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Well, you can refer back to my point of Ganondorf's current design's cult following as one reason why they've been hesitant to make big changes to it. But it's also worth mentioning that he actually hasn't made an appearance in his own series in 17 years, which doesn't really help in creating fresh ideas.
It's not like multiple versions of one character are unheard of when we have two Marios, two Samuses and three Links. Multiple Ganons doesn't seem like much of a stretch to keep current and new fans happy.
To interrupt the Ganondorf discussion for a bit, a very stacked Coinbox happened yesterday (wifi tournament) and a lot of the top 16 are those you'd expect to see in an offline major.
To interrupt the Ganondorf discussion for a bit, a very stacked Coinbox happened yesterday and a lot of the top 16 are those you'd expect to see in an offline major.
The number one is pretty clearly acola atm. He's won 3 offline majors and didn't get worse then 7th with no bad losses (Sparg0 has a loss to VoiD and got 13th at Summit 6)
Also I don't think you realized that was a wifi tournament.
To be fair, it seemed that MkLeo was trying to experiment around with his characters. While he plays in online tournaments a lot, he doesn't really take them as seriously as offline events. That being said, Leo's #1 status, at least for this season, is extremely shaky at best.
Interestingly enough, his two set losses where to TimeGear (Min Min) and Candle (Olimar), characters that Leo doesn't have a good history with.
If we're talking Ganon fans in Smash specifically, the thing is it's kind of precisely because Ganondorf is so bad that he has such a following. It's hard to hate an underdog after all.
The identity they give Ganondorf in Smash isn't merely "super slow and super powerful", it's "the guy that can kill with practically ALL of his moves". Like, literally only his jab, Flame Choke and nair (and even that is still pretty dangerous offstage) don't kill at reasonable percentages. And I'm pretty sure a lot of little kids who don't know what combos are find just pushing buttons in the general direction of the enemy and watching them die very entertaining. I keep bringing up his All-Star Melee trophy all but admitting his design is not good in 1v1s ie competitive. It's not dev incompetence, it's dev apathy to the wishes of a very small percentage of a game's audience. Like it or not, Ganondorf in all these Smash years has built an identity of someone you play not to win, but to make a statement. Crowds and online players looking for ego boosts eat that up, and in Ultimate that kind of character is damn near one of a kind. Only Little Mac with his very dramatic air handicaps comes close.
Side note, it's extremely amusing to be speaking of the almost literal devil when we just got this:
Only time will tell how he fights, though I'm not sure how fans will react if he ends up becoming a more typical swordie. Not sure if he will ever be a fast mover though, all his other boss fights have him move just as slow as in Smash normally.
Last thing: Ganondorf's design has left him the uncontested king of Home-Run Contest, even after all these years and DLC. You may scoff but there's a life in this game outside of competitive.
Yeah I get that. But even with all the buffs I suggested he would still be bad. I just don't see why he has to be trash and the worst character by far. It's enough for him to be a low tier.
Yeah I get that. But even with all the buffs I suggested he would still be bad. I just don't see why he has to be trash and the worst character by far. It's enough for him to be a low tier.
Someone has to be, intentionally or otherwise. And I'd argue Ganondorf would actually lose a fair bit of popularity if he was just run-of-the-mill bad or mediocre, instead of entertainingly bad like he is now. And it's been a part of him for so long that I don't think fans would even appreciate it if the whole moveset was foisted on someone else like I heard so often suggested for Black Shadow the F-Zero villain.
They have their vision of identity when they make a character and the devs will stick to said vision adamantly, regardless of it's good competitively or not. So long as a good number of players find Ganon as he is fun for any reason, there's no reason to change him much or go anywhere.
Well, you can refer back to my point of Ganondorf's current design's cult following as one reason why they've been hesitant to make big changes to it. But it's also worth mentioning that he actually hasn't made an appearance in his own series in 17 years, which doesn't really help in creating fresh ideas.
It's not like multiple versions of one character are unheard of when we have two Marios, two Samuses and three Links. Multiple Ganons doesn't seem like much of a stretch to keep current and new fans happy.
Kagaribi 10 is a Premier event. It is in the same category as Genesis 6,8 and 9, EVO 2019, Smash Con 2019/2022, Frostbite 2020 and LSI. I think it's the most stacked Japanese event in Smash's lifetime as well.
