Confirmed Character Discussion (Part 2)

[Red Exodus]

I just want thse guys to take their time, add a good number of characters [maybe 20 more?], change a few movesets, add a few items, add some more stages, add some more modes [single player and special modes].

Eventually I'm sure we'll all be over the missing character dilema and find new mains.

EDIT: He's short too, I think he'll be tough to hit with taller characters.

 

[Stryks]

I dont have a link, but I ve had heard it many times b4, even b4 I join SWF I think...

Anyway, I never did heard of why ganon was clone, but I got my own theory...

Weve all seen screenshots of ganon with the sword in mid battle rite? Well I believe he had a sword/magic based moveset, but ended up as a clone, why? Ill tell u, way back b4 GC was introduced, there was this trailer, of link fighting ganondorf, ganondorf has that same sword, and both looked just like in OoT, only with GC graphics, I believe sakurai saw the trailer, and made ganondorf fit the sword ganondorf of the trailer, but then either they told sakurai it was just to show off GCs graphics or the game of that trailer was canceled, thus sakurai had to re-do ganondorf, seeing how he lacked time for the moevset, he just made him a clone, something im sure he regrets...

well thats my theory XD...

 

[Red Exodus]

That's what I think too, Sakurai ran out of time so he couldn't make Ganon the way he wanted to.

 

[RVD_fan]

I think Shiek was added to give Zelda a more unique feel. Because without her ability to transform, Zelda is a pretty bland character. She just uses a bunch of magic techniques.

 

[Wrath`]

Man that took forever reading your posts.

Heres what i think
1.Sheik should stay(when have you seen g&w in a game since?)
2.More time=Less clone
3.Banned characters?(so fox gets the X?)
4.meta knight is fast but i think it was sensi who said that he would be light and weak and i agree with that.

 

[RVD_fan]

I hope Meta is pretty good I'm hoping to main him

 

[Sensai]

RVD, this is going to be an absurd thing for me to say on these boards, but you're going to have to believe it.

You can main whoever you like; tiers won't matter for quite a while.

GASP, HE SAID IT! OH **** SON!

 

[Red Exodus]

Yup, tiers require tournaments and people who play the hell out of each and every character so they find stuff like Samus' super long grapple, Samus' double missle, Fox/Falco laser cancel etc. etc.

 

[Number1Fanboy]

Yup, tiers require tournaments and people who play the hell out of each and every character so they find stuff like Samus' super long grapple, Samus' double missle, Fox/Falco laser cancel etc. etc.

lol yup yup.....and best believe i'ma find everything on link

 

[Sensai]

Shotgun Ganon and Metaknight.

 

[RVD_fan]

Well, I've never been that big on tiers and things like that, but I need to see who I'm better with:Him or C. Falcon, my previous main. I'll play as him if he sucks or not, but I'd prefer him as a good character, so I can use him competitivley.

 

[Faith]

Its not that i have a porblem with her, but seeing how she laced a role in TP, theres no reason for her to stay...

Let me explain, U c, like link, both ganondorf and zelda will probably have their look based on TP, and also zelda may get a new moveset, prumary the B moves, she has now used the light arrows in 2 zelda games, something that seems will continue, and thus should be represented in brawl, ganon will probably have the sword of sages from TP, thus:

Ganon with sword = new moveset

But thats not the point, u c if once zelda has the TP look, she'll become TP zelda, and since TP zelda doesnt transform into Sheik in TP. why would she in brawl, seriously, it would be like Link keeping the hookshot instead of the clawshot, link getting ice arrows in brawl (something he doesnt have in TP), and so on... not to mention zelda transforming into her alter ego from 100 years ago seems pointless...

Yes sheik is godly in melee, take notice sheik is not an important character in the zelda series, shes just an alter ego of zelda, that seems will never return in LoZ games, why? the point of havin shiek in OoT was to hide zeldas true identty, if shiek were to return, what the point? we know who she really is... so she will probably never to return, keepin shek in brawl is like keeping ganondorfs clone moveset instead of using his new look and his primary weapon to make him unique...

