgettable.
 
Jam Stunna

Jam Stunna

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Mogwai said:
Wizard of Oz ****in' ***** all those movies... Seriously, I'd still rather watch Wizard of Oz than any of those and it's not even close.

I suppose one can appreciate the craftsmanship of Akira, and that's all well and good, but for someone like me who does not necessarily recognize the technique and attention to detail in the production, it just doesn't have the same effect. I guess I just expect something as widely revered as a classic to have more to it than just fabulous execution. I also expect the vision to be something great, and while it may have been to others, I just found the premise and characters to be pretty forgettable.
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Well, that's exactly my point: without the context, Akira goes from being great to just being average. And I would argue that without the context we all have for The Wizard of Oz, that movie would be average to us as well.

It works both ways too. Take The Matrix. Modern classic, right? Imagine that movie was screened for an audience with no cultural, social or technological understanding of what a computer is. Suddenly, that movie goes from mind-blowing to completely meaningless.
 
Hazygoose

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instinct winning made me really happy. halo 3 is usually meh to me but lunchbox and roy have always been ****ing fun to watch...and from their final team 2 years ago with walshy and soviet until this last tourny i've always been watching them and finished the day wondering why i spent so much of it watching halo...but you know...i got to see a lot of instinct, including them winning, so it's all justified now. also, i really like heaven & earth and hope they end up wrecking this season. karma+naded+killerdrew+clutch = soooo much **** talk. they are like what DA is to melee.
 
ZoSo

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Jam Stunna said:
The Beatles would not be as influential as they are if they'd been recorded on wax cylinders.
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Acoustical recording didn't exist until the 1850s, which was well after the death of many of the classical masters. Literally the only way to "record" music at the time was by ear or by script, both of which, I think you'll agree, are decidedly less "complete" forms of recording than even the humble wax cylinder, so I'm curious as to what you're basing that on.

Also, this doesn't even have anything to do with the point Ryan was making. DO you think The Beatles are worse than modern recording artists because the technology was worse back then?

Jam Stunna said:
If you show someone The Wizard of Oz without ANY context at all, as if it were released yesterday, it wouldn't stand a chance against The Dark Knight or Toy Story or the Lion King or Star Trek.
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I get what you're saying, but... seriously. Terrible examples.

Jam Stunna said:
Art cannot be separated from its context, otherwise it makes no sense.
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By that logic, nobody can ever completely "make sense" of any art.

Jam Stunna said:
Art is not timeless. It is very much a product of its era, and the era it comes from must be considered and factored into our understanding for us to fully appreciate something.
Click to expand...
See above.

Jam Stunna said:
And I would argue that without the context we all have for The Wizard of Oz, that movie would be average to us as well.
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That's an impossible argument to make, but good luck with that.
 
Zombie Lucille Ball

Zombie Lucille Ball

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Jam Stunna said:
At point #1- A tape may not be art, but it is media, just like we refer to a disc as optical media. How we consume the art is just as important as the art itself, since they directly influence each other. The Beatles would not be as influential as they are if they'd been recorded on wax cylinders.

#2- I should have specified and said that the classics should be compared to the best of what we have today. Have movies, music, games, books, etc. not gotten better over time? If you basically rephrase the statement, "The classics are better," you have, "The contemporaries are worse." Is anime today actually worse than Akira?

Besides, the ultimate point in all of this is that media and art must be considered in context. If you show someone The Wizard of Oz without ANY context at all, as if it were released yesterday, it wouldn't stand a chance against The Dark Knight or Toy Story or the Lion King or Star Trek. Art cannot be separated from its context, otherwise it makes no sense. Akira must be viewed as a movie of the 1980's for a comparison to contemporary anime to even exist.

Art is not timeless. It is very much a product of its era, and the era it comes from must be considered and factored into our understanding for us to fully appreciate something.
Click to expand...
ZoSo said:
Acoustical recording didn't exist until the 1850s, which was well after the death of many of the classical masters. Literally the only way to "record" music at the time was by ear or by script, both of which, I think you'll agree, are decidedly less "complete" forms of recording than even the humble wax cylinder, so I'm curious as to what you're basing that on.

Also, this doesn't even have anything to do with the point Ryan was making. DO you think The Beatles are worse than modern recording artists because the technology was worse back then?


I get what you're saying, but... seriously. Terrible examples.


By that logic, nobody can ever completely "make sense" of any art.


See above.