Looking to be the biggest event of the season, @KAGARIBI_smash closes out Golden Week with a stacked international line up! This Premier event is happening on May 6th-7th. pic.twitter.com/3zjPGRZze9
I, for one, am excited to see a huge Japanese tournament with international talent. We already know Japan is the strongest region, and now we'll get to see how they stack up against international talent.
I, for one, am excited to see a huge Japanese tournament with international talent. We already know Japan is the strongest region, and now we'll get to see how they stack up against international talent.
I think there's a few NA players that I'm interested in their runs. Sparg0's had a very strong record on all the top Japanese players he's beaten since 2021 outside of ProtoBanham, who is not attending this event, and Shuton, who is even in sets with Sparg0 and Sparg0 3-0'd him last time they played. He even has a winning record over the two Smashmate Prodigies. He could flat out sweep this event unless he gets hit hard by jetlag or fights a hidden boss early, and is the most likely candidate for the first NA player to win a Japanese major in Ultimate.
Meanwhile, Riddles has the opposite problem. He has a horrid record on Japan's top talent (Only top Japanese player he has a win on is Gackt), so this could be a bigger underperformance for him then Genesis was. Dabuz should also be interesting because I feel like a lot of players who play weird characters struggle against Dabuz's Rosa, and that's a lot of players in Japan.
Then of course, there's how Japanese players who don't travel to NA do against international talent, such as Yoshidora, Hero, Yaura, Rizeasu, Shirayuki etc. Kagaribi 10 and Battle of BC 5 are quite possibly the most hyped up and biggest tournaments this year so far, I absolutely cannot wait.
Ganondorf is not Captain Falcon. If you think he is, that's Smash's fault and your own for not looking deeper. Like, yes, some people might be a bit upset if the moveset was moved or removed outright, but he's been a clone long enough. It's not like most people are buying Smash for Ganondorf being a clone. But, considering, as I pointed out, Sakurai has largely ignored appearances before, there's a decent chance that he will never get his own moveset so long as he's in charge. It's so weird that he does so much to make third parties faithful to their games, but then sticks Ganondorf as a clone when he shouldn't be anymore and insists on his more monstrous interpretation of Bowser.
Ganondorf is not Captain Falcon. If you think he is, that's Smash's fault and your own for not looking deeper. Like, yes, some people might be a bit upset if the moveset was moved or removed outright, but he's been a clone long enough. It's not like most people are buying Smash for Ganondorf being a clone. But, considering, as I pointed out, Sakurai has largely ignored appearances before, there's a decent chance that he will never get his own moveset so long as he's in charge. It's so weird that he does so much to make third parties faithful to their games, but then sticks Ganondorf as a clone when he shouldn't be anymore and insists on his more monstrous interpretation of Bowser.
Well, it's a good thing there's a boss version of Ganon that actually does pull from the boss attacks his forms have used across the series then, isn't it?
Look, this debate has been repeated ad nauseam, always ends with everyone in tears, never goes anywhere and this probably isn't even an appropriate place to be having it. Don't make me regret reminding people of the larger audience whose interests don't necessarily align with those on these boards.
Well, it's a good thing there's a boss version of Ganon that actually does pull from the boss attacks his forms have used across the series then, isn't it?
Look, this debate has been repeated ad nauseam, always ends with everyone in tears, never goes anywhere and this probably isn't even an appropriate place to be having it. Don't make me regret reminding people of the larger audience whose interests don't necessarily align with those on these boards.
A boss doesn't really make up for Ganondorf himself being stuck as a clone.
Also, not sure if the larger audience prefers to keep him that way. Zelda has a massive fanbase. Arguably larger than Smash itself. And that's also assuming the people who enjoy a nice Ganondorf scrap would be immensely offended if he were made more accurate to the source material. Like...I know the internet isn't great for determining general interest, but when do you ever find anyone who is like "I hope they keep Ganondorf a clone in the next game?"
I'm sorry. I know I made Ganondorf as an example in my initial post, but the point I was really trying to make is that Smash devs have not, and will never so long as they remember what makes Smash special as a series, care about character viability in any given mode or play level in their decision making. Only enough so that they don't make another Brawl Meta Knight that is miserable to play against for everyone.
They've known since Melee that characters like Fox are better at 1v1s than characters like Ganondorf. And they see no reason to address that when they don't see 1v1s as the main, let alone superior way to play, even after the concessions they made in Ultimate for it. To say nothing of the main goal of Ultimate at launch to bring back every single character once playable kind of precluding any massive rework of a veteran, since otherwise you're not really bringing them back, are you?
