[Competitive Discussion] Let's learn together

[Angbad]

Pretty much just mash Up-B when you're getting multijabbed or something. Also the Pikmin are considered out of your line when you carry them, and that's why they can be hit.

But this better than just jumping ?

 

[Myran]

But this better than just jumping ?

Well imagine if you try to jump out of a rabid jab. Another hit of the jab could snipe your jump right as it starts. There is a lot of utility for Up-B aside from standard recovery.

 

[Angbad]

Well imagine if you try to jump out of a rabid jab. Another hit of the jab could snipe your jump right as it starts. There is a lot of utility for Up-B aside from standard recovery.

Seems kind of risky. Might try it if my jump gets sniped.

 

[Myran]

Seems kind of risky. Might try it if my jump gets sniped.

It's a lot better in practice. When one of my more recent videos from the Versus monthly get's uploaded you'll see what I mean.

 

[Beanie!]

I'd also like to point out that you can use aerials outta your Up-B. Meaning if you get out of jabs you can possibly punish with an fair, nair, or somethin'. Not too sure on the practicality of it but hey, it's there.

 

[Angbad]

have a grab on Sheik at 0%?

With anything other than blue...

Down Throw->Down Tilt->Jab->Jab->Re-Grab-> Down Throw-> Forward Air

Thank you RB for telling me

 

[Myran]

What do you guys think of coming together as a group and breaking down a lot of the aspects of Olimar's play to compile them into a list of the best people for each? For instance you could have categories like Pikmin Management, Defensive play, Aggressive play, Landing when juggled (Bad name lol), and possibly more. Then once we have decided which Olimar mains have the best of each we could have videos linking to matches that really show that specific ability. I think it could be a good way to help Olimar players find a specific skill they're wanting to hone, but don't always know where to look.

Gonna tag @RichBrown and @#HBC | Bunzy because I don't know how much they actively check here, but they have valuable information I'm sure.

 

[Kon]

Hey guys. I just wanted to ask something: I'm testing around a bit and there's one question coming to my mind. Are the yellow pikmins actually the best ones for aerials? I mean they seem to have the best range and the hitstun seems to be a thing too. I'm looking for good tools against aerial fighters such as Peach and Yoshi beside throwing purple pikmin at them.

I guess u have already tested this stuff a lot more, so perhaps u can help me out.

 

[Myran]

Hey guys. I just wanted to ask something: I'm testing around a bit and there's one question coming to my mind. Are the yellow pikmins actually the best ones for aerials? I mean they seem to have the best range and the hitstun seems to be a thing too. I'm looking for good tools against aerial fighters such as Peach and Yoshi beside throwing purple pikmin at them.

I guess u have already tested this stuff a lot more, so perhaps u can help me out.

I don't know the exact range or any of that since I have really tested, but yes yellow Pikmin have more range and hitstun compared to other colors. It makes spacing them right out of someone's range much easier. Also just love purples man, they solve like all your problems.

 

[RBreadsticks]

Hey yall just picked up Olimar today and he's really fun! So I want to learn him but I've got some questions.

What kill set ups should I be going for? So far all I've got figured out is purples are deadly so a purple f smash or d smash are the only kill options I really felt comfortable with. I know that blue grabs can cause kos with up throw but I have no idea at what percent. I couldn't figuere out the optimal percents to use red blue and yellows as smashes they only seemed to kill at upwards of 125% but their range is so useful.

As far as aerials go I think I only managed a bair purple kill. What are the percents I should be looking for from fair bair and uair? Also is his spike worth going for? I'm used to ROBS spike which has a fairly large hitbox but it looks like Olimars dair is fairly small.

 

[StripedNinja]

I don't know the exact range or any of that since I have really tested, but yes yellow Pikmin have more range and hitstun compared to other colors. It makes spacing them right out of someone's range much easier. Also just love purples man, they solve like all your problems.

In the tips it says yellows have 1.25 the range of normal Pikmin

 

[Angbad]

Hey yall just picked up Olimar today and he's really fun! So I want to learn him but I've got some questions.

