Confirmed Character Discussion (Part 2)

[Rhyme]

Oh really? I'm gonna be the first to say this?! Well, alright, if you insist.

The Mario Tornado is still Mario's downB special move.

There, I said it. How, you ask?

Quite simple. DK has a downB that doesn't work in the air. Link's upB changes drastically depending on whether or not his feet are planted firmly on the ground. Same goes for many other characters but I don't feel like listing them all.

Point?

If Mario's feet are planted firmly on the ground, he can use the high-powered FLUUD. If he's in midair, the Mario Tornado will take effect instead.

Haha, I feel like such a jerk for posting it that way...point made and taken, though.

EDIT: Oh, and an afterthought occurs. Moving and shooting update, anyone? Personally, I'd say "NO", just because Mario couldn't move while free-aiming FLUUD in Sunshine to the best of my knowledge. Just a possibility is all.

 

[PaperMario4Lyfe]

Snake needs to go i think, i would prefer it so much more if he wasent there, he really is the deffinition of a wtf? character for me

 

[Shritistrang]

Snake needs to go i think, i would prefer it so much more if he wasent there, he really is the deffinition of a wtf? character for me

What do you mean, he needs to go? It's already decided that he will be in, you know?

 

[johnjoelw]

Snake needs to go i think, i would prefer it so much more if he wasent there, he really is the deffinition of a wtf? character for me

you know the more I think about it, the more I agree. If They arnt going to do snake right ( no guns or lethal moves) I think they shouldnt do him at all. I allways thought the first konomi character should be A whip whelding belmont. w/e the decisions have been made. Nothing you can do now but wait and see.

Man Yeah Snake WTH! Sonic or Mega man or somthing makes more sense. Holy crap you got me urk'ed.

 

[Knyaguy]

you know the more I think about it, the more I agree. If They arnt going to do snake right ( no guns or lethal moves) I think they shouldnt do him at all. I allways thought the first konomi character should be A whip whelding belmont. w/e the decisions have been made. Nothing you can do now but wait and see.

Man Yeah Snake WTH! Sonic or Mega man or somthing makes more sense. Holy crap you got me urk'ed.

The smbolicness of snake is why i think that he should be included in brawl. A 3rd party character in brawl opens the doors door 3rd party characters in later smash bros games

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

The smbolicness...

Haha! I like it! Probably just a typo on your part, but "SMBolism" could definitely be a Smash term. Now that you invented the word, you just need to think of a good meaning for it.

 

[-NEOLINK-]

Mario's down b (rapid press) is gonna be the Mario Tornado thats what my idea is, because you know with special moves who knows since they said try different things such as holding the button, rapidly press, and tilt so theres an actual chance that rapid press/holding produce different attacks.

i actually believe Rhyme's theory though too...sakurai shouldnt try to lie to me like that....

oh ya heres the boxart for Brawl
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187272
...so yeah..you can speculate about unlockable characters and etc more

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

^^^^
But just remember, Sakurai said we wouldn't need to mash buttons anymore. If we hold down a button it's the same as mashing.

EDIT:
You know what, I take that back. That wouldn't make any sense for B moves. But I still don't think the Tornado will be a B move, just Mario's dAir.

 

[-NEOLINK-]

i see.... i see...

 

[deebz435]

I like Rhyme's theory and i could see it working, but we wont know for sure until we see all of his moves.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Anyway though, I'm seeing major lag on the F.L.U.D.D. on start and finish. It's going to be such an unfair edge-guarding tool. It may even be worse than Link's uB. Still... nothing is as cheap as Peach's Smash dA.

 

[Banana_Dragon]

Yeah, the Mario Tornado would be nice if it was a Down-B in the air... They could pull it off in various ways though, so, for now, nothing but waiting.
This "does" however open up for indeed interesting possibilities.
Luigi's Poltergust 3000 for example, that'd rock.
And I can see Zelda's Down-B being changed to an actual attack as well... But that's of course, only speculation.
And yeah, maybe DK's Down-B in the air actually DOIN SOMETHING this time around.

 

[gamelover15]

Haha, there are more FLUDD praisers than those who realize how unfair it might actually be...

Oh well, Mario need a upgrade anyways. I just hope that the knockback isn't too powerful at low percentages, like Fox's Down B x.x

 

[Rhyme]

Banana_Dragon: Luigi's downB on the ground is actually useful, though, unlike Mario's. Still, if the Poltergeist 3000 could be implimented, thatd be SIIICK!

Zelda probably will have a single downB that's not a transformation, but who am I to pass that kind of judgement.

