Confirmed Character Discussion (Part 2)

[Fawriel]

Rat, I liked your rant about the Icies. I haven't thought about them like that yet... however, there's still the possibility that representatives of a smaller franchise might be replaced by other representatives of other smaller franchises. From what I hear, the Icies were just one of a couple ( a couple of a couple more? ) of characters from similarly popular games. It wouldn't surprise me to see them removed for, say, Balloon Fighter or so. But the point that they won't be removed for side-characters is a good one.

Second, in video games gameplay most always trumps story (except in RPGs). Thus sometimes even the main characters can be a bit one-dimensional, leaving the secondary characters even more so. Because the purpose of any given game is to showcase its main character, often the sidecharacters are nothing more than scenery. Therefore the personalities which are generally attributed to sidecharacters are most often the work of bad fan-fic and fanboy wet dreams, based on sparce information at best. What I am referring to and what annoys me is that what people often want and refer is that, not the character itself, because in the case of most side characters, they aren't actual characters. Why? Because they haven't been developed beyond how they relate to the central character (Bowser and Peach being exceptions to this rule).

I disagree. There are a lot of exceptions... mostly in scenarios with a silent protagonist.
Also, the "personality" of a video game character is often born from the circumstances they are in. Do you have any idea where Snake goes when he has a free day and what his favourite sport is? I wonder whether he plays pool in pubs or so. But whatever the case, he's from a very different game, he is a very different type of hero, so all in all, his character is unique in Smash.
And I think that the character with the most personality in Smash, is Luigi. His whole moveset is based around his relation to Mario and his personality: He always has to try to be like his brother who overshadows him, but doesn't quite manage to copy him... yet his lack of skills sometimes turns out to make the attack better than the original, and still it isn't enough to compensate for the masterfulness of Mario's acrobatic skills ( as Luigi is only able to jump high, but not far ).

Many characters in video games or in general have personalities that you wouldn't be able to summarize in words, but that you can somehow feel the presence of just by the way they talk and move and do things.

Of course...
That is always the exceptions and most characters EVERYWHERE are two-dimensional and almost all characters are just wanted for being "cool" or something like it.

Still. =P

 

[P3L!C@N]

I really feel like I should steer things back towards topic, but it really seems like everything has been discussed. Anyone else notice they've been a bit lax on info on the special moves?

There. I tried.

Yeah, all that really stands out to me is Wario's fart, Pit's arrows, and Yoshi's egg toss...and even with those have they not really mentioned much.

 

[McShine]

Releases December 3rd , can't wait! Also, I hope I can take his word for it for being the best one yet . So far I'm a believer .

 

[McShine]

Yeah, all that really stands out to me is Wario's fart, Pit's arrows, and Yoshi's egg toss...and even with those have they not really mentioned much.

Can't be SSB without Fox =]
however to reply to you boot statement, the Boots during gameplay seemed to be more normal compared to to the artist drawing of fox at the end of the fox screening

 

[McShine]

Yeah, all that really stands out to me is Wario's fart, Pit's arrows, and Yoshi's egg toss...and even with those have they not really mentioned much.

I second this ... They seem to be building the suspense on surprises for this, the revealing these special moves for the characters will be most interesting. that is if they decide to do it before having us find out for ourselves.

 

[P3L!C@N]

So I have a question:

When Sakurai explained the footstool jump, the last image is of Yoshi performing a meteor smash. Does that mean his dair is replaced? Or are all dairs following a footstool jump meteor smashes? Personally I preferred his flutter dair. It's been a signature Yoshi move since day one.

 

[AS Juggernaut]

I know your new McShine so I thought I'd let you know. You shouldnt double post, just edit your post if nobody has said anything after your post.

And to keep this somewhat on topic, cant wait to see some new brawl characters (probly months away from seeing that).