What kill set ups should I be going for? So far all I've got figured out is purples are deadly so a purple f smash or d smash are the only kill options I really felt comfortable with. I know that blue grabs can cause kos with up throw but I have no idea at what percent. I couldn't figuere out the optimal percents to use red blue and yellows as smashes they only seemed to kill at upwards of 125% but their range is so useful.

As far as aerials go I think I only managed a bair purple kill. What are the percents I should be looking for from fair bair and uair? Also is his spike worth going for? I'm used to ROBS spike which has a fairly large hitbox but it looks like Olimars dair is fairly small.

A lot of this starts to come with experience. General rules:

150+ should kill with blue up throw
Purple Fsmash at around 80
Purple Up Air/back air around 120
The closer a player is to olimar when it by fsmash the more knockback
Purple Upsmash kills around 80


Don't rely on purples completely, Reds kill very early. Pummel with a white grab always.

 

[Blue Banana]

Hey yall just picked up Olimar today and he's really fun! So I want to learn him but I've got some questions.

What kill set ups should I be going for? So far all I've got figured out is purples are deadly so a purple f smash or d smash are the only kill options I really felt comfortable with. I know that blue grabs can cause kos with up throw but I have no idea at what percent. I couldn't figuere out the optimal percents to use red blue and yellows as smashes they only seemed to kill at upwards of 125% but their range is so useful.

As far as aerials go I think I only managed a bair purple kill. What are the percents I should be looking for from fair bair and uair? Also is his spike worth going for? I'm used to ROBS spike which has a fairly large hitbox but it looks like Olimars dair is fairly small.

KOs are actually a problem Olimar has trouble with, as although he can rack up damage pretty quickly he often has to rely on observing the opponent's behavior to fish for the KO. You probably want to try to observe on how your opponent reacts to your movements while keeping yourself a bit unpredictable. Try to condition them into falling into their personal habits, so you can punish them with something like a running purple Usmash or dash grab into blue uthrow on a predicted roll.

As for percentages, here's a preliminary chart of percentages for Olimar's potential KO moves for 3 characters: Mario is the middleweight while Bowser and Rosalina are or near the extreme outliers of weights.
- Tested on Battlefield in Training mode, so no rage or fresh/stale multipliers involved in getting these percentages.
- Smashes are completely uncharged.
- I had a second controller on hand to test how DI affects these KO options. No effect on vertical KOs as far as I see.
- I grouped yellows/blues together because despite having a slight difference in knockback it doesn't affect the percentages too much.
- Setups for getting percentages:

• Fsmash, dsmash, ftilt: center of main platform, DI by holding horizontally against direction lauched
• Usmash, blue uthrow: main platform, DI by holding sideways away from Olimar
• Bair: center of side platform closer to boundary of stage, DI by holding horizontally against direction launched
• Uair: top platform, DI by holding sideways away from Olimar

- Where applicable, percentages listed in order of red/yellow or blue/purple.

Spoiler

Character|Fsmash|Usmash|Dsmash|Ftilt|blue Uthrow|Bair|Uair
Mario|114/125/97|108/117/93|139/151/138|169|162|142/154/124|135/144/119
Bowser|133/144/114|121/132/104|161/174/161|194|178|165/178/144|146?/156/128
Rosalina|101/112/86|93/102/79|125/136/124|152|141|126/138/111|114/123/99

Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to test out all 51 characters, so the full chart is still a WIP. If you're aiming to get the KO, I suggest trying to have a lineup of red/blue/purple to give you the most KO options as the opponent's damage gets larger over time while keeping fsmash's range that purples sacrifice.

As for dair, you can go for it if you know your opponent has to go low to recover. Yellow Pikmin have a slightly larger hitbox in all their attacks, especially aerials, so that may help getting the spike.

 

[Myran]

In the tips it says yellows have 1.25 the range of normal Pikmin

You're right. I didn't think of that even though I've seen it haha.

 

[Depth_]

Hello, Olimar mains. Recently, I've been doing frame data research and reading the large data dump on characters. There doesn't seem to be frame data on Olimar's pikmin related attacks. Could you guys help me out? The data for his smashes and aerials would be most appreciated.

