[Competitive Discussion] Let's learn together

[Myran]

Unless someone is super heavy they should never be hit by 4 down tilts, and even then I don't think that should work. As for follow ups it varies. I like dtilt -> fsmash, but more stuff works.

 

[Legend28469]

Actually I won't lie. 4 D-Tilts do work, but I believe is "escapable"

 

[outfoxd]

Hey guys, I just started playing Olimar again a couple days ago after playing him in Brawl for a couple weeks.

Just wanted to chime in on something that randomly happened, wanted to see if it's confirmed or just something I misconstrued.

Playing a Megaman and he popped a Crash Bomber at me as I threw a Pikmin. I think what ended up happening is the Pikmin got stuck, and while it was hooked onto and slapping Megaman it blew up on him. Is this possible or was I seeing things? If yes, it'd be fun to do it to Megamans a lot more.

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

I was wondering the on how the application of perfect pivoting has on effect on olimar. Is there a big difference and makes olimar better? I havent tested it out myself but was wondering how useful it was seeing as sliding and his tilts arent that bad and it seems it might help improve his metagame

 

[Myran]

I was wondering the on how the application of perfect pivoting has on effect on olimar. Is there a big difference and makes olimar better? I havent tested it out myself but was wondering how useful it was seeing as sliding and his tilts arent that bad and it seems it might help improve his metagame

I just do normal pivot attacks. I have yet to find a use for it, although I haven't tested it to much.

 

[Angbad]

I was wondering the on how the application of perfect pivoting has on effect on olimar. Is there a big difference and makes olimar better? I havent tested it out myself but was wondering how useful it was seeing as sliding and his tilts arent that bad and it seems it might help improve his metagame

Hey man. I've been using it with forward smash and down smash. It can be used to better space your forward smashes so that hitting an opponents shield will not result in them getting an easy punish on you by perfect pivoting away from them if you're close enough. But one of the best ways to use Perfect Pivoting is Out of Shield to get in position to punish a hit on your shield that they spaced well. This goes for all characters, but isn't really as useful on Olimar because of his already huge range and speed on F-Smash. A lot of times you can just throw out an f-smash.

 

[Ticker]

I could see a retreating perfect pivot into d-tilt, and a advancing pivot into f-tilt, and maybe u-tilt if it hits behind you. And of course foward and down smash.

 

[Boomuki]

Did you see how Dabuz counterpicked Olimar to defeat ADHD's Diddy after his Rosalina got destroyed? It was at Collision 11 at Clashtournaments stream last weekend I think. Pretty interesting.

 

[StripedNinja]

I'd also like to point out Rich Brown's return to Olimar as his main character. People are starting to realize his potential.

 

[moofpi]

I haven't see Rich Brown's Olimar but I've been meaning to. Dabuz got my respect for bringing the hype. I was watching that tournament and was not on the edge of my seat for this Diddy v Rosalina grand finals...and then Olimar tagged in and the chat blew up. The hype was palpable. Olimar didn't win I think, but he almost did and certainly put on a show. I respect Dabuz for helping bring Pikmen into the spotlight when everyone else just said "lol worst character."

Been playing Alph since 1.03, and it feels good man

 

[Boomuki]

His match against ADHD wasn't grand finals, but he did indeed win with Olimar against ADHD, he lost against Nakat i think.

 

[StripedNinja]

@ Myran Hey, saw you playing on Clash Tournaments. You're making Oli look good. Also very happy to see Dabuz going back to Olimar, although I think you weren't super cheery about it when you had to fight him. I think you could've beat him, you just seemed to struggle with the ditto, which I think any Olimar player could understand..

 

[Myran]

@ Myran Hey, saw you playing on Clash Tournaments. You're making Oli look good. Also very happy to see Dabuz going back to Olimar, although I think you weren't super cheery about it when you had to fight him. I think you could've beat him, you just seemed to struggle with the ditto, which I think any Olimar player could understand..