 

[Devastlian]

So I have a question:

When Sakurai explained the footstool jump, the last image is of Yoshi performing a meteor smash. Does that mean his dair is replaced? Or are all dairs following a footstool jump meteor smashes? Personally I preferred his flutter dair. It's been a signature Yoshi move since day one.

I think he's saying that footstool jumps are meteor smashes when used on someone who's in the air. The animation they're showing in that shot looks like he's jumping back off of Wario.

 

[Sensai]

Speaking of footstool jumps, I'm not completely sure I like 'em...I mean, if you can only do it when the other person is stable (not flailing, using an Up B, etc), then that'll be fine.

But if Fox does his Up B and I just jump on top of him to spike him....well, that's just dumb.

 

[Fawriel]

Speaking of footstool jumps, I'm not completely sure I like 'em...I mean, if you can only do it when the other person is stable (not flailing, using an Up B, etc), then that'll be fine.

But if Fox does his Up B and I just jump on top of him to spike him....well, that's just dumb.

That's extremely unlikely. You probably have to land right on the head of the person, then the animation starts and then the falling/jumping ensues... considering it's not even an attack so much as a gameplay mechanic, it's likely to have the worst priority possible.

 

[mood4food77]

they look hard to pull off, so it's not completely broken

i mean, teh use on stage looks pointless but in the air it looks like to have some use, incredibly useful meteor too, but still looks hard to pull off, so it won't be broken

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Speaking of footstool jumps, I'm not completely sure I like 'em...I mean, if you can only do it when the other person is stable (not flailing, using an Up B, etc), then that'll be fine.

But if Fox does his Up B and I just jump on top of him to spike him....well, that's just dumb.

I kinda agree with sensai. Because there could be ghey issues ,where one charecter has godly good foot jump mechanic. and others don't. For example look at bowser he sucks at like everything but has the best edge grab in the game.Thats just my opinion though

 

[RAWR its Luigi]

it looks to me as if all the new stages ive seen on brawl will have certain char advantages
it fields of jumping,floating and so on like the stage that breaks apart im sure only a few people will pwn there but it looks uber fun and i cant wait to play the game

 

[The rAt]

Fawriel = an example of an intelligent person giving an intelligent counterpoint, maintaining disagreement without intentionally offending.

P3L!C@N = a great example of trying (and succeeding) in getting us back on the right track.

The rAt = often somewhat of a jack*** who every once in awhile just doesn't let things go. Let me demonstrate:

ASJ, what makes a character a character? PERSONALITY (pardon the caps, but they're for emphasis). Being cocky is one dimension of a person's personality, because I don't care how cocky a person is, there is more to them than that. In a central character you play as them the entire game, so you see them more than just when they're being cocky. Or any other single trait. Usually enough to extrapolate a personality from. In a side character they're usually not on the screen much. So when they're there you see one side of them. Hence why they are less developed, hence why they often add less.
As far as my second point, it helps to understand when you read it for intent rather than the purpose of disagreeing with it. You might have caught then that what I was trying to say is that what most side-character fanboys want isn't an acual character, but a particular skin upon which to superimpose their own personal idea of what sort of personality the character might have. I want characters that come with a personality. Sometimes side-characters fit that bill. Often they don't.
And finally, seeing as how you comepletely restating my entire third point for me, while obviously missing that it was exactly what I was saying, let me break it down for you a second time; Your opinion matters to Nintendo if, and only if, a bunch of people agree with you, not because you hold it. Sounds obvious, I know, but you'd be surprised how narcisistic human beings can be sometimes.
While this may in fact be a case of the kettle calling the pot black (and probably is), your points would have been a lot more intelligent if you didn't spend as much time on creating an intelligent arguement as filling your post with defensive sarcasm.

Fawriel,
Point taken about the silent protagonists. What I meant is that because you see central characters in a variety of scenarios, they will often be more developed, because you see then in situations where different attitudes are required of them, but I suppose the Zelda games would be a good counter example (and RPGs, like I said). But if the character is a villain, you're only going to see them being evil. If they're a comedic character, you'll only see them being funny. Et cetera (sp?). But you're right, it can be a rather one-dimensional industry in general.