Sheik is pretty much gone, not to mention zamus seems like her replacement, cmon she pretty much has the same moves (yes 3 moves where shown, still they seem way too similair), other characters like WW link, midna and zant deserve the shot, WW link can be quite unique, and seeing how many are saying that Ylink is the true link, havin WW link wont matter, midna is a very important character, at least in TP, havinga bigger role than ganondorf and zelda, and zant, hes the 1st major boss in a home console LoZ game apart from ganondorf/ganon to appear, not to mention he may return in future zelda games (ill explain that l8r if I have to...)...

Point has been made... sheik is pretty much gone...

also master shiek pit appeared in 2 games: Kid icarus and kid icarus: myths and monsters (think that was the name)
and ness I believe he apepared in mother 1 & 2, im not sure tough...

What a load of crap D: just because a char doesn't have an extensive role in games doesn't make it a NON SSBB char. Yeah it's logical to change everything to the newer version like Link has moved on to his TP form. But that doesn't mean older chars are auto excluded.

 

[Stryks]

Actually it does, if we keep sheik then we should just keep OoT Ylink while were at it, they can make him unique and not a link clone, and they wont do that, u c:

Whatever happens in smash does NOT affect the characters of the various games smash has...
BUt
If something happens to the characters of the games smash has, then it DOES affect smash...

Sheik can be the godliest character in smash, but if shes now a minor character in the LoZ series, and wil lnever return, theres no need to keep her...

 

[Sensai]

^^^

Your logic makes sense. However, it doesn't really match with Sakurai's thinking.

Ice Climbers, Pit, Ness, Roy, Game and Watch...none of those work in your line of thinking.

 

[Stryks]

ICS, pit, ness and GaW are retros, any cool retro can be added, retros can be added since many have not and probably will never return, smash is a place where they can show off moves, and thus may become popular again and thus they may get a new game, this is what happening with Pit...

Roy was added to promote FE6 (6 or 7 forgot which)

and ness was going to b replaced by lucas, but since mother 3 was not yet released, he decided to keep ness...

Look sheik is diferent from all of those, she aint retro, lets get that clear...
Shes from the series LoZ, a series that too this day is still going, with more releases of the series every year or so, sheik is a character of OoT, that game is 10 years old now, and her main reason in that game was to hide zelda true identity, now that we know who sheik is, its highly unlikely she'll return, the series is still going, and she aint nowhere to be seen...

The retros are another story, all of them where the main stars in their games, had the main role, and thus important, but seeing how they may never return, sakurai decided to give life to them by adding them in smash, sheik aint the main character in the LoZ series, she is know a secondary character that, like tera from WW, will probably never return... but the diference her is that the LoZ series is still going, something pits, ICs, mach riders and others arent...

 

[shadenexus18]

Hmm.....I think I'll watch this arguement from the shadows since I don't want to offend anybody.

*Shade watches from a distance*

 

[Rhyme]

Uber longness, sorry but I've been mysteriously absent for some time.

RVD, this is going to be an absurd thing for me to say on these boards, but you're going to have to believe it.

You can main whoever you like; tiers won't matter for quite a while.

GASP, HE SAID IT! OH **** SON!

Haha, that's good. But seriously, no one should let tiers stop them from playing a character, for fun or competitively. You should play your favorite, that's why Nintendo puts so many popular characters into the game.

I dont have a link, but I ve had heard it many times b4, even b4 I join SWF I think...

Anyway, I never did heard of why ganon was clone, but I got my own theory...

Weve all seen screenshots of ganon with the sword in mid battle rite? Well I believe he had a sword/magic based moveset, but ended up as a clone, why? Ill tell u, way back b4 GC was introduced, there was this trailer, of link fighting ganondorf, ganondorf has that same sword, and both looked just like in OoT, only with GC graphics, I believe sakurai saw the trailer, and made ganondorf fit the sword ganondorf of the trailer, but then either they told sakurai it was just to show off GCs graphics or the game of that trailer was canceled, thus sakurai had to re-do ganondorf, seeing how he lacked time for the moevset, he just made him a clone, something im sure he regrets...

well thats my theory XD...

Woah! Deja vu...I swear you've said exactly that before, several weeks ago.

Hey I know the chances of wolf and dark samus becoming clones are some what high, still remember all the clones in melee were made clones due to lack of time, they were running out of time and thus they didnt have time to make a unique moveset for all the other characters...