You pretty much hit the head on the nail lol. I figured he would go Olimar against me due to talking to him earlier in the day. We had done it before, but he usually won more. I don't really like the ditto, but I learned a couple things to look out for after that set. I also think I could have played better against ANTi's Falcon, but he has a knack for getting good comebacks on me.

 

[StripedNinja]

You pretty much hit the head on the nail lol. I figured he would go Olimar against me due to talking to him earlier in the day. We had done it before, but he usually one more. I don't really like the ditto, but I learned a couple things to look out for after that set. I also think I could have played better against ANTi's Falcon, but he has a knack for getting good comebacks on me.

Yeah, ANTI pulled some sneaky stuff. Still a solid performance on your part though, glad I could see you play.

 

[fromundaman]

So this was probably already found, but I happened to do this while randomly using Oli today and figured I'd mention it just in case:

Utilt goes over some ledge attacks. This seems really good considering Utilt stays out long enough to beat ledge jumps and neutral ledge getups, essentially covering 3 options with one move against some characters.

 

[Angbad]

So this was probably already found, but I happened to do this while randomly using Oli today and figured I'd mention it just in case:

Utilt goes over some ledge attacks. This seems really good considering Utilt stays out long enough to beat ledge jumps and neutral ledge getups, essentially covering 3 options with one move against some characters.

Hmm so you'd have to time it at exactly the second they input get up attack?

 

[fromundaman]

Hmm so you'd have to time it at exactly the second they input get up attack?

I guess? I don't actually play Olimar and had this happen when I was picking random against Baddies. It would probably need to be tested, but I know it seems possible, and thanks to the low cooldown on Utilt, I was actually able to punish the getup attack after I landed (I think this happened against Villager, but I don't remember).

 

[Jay-kun]

Anyone know a high % dmg combo that you can whip out at the opponent from 0%?

 

[Angbad]

Anyone know a high % dmg combo that you can whip out at the opponent from 0%?

Down throw to 3 D-Tilts to jab jab to regrab down throw fair on Falcon lol.

But bread and butter is downthrow to fair/nair against all characters.

 

[StripedNinja]

Anyone know a high % dmg combo that you can whip out at the opponent from 0%?

I like to go DThrow, jump to Fair, land with Nair to Utilt, then double up air and finish it off with a winged Pikmin back air if I can.

 

[C0rvus]

So Dabuz says he uses Olimar for the Diddy matchup over Rosalina. I knew Rosa has a bad time against Diddy but could Olimar at least go even against Diddy? Just some food for thought.

 

[Myran]

So Dabuz says he uses Olimar for the Diddy matchup over Rosalina. I knew Rosa has a bad time against Diddy but could Olimar at least go even against Diddy? Just some food for thought.

He might go even, but I've heard to many people try to say it's in Olimar's favor. I'm kinda tired and don't really wanna explain it again, but there isn't really any advantage Olimar has over him. There are a couple ways you can mess up his banana, but that's about it.

 

[Angbad]

He might go even, but I've heard to many people try to say it's in Olimar's favor. I'm kinda tired and don't really wanna explain it again, but there isn't really any advantage Olimar has over him. There are a couple ways you can mess up his banana, but that's about it.

And once a Diddy knows how pikmin interact with his banana it's hard to get away with stuff.

 

[Boomuki]

It's just that most people don't know the vs Olimar matchups, because he is such an uncommon character to play against. Once people learn how to play against him, I think he won't have many matchups in his favour.

 

[extremecoopster]

I'll get around to writing my actual thoughts on how he needs to be played and all that at some point. For now I'll say this. If you want to win bait your opponent and punish. Rinse and repeat. You should never be approaching.

The issue with that is the fact they may get ahold of your idea, even the most cautios player will try to shake off two that are on them from what I learned. Not saying I am an aggressive Olimar.(Cuz that would be stupid)

 

[Myran]

The issue with that is the fact they may get ahold of your idea, even the most cautios player will try to shake off two that are on them from what I learned.

True, but that is when an opening can present itself. If they want to use a move to knock the Pikmin off it can allow you to move in for a grab or something else. Olimar thrives in the mid range game, he has such strong spacing tools.