Just... next time you consider griping about balance in Smash, try to avoid questioning the dev's capabilities like you would in a live service game. You can't be incompetent at something you're not really trying to do.
I'm sorry. I know I made Ganondorf as an example in my initial post, but the point I was really trying to make is that Smash devs have not, and will never so long as they remember what makes Smash special as a series, care about character viability in any given mode or play level in their decision making. Only enough so that they don't make another Brawl Meta Knight that is miserable to play against for everyone.
They've known since Melee that characters like Fox are better at 1v1s than characters like Ganondorf. And they see no reason to address that when they don't see 1v1s as the main, let alone superior way to play, even after the concessions they made in Ultimate for it. To say nothing of the main goal of Ultimate at launch to bring back every single character once playable kind of precluding any massive rework of a veteran, since otherwise you're not really bringing them back, are you?
Just... next time you consider griping about balance in Smash, try to avoid questioning the dev's capabilities like you would in a live service game. You can't be incompetent at something you're not really trying to do.
I get what you're saying. I also sympathize with some pros because their unfortunate mains are characters always ending up at the bottom of the barrel. It's not just Dorf but after game after game of getting shafted it IS understandably frustrating. And I don't think the devs are completely unwilling to balance the game as we've gotten several patches but yes I do believe the core gameplay of some characters is intentionally uncompetitive in a 1v1 match.
Someone has to be, intentionally or otherwise. And I'd argue Ganondorf would actually lose a fair bit of popularity if he was just run-of-the-mill bad or mediocre, instead of entertainingly bad like he is now. And it's been a part of him for so long that I don't think fans would even appreciate it if the whole moveset was foisted on someone else like I heard so often suggested for Black Shadow the F-Zero villain.
They have their vision of identity when they make a character and the devs will stick to said vision adamantly, regardless of it's good competitively or not. So long as a good number of players find Ganon as he is fun for any reason, there's no reason to change him much or go anywhere.
Ehh, big disagree, yes he has attained that identity over time. But that doesn't mean people want it for him. People don't want him to be the worst in the game by far, they want him to be an underdog that still sees some useage. More useage than he has been seeing. They loved it when he was used more in the beginning of ultimate when people weren't yet of the opinion that he was the worst character in the game. It was the same, at least to some degree, in the early days of Sm4sh. People hated customs overall because so many of them were broken. But there were also a lot of good ones that were better than their regular special counterparts. People liked seeing Ganon being able to compensate for his weaknesses with improved recovery and better burst via customs. People like seeing Ganon being able to do stuff. He should be an underdog yes, but he doesn't need to suck nearly as much as he has for 3 games now.
He can be Ganon without being totally unusable, and people would like it more that way. Nobody likes seeing Ganon die off stage because the devs decided to screw him over (I think they just don't/didn't realize how bad his recovery is, even after all these years). I don't think the appreciation of the Dorf depends on him being the worst character in the game who dies way too easily off stage, has a crap combo game, and no good burst option to make up for his lack of speed. He's not supposed to be good, but people want him to be better than he is and has been in several games now, and it's not just that they want it, they would enjoy it more if it happened too. They would not lose interest just because he went up from indisputably worst in the game to low tier.
Oh and you were talking about what the devs what. Regarding that what the devs should want is an exciting scene because such a scene generates revenue. And Ganon is exciting to the people that make up the scene.
I get what you're saying. I also sympathize with some pros because their unfortunate mains are characters always ending up at the bottom of the barrel. It's not just Dorf but after game after game of getting shafted it IS understandably frustrating. And I don't think the devs are completely unwilling to balance the game as we've gotten several patches but yes I do believe the core gameplay of some characters is intentionally uncompetitive in a 1v1 match.
Another reason I feel strongly about respecting (even if you don't like it) is that the era we're in is one where games like Smash Ultimate, a multiplayer game where you get an enormous amount of content on an initial purchase, is becoming increasingly rare in the face of free-to-play and other live-service models. And for the platform fighting genre specifically, I've seen too many others like Multiversus and Nick All-Stars fall flat on their face because they were so over-focused on trying to create a competitive environment that they end up missing much of what makes Smash beloved to many in the first place.