Its not the case here, sakurai has had over a year now to make the game, and has all '07 to complete the game, yes theres a chance, but due to the fact that sakurai has way more time developing this game than he had with melee, I believe every character will turn out unique...

I think everyone here would rather Nintendo push back the release of Brawl if it meant that there were no clones.

well i dont think he would be banned, he doesnt look as good as everyone is saying...maybe its just for the flashiness of the trailers. however, if he is that fast and rapid attacking, its probably going to come at a price. aka, very light, and weak attacks. its proabably going to take a good 20 attacks to get someone into KOing range with him. and he would probably die at very low percents. remember, mewtwo could have been heavy, but wasnt because he 'floated'. combine that with meta knights size, and you have a very light-weight character (a.k.a. ko'ed at 60-80% off the top/side barriers). so i wouldnt worry too much.

If you have ever paid attention to multi-hit attacks in Melee, your question would be answered. For those who don't understand, I will explain.(Hint: This is my idea, not fact.)

Some attacks in Natural Combos(Samus' upB, Falcon's tap A repeatedly) count as hits but do no damage, especially after several repetitions of the attack. Metaknight's multiple slashes won't deal normal hit damage, it will be reduced or perhaps removed. Don't worry, the attack will deal normal damage, and provide plenty of lag if the player misses.(I hope.)

Who the HELL said Yoshi was broken in 64? You get a cookie for making me laugh so hard (you're joking, right?).

And I'm kinda worried about Metaknight...he honest to god looks scary. I fear that this game might see the first 'universally banned' character, and it might just be him. Thoughts?

Make that two cookies. For the love of all that is scientific, Nintendo MUST be carefull with Metaknight.

Banning characters from tournaments is ********, only scrub tournaments do it.

And Shiek is not 'too good' either. Yes she's easy to pick up and play but she's difficiult to master, not unlike most characters. She's probably gone for the reasons Stryks stated, at first I didn't want to agree but he's right so it would be foolish of me to go against it [much like how tha guy keeps going on about YL].

There is much logic present here.

This is true, but Sheik is SHEIK because of Smash, certainly not because of Oot! On top of that, she has such a huge fanbase as compared to someone like Pichu, lol. Nevertheless, I will trust Sakurai to do what is best for the world of smash, if that mean Sheik gets “Ze Boot” then out she must go, (BUT SOMEONE BETTER PLAY LIKE HER....I’m looking at you Zero-Suite Samus!)

That's why she's a not-so-deserving character to return. With any luck, ZSS will be the new Shiek as we all predicted.

Rhyme:

This is going to come hard to you, but it must be said: this is the Internet. Not everything on the Internet is true...sorry. IGN has the date set in Japan based on the assumption that it will, in fact, see release in '07. Thus, setting it as the LAST day is the safest bet. The same, well not exactly but y'know, could be said for the 4 player thing, too. They're just going on a safe bet.

They have some GC game (I'm pretty sure it's that unreleased Kirby game) with a release date set to sometime in 2999, or something crazy like that.

I'll be quiet now.

 

[KalimariDark]

I'll be quiet now.

Lol, I applaude your humility. Though, I'd say Brawl is coming out at every date every site has shown, because we all know the Internet cannot tell a lie. Wouldn't that be great? It would keep it at $50+ dollars forever though^^;;
Eh, I'm getting it on it's first launch date. What do I care?

 

[Wrath`]

I dont want to say bye to shiek,even i i hate her

 

[Dyse]

I think Sheik can be considered a retro character, seeing as how OoT came out, what, a decade ago, or close to it? Besides, OoT has been ported several times. Sheik for Brawl.

 

[GreenMamba]

The retro characters in Smash are the main characters of their respective series, Sheik is not, in any way, shape, or form. Her time has come and gone, accept it, and move on.

This argument for Sheik to return seems less tied to her quality as a Zelda character and more on her popularity as a Smash character. Had Sheik not been high tier, I can garantee you she wouldn't have nearly the amount of support for her return had she been low tier. The pro Sheik side almost seems to be arguing for the metagame of Melee to not change, which everyone with half a brain knows it will. Do you remember what happened to Kirby, Ness, and Pikachu? If Sheik made it into Brawl, I have a pretty good feeling she'd be nerfed to the lowest level of hell, and her popularity, much like the high tier characters of SSB to SSBM, would wane until it is nigh non-existant, making her nothing much more than a waste of programming time that could have been spent on a character who deserves to be in Brawl for their merit in their respective series instead of one that was left in Brawl because of her popularity at the top level of Melee play.

