• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

?


  • Total voters
    587

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
26,321
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
I think it's quite accurate too. I'd place Palutena under R.O.B. however, move Cloud and Sephiroth a tier higher, put Pac Man, Sheik and Steve lower in their respective tiers, also move up Wario one tier, but the rest seems quite good.
 
Last edited:

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4,582
Results for the Smash tournaments in Japan that happened on Christmas Day

DAWN #3

1. Akakikusu :ulthero4:
2. Jagaimo :ultpalutena:
3. Konokururu :ultkirby:
4. Aegis :ult_terry:
5. TKM :ultbylethf::ultdiddy:
5. AyaLin :ultmegaman::ultmythra::ultpyra:
7. Gorioka :ultjoker::ultsephiroth::ultmewtwo:
7. Ly :ultcorrinf::ultbyleth:

Sumabato SP 22
1. Kome :ultshulk:
2. Tsumusuto :ultdoc::ultgunner::ultryu::ultsamus:
3. komorikiri :ultsora:
4. shori :ultwolf:
5. Luminous :ultjoker::ultpyra: :ultmythra::ultcloud:
5. Toura :ultsamus:
7. Rizeasu :ultmarth::ultbylethf::ultsephiroth:
7. sssr :ultrob:
 

Cheryl~

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
453
Switch FC
SW-1511-1076-9918
isn't TKM the Peach main that beat MkLeo's Joker while he was training him in Japan for a few weeks in 2019? Surprising to see that he shifted his character over to well, the "new meta", that being Byleth/Diddy Kong.
 

Ziodyne 21

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,681
Wait so people think :ultrob: is like a top 5 character now? All it took was Zomba's wild performance at SWT?


Yeah I can see R.O.B has enough crazy jank and comeback potential to UNGA though most bad MU's, but I say he is around lower top 10 which is still very contested area
 

Djmarcus44

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
479
VoiD's new tier list
There was a problem fetching the tweet
:ultdoc:, :ultlittlemac: and :ultganondorf: are on the row below this one and are considered bottom 3.
The Gunner placement doesn't make any sense to me. Capitancito got 25th at the latest SWT beating Tilde in what many 1332 Gunners consider to be our worst matchup. In addition to the Sumabato result, Tsumusuto also won Critical Hit with mostly Gunner. He was able to secure the victory by switching to cannon jump kick against Kome.

If anyone has VoiD's reasoning, that would be appreciated. The last time I saw him mention Gunner, he didn't think Gunner had kill confirms.
 

Hippieslayer

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
961
Location
Azeroth
I don't think there's much reasoning behind that and a few other placements in voids tier list. There's just so many characters in this game.

Man I hope Komo makes Sora work and goes to the states and upsets people.
 

Linkmain-maybe

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
706
Switch FC
SW-1042-6735-2236
properly give Byleth his dues
I disagree very much with this. I have the opinion that Byleth is a high tier, but not top tier. He is too slow to combat camping, he has an issue where he has multiple moves that are really bad, and his close quarters leave a lot to be desired. His grabs are also pretty bad and his shield breaking stuff is pretty easy to avoid if you watch out for it. I just think that MKLeo is simply cracked with Byleth so the character looks better than he is.


Hydreigonfan01 Hydreigonfan01 where can I watch the VODs for Dawn 3?
 
Last edited:

Nekoo

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
4,825
Location
Behind you !
NNID
Almazu
3DS FC
0259-0278-5162
Man I hope Komo makes Sora work and goes to the states and upsets people.
Man, Komo dropping the game, coming back with Sora and starting to do good again just like in Smash 4 makes my heart flies with butterflies,
His Cloud was so good, even his Sonic was so cleaaaan in S4
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4,582
Results for WINNER! #7

1. HIKARU :ultroy::ultdk:
2. Zackray :ultsheik::ultjoker::ultgnw::ultrob:
3. Eim :ultsheik:
4. Ly :ultbyleth:
5. Paseriman :ultfox::ultchrom:
5. Umeki :ultdaisy:
7. Suinoko :ultyounglink:
7. Akakikusu :ulthero4:
9. kept :ultvillager:
9. shky :ultzss:
9. Noi :ultolimar::ultpokemontrainerf:
9. takera :ultken:
 

NairWizard

Somewhere
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
1,947
HIKARU used DK vs. Ly's Byleth. Also, Zackray went all Sheik in Grand Finals. Seemed more like he was practicing setups than actually playing the game at some points, so I wouldn't be surprised if Zackray considered this a level-up event for his Sheik.

It seems that a few Japanese players are trying out Byleth, which will hopefully give us more good data on the character.

One thing to be aware of is that Leo and sparg0 aren't solo'ing their mains. When Leo runs into a bad Byleth matchup, like Pikachu, Sonic, Min Min, and now Aegis, he'll consider a swap. sparg0 will swap to Cloud for many zoners so we don't get to see Aegis vs. zoners like Samus and Pacman. Thankfully, Cosmos shows us that side of Aegis' matchups, but we don't get similar top-level data for Byleth.