That's why it irks me when I see or hear people act like playable characters are the only representation that matters and anything else is waste of effort.
Those games fell flat on their face because they were extremely unrefined and unfinished crap games which released way earlier than they should have because of greed and stupidity, not because they focused too much on the competitive side of things. Regarding Multiversus it was moreso the case that the game having an acceptable online mode and being decently functional competitively was what let it have its little boom. Meanwhile Brawlhalla is doing great and Rivals isn't dead afaik.
Stop trying to make the bad things about smash ultimate out to be an integral part of what makes ultimate good. Or make it out to sound like fixing those things might entail Nintendo going full games as a service mode (not their business model and not likely to become it either). These things don't have anything to do with one another.
You are basically just saying for us to be thankful for what we have because look at this drivel and imagine if we had to put up with that. There's really nothing to say to that type of argument. It can be applied to any form of complaint about the state of the game. It discourages discussing faults of the game in a thread where that is and has been an integral part of said thread for years.
Smash Ultimate may offer a ton of content. But it's plagued by input delay because it's on a cheapskate console. And it is a multiplayer game, but the only functional multiplayer part of it is local. The online mode (which costs money) is a great abomination of poor design and requires third party patching to work at all. This is what has let games like Multiversus enjoy the short lived attention it got. The all the rest of ultimate's many positive qualities do not excuse it's crippling faults. Rather they make it all the more tragic and reproachable that this great game will never become the success that it could be (even if it is still successful) because it's attached to a crap console that's weaker than a pretty cheap smartphone, and its online mode has been made by people who have no idea what they are doing.
And the games good qualities do not excuse the state of Ganon and some other characters either. Smash also being a party game doesn't excuse it either. Nothing about what "makes smash special" relies on Ganondorf having to be laughably bad. The devs obviously do not think like you think they do either because they've made lots of attempts at trying to make big slow and heavy characters more viable in this game and Sm4sh with mixed results.
Well, it's a good thing there's a boss version of Ganon that actually does pull from the boss attacks his forms have used across the series then, isn't it?
Look, this debate has been repeated ad nauseam, always ends with everyone in tears, never goes anywhere and this probably isn't even an appropriate place to be having it. Don't make me regret reminding people of the larger audience whose interests don't necessarily align with those on these boards.
No, that's not very good. Since a huge chunk of the playerbase will only see it rarely if at all. And also because it doesn't change anything about base Ganon which was what was being discussed.
Nothing being suggested here hurts the "larger audience" you are talking about. There are no conflicting interests. Casual players don't like falling helplessly to their deaths either.
Apparently you represent the larger audience while the rest of us don't. I disagree with that. I think you assume to know the interests of the larger audience better than the people you disagree with, and you assume that wont be questioned. Then you use that assumption in place of having a point.
Those games fell flat on their face because they were extremely unrefined and unfinished crap games which released way earlier than they should have because of greed and stupidity, not because they focused too much on the competitive side of things. Regarding Multiversus it was moreso the case that the game having an acceptable online mode and being decently functional competitively was what let it have its little boom. Meanwhile Brawlhalla is doing great and Rivals isn't dead afaik.
Stop trying to make the bad things about smash ultimate out to be an integral part of what makes ultimate good. Or make it out to sound like fixing those things might entail Nintendo going full games as a service mode (not their business model and not likely to become it either). These things don't have anything to do with one another.
You are basically just saying for us to be thankful for what we have because look at this drivel and imagine if we had to put up with that. There's really nothing to say to that type of argument. It can be applied to any form of complaint about the state of the game. It discourages discussing faults of the game in a thread where that is and has been an integral part of said thread for years.
Smash Ultimate may offer a ton of content. But it's plagued by input delay because it's on a cheapskate console. And it is a multiplayer game, but the only functional multiplayer part of it is local. The online mode (which costs money) is a great abomination of poor design and requires third party patching to work at all. This is what has let games like Multiversus enjoy the short lived attention it got. The all the rest of ultimate's many positive qualities do not excuse it's crippling faults. Rather they make it all the more tragic and reproachable that this great game will never become the success that it could be (even if it is still successful) because it's attached to a crap console that's weaker than a pretty cheap smartphone, and its online mode has been made by people who have no idea what they are doing.