Yes, DK's Dair actually doing something would be nice.


People, I WILL bet money that Mario's Dair isn't Melee's Mario Tornado. Dairs just don't work like that. Don't point to Shiek, that was balancing in the works. Don't point to Luigi or Roy, either. Those alternate hitboxes are for diversity and both attacks still have meteor capabilities. Mario's Dair will probably still be a drill kick, but I'm SURE that it ISN'T a tornado.

EDIT: gamelover15: You mean like how nobody sees the potential of Bullet Seed?

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Rhyme, just do me a favor and head on over to the "Mario's Got New Moves?" thread. You can get there easily from SmashBrawl. Look at all the comparisons and observations that others and I have made proving that the Mario Tornado is now Mario's dAir.

 

[brawlpro]

wait...how, it is not sir...

 

[Masque]

Anyway though, I'm seeing major lag on the F.L.U.D.D. on start and finish. It's going to be such an unfair edge-guarding tool. It may even be worse than Link's uB. Still... nothing is as cheap as Peach's Smash dA.

Spoiler

Peach's DSmash isn't cheap; it just is very likely to place Peach in an advantageous position, or at least one better than her situation prior to using said attack. It's hard for me to badmouth something that I love so!

Major F.L.U.D.D. lag is inherent. If there isn't a ton of lag, we could have a problem.

EDIT: gamelover15: You mean like how nobody sees the potential of Bullet Seed?

Ooh! Ooh! Me! I do!

Really, though, Bullet Seed has the ability to string together combos/juggles; in addition, it restricts the opponent's approach to a horizontal level, since he or she will be unable to strike Ivysaur very well from the air.

 

[Devastlian]

I'd just like to point out that you could strafe and aim up and down by hold L and R in SMS. Of course, you move really slow which probably would be fair enough for SSBB.

Concerning Bullet Seed, it'll probably be useless as the similarily vertical Thunderbolt.

 

[smashbot226]

Who will be your first Pokemon choice if you play as PKMN Trainer? Squirtle for me, man.

 

[Circus]

Who will be your first Pokemon choice if you play as PKMN Trainer? Squirtle for me, man.

Ivysaur, for sure. He's just my favorite of the three pokemon. Squirtle looks like he may be more fun though.

Which I myself find odd, since fire pokemon have always been one of my favorite types. And I almost always picked Charmander as my starter in the original games.

 

[Devastlian]

I'm not sure whom I'd start with...I like all three of them but I'd probably go with Squirtle since I dig water types and stuff. But the other two look rather cool as well.

 

[smashbot226]

Oh dear... I think I caused thirty spasms over my question to first gen fanboys round the world over my question...

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I'd just like to point out that you could strafe and aim up and down by hold L and R in SMS. Of course, you move really slow which probably would be fair enough for SSBB.

Concerning Bullet Seed, it'll probably be useless as the similarily vertical Thunderbolt.

Yes, maybe you will be able to walk very slowly with it. But I wonder if you can jump with it?

And Thunderbolt isn't entirely useless. It's dominant in casual play, but once you start getting good and competative it sort of loses a lot of its usage. You need to be in just the right position to make it work for you. But it will work and can be useful unlike some moves (Kirby's Hammer, going past the second sword swing of Marth's fB, Link's Arrows...).

 

[smashbot226]

Well, no damage, good pushback sound like a 7/10 for me...

 

[Devastlian]

Well, I just meant that it's more situational like Thunderbolt is and probably not as useless as everyone is predicting it'll be.

Actually, looking back at the update, there's no implication that you can aim it since the "Tilt the Control Stick down and press the B Button to charge up..." is just how you do the move in the first place...which has probably been mentioned somewhere already. It's odd they say 'B' instead of 'special move button' or whatever.

 

[brawler12]

I agree ivysaur is the only four paws user it can't jump very well from what I have seen. Many people will try to attack from above so bullet seed well be more of a defensive and a combo stater kind of move.

 

[Rhyme]

Dyce, do me a favor and read this:

Maybe the down B functions completely different on land and airborne with some characters. Sakurai posted on the special move update that some moves would behave differently on the ground and in the air.

"To enjoy more of the depth of special moves, try holding the button down longer to charge up attacks, rapidly pressing the button repeatedly, or tilting the Control Stick while doing the moves. You might also want to try them in midair.

Surprisingly, there’s a variety of hidden uses for many of them. "

This opens up a way to add more specials to the game. Perhaps now DK's down B finlly does something in the air.