All in all, I wasn't saying I don't like side-characters or that the ones that are in Smash should be removed (as a rule). Just saying that it's kind of absurd to have a bunch of side characters in the absence of more developed central characters. Essentially it boils a lot down to something I haven't touched upon; variety. But that is a rant for another day, and perhaps I should just go ahead and let this one go for now.


On a more recently discussed note (sorry everyone, I told you how bad I am at letting things go sometimes ), I'm surprised that we are only just now starting to broach (sp?) the topic of footstool jumps. I guess I assumed the purpose of the mechanic was to provide a way to do Meteor Smashes in midair like what P3L!C@N (darn, that's a beast to try and spell quickly), but I hadn't really thought about how it would work. Also, Devastlian, could you elaborate on what you mean? Maybe it's just the way you said it, but I didn't quite catch your meaning.

 

[AS Juggernaut]

at r4t:Well, I've got to say that you're more talking about well developed characters rather than just being a character. But i was more arguing that point because you seem to be somewhat condecending and that kind of annoyed me. Many main characters dont show much of their personalities either. Mario, you dont really see much personality from him and the same can go for Link and many other main characters. But many people love them anyways because their games are great.

You are right that a lot of side characters are hollow shells, but some are developed as well as some main characters. I am just saying that side characters aren't not important and CAN add something to smash bros.

And from what you were saying before sounded more like they hardly take their fans opinions in consideration, whereas thats not true as the fans opinions are a factor in a game. In fact, I don't thing a Tingle game would have been made unless the fans absolutely loved him in Japan, but they do hence he got a game. And I didn't just restate what you said. I said that games do have themes for the FANS. Yes, everything is produced to make money but games do have themes to try to appeal to the fans otherwise those fans wouldnt buy those games. And again, smash's theme is the ultimate nintendo showdown where you can play your favorite character (of course to an extant of whose included).

I really wasnt going to respond, but I felt somewhat insulted after reading your reply so I decided I would anyways, and hopefully we can stop arguing but I think I'm entitled to get carried away with things as much as you are so if you continue this I will too no matter how unintelligent I might come off because I've now come to the conclusion that I don't like you.

 

[mastersmash]

I thought they said all current characters would return?

no i wouldn't think so, lol...and also yoshi is confirmed from the official smashbros dojo last time i looked, and btw TOM, is that ur REAL wii number? 0000-0000-0000-9001?

 

[The rAt]

Not that I think this will go very far in influencing your opinnion of me, ASJ, but I wasn't intending to say that you or the position you hold is unintelligent. However, in the midst of what I percieved as a simple disagreement, you suddenly tossed in what I percieved to be a high degree of sarcasm and condescending (see "Wow, a character was the deciding point for whether he should get the game, go figure", ect.), an approach which I genuinely thought weakened your arguement and made you sound defensive. Like I said, every once in awhile I get stuck on a concept or an idea or a trend which really annoys me, and I don't respond well to what I percieve as someone trying to make me look stupid or talk down to me. Such is one of the downfalls of being a passionate, strongwilled individual. Anyhow, I didn't mean any personal offense to you (actually, believe it or not I heavily edited the post before I [posted?] it to try and reword content which I thought would be percieved as mean-spirited or a personal attack). Like I said, this probably doesn't change your opinion, but I felt the need to clarify my intent. Take it as you will.

mastersmash, I must say it took me about twenty minutes to figure out where that post you were responding to was from Just a thought, but you might have more luck in sparking discussion if you start with content on the more recent pages, rather than the first one. In any case, welcome to the Smashboards.

I was going to say something more on topic, but it would have sounded contrived, and ****it I've been working my *** off trying to think of things that haven't been discussed and I keep coming up with nothing. I promise my next post will be filled with insight regarding... something.