 

[Blue Banana]

Hello, Olimar mains. Recently, I've been doing frame data research and reading the large data dump on characters. There doesn't seem to be frame data on Olimar's pikmin related attacks. Could you guys help me out? The data for his smashes and aerials would be most appreciated.

Are you talking about the data for

Spoiler

BEGIN pikmin_pikmin
**********
unknown substate 0x16
Frame 1- 4: 17.4% 30b/92g (KO@ 101%) 361° Fire
Frame 5-10: 12% 30b/92g (KO@ 152%) 361° Fire
Frame 11-19: 7.2% 30b/92g (KO@ 243%) 361° Fire
Max Damage: 17.4%
unknown substate 0x19
Frame 1- 1: 12% 50b/79g (KO@ 171%) 94° Fire
Frame 1- 4: 15.6% 50b/86g (KO@ 118%) 83° Fire
Frame 5-10: 13.2% 50b/82g (KO@ 170%) 60° Fire
Max Damage: 15.6%
unknown substate 0x1d
Frame 1- 3: 13.2%(+1) 30b/89g (KO@ 130%) 28° 0.2-Trip Fire
Frame 4- 8: 10.8%(+1) 22b/89g (KO@ 169%) 28° 0.2-Trip Fire
Max Damage: 13.2%
unknown substate 0x1e
Frame 6- 8: 10.2% 32b/82g (KO@ 199%) 361° Fire
Max Damage: 10.2%
unknown substate 0x1f
Frame 9-12: 12.96%(+1) 30b/90g (KO@ 144%) 40° Fire
Max Damage: 12.96%
unknown substate 0x20
Frame 7-14: 10.8% 50b/84g (KO@ 178%) 95° Fire
Max Damage: 10.8%
unknown substate 0x21
Frame 8- 8: 10.8% 10b/91g (KO@ 271%) 270° Fire Aerial-Target-Only
Frame 8-14: 10.8% 30b/91g (KO@ 190%) 50° Fire
Max Damage: 10.8%

This is taken from the Pastebin for the Smash 3DS 1.0.4 data.

These substates are the data for his smashes and aerials, but only for red Pikmin. However, the damage that reds deal is 1.2 times the damage of yellows/blues. Whites are 0.8 the damage of yellows/blues, and purples have a 1.4 multiplier.

I translated what the substates correlate to and put down the damage values in order of R/YB/W/P.

Spoiler

unknown substate 0x16 = Forward Smash
Frame 1- 4: 17.4/14.3//11.5/20.1
Frame 5-10: 12//10/8/14
Frame 11-19: 7.2/6/4.8/8.4
Max Damage: 17.4/14.3/11.5/20.1
unknown substate 0x19 = Up Smash
Frame 1- 1: 12/10/8/14
Frame 1- 4: 15.6/13/10.4/18.2
Frame 5-10: 13.2/11/8.8/15.4
Max Damage: 15.6/13/10.4/18.2
unknown substate 0x1d = Down Smash
Frame 1- 3: 13.2/11/8.8/15.4
Frame 4- 8: 10.8/9/7.2/12.6
Max Damage: 13.2/11/8.8/15.4
unknown substate 0x1e = Forward Air
Frame 6- 8: 10.2/8.5/6.8/11.9
Max Damage: 10.2/8.5/6.8/11.9
unknown substate 0x1f = Back Air
Frame 9-12: 12.96/10.8/8.64/15.12
Max Damage: 12.96/10.8/8.64/15.12
unknown substate 0x20 = Up Air
Frame 7-14: 10.8/9/7.2/12.6
Max Damage: 10.8/9/7.2/12.6
unknown substate 0x21 = Down Air
Frame 8- 8: 10.8/9/7.2/12.6 (probably the "spike" frame)
Frame 8-14: 10.8/9/7.2/12.6
Max Damage: 10.8/9/7.2/12.6

As far as how colors affect knockback, I don't know.

 

[koken]

KOs are actually a problem Olimar has trouble with, as although he can rack up damage pretty quickly he often has to rely on observing the opponent's behavior to fish for the KO. You probably want to try to observe on how your opponent reacts to your movements while keeping yourself a bit unpredictable. Try to condition them into falling into their personal habits, so you can punish them with something like a running purple Usmash or dash grab into blue uthrow on a predicted roll.