I apologize for the run on sentence.

 

[Andromeda]

Have you noticed the character-symbols in the second Brawl trailer? It gave me a thought back to the character-symbols in Melee. Which ones was only for ONE character? It was Ice Climbers... C.Falcons... Samus's... MrGAWs... Kirbys... and Yoshis. Those are the ones I could remind myself of by this time. But those were only 5 out of 25! The new symbols I've seen is Snakes of course and Pits. Those characters don't have sidekicks and such. But what about Wario? His symbol is a W.

I better get to the point, right? In Melee, there was a lot of symbols that was representing more than one character. Will it be so in Brawl too, with the new symbols? Will characters from the Wario Ware-series appear in Brawl under Warios W symbol like Mona or Jimmy T.? As Wario is dressed as he is in the Wario Ware-series, I find it at least a bit likely. But what about Snake and Pit? Snakes symbol is that wolf. And Pits symbol is a bow and arrow. Do they have any characters that could appear under the same banner?

 

[Stryks]

Snakes symbol is a fox, not a wolf...
Anyway, yeah if any character is added of the wario series/pit series/ snake series they will probably have the same symbols...

 

[Andromeda]

Snakes symbol is a fox, not a wolf...
Anyway, yeah if any character is added of the wario series/pit series/ snake series they will probably have the same symbols...

My bad. How would I know when I've never played any Metal Gear-game? Foxes and wolfs looks so much like eachother.

 

[RVD_fan]

But think about how boring a character Zelda would be without her transformation. Her being the only transforming character made her unique, her other attacks weren't anything to write home about.

 

[GreenMamba]

But think about how boring a character Zelda would be without her transformation. Her being the only transforming character made her unique, her other attacks weren't anything to write home about.

Melee =/= Brawl.

Characters are bound to change. Heck, if they remove Sheik, they could spend more time working on Zelda to make her better. Who knows, Zelda may become high tier--you can't just assume everything about a character in Brawl based on their Melee appearance, that's ignorant.

 

[blackmagicmoe]

sorry dozed of for a bit... took me a while to read all the posts ive missed... all i will say is i believe sheik shoudnt return.. zelda yes.. but sheik is a no.. she was only used in OoT to hide herself from ganandorfs paws.. i would have dressed up as someone else to to get away from gananondorf.. lol getting off topic...anyways.. sheik has to go to make room for new characters like diddy and dixie as a tag team... but Donkey Kong deserves more characters on brawl in his franchize.. diddy is practically waiting for his time to shine.. anyone agree??

lol anyways i know no one cares what i say cause ima noob

I apologize for my changing of topics and maybe posts that dont belong in the section my bad... thats what noobs are for.

 

[rm88]

I really don't want to see Diddy AND Dixie as a tag team. It worked with the Ice Climbers because Nana and Popo are almost identical, they have the same abilities. Diddy would not be able to use his tail since Dixie has no tail, and Dixie would not be able to use her ponytail for the same reason (what's Diddy supposed to do while Dixie is spinning in the air?). I hope you get the point >_<

 

[ClarkJables]

yah, no more clones for brawl!

 

[Rhyme]

The retro characters in Smash are the main characters of their respective series, Sheik is not, in any way, shape, or form. Her time has come and gone, accept it, and move on.

Run on sentence...

I apologize for the run on sentence.

That was a highly respectable run-on sentence, however. It's just too run-on-ish for me to quote.

Do they have any characters that could appear under the same banner?

They do, but none which I could imagine having enough significance to Nintendo that they might be given a spot on the roster.

But think about how boring a character Zelda would be without her transformation. Her being the only transforming character made her unique, her other attacks weren't anything to write home about.

Oh no? Zelda arguably had some of the most powerful ariel attacks in smash, provided you knew how to utilize them effectively. You might also be forgetting that: Mario isn't special, neither is Luigi, nor Falcon, not Fox, certainly not Kirby nor even Jigglypuff. All characters share something in common with eachother. Not all characters are unique, without her transforming ability, Zelda will just blend back into the crowd.

