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Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

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  • Total voters
    576

Cheryl~

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
405
Switch FC
SW-1511-1076-9918
Question for any Aegis players in here: is it just hard to react to where Pyra's D-Air spike can send you on stage? I noticed that Shuton missed a lot of easy confirms with it because he thought he'd be able to just get a Smash attack followup, but Zackray either went too high for Up Smash, or in the last interaction of the tournament, managed to tech the Down Air on stage (I think? it looked pretty weird but either way Shuton mashed the Up Smash and died for it)
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,095
Results for Kagaribi 6

1. Zackray :ultjoker: :ultsheik: :ultrob: :ultgnw:
2. Shuton :ultpyra::ultmythra: :ultolimar:
3. Paseriman :ultfox:
4. Gackt :ultness:
5. Repo :ultmegaman:
5. Kameme :ultmegaman: :ultsheik: :ultsora:
7. Sylph :ultsheik:
7. Rizeasu :ultmarth: :ultbrawler: :ultbylethf: :ultrobinf: :ultsephiroth:
9. Jogibu :ultfalcon:
9. ProtoBanham :ultlucina: :ultminmin
9. HERO :ultbowser:
9. KEN :ultsonic:
13. Noi :ultolimar::ultpokemontrainerf:
13. Omuatsu :ultminmin
13. DIO :ultsnake:
13. Kome :ultshulk: :ultpyra: :ultmythra:
17. shion :ultzss:
17. Asimo :ultryu:
17. Hitsu :ulttoonlink:
17. Munekin :ultryu: :ultken:
17. Lea :ultgreninja: :ultsora:
17. Mottsuan :ultbayonetta:
17. Tsu :ult_terry::ultlucario:
17. Toura :ultsamus:
25. Yamanaction :ultluigi::ultroy:
25. Taikei :ultsonic:
25. momon :ultridley:
25. Tsubotsubo :ultolimar:
25. shky :ultzss:
25. Riteshia :ultpyra: :ultmythra:
25. Nata :ultpit: :ultdarkpit:
25. Shirayuki :ultinkling:
33. Brood :ultpiranha:
33. Rido :ultlink:
33. Floyd :ultyoshi:
33. Abadango :ultpikachu: :ultpalutena:
33. Eim :ultsheik:
33. Rinkururu :ultlucas::ultminmin
33. Atelier :ultpokemontrainer:
33. DoubleA :ultshulk:
33. kept :ultvillager:
33. haruka. :ultlucario:
33. Kisha :ultsnake:
33. Huto :ultwario: :ultfalcon:
33. Sigma :ulttoonlink:
33. Nao :ultmario:
33. Mao :ultminmin :ultroy:
33. Tarakotori :ultlittlemac: :ultpyra: :ultmythra:

BTW, ProtoBanham and RAIN are picking up Pyra/Mythra
 
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Hippieslayer

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
838
Location
Azeroth
Question for any Aegis players in here: is it just hard to react to where Pyra's D-Air spike can send you on stage? I noticed that Shuton missed a lot of easy confirms with it because he thought he'd be able to just get a Smash attack followup, but Zackray either went too high for Up Smash, or in the last interaction of the tournament, managed to tech the Down Air on stage (I think? it looked pretty weird but either way Shuton mashed the Up Smash and died for it)
No, there's nothing particularly hard about it?

I don't think you're supposed to have to react, rather you're supposed to know intuitively how high up the opponent is going to end up based on the distance between them and the floor when they get hit combined with their characters weight and percentage, and your own rage. You should sort of know if you can use a smash attack or if you have to go for an aerial. Which is something that should come with experience.

There should be time to react to a tech. Shuton probably got a little too eager. I mean there's generally time to do a little dash before usmashing to adjust for horizontal DI. I guess it can be tight if you hit the dair from far enough above the stage floor that you don't land immediately after hitting it, but then you'd know that and adjust accordingly.

Haven't watched the set, but screw ups like the ones you mentioned can happen when you're playing a strong, tricky opponent who forces you to think a lot, and make you second guess yourself so that you hesitate when there's no need to and go in hard when you should chill. They force you to assign so much mental resources to figuring them out that you start screwing basic things up which you normally wouldn't.
 