That's an impossible argument to make, but good luck with that.
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Thanks Dave. I was way too tired to respond. The classical masters are a good point. I believe there's an extremely terrible wax recording of Brahms playing something but that's like it...
But anyways, Jam, you said it yourself: art cannot be separated from its context. However, people can be ignorant of it to some extent. But even then they have THEIR OWN context through which they view it. No one's talking about showing The Matrix to the lost ****ing tribes of the Amazon.... what a straw man arguement (or "impossible" as Dave said). But you don't need to have a deep understanding of context to appreciate, or "make sense" of past films. In the slightest. Especially because it's such a young medium. When I was 4 and popped in a VHS copy of Star Wars I had no clue of any of the cultural ramifications that film had, I just ****ing enjoyed it. Same goes for when my Mom was 7 months pregnant with me and went and saw The Empire Strikes Back *waits for you to say the prequels are the better films*
All mediums do, they do in service of the art. In service of the story. In service of the music. The Beatles would remain genius songwriters if they only recorded onto wax. Casablanca remains a genius story regardless of what year it was made or how archaic the photochem process was.

As to " Have movies, music, games, books, etc. not gotten better over time? " - highly debatable, but I'd say at least in the music and ESPECIALLY books department, NO.
 
Jam Stunna

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CogSmooch said:
Casablanca remains a genius story regardless of what year it was made or how archaic the photochem process was.

As to " Have movies, music, games, books, etc. not gotten better over time? " - highly debatable, but I'd say at least in the music and ESPECIALLY books department, NO.
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So an understanding of World War II is not necessary to appreciate Casablanca? I also don't understand how showing The Matrix to Amazonians (that is, showing a movie to a population that has no cultural framework to understand it) is an impossible argument or a strawman.

And do you mean that nothing art related has improved over time ever, or are you using some reference point that you didn't specify?

The original point of my post seems to have gotten lost, so let me reiterate: contextual understanding is crucial to appreciating art. I really don't see how you can suggest otherwise. Cogsmooch, you yourself brought up Japan's history of being a nuclear target as context for explaining Akira's post-apocalyptic world.




Also, I can very much see myself getting behind MvC3. I wasn't that hardcore into MvC2, but it was fun just to button mash and hope for an awesome super.
 
VideoKidHEERO

VideoKidHEERO

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With MvC3, everyone's dream match-up of Hakan vs Sentinel can finally happen!

We all thought Mango-flavored Sentinel was the greatest thing ever, but it's got nothing on Oil'd Up Sentinel!
The ride... it continues.
 
Mogwai

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Jam Stunna said:
So an understanding of World War II is not necessary to appreciate Casablanca? I also don't understand how showing The Matrix to Amazonians (that is, showing a movie to a population that has no cultural framework to understand it) is an impossible argument or a strawman.

And do you mean that nothing art related has improved over time ever, or are you using some reference point that you didn't specify?

The original point of my post seems to have gotten lost, so let me reiterate: contextual understanding is crucial to appreciating art. I really don't see how you can suggest otherwise. Cogsmooch, you yourself brought up Japan's history of being a nuclear target as context for explaining Akira's post-apocalyptic world.
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Much of art can transcend context though. Understanding the art in context certainly enhances one's appreciation of it, but especially in cinema, I've come to expect highly regarded classic to more than just stand up to modern works with or without substantial contextual understanding. When I watch Psycho next to modern horror, I don't need to have a sense of Psycho's context to appreciate the elements of horror that it executes better. The problem I had with Akira is that putting it next to Princess Mononoke or Spirited Away, I just can't seem to find something that makes me like it as much or better than newer works.

Perhaps part of the issue here is that I'm very casually associated with Anime and much of what determines whether or not I like Anime lies in the artistic style, which in Akira, for one reason or another, just didn't do it for me. So I look for something beyond that to draw me in, but Akira didn't really have much in the way of redeeming qualities amongst the characters or plot to keep me interested. This is a problem I have with Anime in general, and can probably be attributed to the entire genre instead of just Akira. I guess I'm just not that into Anime :p.
 
SwiftBass

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http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2010/apr/20/new-marvel-vs-capcom-3-details-official-artwork/


"marvel 3 with a strong story line"

*sigh*

was not feelin the trailer.....so.....so....modern. Throw them mutha fuggas together and havem take you for a ride. I srsly must be the only one who liked the music in Marvel. It's likely that this looks and plays like TvC which I guess wouldn't be bad. I would've LOVE to see some HD sprites like KOF or Blaz Blu tho.
 
SleepyK

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i played some with lunchbox and roy back in my h2 beastin days.
they're some chill folk.
 
DarkDragoon

DarkDragoon

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HollaAtchaBoy said:
Not gonna lie. That interview does, indeed, have me Brawl-scared for MvC3.

30 characters instead of 56? How much diversity can there be?
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Hey. Brawl added characters and the gameplay got less diverse.

You make fewer characters with different specialties, and the game gets diverse.

-DD
 
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