From a slightly different point of view, let us for a few moments assume that Shiek will be in Brawl, and that she will transform from Zelda. Well, now Zelda is not unique because we have another transforming character, Zamus. Whether she loses this transforming ability or not, Zelda will not be any bit more unique, so there remains no good reason to keep Shiek around, so far as I can see.

My bad. How would I know when I've never played any Metal Gear-game? Foxes and wolfs looks so much like eachother.

Ahh...far too many a time have I mistaken a fox for a wolf, besides the size ratio there are not many appreciable differences between the species.

sorry dozed of for a bit... took me a while to read all the posts ive missed... all i will say is i believe sheik shoudnt return.. zelda yes.. but sheik is a no.. she was only used in OoT to hide herself from ganandorfs paws.. i would have dressed up as someone else to to get away from gananondorf.. lol getting off topic...anyways.. sheik has to go to make room for new characters like diddy and dixie as a tag team... but Donkey Kong deserves more characters on brawl in his franchize.. diddy is practically waiting for his time to shine.. anyone agree??

lol anyways i know no one cares what i say cause ima noob

I apologize for my changing of topics and maybe posts that dont belong in the section my bad... thats what noobs are for.

Zelda is far to important to exclude from Brawl's roster, especially since she has already fought among the ranks of Melee's fighters. Quite possibly every user on this board, including myself, would agree with you on that Diddy Kong statement.

Have some confidence, being a newcomer doesn't make your ideas any less important. Just make sure to post coherently and other users will address you with respect. Well...most will...

Don't worry, as long as Ipsy isn't here, n00bs can run wild and free as they please.

 

[Stryks]

Agree with rhyme in the last part, whenever a new guy actually give his opinions, gives reasons and ideas in his/hers posts, it makes me happy XD instead of other n00bs that go:

" X character will be a clone of Y character"
" I hope X character stays cause I main him/her/it!"
" I want (insert 5 3rd party characters here)!"

that just pises me off lol...

 

[The rAt]

Melee =/= Brawl.

You just rocked my world.

Agree with rhyme in the last part, whenever a new guy actually give his opinions, gives reasons and ideas in his/hers posts, it makes me happy XD instead of other n00bs that go:

" X character will be a clone of Y character"
" I hope X character stays cause I main him/her/it!"
" I want (insert 5 3rd party characters here)!"

that just pises me off lol...

Its nice to hear someone else post my ideas in a concise and timely manner. Please continue to be good at life.

From a slightly different point of view, let us for a few moments assume that Shiek will be in Brawl, and that she will transform from Zelda. Well, now Zelda is not unique because we have another transforming character, Zamus. Whether she loses this transforming ability or not, Zelda will not be any bit more unique, so there remains no good reason to keep Shiek around, so far as I can see.

Have some confidence, being a newcomer doesn't make your ideas any less important. Just make sure to post coherently and other users will address you with respect. Well...most will...

Don't worry, as long as Ipsy isn't here, n00bs can run wild and free as they please.

First of all, Rhyme, I don't know if I've ever told you this, but you are the hardest person to quote. Ever. Your fancy fonts and crazy colors will be the death of me.

Secondly, That's a good point about Zelda. The thing that made the character unique has been replicated. Sorta like the whole clone thing. Since the characters are going to change, and they appear to be taking a Twillight Princess approach on the characters, I just don't see how including Sheik makes any sense at all.

Thirdly, where the heck is Ipslne? I miss reading about things which have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Fourthly, I've been fairly busy with school recently; have we found out anythng new recently, or is Nintendo still dangling this one over our heads, just out of our reach, like the merciless, Wii-withholding, satan-worshipping, misery-peddling, impotent sadists that they are?

Anyhow, I've got some not-being-here that needs doing, and this post was pretty friggin long before I even started typing, so I'm done. Later.

Andy

 

[Wrath`]

i get what you guys are saying about skiek,but shiek is an original and i dont think they will kill her just yet.zamus so far(although simalar)is quite diffrent,hence the reason of she has a weapon wich will proabably led to nonhand combat but just whiping that thing around wich wouldnt give her a fell like shiek whatsoever.

 

[blackmagicmoe]

That was a highly respectable run-on sentence, however. It's just too run-on-ish for me to quote.