And the games good qualities do not excuse the state of Ganon and some other characters either. Smash also being a party game doesn't excuse it either. Nothing about what "makes smash special" relies on Ganondorf having to be laughably bad. The devs obviously do not think like you think they do either because they've made lots of attempts at trying to make big slow and heavy characters more viable in this game and Sm4sh with mixed results.
Success it could have been? Isn't is the top selling fighting game of all time? I guess it could have sold even better, but the game has been a massive hit much like the same console you derided.
Banning Kazuya seems like a knee-jerk reaction; he's not even a top 5 character (probably top 10 though). People need to learn to counterpick characters. I lost to Kazuya with Wolf once, went back next time and won with Young Link. Kazuya wins if he can play the game, his reward on hit is so godly high, but there are a handful of characters who prevent him from playing. Sonic's another one.
Ugh, I want to say so much about Bloom and Bayonetta -- but I feel completely unqualified. I am uniformly terrible at all aspects of the Bayonetta MU and have never beaten a single PRed Bayonetta in my life--it's my worst matchup by a huge margin. So while Bloom makes me think highly of the character, I can't separate my personal struggle vs. the character from my genuine impression of the gameplay well enough to provide something insightful.
Incredible showing, though, top 10 player material for sure -- gotta give it up, as they say.
I was worried the community rallying behind a Steve ban would lead to a slippery slope of organizers who would ban strong characters because of how they're percieved on twitter and elsewhere. What a garbage reactionary decision.
Ugh, I want to say so much about Bloom and Bayonetta -- but I feel completely unqualified. I am uniformly terrible at all aspects of the Bayonetta MU and have never beaten a single PRed Bayonetta in my life--it's my worst matchup by a huge margin. So while Bloom makes me think highly of the character, I can't separate my personal struggle vs. the character from my genuine impression of the gameplay well enough to provide something insightful.
Incredible showing, though, top 10 player material for sure -- gotta give it up, as they say.
It's a weird and physically demanding matchup. Keeping up strong SDI for extended periods at a time feels dumb to me.
And then it's just a complex matchup overall outside of that. A weird character who can't be beaten by just having sound fundies. You have to enter Bayo's world.
Maybe you should play Bayo in practice sessions for a bit? Sorry, you weren't asking for advice.
Success it could have been? Isn't is the top selling fighting game of all time? I guess it could have sold even better, but the game has been a massive hit much like the same console you derided.
It is, as I said it is a success. Nonetheless it's held back a ton by being locked to a super weak console with built in delay (worsened by a bad buffering system). People are used to it so they don't notice, but the game feels bad. It's slightly sluggish and awkward in how it controls.
And then we have the online mode making it so that you either get into the scene or you play solo or locally. Depending on the area online can function somewhat, but for a lot of people finding games is difficult and when you do find them they are laggy as hell more often than not. And that's not even going in to all details about why online sucks. Suffice to say few are willing to put up with that, and many don't have friends to play with locally or the time and/or willingness to get into the scene.
People crave a good platform fighter available on PC with a functional online mode as evidenced by Multiversus initial success. There is untapped ripe territory which Nintendo could lay claim to easily. But they don't because they are stupid. So far all the other platform fighters have sucked, but if a good one with smash level refinement were to come around it could be pretty bad for Smash.
If they want to keep ultimate around for a while they really should do what they can to adress these issues. They could totally conquer the fighting game scene easily.
On another note: Texas is just trying to generate interest for their scene.
I know Texas has had problems with Steve and Kazuya dominating their brackets before, as they did ban Steve and Kazuya back in November/December time, but if this goes out of Texas then things get hit really bad with a slippery slope where any top tier character could be banned for being lame to play against (like for instance)
In any case, DDee and Rockman have investigated into PMLG a bit more, and they don't think it's very good.
Upon further inspection PMLG might actually just be trash
Yonni also doesn't think it's very good and he was the tech Steve guy.
Pmlg really reminding me of shulk tech the way it was found and caused mass panic and just never got implemented by anyone in actual games cuz the tech is fake af 🌚
Yeah, I'm gonna say banning Steve because of PMLG was a case of mass hysteria or just banning him because they don't enjoy playing against the character.
Considering how poorly (iirc) their scene is doing I don't think there's any risk of their banhammer usage spreading. It's such an obvious way to try and generate interest in dire times.
Like you say it's a slippery slope. Sonic could be next on the chopping block if he starts to make too much of a splash. And there's more. Bayo can be hella annoying especially if she's popular at some local and attending a tourney there means dealing with multiple Bayo's. And what about Min Min invalidating so much of the cast?