In the case of other high/top tiers, like Pikachu and ZSS and ROB, we see their mains fighting some really bad matchups. We've seen ZSS vs. spacies and Roy a dozen times now, and ESAM vs. Maister frequently involves at least a couple of Pikachu games.

Or, the most prominent example near Leo's skill level: how many times has Tweek rammed his face hard into a bad zoner matchup for Diddy (Pacman, Olimar, etc) without switching to Wolf?

Something to keep in mind that's influencing our opinions of both Byleth and Aegis (but more so Byleth).
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
26,321
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
I nearly got excited for a DK scoring that high, but we all could've known it was Roy who indeed carried the day. Byleth and Diddy getting more exposure than by just MKLeo and Tweek is also a good thing, but then again, Japan plays all the characters. It's a testimony however that Byleth is actually good. Sheik getting these sorts of results also makes me reconsider my opinion about the character.. I thought it was mostly just VoiD who got the results for her.
 
Last edited:

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,965
Location
Fascist ****Hole Of America
Dabuz's tier list
There was a problem fetching the tweet
I could nitpick a few things (bump Jigglypuff up) but mostly agree with this and like how he labeled it. Young Link does feel like a great character but outclassed and with too many bad MUs. A while ago I said top tier and high tier were blending together but I take that back. There's a distinct power gap between the top and high tiers even after the nerfs.
 

Ziodyne 21

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,681
So now everyone thinks R.O.B is a top 5 character now? Before Zomba's performance at SWT many people were saying he was stagnating due to lack of top 8 appearances and such.

Like Pikachu he was a base roster character that the privilege of not getting even a slap on the wrist thoughout the entire patch history despite being a target for complaints. Unlike Pikachu R.O.B always had pretty consistent resutls to possibly justify even slight nerfs
 
Last edited:

NairWizard

Somewhere
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
1,947
Dabuz is a super studied and reasonable top player. His opinions are always worth listening to and understanding.

However, I tuned in to the stream where he made this list, and he said "you can only play Steve properly until you're 21. When your brain fully develops, it's impossible to keep playing Steve." Interesting and funny interpretation of Steve's playstyle.
 
Last edited:

RonNewcomb

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
449
Glad to see my predictions from day 2 Sephiroth were correct about Sephiroth: he got worse offline and has settled in just behind his protagonist viability-wise, despite this thread disagreeing with me.

Joker is still a great character.

No opinion on blockhead or Dabuzs opinion on its playerbase.

Lastly, with his being merely solid in just about every relevant category save OoS, Sora is DLC Pit.

... considering his massive fanbase and how Smash 4 ended, this is probably a good thing for everyone involved.
 

Arthur97

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
3,463
So now everyone thinks R.O.B is a top 5 character now? Before Zomba's performance at SWT many people were saying he was stagnating due to lack of top 8 appearances and such.

Like Pikachu he was a base roster character that the privilege of not getting even a slap on the wrist thoughout the entire patch history despite being a target for complaints. Unlike Pikachu R.O.B always had pretty consistent resutls to possibly justify even slight nerfs
One thing that may have been holding perception of R.O.B. back was the inability to do well at the top level, but this has broken that barrier showing that the robot can indeed do well at the top level. It's only one right now, but given his popularity, others may follow. Regardless, R.O.B. has proven himself a potent threat not to be taken lightly regardless of size.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4,582
Whenever I see Steve being top tier in a new tier list, I just get confused.

He's good, but he's not that good. Upper High tier I'd say. There's a good reason no top players play him seriously and it's just high level players. He loses quite a few matchups against top/high tiers, particularly sword characters such as :ultcloud:, :ultsephiroth:, :ulthero:, :ultpyra:/ :ultmythra:, :ultike:, :ultshulk: and :ultlucina:, in addition to losing to non-swordies such as :ultzss:,:ultpikachu: and :ultjoker:. Considering how common sword characters are rn, that's not good. He's got some similar weaknesses to G&W, but doesn't have the great OOS options G&W possesses. His damage capability and punish game is high, but he's also got awful mobility. Look at how many top players just don't know the matchup, Tweek did an awful job at the matchup when he fought DDog, and I think that's what responsible for most of the characters big upsets, people not knowing the matchup. Yonni is also on a downwards trend, he went from 9th at Riptide, to then getting 17th at Glitch 8.5, 33rd at Low Tide City, 25th at Smash Con Fall Fest and 49th at Mainstage.

I also don't buy the "people who are not children are not good with Steve" statement from Dabuz, unless it's for a joke.

Edit: Here's Sisqui's tier list
There was a problem fetching the tweet
 
Last edited:

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,230
Seems to me that we now have a common trend on who the elite characters are.
A lot of the recent tier lists put :ultpyra: :ultrob::ultjoker::ultroy: as the best, with :ultpalutena::ultwolf::ultpacman: also being commonly placed up there.

That seems fairly accurate to me on who the best are right now, as I do personally put these characters up there.