They do, but none which I could imagine having enough significance to Nintendo that they might be given a spot on the roster.



Oh no? Zelda arguably had some of the most powerful ariel attacks in smash, provided you knew how to utilize them effectively. You might also be forgetting that: Mario isn't special, neither is Luigi, nor Falcon, not Fox, certainly not Kirby nor even Jigglypuff. All characters share something in common with eachother. Not all characters are unique, without her transforming ability, Zelda will just blend back into the crowd.

From a slightly different point of view, let us for a few moments assume that Shiek will be in Brawl, and that she will transform from Zelda. Well, now Zelda is not unique because we have another transforming character, Zamus. Whether she loses this transforming ability or not, Zelda will not be any bit more unique, so there remains no good reason to keep Shiek around, so far as I can see.



Ahh...far too many a time have I mistaken a fox for a wolf, besides the size ratio there are not many appreciable differences between the species.



Zelda is far to important to exclude from Brawl's roster, especially since she has already fought among the ranks of Melee's fighters. Quite possibly every user on this board, including myself, would agree with you on that Diddy Kong statement.

Have some confidence, being a newcomer doesn't make your ideas any less important. Just make sure to post coherently and other users will address you with respect. Well...most will...

Don't worry, as long as Ipsy isn't here, n00bs can run wild and free as they please.

thanks...



about the other comment i never firgured it that way about diddy and dixie... maybe they can be siwtched via b button down... maybe? like in one of those dk gameboy games i cant think of right now.

 

[shadenexus18]

But think about how boring a character Zelda would be without her transformation. Her being the only transforming character made her unique, her other attacks weren't anything to write home about.

But what about Zelda's Trump Card? "The Midair Lightning Kick." That's her ace in the hole.

But yeah bro I feel ya. I can't imagine Sakurai taking Sheik off of the game. She's the only ninja esque character that we've got!

 

[Devastlian]

I think ZSS's inheirited moves from Sheik could be attributed to her incompleteness and could just be place holders since they have similarly shaped bodies. Evidence of such incompleteness is the fact that she doesn't produce smoke/dust after doing her aerial attacks and I don't think those are B moves (the really fast one the Halberd might be but the Captain Falcon/Ganondorf's neutral A aerial like move in the six second clip and the back kick from the NWT I'm sure aren't).

Also, you can tell by the smoke/dust that Meta Knight (and Wario) in that one scene don't waveland.

 

[RVD_fan]

We have no idea how the transformation between Samus and Zamus will work. For all we know it could be there super. Besides, just because a move is old doesn't mean it should be removed. I mean, lots of people in smash have moves that they never even used in there games. Did Luigi ever fire himself sideways at people? Did DK ever stand there smacking the ground? Did C. Falcon even have any moves in his game? No. So any move that has ever been used in a popular game by a character is worth having in Brawl.

 

[Devastlian]

Did DK ever stand there smacking the ground?

Yup. http://youtube.com/watch?v=_to3eKGJISg

 

[Komayto]

We have no idea how the transformation between Samus and Zamus will work. For all we know it could be there super. Besides, just because a move is old doesn't mean it should be removed. I mean, lots of people in smash have moves that they never even used in there games. Did Luigi ever fire himself sideways at people? Did DK ever stand there smacking the ground? Did C. Falcon even have any moves in his game? No. So any move that has ever been used in a popular game by a character is worth having in Brawl.

You make it look like Sheik is just a move while she is actually a whole new character.

Bringing her back would take as much effort as bringing back any other character. They would have to create a new character model, tweak the properties of her moves, etc.
I kind of doubt they would bother to go through all this for a character who will most likely never appear in the series again and whose popularity is mostly gathered from Smash Bros, not the game she was in.

 

[J Tangle]

Alright Im finally done reading. First of all y are u guys still talkin bout sheik shes gone just like G&W, young link, and ice climbers. OoT is old now move on. A new zelda character might be in the works since she fights with u in TP. Why would sheik return If Zamus mimics her speed and kicks so she is no longer needed. Not only that in brawl u are now able to customize your characters power, speed, clothing etc. The point in smash bros. is to bring characters from there current games and have them brawl. So y in the hell would sheik be there if shes not in TP.