I think most everyone understand that banning characters is not the way to go. I kinda wish Steve had ended up banned after the new tech. In part because I dislike characters that carry, in part because Steve is genuinely overtuned even compared to other top tiers, but also because I wanted the smash scene to show that they can and will ban characters that are too broken. That banning is an option that's on the table. That way the scene would be ready for future abominations. Even if that also comes with the risk of a slippery slope.
But truth be told Steve while annoying isn't broken enough. And then there's Japan and Acola. If I was in a position of power I would've felt forced to argue against a ban. It's nice to see that all the talk about banning Steve lead to something positive in that the tech isn't being used or developed. It may have been overrated and probably wouldn't have done much initially, but once perfected I think it would've been really strong.
I don't think Nintendo have another Smash title coming up for a long time. Could be wrong, but I think we will be stuck with what we have for another couple of years. The situation could still change as metas see more refinement and matchups are perfected. Steve still has a lot of untapped potential, hopefully less than the potential of Steve counterplay.
Me thinking we will be stuck with ultimate for a long time is one reason I'm whining about the switch's built in limitations and the lack of s functional online mode. If Ultimate stays around more and more people will start using emulators. The switch is getting on in years. I know this isn't going to happen but Nintendo releasing a PC version with a patch containing some fighter adjustments, and a remade online mode would be a godsend. It would allow the scene to really blow up.
Tekken has already demonstrated the importance of a pc version. Nintendo have no reason to hesitate, nothing to lose. This would help the competitive scene immensely. And it wouldn't hurt the casual side of smash either.
PMLG seems too impractical to actually use (which was what acola said from the start). DDee, who was one of the ones pushing for a tech ban early on, has changed his mind on how good the tech is:
The Steve tech isnt that good and didn’t y’all ban the tech within a week so weren’t y’all quick to call it broken 🥸
PMLG seems too impractical to actually use (which was what acola said from the start). DDee, who was one of the ones pushing for a tech ban early on, has changed his mind on how good the tech is:
The Steve tech isnt that good and didn’t y’all ban the tech within a week so weren’t y’all quick to call it broken 🥸
That makes sense, though I think as the metagame develops (provided Steve doesn't have widespread bans by then) it will come into play more. Then again, it may not.
Honestly, it would not shock me regardless of Steve bans or not if the only super strong Steve player left was &cola.
Let's call a spade a spade; the community has thrown a lot of unwarranted vitriol towards Steve mains. Look at Onin for example. Dude got harassed off of twitter for a time because a known predator sicked his fans on him remorselessly, all for the sole crime of not wanting to have a spotlight on him for play Steve. This is not an isolated incident. We know other Steves like yonni and Jake also faced rampant harassment that has killed any drive they have to compete in the game. Steve mains get left and right accused of being carried. No ****, so is every other player that plays a top tier. It is no secret that playing a good character helps you do good. But because Steve isn't "hype", people will harass Steve mains.
Steve mains also trend younger in terms of their age. So you now have a bunch of people harassing Steve mains left and right for "upsetting" their favorite pro player. Who cares if they are also playing a top tier? The thought that this "carried" kid could beat the pro player they watch on twitch and have a parasocial relationship with is too much for parts of the community to handle. It does not help that the well for a strong Steve discourse was poisoned long ago. Yes, #bansteve #please might have been "funny", but it poisoned the well for any productive discourse. The worst of twitter and twitch chat saw to that as soon as Steve bans were even potentially on the table.
I already talked before about how Steve's ban will not be decided by some sort of objective view of what is and is not broken: it will be judged by TOs trying to make sure their locals are kept nice and healthy, especially in a rough year for esports at large. But god, I hope that the character is not banned unless PMLG is shown to be consistent in practice and easy to abuse. I would hate for this awful part of the fanbase to get rewarded for harassing minors. I would hate for the first character ban in Smash to not have this odious shadow over it. We did not ban Bayonetta or Meta Knight, but we ban the character that has teenagers beating twenty somethings in a children's fighting game. Sadly, the genie is probably out of the bottle, but god I wish that the community was not so toxic over this.
Honestly, it would not shock me regardless of Steve bans or not if the only super strong Steve player left was &cola.