Posted on the very thread you asked me to read. Perhaps you should have done the same. Seriously, I DON'T feel like debating this. HOW can you?

The post is by Bowserlick, the quoted section within is from Mr. Sakurai himself.

Aeris: That's why Peach players spam the Dsmash, there's absolutely no downside to doing so. This is exactly why it must be nerfed in some way.

Yeah, Bulbasaur's bullet seed will probably have rediculously high priority and low knockback, which will make it perfect for aerial combos and edgeguarding. Look at Yoshi's Dtilt, for example. It doesn't exactly kill Fox, but if Fox can't make it back to the edge because he keeps getting Dtilted, he might as well be dead.

Yes, maybe you will be able to walk very slowly with it. But I wonder if you can jump with it?But it will work and can be useful unlike some moves (Kirby's Hammer, going past the second sword swing of Marth's fB, Link's Arrows...).

Hm...well...it could be loosely considered an item special like Diddy's upB, which means that perhaps some of the randomness associated with item specials applies to FLUDD? "Moving and shooting" is certainly a possibility that deserves consideration.

Ken uses Marth's entire sword dance combos, I definately value Link's arrows, but you've got me on Kirby's hammer.

Well, I just meant that it's more situational like Thunderbolt is and probably not as useless as everyone is predicting it'll be.

Actually, looking back at the update, there's no implication that you can aim it since the "Tilt the Control Stick down and press the B Button to charge up..." is just how you do the move in the first place...which has probably been mentioned somewhere already. It's odd they say 'B' instead of 'special move button' or whatever.

Thunder is MOSTLY useless, it's a strategic move more than anything. All about mindgames. Your opponent could be launched barely away from the level and set up for another downB, or they could risk being Naired/Fsmashed by avoiding the thunder. Entirely up to them.

I'm guessing that Ivysaur won't be able to tilt Bullet Seed. I'll also go out on a limb and say that it would be broken if he could tilt it.

 

[METROID MAN]

I agree ivysaur is the only four paws user it can't jump very well from what I have seen. Many people will try to attack from above so bullet seed well be more of a defensive and a combo stater kind of move.

no, you are wrong. IVASAUR CAN FLY.
have you never seen him fly?

 

[smashbot226]

Hmm... if you could tiltIvysaur's bullet seed... there is so much MORE potential...

The greatest edge guard in the world.

 

[Rhyme]

Lol, hence the brokenness, which then suggests that it either cannot be tilted or has very little variability.

 

[Devastlian]

Here's a random thought that probably isn't original...

What if the Mario Tornado is an aerial Z move? <_< <_< <_<

 

[Rhyme]

Wouldn't that be the same thing as a Nair?

 

[Devastlian]

Not necessarily. It'd be like with Link, Young Link, and Samus as a sort of awkward attack that helps with recovery.

 

[Repryx]

Good way to add a new slew of attacks...I like it

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I'm pretty sure that sounds kinda rediculous.

 

[Repryx]

*Kicks Dyce* You're mean...its not totally out of the question


ridiculous*

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Sorry, I should have explained more as to why it sounds "ridiculous" but as I was starting to explain, my girlfriend came to pick me up for some Starbucks. So I just kinda rushed and sent that post in a hurry. Let me finish my disapproval:

Unless Mario's grab or running grab is a spin move (not the throw, the grab) it won't make sense and ultimately would be a ridiculous concept. To be able to recover properly with that move, Mario would have to mash the Z button. Look at how Mario moves in the trailer when he does it to Link, he doesn't move horizontally at all. Maybe it's just me but IMO mashing the Z button (or any of the shoulder buttons for that matter) to recover just seems silly and wouldn't make a whole lot of sense if it was in Smash.

 

[Legolastom]

*Looks at Link*

*Then looks at Samus*

*Then looks at Zamus's breasts*

Unless we have air grabs... : P

 

[Devastlian]

I was just saying that, for the other 23 characters Z in the air is just an alternate way of doing a normal aerial attack and having Z do an alternative attack really doesn't seem that weird to me. The whole mashing thing really isn't that awkward if you're playing with a Classic Controller but I guess it would be with a GCN controller. And the whole horizontal thing doesn't make any sense because the person playing could simply not be tilting the control stick when they do the move.

The only thing that seems off about this would be that, since Z is a macro of L/R + A, doing it with those buttons would be weird and being able to do it out of an air dodge would be kinda broken unless they simply made that impossible.

 

[Legolastom]

Yhea you have to consider other controllers in this as well XS the CC has no way of pulling it off.