Oh yeah, I don't know why top players are slapping :ultsteve: into top tier, but I expect that to not last very long doing into 2022 unless the top Steve players makes some magic happen.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4,582
Seems to me that we now have a common trend on who the elite characters are.
A lot of the recent tier lists put :ultpyra: :ultrob::ultjoker::ultroy: as the best, with :ultpalutena::ultwolf::ultpacman: also being commonly placed up there.

That seems fairly accurate to me on who the best are right now, as I do personally put these characters up there.
That would also be my list in some order, but adding on :ultsonic: and :ultpikachu:. Before anyone asks, no I don't consider Pikachu top 5, but I do consider the rat top 10.
 
Last edited:

blackghost

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
2,249
not buying ROB as a top tier. it could be me as a bayo main but that character has so many random characters in mid and low tier that go even or beat him.
i also am gonna need to see ROBs place more at mid majors and regionals in top 8. zomba could just be an excpetional player.

lol bayo is not a high tier. shes a knowledge check. when you list off high tiers and imply bayo is in the same level as palutena, wolf, fox, diddy, and others it just doesnt hold up.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4,582
lol bayo is not a high tier. shes a knowledge check. when you list off high tiers and imply bayo is in the same level as palutena, wolf, fox, diddy, and others it just doesnt hold up.
I don't think Dabuz put Bayo on the level of any of those characters. Those are top tiers, not high tiers.
On the topic of ROB
There was a problem fetching the tweet
 

Sucumbio

Smash Chachacha
Moderator
Writing Team
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
8,440
Location
wahwahweewah
I'm a little surprised he put Rosalina so low... He seemed to be doing really well with her in SWT, though he ultimately lost... But I think it was less the character and more his decisions during the matches. She seems like a strong contender for high tier. Not top tier but certainly no pushover.
 
Last edited:

Ziodyne 21

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,681
This is a kinda hot take but :ultrob: in the Ultimate meta almost kinda reminds meta reminds me a lot of :4zss:at the end of Smash 4's meta. Hear me out they of course are not similar in gameplay or character archetype but how they fill the same niche

Like Smash 4 ZSS R.O.B has some flaws and disadvantages a lot of other top-tiers do not that indeed give them iffy matchups vs fellow top tiers and some lower on the tier-chain But on the other side they have enough exploitative jank and overtuned tools to keep them strong and relevant even with more well-rounded top-tiers in their respective games


Also both of then can delete stocks at disgustingly low percents off one good read or punish. So they have among of the best comeback potential of the cast. also adds to the psycological/fear factor on now even the make season pros face them.
 
Last edited:

blackghost

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
2,249
I don't think Dabuz put Bayo on the level of any of those characters. Those are top tiers, not high tiers.
On the topic of ROB
There was a problem fetching the tweet
it wasnt dabuz that said that she was. elegant said that. and given how frequently people shift top and high tier definitions the fringe chaarcter placements are hard for me to keep up with.
 

Linkmain-maybe

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
706
Switch FC
SW-1042-6735-2236
with people arguing ROBs top tier status, I feel I should give my two Cents. I feel that while he has a tough time exiting disadvantage, he has an oppressive enough neutral and rewarding enough advantage state to balance it out. He has powerful zoning tools, a zero to death, and quite possibly the best down tilt in the game. I also think I should mention that he is difficult to edgeguard. I just think that his disadvantage, while bad, doesn’t hold him back too much.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,965
Location
Fascist ****Hole Of America
Good post.

There was a problem fetching the tweet
This is a terrible post. First of all, pre-nerf :ultwario: was a top 5 character with top tier results. He deserved the nerfs. Wario might not have much range but he has amazing air mobility (2nd in air accelloration and 8th in air speed) and low cool down moves that let him vortex characters, stay on them and true combo into waft. He was one of the better characters at dealing with camping due to his small stature, great mobility and the fact that he was always brewing another waft. I wouldn't take Wario to Kalos and I play YL. He had a great neutral, advantage and disadvantage state with bike to recover. He didn't need fast smashes or jab when f5 Dtilt combos into DA and Utilt combos into Waft for kills. All his aerials are 4-9 frames; he's not a slow character.
 
Last edited:

Ziodyne 21

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,681
Yesh that whole article reeks of salt levels to where think I got kidney stones from reading it
The Pikachu comparisons were especially hillarious me because while Pikachu also got his fair share of complaints but the difference is Pika never got close to the resutls if pre-nerfed Wario

Heck Wario even after the nerfs still has just as of not more consistent results than pikachu now
 
Last edited:

DrCoeloCephalo

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
468
Location
Downtown Springdale
NNID
DrCoeloCephalo
3DS FC
5086-1965-6195
Switch FC
SW-2795-9234-1507
All that to say and yet still a small playerbase for the character, proving the point of the post. Funnily, it's the player's not playing Wario where the salt leaks from.
 
Last edited:

Arthur97

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
3,463
Well, it can happen it seems, Min Min, K. Rool, and Smash 4 Mac for example, but that hardly seems to be the only or even main factor for a lot of them. Like how they barely touched the Aegis sisters or Pikachu.
 
Top Bottom