As for percentages, here's a preliminary chart of percentages for Olimar's potential KO moves for 3 characters: Mario is the middleweight while Bowser and Rosalina are or near the extreme outliers of weights.
- Tested on Battlefield in Training mode, so no rage or fresh/stale multipliers involved in getting these percentages.
- Smashes are completely uncharged.
- I had a second controller on hand to test how DI affects these KO options. No effect on vertical KOs as far as I see.
- I grouped yellows/blues together because despite having a slight difference in knockback it doesn't affect the percentages too much.
- Setups for getting percentages:

• Fsmash, dsmash, ftilt: center of main platform, DI by holding horizontally against direction lauched
• Usmash, blue uthrow: main platform, DI by holding sideways away from Olimar
• Bair: center of side platform closer to boundary of stage, DI by holding horizontally against direction launched
• Uair: top platform, DI by holding sideways away from Olimar

- Where applicable, percentages listed in order of red/yellow or blue/purple.

Spoiler

Character|Fsmash|Usmash|Dsmash|Ftilt|blue Uthrow|Bair|Uair
Mario|114/125/97|108/117/93|139/151/138|169|162|142/154/124|135/144/119
Bowser|133/144/114|121/132/104|161/174/161|194|178|165/178/144|146?/156/128
Rosalina|101/112/86|93/102/79|125/136/124|152|141|126/138/111|114/123/99

Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to test out all 51 characters, so the full chart is still a WIP. If you're aiming to get the KO, I suggest trying to have a lineup of red/blue/purple to give you the most KO options as the opponent's damage gets larger over time while keeping fsmash's range that purples sacrifice.

As for dair, you can go for it if you know your opponent has to go low to recover. Yellow Pikmin have a slightly larger hitbox in all their attacks, especially aerials, so that may help getting the spike.

This is the list with all the characters that you may prove me wrong or right.

 

[StripedNinja]

KOs are actually a problem Olimar has trouble with, as although he can rack up damage pretty quickly he often has to rely on observing the opponent's behavior to fish for the KO. You probably want to try to observe on how your opponent reacts to your movements while keeping yourself a bit unpredictable. Try to condition them into falling into their personal habits, so you can punish them with something like a running purple Usmash or dash grab into blue uthrow on a predicted roll.

As for percentages, here's a preliminary chart of percentages for Olimar's potential KO moves for 3 characters: Mario is the middleweight while Bowser and Rosalina are or near the extreme outliers of weights.
- Tested on Battlefield in Training mode, so no rage or fresh/stale multipliers involved in getting these percentages.
- Smashes are completely uncharged.
- I had a second controller on hand to test how DI affects these KO options. No effect on vertical KOs as far as I see.
- I grouped yellows/blues together because despite having a slight difference in knockback it doesn't affect the percentages too much.
- Setups for getting percentages:

• Fsmash, dsmash, ftilt: center of main platform, DI by holding horizontally against direction lauched
• Usmash, blue uthrow: main platform, DI by holding sideways away from Olimar
• Bair: center of side platform closer to boundary of stage, DI by holding horizontally against direction launched
• Uair: top platform, DI by holding sideways away from Olimar

- Where applicable, percentages listed in order of red/yellow or blue/purple.

Spoiler

Character|Fsmash|Usmash|Dsmash|Ftilt|blue Uthrow|Bair|Uair
Mario|114/125/97|108/117/93|139/151/138|169|162|142/154/124|135/144/119
Bowser|133/144/114|121/132/104|161/174/161|194|178|165/178/144|146?/156/128
Rosalina|101/112/86|93/102/79|125/136/124|152|141|126/138/111|114/123/99

Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to test out all 51 characters, so the full chart is still a WIP. If you're aiming to get the KO, I suggest trying to have a lineup of red/blue/purple to give you the most KO options as the opponent's damage gets larger over time while keeping fsmash's range that purples sacrifice.