 

[koken]

This are things about my research. I will be updating this post whenever I can.

• May or not be with Olimar at 0%.
• May or not be charged, half-charged or fully-charged.
• Different stages considered.
• The numbers aren't exact.
• This data need to be proven and tested.

2015 01 15 15:31 Edit: Added the images of characters.
2015 01 15 16:16 Edite: Added videos as example.

Spoiler: Smashes

Spoiler: Up Smash

|Red|Yellow|Blue|White|Purple
Zero Suit Samus|||||96
Kirby| 103 - 110
Sheik||| 99 || 79
Ness||||| 80 - 99
Link| 104
Mario||||| 65 (Half Charge)
Palutena|| 125
Pit Sombrio||||| 87
Sonic||||| 127
Samus||||| 129

Spoiler: Front Smash

|Red|Yellow|Blue|White|Purple
Zero Suit Samus| 93 ||130||
Sheik| 95 |||79
Shulk|||125||85 - 101
Meta Knight|||93
Yoshi| 96 (Half Charge) | 99 - 122 (Rage) | 129
Mario|| 76 (Full Charge) - 126 | 102
Ness|| 101
Diddy Kong| 142 | 109 (Rage) - 114 - 122 | 105 || 107 (Rage)
Luigi| 108 - 113 | 118 (Rage) | 144 (Half Charge)
Little Mac||| 76 (Full Charge)
Sheik||||| 114 (Rage)
Bowser Jr.| 116
Marth| 79 | 136 | 131 || 101
Toon Link||| 95 (Rage)
Link|||| 137
Sonic| 78 | 96 ||| 86 - 119
Greninja||| 157
Olimar| 77 (Half Charge) |||| 78 (Full Charge)
Peach||||| 103 (Full Charge)
Pikachu| 98 (Rage)
Fox| 104 (Half Charge)
Lucina||| 86 (Half Charge)
Capitan Falcon|| 108 (Half Charge)

Spoiler: Down Smash

|Red|Yellow|Blue|White|Purple
Zero Suit Samus||| 90 (Full Charge) || 114
Meta Knight|||||111
Yoshi| 122 - 135|| 178
Diddy Kong| 113 (Half Charge) |||| 149
Ness| 120 | 148 | 99
Luigi| 107 (Rage)
Sheik| 98
Wario|| 176
Mario||||| 153
Little Mac| 130
Greninja|| 143
Olimar||||| 96

Spoiler: Aerials

Spoiler: Back Air

|Red|Yellow|Blue|White|Purple
Zero Suit Samus|||||100
Wario||||| 122
Ness||||| 95

Spoiler: Up Air

|Red|Yellow|Blue|White|Purple
Yoshi|||||136
Ness||| 158
Mario| 134 (Rage)
Link||||| 120

Spoiler: Front Air

|Red|Yellow|Blue|White|Purple
Yoshi|175
Palutena| 177

 

[Myran]

Some of your data seems to be inconsistent. For example in the forward smash section you have blue and yellow killing at different percents. This should be the same, because they have the same amount of knockback. When testing kill %s for attacks you need to make sure your attack is consistent every time it's done. This means hitting the same sweet spot consistently and either not charging it different amounts or at all. Also all testing should be done on one stage to start then you can branch off to more to see the different effect of blastzone sizes.

 

[koken]

Some of your data seems to be inconsistent. For example in the forward smash section you have blue and yellow killing at different percents. This should be the same, because they have the same amount of knockback. When testing kill %s for attacks you need to make sure your attack is consistent every time it's done. This means hitting the same sweet spot consistently and either not charging it different amounts or at all. Also all testing should be done on one stage to start then you can branch off to more to see the different effect of blastzone sizes.

For the sake of the knowledge, let's be positive about someone is going to tear down this data or it's going to confirm or fix it.
I still think having this poorly, inconsistent and shameful data, is better than nothing.
But if everyone believe this is %&/" , I stop right now .