Oh, and I still think we're gonna see CF soon

 

[RAWR its Luigi]

yoshi is gonna kick *** in brawl, his up b helps him get up onto the stage

YAY..

 

[Sensai]

I've recently started playing Yoshi in Melee...he's a fun character. Weird. And I always trick myself into situations where I'm hit off the level without an Up B.

Bleh.

 

[RAWR its Luigi]

haha yeah yoshi my b a low tier but in the right hands hes a kick *** machine
eggs stun u alot in air preventing u from much and that tail dont get me started haha
its annoying and i hate losing to my friends yoshi thing is he mains yoshi and only 1 stocks me so its ok

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I like playing Yoshi too. He's not really one of my favorite mains, and he's nowhere near being on my best list, but I like to screw around with him and I usually win (about .600). I won't mind Yoshi's "new look" if he still plays the same. Also, his dimensions should be the same (reach, hitboxes, and character size). If they totally revamped him to be a different character with the same moves, I won't like that one bit and I might have to cry.

 

[The rAt]

Unfortunately (well, fortunately for some people, I guess), if Melee is any indication we may have to expect that kind of revision for most of the characters. Then again, Melee may not be a very good indication, as there were some fairly dramatic changes, so perhaps not. In any case, I'm hoping that means they'll restore Pikachu and Kirby to their former glory.

I have to say, Yoshi is a great character to really tick people off with (all in fun, of course). Granted, it rarely actually works, but there is nothing more satisfying than crapping someone over the edge as an egg and then taunting as they fall to their doom. Okay, nothing besides playing as Kirby and going kamikazee.

Of course in the case of the former, I usually run into the same problem as Sensai. I always go down tossing an egg, though.

 

[Dynamism]

I think a true Yoshi player can dominate a battle and the only way they lose is because of lack of up B. It's like an akilles heal and everyone has one. Aside from that, Yoshi doesn't have many weaknesses. This up B might make him even with the very top tier chars or they may even have to tone him down a little. Then again, maybe this up B gives as much disstance as Marios Forward B. LOL

The Rat, C.Falcon will be after one more Veteran. Possibly Ness or IC's, probably Ness

 

[mastersmash]

ye ok, the rAt lol, nice name. and thnx for the welcome, but i was just RLLY curious how the heck he got all the first three sets of numbers in his wii code zero's O.o lol is that even possible? and i think i did post here somewhere i'm not positive tho...back on topic: i dont use yoshi much but my friend does and he'll be happy w/ that up b -_- he's rlly good w/ yoshi as well

 

[-PM-]

the lack of up b is worth it i think i think yoshi just flows perfectly.. but breaking him is a good thing too =D

 

[Fawriel]

For the record, rAt, I like you. You're my favourite person to disagree with.

Though for some reason, I can't come up with a counterargument for your point because I'm having trouble understanding what exactly you want to say... and don't really feel like bothering to research that.
But one interesting thing to note is that, for all good villains to appear in Brawl, I can give you a pretty detailed analysis of the type of villain they are... even evil is not just evil. Or rather, especially evil.

Then again, maybe this up B gives as much disstance as Marios Forward B. LOL

I actually expect that. I don't think it's really a third jump, but a Cape-like little lift to use before ( or after ) using the second jump, to stop tumbling and gain a bit more distance.

 

[Dynamism]

yup exactly.

 

[starboardman]

knuckle joe

NEVER HEARD OF KNUCKLE JOE?!!?

Seriously, GTFO outta this thread, right this minute. Ye GAWDS where are my fellow Kirby supporters?!

LOL
I played Kirby's Dream Course (and that was a great game!) but that's about it really.......... SORRY!

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Why would they make DK's FS a stationary attack if his stage scrolls?
That makes about as much sense as giving Ness' stage tight spaces to fall through when Ness needs room for his recovery.