As for dair, you can go for it if you know your opponent has to go low to recover. Yellow Pikmin have a slightly larger hitbox in all their attacks, especially aerials, so that may help getting the spike.

Also just to add, though maybe slightly harder to hit versus yellows, reds and purplespurples will spike the hardest

 

[extremecoopster]

I was brainstorming and came up with a list of special moves that automatically get blocked if a Pikmin is on them or any move that side-b kinda counters easily. I doubt this list is complete, it is off the top of my head. If I miss anything, please tell me. No custom specials are on this list, nor am I planning to. (Gosh, I know nearly all the 225-ish specials by heart, do I need to triple it?) Any of these special moves listed that use the character itself to attack will also get blocked if you throw it at them during the middle their attack. Keep that in mind. I may update this later.

Samus b
Samus side-b (Sometimes)
Lucario b
WFT b
Pikachu b (DESTROYS For Glory spammers, they hate it.)
Pikachu side-b
Ike side-b (This is amazing, even puts him in helpless for a Self Destruct if he is recovering. This can really work against Ikes who do not know this. Most hate to use Aether for recovery anyway)
Luigi side-b
Peach side-b
Pit side-b
Dark Pit side-b
Villager side-b. (Not on spawn, but if a Pikmin is on him while he walks past the Lloid Rocket it will explode.)
Charizard side-b (One of the most trolly ones. Defeats both recovery and KO options)
Jigglypuff b (I think this can end in with self destruct too if offstage, not sure though...)
Little Mac b (?)
Sonic b (not only does it not work while latched on, but the auto-aim will go for Pikmin too, use the cooldown time to punish with a Fair!)
Mega Man Fsmash (Thanks koken for concluding it actually blocks)
Notable counterable moves that I should mention, but do not block if latched on:
Palutena b (Auto-aiming to a Pikmin in front of her can take away almost her entire range game
Ness up-b (Throw a Pikmin at the PK Thunder! Although it does not instantly despawn if a Pikmin is on Ness at the time, throwing it at the ball itself will make it despawn, this stops both PK Thunder gimps and recoveries if it connects with your Pikmin.)
Bowser/Charizard b. Not anything to do with side-b Pikmin Hurl counters, but a Red PIkmin Fsmash goes through! Very unpredictable against other newcomers.
Villager down-b (If you ever fought a Villager online, most of them make a little tree to wall out projectiles while constantly using side-b to camp you out. Not against Olimar though. Pikmin actually go through! This includes side-b and smashes. I do not suggest a smash in tree chopping range... idiot... Throwing a Pikmin at the rocket to detonate it is pretty easy actually. And no, do not worry about him pocketing your Pikmin. You can pluck another right afterward, and the projectile itself is like Olimars custom special 3.
If you don't know what that is, it is pretty much like throwing a Purple Pikmin.)

 

[koken]

I was brainstorming and came up with a list of special moves that automatically get blocked if a Pikmin is on them or any move that side-b kinda counters easily. I doubt this list is complete, it is off the top of my head. If I miss anything, please tell me.

Samus b
Samus side-b (Sometimes)
Lucario b
WFT b
Pikachu b (DESTROYS For Glory spammers, they hate it.)
Pikachu side-b
Ike side-b (This is amazing, even puts him in helpless for a Self Destruct if he is recovering. This can really work against Ikes who do not know this. Most hate to use Aether for recovery anyway)
Luigi side-b
Peach side-b
Pit side-b
Charizard side-b (One of the most trolly ones. Defeats both recovery and KO options)
Jigglypuff b (I think this can end in with self destruct too, if offstage not sure though...)
Little Mac b (?)
Sonic b (not only does it not work while latched on, but the auto-aim will go for Pikmin too, use the cooldown time to punish with a Fair!)
Mega Man Fsmash(?)
Notable counterable moves that I should mention, but do not block if latched on:
Palutena b (Auto-aiming to a Pikmin in front of her can take away almost her entire range game
Ness up-b (Throw a Pikmin at the P

This is good information for newcomers.

Mega Man Fsmash it does get blocked.