 

[Myran]

For the sake of the knowledge, let's be positive about someone is going to tear down this data or it's going to confirm or fix it.
I still think having this poorly, inconsistent and shameful data, is better than nothing.
But if everyone believe this is %&/" , I stop right now .

Well I'm glad you're trying to help. I just don't know how helpful it will be to players if they have inconsistent data.

 

[koken]

Well I'm glad you're trying to help. I just don't know how helpful it will be to players if they have inconsistent data.

In the way that someone can refuse or confirm the info. I'm not just throwing numbers that I want it to be, I added some videos in order to prove them.
It may not consider the move stale or the incremental reason of knockback-rage, whatever, but the info is published as it is and the video is there for your judgement.

 

[Myran]

In the way that someone can refuse or confirm the info. I'm not just throwing numbers that I want it to be, I added some videos in order to prove them.
It may not consider the move stale or the incremental reason of knockback-rage, whatever, but the info is published as it is and the video is there for your judgement.

For Glory isn't really the best way to test flat kill %s. Due to having a few different factors consisting of Rage, DI, and Freshness of the move. I'm sure over time someone will go in and really grind out the numbers for each characters and blastzones.

 

[koken]

For Glory isn't really the best way to test flat kill %s. Due to having a few different factors consisting of Rage, DI, and Freshness of the move. I'm sure over time someone will go in and really grind out the numbers for each characters and blastzones.

So, in other words, would be better to stop right here and wait for someone to get the info? I don't have any problem but I would like to know if this is nonsense.

 

[Myran]

So, in other words, would be better to stop right here and wait for someone to get the info? I don't have any problem but I would like to know if this is nonsense.

That may be best. I watched a clip from your video for the upsmash kill, but you were at 150% while the opponent died at a lower percent. There are a lot of factors that can happen in For Glory so for that method of testing I don't think it will be to helpful.

The fact that your willing to help is nice though. This could mean if someone else looks to test this in the future you two could collaborate to find accurate data.

 

[koken]

That may be best. I watched a clip from your video for the upsmash kill, but you were at 150% while the opponent died at a lower percent. There are a lot of factors that can happen in For Glory so for that method of testing I don't think it will be to helpful.

The fact that your willing to help is nice though. This could mean if someone else looks to test this in the future you to could collaborate two find accurate data.

Well, thanks alot for your honesty. I will be waiting then.

 

[StripedNinja]

For the record, while I don't know if it's in his FAVOR, I really do feel like Oli will at least be a capable pick against Diddy

 

[WarioWaft]

For the record, while I don't know if it's in his FAVOR, I really do feel like Oli will at least be a capable pick against Diddy

Captain is the Anti-Diddy.

Whenever people use a forward-B, throwing a Pikmin at him just kind of neutralizes him. And if Diddy tries to run and grab, just throw a Pikmin in his face and it stops his momentum.

 

[moofpi]

That may be best. I watched a clip from your video for the upsmash kill, but you were at 150% while the opponent died at a lower percent. There are a lot of factors that can happen in For Glory so for that method of testing I don't think it will be to helpful.

The fact that your willing to help is nice though. This could mean if someone else looks to test this in the future you two could collaborate to find accurate data.

Hey man I just saw your Winner Finals against Peach, you played really good man the hype was real.

 

[Myran]

Hey man I just saw your Winner Finals against Peach, you played really good man the hype was real.

Thanks! I'm not really content with my 5th place performance, but I know my mistakes and will be ready for Apex.

 

[Angbad]

Thanks! I'm not really content with my 5th place performance, but I know my mistakes and will be ready for Apex.

I told you Peach was a hard af mu lol. I lost to a Diddy I double two stocked last weekend. Would have been top 5 at Final Battle for sure (252 entrants). I choked hard on ClashTournaments stream because I hadn't played in 3-4 hours lol. So sad. But I'm not too bummed. Terribly run tournament to the point where I was so not ready to play my matches. Got punished for being in winners. Took games off of Mr ConCon and 0 in friendlies.

Lost to Fallin in Loser's which was depressing. I'm Hip and Rich Brown did great though! 9th and 17th respectively.