Let's call a spade a spade; the community has thrown a lot of unwarranted vitriol towards Steve mains. Look at Onin for example. Dude got harassed off of twitter for a time because a known predator sicked his fans on him remorselessly, all for the sole crime of not wanting to have a spotlight on him for play Steve. This is not an isolated incident. We know other Steves like yonni and Jake also faced rampant harassment that has killed any drive they have to compete in the game. Steve mains get left and right accused of being carried. No ****, so is every other player that plays a top tier. It is no secret that playing a good character helps you do good. But because Steve isn't "hype", people will harass Steve mains.
Steve mains also trend younger in terms of their age. So you now have a bunch of people harassing Steve mains left and right for "upsetting" their favorite pro player. Who cares if they are also playing a top tier? The thought that this "carried" kid could beat the pro player they watch on twitch and have a parasocial relationship with is too much for parts of the community to handle. It does not help that the well for a strong Steve discourse was poisoned long ago. Yes, #bansteve #please might have been "funny", but it poisoned the well for any productive discourse. The worst of twitter and twitch chat saw to that as soon as Steve bans were even potentially on the table.
I already talked before about how Steve's ban will not be decided by some sort of objective view of what is and is not broken: it will be judged by TOs trying to make sure their locals are kept nice and healthy, especially in a rough year for esports at large. But god, I hope that the character is not banned unless PMLG is shown to be consistent in practice and easy to abuse. I would hate for this awful part of the fanbase to get rewarded for harassing minors. I would hate for the first character ban in Smash to not have this odious shadow over it. We did not ban Bayonetta or Meta Knight, but we ban the character that has teenagers beating twenty somethings in a children's fighting game. Sadly, the genie is probably out of the bottle, but god I wish that the community was not so toxic over this.
It is, as I said it is a success. Nonetheless it's held back a ton by being locked to a super weak console with built in delay (worsened by a bad buffering system). People are used to it so they don't notice, but the game feels bad. It's slightly sluggish and awkward in how it controls.
And then we have the online mode making it so that you either get into the scene or you play solo or locally. Depending on the area online can function somewhat, but for a lot of people finding games is difficult and when you do find them they are laggy as hell more often than not. And that's not even going in to all details about why online sucks. Suffice to say few are willing to put up with that, and many don't have friends to play with locally or the time and/or willingness to get into the scene.
People crave a good platform fighter available on PC with a functional online mode as evidenced by Multiversus initial success. There is untapped ripe territory which Nintendo could lay claim to easily. But they don't because they are stupid. So far all the other platform fighters have sucked, but if a good one with smash level refinement were to come around it could be pretty bad for Smash.
If they want to keep ultimate around for a while they really should do what they can to adress these issues. They could totally conquer the fighting game scene easily.
On another note: Texas is just trying to generate interest for their scene.
Did you call Nintendo stupid for not third partying themselves? A big part of their appeal is the IPs that you can only generally get with them. What incentive do they have to do anything of the sort? And, it being weaker also makes the Switch more afordable. Why do you think the Steam Deck didn't steal their lunch as it were?
Also, no, they probably wouldn't conquer the fighting game scene as the traditional games would likely still thrive virtually independently. And even without all that, it seems you miss the big draw for Smash. Yes, the gameplay is fun, but it's the roster that is the massive factor. Smaller stuff like Rivals just can't match the sheer star power of Smash, even just the Nintendo part. Also, similarly to the Ganon boss thing, people aren't generally anywhere near as hype for side modes and content as they are the roster.
Besides, after you buy the game and the DLC, the die is cast. If a bunch of people keep playing it in convention centers isn't really the biggest of deals at the end of the day.
Gonna talk on an unrelated subject: Luugi and his performance at Invasion marks some of the best Luigi play (and placements) we've seen since the Elegant ban. He's always been known for getting good results and being around the top 10 in Europe, but this event showed that he's still rapidly improving, getting wins on the current top 2 in EU (Bloom4Eva and Glutonny, the latter being CONVINCINGLY won) and only losing to Bloom but keeping it close in the reset. I'm happy because watching Luugi is a lot different than Elegant; he plays a unique style of Luigi that goes a lot harder on the advantage state than Elegant ever really did, but still maintains the good neutral that carried Elegant past the mediocrity of every other Luigi main. I wouldn't be surprised if Luugi could come close or surpass Elegant's skill level, especially since he's open to coming out of Europe now with going to Battle of BC this summer. Keep an eye out for this guy making upsets in that bracket.
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