 

[Myran]

After some testing Dabuz and I did last night we've come to the conclusion that all of his customs are bad. They all have negative drawbacks that take away to much compared to the standard moves. The only ones I haven't personally messed around with are his up special ones, but I'm already aware of why I don't like those.

 

[Blue Banana]

After some testing Dabuz and I did last night we've come to the conclusion that all of his customs are bad. They all have negative drawbacks that take away to much compared to the standard moves. The only ones I haven't personally messed around with are his up special ones, but I'm already aware of why I don't like those.

If you have time, I think it might be helpful to post your thoughts about how the drawbacks are too significant to give up over the defaults in this thread, since the deadline for this is about a little more than a week away.

 

[Myran]

I probably will later tonight or sometime soon. I mean some people will still use them regardless of the drawbacks. They just seem to have to much to find it useful for me. Let me break down why they're worse.

Both of his neutral B moves aren't able to be pluck canceled meaning you have to maintain in the animation leaving you exposed for a long period of time. Also both customs glitch you're dash grab making it so when you do it the Pikmin only reaches slightly in front of Olimar.

The sticky side B would be good, but the distance the Pikmin fly is half of the normal distance making Olimar have to go from a full stage camp game to a mid range. This might not sound so bad, but it makes it easier for the enemy to close the gap once you started a Pikmin throw.

The Tackle Pikmin throw has more cooldown on the actual animation meaning when you use it you're easier to punish/ can't throw Pikmin as fast. Secondly any Olimar player with solid Pikmin management should be able to filter Purples into their line with ease.

The down B custom Order tackle has an animation that is much longer. Granted it has 3-4 (Can't remember the exact number) more frames of super armor. The issue is that when whistling it is to arrange your Pikmin fast and do something else. This is bogging you down with a laggier animation. Plus from what I've heard the Pikmin don't always hit people on their way back when you whistle.

The Dizzy Whistle has no super armor. I don't know if it has a longer animation, but losing out on a progressively strong tool in Olimar's kit is bad. Whistle is going to be what will allow him to progress in a meta game where characters are only getting better at juggling. I highly recommend if people aren't doing it now to try and work Whistle into their game to help landings and open punishes in general.

I'll look at the Up B ones closely later, but from previous testing they didn't seem to have any reason to have them.

 

[Angbad]

I probably will later tonight or sometime soon. I mean some people will still use them regardless of the drawbacks. They just seem to have to much to find it useful for me. Let me break down why they're worse.

Both of his neutral B moves aren't able to be pluck canceled meaning you have to maintain in the animation leaving you exposed for a long period of time. Also both customs glitch you're dash grab making it so when you do it the Pikmin only reaches slightly in front of Olimar.

The sticky side B would be good, but the distance the Pikmin fly is half of the normal distance making Olimar have to go from a full stage camp game to a mid range. This might not sound so bad, but it makes it easier for the enemy to close the gap once you started a Pikmin throw.

The Tackle Pikmin throw has more cooldown on the actual animation meaning when you use it you're easier to punish/ can't throw Pikmin as fast. Secondly any Olimar player with solid Pikmin management should be able to filter Purples into their line with ease.

The down B custom Order tackle has an animation that is much longer. Granted it has 3-4 (Can't remember the exact number) more frames of super armor. The issue is that when whistling it is to arrange your Pikmin fast and do something else. This is bogging you down with a laggier animation. Plus from what I've heard the Pikmin don't always hit people on their way back when you whistle.

The Dizzy Whistle has no super armor. I don't know if it has a longer animation, but losing out on a progressively strong tool in Olimar's kit is bad. Whistle is going to be what will allow him to progress in a meta game where characters are only getting better at juggling. I highly recommend if people aren't doing it now to try and work Whistle into their game to help landings and open punishes in general.

I'll look at the Up B ones closely later, but from previous testing they didn't seem to have any reason to have them.

Dizzy whistle can be used as a cape to reflect enemy recoveries though

 

[Myran]

Dizzy whistle can be used as a cape to reflect enemy recoveries though

You're still losing out on a landing option. If they come from below you having super armor will be much better.