 

[roy_owns]

So, DK's Final Smash.... I hope we get Luigi this week

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I don't know if we'll get Luigi yet. He's definitely coming back, but I just see Captain Falcon or Peach showing up before he does. He's been a secret character so far in every game and I don't think they'll change it up just yet.

 

[roy_owns]

True, Everyone that was a default in N64 are confirmed now... Maybe Meta?

 

[-Wolfy-]

I'm hoping for Falcon pretty soon. I just switched to Falcon as my main and I've been pretty purist in local smahsfests and tournies, and I don't know what I would do without him! XD I don't see Luigi going anywhere. He's the lovable klutz.

 

[twilight_hero]

Why would they make DK's FS a stationary attack if his stage scrolls?
That makes about as much sense as giving Ness' stage tight spaces to fall through when Ness needs room for his recovery.

Yeah, Ness couldn't recover on Fourside with his crap up-B. As for DK's FS, maybe the stage stops scrolling? Because, can you imagine if he was pushed off the stage by "a tree that blows" while doing it? It seems likely to me that any major stage interaction stops for FSes. I mean, it's not assured, but look...

MARIO FINALE
seen on: Battlefield, Lylat Cruise
stage interaction? no (Battlefield), possible (Lylat Cruise)
during FS? not onscreen

TRIFORCE SLASH
seen on: Castle
stage interaction? possible
during FS? not onscreen

VOLT TACKLE
seen on: Yoshi's Island
stage interaction? MINOR platform tilting
during FS? YES. However, the interaction is minor.

ZERO LASER
seen on: Castle, unknown stage in first trailer
stage interaction? possible
during FS? not onscreen

GIGA BOWSER TRANFORMATION
seen on: Battlefield, Yoshi's Island, Delfino Plaza, Skyworld, Bridge of Eldin
stage interaction? In order: no; MINOR platform tilting; YES; YES; YES
during FS? In order: no; YES, but the interaction is minor; not onscreen; not onscreen; not onscreen

KONGA BEAT
seen on: Skyworld
stage interaction? YES
during FS? not onscreen

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

^^^^
I really have no idea what you mean. What interactions were there onscreen? How did they interact with the FSing characters?

 

[Masque]

Why would they make DK's FS a stationary attack if his stage scrolls?
That makes about as much sense as giving Ness' stage tight spaces to fall through when Ness needs room for his recovery.

It doesn't make sense, but maybe that drawback is balanced out with an insane damage potential. I know exactly what you mean, though, because the same thoughts went through my head.

So, DK's Final Smash.... I hope we get Luigi this week

Don't get your hopes up. Luigi has been a secret character in the first two games, so it seems to be a sort of tradition, an in-joke almost. I suspect that this week will go to Peach (hopefully!) or CF.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

^^^^
My thoughts exactly. Peach or Captain Falcon this week. The only other option would be Marth or Ness, and I think they're holding Ness for speculation of him being replaced by Lucas (which he still might be) and Marth will be one of the "secret character in the last game but a starter in this game" characters so I don't think they'll pop him out just yet.

 

[Masque]

^^^^
My thoughts exactly. Peach or Captain Falcon this week. The only other option would be Marth or Ness, and I think they're holding Ness for speculation of him being replaced by Lucas (which he still might be) and Marth will be one of the "secret character in the last game but a starter in this game" characters so I don't think they'll pop him out just yet.

Is it possible for two people to share a brain? Because I think we do.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

^^^^

Spoiler

<3 We must be soulmates! <3... Ummm!... I mean...

...maybe!?

 

[Chief Mendez]

Why would they make DK's FS a stationary attack if his stage scrolls?

Because you can play as DK in stages that don't scroll.

It might stop the scrolling, or (more likely) the scrolling won't be so fast as to endanger the DK player in question.

In the actual game (Jungle Beat), the only "scrolling" in Rumble Falls occurs inside of a bubble, and it's very, very slow. It certainly won't be as fast as Icicle Mountain. Probably more along the lines of Rainbow Cruise.

P.S. Rumble Falls is the best update ever.