 

[StripedNinja]

Alright you guys, I just got back from a tournament and I was doing fine until I came across a villager with the tripping down B. As an Oli main this really sucks because as I found out it will actually get your Pikmin caught in an infinite tripping loop, and it can halt your forward smash. That on top of the normal problems with that custom made that match very very rough. Any ideas on how to deal with this particular custom?

 

[AncientBaby]

Alright you guys, I just got back from a tournament and I was doing fine until I came across a villager with the tripping down B. As an Oli main this really sucks because as I found out it will actually get your Pikmin caught in an infinite tripping loop, and it can halt your forward smash. That on top of the normal problems with that custom made that match very very rough. Any ideas on how to deal with this particular custom?

I haven't played against that custom, but I've heard that it and R.O.B.'s tripping gyro can give the Pikmin a really hard time. It sounds like whistling more might be helpful. Maybe we could make sure that the Pikmin are either in the middle of an attack or in our line for as much of the match as possible, because they can only trip while they're walking back to you, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[StripedNinja]

I haven't played against that custom, but I've heard that it and R.O.B.'s tripping gyro can give the Pikmin a really hard time. It sounds like whistling more might be helpful. Maybe we could make sure that the Pikmin are either in the middle of an attack or in our line for as much of the match as possible, because they can only trip while they're walking back to you, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, they won't trip mid throw, but like they can get caught in it if you try to fsmash over it, which is hard to avoid because the villager tends to just roll behind the sapling

 

[AncientBaby]

Well, they won't trip mid throw, but like they can get caught in it if you try to fsmash over it, which is hard to avoid because the villager tends to just roll behind the sapling

Ouch. So it trips while they're walking, fsmashing, and dsmashing (I'd assume). Does it trip a Pikmin while it's going for a grab?

 

[StripedNinja]

Ouch. So it trips while they're walking, fsmashing, and dsmashing (I'd assume). Does it trip a Pikmin while it's going for a grab?

I don't think so? But I don't think you can safely grab over it just because the trip radius is like way more than youd think

 

[AncientBaby]

I don't think so? But I don't think you can safely grab over it just because the trip radius is like way more than youd think

Huh. It sounds like it's just something that you'd have to wait out, I suppose. I believe I've heard that it doesn't last as long as the normal one, so that's good. Does the sapling have some sort of visual indicator to show that it's the tripping one, and not just the regular? Best I can think of until I find a villager player who uses this is to generally keep in mind where it is, avoid ground approaches if the villager is near it, and mostly to keep the Pikmin from walking (keep them in your line, latched onto the opponent, or just tossed if it's a purple as much as you can). Any other ideas would absolutely be great to note.

 

[StripedNinja]

Huh. It sounds like it's just something that you'd have to wait out, I suppose. I believe I've heard that it doesn't last as long as the normal one, so that's good. Does the sapling have some sort of visual indicator to show that it's the tripping one, and not just the regular? Best I can think of until I find a villager player who uses this is to generally keep in mind where it is, avoid ground approaches if the villager is near it, and mostly to keep the Pikmin from walking (keep them in your line, latched onto the opponent, or just tossed if it's a purple as much as you can). Any other ideas would absolutely be great to note.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I tried to do. I've been looking into it and apparently a lot of other people are complaining about this custom too, not just Oli mains, so I'll just have to wait to see how things play out and keep practicing against it. And yes, it flashes blue when it's the tripping sapling.

 

[PigglyJuff]

Hello everyone, villager main here, and planning to pick up olimar as a secondary. What are some possible little tips you could offer?

 

[AncientBaby]

Hello everyone, villager main here, and planning to pick up olimar as a secondary. What are some possible little tips you could offer?

I'd say the best place to start is Myran's guide.
After that, if you want some other general tech, Koken put together this quicklinks thread.
I think that should be enough to give you a general idea of what Olimar players tend to do. Good luck!

 

[Angbad]

Hello everyone, villager main here, and planning to pick up olimar as a secondary. What are some possible little tips you could offer?

Learn how he works and then study videos

 

[StripedNinja]

Hello everyone, villager main here, and planning to pick up olimar as a secondary. What are some possible little tips you could offer?

You're gonna need to learn the Pikmim of course, and learn how to handle them. Initially I would say focus on making sure you get into the habit of throwing whites, cause you don't wanna get stuck using them for physical attacks. And just like once you have that down progressively learn when to use what Pikmin one by one until it becomes second nature. That's what I did when I started out

 

[Blue Banana]

Hello everyone, villager main here, and planning to pick up olimar as a secondary. What are some possible little tips you could offer?

Manage your Pikmin. Know what each color is best at in common situations.
Pivot tilts, smashes, and grabs are good. Use them.
If you get juggled, remember that down B has super armor for about a tenth of a second. Practice the timing to give yourself an option other than airdodging.

 

[SoniCraft]

Huh. It sounds like it's just something that you'd have to wait out, I suppose. I believe I've heard that it doesn't last as long as the normal one, so that's good. Does the sapling have some sort of visual indicator to show that it's the tripping one, and not just the regular? Best I can think of until I find a villager player who uses this is to generally keep in mind where it is, avoid ground approaches if the villager is near it, and mostly to keep the Pikmin from walking (keep them in your line, latched onto the opponent, or just tossed if it's a purple as much as you can). Any other ideas would absolutely be great to note.

Hi Villager-Olimar co-main here! Timber counter( the tripping sapling) actually lasts longer than the standard timber sapling, as well as the tree. I've heard talks of this custom getting banned, which I would be severely disappointed by, but I do admit it can be kinda dumb sometimes.

 

[AncientBaby]

Hi Villager-Olimar co-main here! Timber counter( the tripping sapling) actually lasts longer than the standard timber sapling, as well as the tree. I've heard talks of this custom getting banned, which I would be severely disappointed by, but I do admit it can be kinda dumb sometimes.

Really? Well, that's pretty bad for us, I suppose. That'll make it even more important that we figure it out. Do you, since you play both characters, have any ideas for the Olimar end of this matchup aside from what StripedNinja and I already said?

 

[SoniCraft]

Really? Well, that's pretty bad for us, I suppose. That'll make it even more important that we figure it out. Do you, since you play both characters, have any ideas for the Olimar end of this matchup aside from what StripedNinja and I already said?

To be honest, I don't have much XD. Playing both characters doesn't mean I necessarily know how to fight either with the other. I know a Villager's main gameplan is to launch a lloid, and then mix it up from there, and there are several ways he can do this. As villager, I love it when people jump because then I can pelt them with my slingshot, or if they airdodge then punish with a nair or fair. When they shield the lloid is when I personally have the hardest time because I always jump over the lloid I launched, and because Villager doesn't have the best air movement, I kinda committed to that jump so I need to follow up somehow, and usually I do this with either a nair or a fair, neither of which are safe on shield. This leads to me getting punished hard.

What all this means for Olimar is that he probably wants to just wait on the ground and react to the lloid from there. If you shield the lloid and villager is coming in from above, you will most likely get a grab or down smash. Of course if the Villager reads your shield, then he can get a grab on you, which if free damage, but no follow up is guaranteed. Fighting Villager is really a big rock paper scissors game, and between Olimar and Villager, I imagine it'd just be a campfest to see who commits too hard and messes up first.

I'll let you guys in on a secret: Villager's recovery is NOT as amazing as we all once thought. Yes it may go farther than everybody else's, meaning he can go the deepest for gimps, but it has two major weaknesses.

1. It's not very fast.
2. It doesn't have hitbox, nor can Villager produce a hitbox at all from the up b.(unless customs are on, in which case the explosive balloons would be used)

This means that if Villager is recovering against an edgeguarder, the edgeguarder can run off and stuff it somehow for free, without risk of getting hit(unless customs are on, in which case exploding balloons would definitely hit you). For Olimar, I'd recommend a dair or bair.

Ok I guess I do have a few ideas on this MU lol. TL;DR Villager is a huge pain to fight, but once you get the hang of how his gameplan works, Olimar has the tools to deal with it. Mainly learning to deal with lloid properly based on how the Villager follows up. Olimar is no Falcon or Yoshi, so it won't be so easy, but if all else fails, you can camp too.