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,012
Let's Make Big Moves 2022 has been going on right now.
Was going to be a much bigger event, but countless DQs have happened with many top players dropping out (likely due to the surge of COVID cases in the past 2 months).
Still got a lot of good talent here and we have arrived at the top 12 (the winner's side is in top 8).


Winner's
Quidd:ultpokemontrainerf: vs Scend:ultness:
Dabuz:ultrosalina::ultolimar: vs MuteAce:ultpeach:


Loser's
Fatality:ultfalcon: vs Ned:ultsephiroth::ultpokemontrainer:
quiK:ultsamus: vs Kola:ultroy::ultcloud:
Goblin:ultroy: vs IcyMist:ultsamus:
Tilde:ultfalco: vs Anathema:ultrob:
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,095
Let's Make Big Moves 2022 has been going on right now.
Was going to be a much bigger event, but countless DQs have happened with many top players dropping out (likely due to the surge of COVID cases in the past 2 months).
Still got a lot of good talent here and we have arrived at the top 12 (the winner's side is in top 8).


Winner's
Quidd:ultpokemontrainerf: vs Scend:ultness:
Dabuz:ultrosalina::ultolimar: vs MuteAce:ultpeach:


Loser's
Fatality:ultfalcon: vs Ned:ultsephiroth::ultpokemontrainer:
quiK:ultsamus: vs Kola:ultroy::ultcloud:
Goblin:ultroy: vs IcyMist:ultsamus:
Tilde:ultfalco: vs Anathema:ultrob:
Interesting to note: Quidd and Dabuz both haven't dropped a single game. They have 2-0/3-0'd everyone they played.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,718
Location
Colorado
Question for any Aegis players in here: is it just hard to react to where Pyra's D-Air spike can send you on stage? I noticed that Shuton missed a lot of easy confirms with it because he thought he'd be able to just get a Smash attack followup, but Zackray either went too high for Up Smash, or in the last interaction of the tournament, managed to tech the Down Air on stage (I think? it looked pretty weird but either way Shuton mashed the Up Smash and died for it)
Dair combos have a small % window when each specific followup will connect. I try to go for Usmash at 80-90%, then Uair has a window after that.
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,497
NNID
TCT~Phantom
I know I’m in the minority when I say this but pop off culture like with Goblin vs Icymist today or Aaron vs Riddles at summit is super unsportsmanlike and is one of the things I hate the most in the community. Even as a spectator it immediately makes me think less of the person popping off, like they are a sore winner. To me it’s toxic as heck and I wish it would be discouraged.

Let's Make Big Moves 2022 has been going on right now.
Was going to be a much bigger event, but countless DQs have happened with many top players dropping out (likely due to the surge of COVID cases in the past 2 months).
Still got a lot of good talent here and we have arrived at the top 12 (the winner's side is in top 8).


Winner's
Quidd:ultpokemontrainerf: vs Scend:ultness:
Dabuz:ultrosalina::ultolimar: vs MuteAce:ultpeach:


Loser's
Fatality:ultfalcon: vs Ned:ultsephiroth::ultpokemontrainer:
quiK:ultsamus: vs Kola:ultroy::ultcloud:
Goblin:ultroy: vs IcyMist:ultsamus:
Tilde:ultfalco: vs Anathema:ultrob:
I’m hype for Fatality vs Ned and Dabuz vs MuteAce getting a run back so soon. Also hype for Quidd repping Tri State and shutting people up who say PT is overrated lol.
 

Ziodyne 21

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,659
I wilk say this again. :ultrob: is kind becoming the :4zss: of Ultimates meta. I mean Anathema managed to beat the best user of what many RO.B mains claim is of his worst MU's.

It does not matter much when weaknesses many other top-tiers are blessed with not having. When you have such nutty crazy combeback factor and jank options to blow up nearly anyone
 
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SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,460
Location
Sweden
And Zackray re-enters the conversation as Japan's #1. Some notes from the grand finals:

* The consistent theme throughout was that Zackray got a ton of mileage out of Gun and semispikes. Shuton was regularily forced to the edge thanks to them, and those awkward situations became either more damage for Zackray or outright kills. Outside of the usual "bad recovery" (the most extreme example by far being the start of Game 2 Reset, when Shuton's Pyra got 0-to-deathed because Zackray interrupted a Prominence Revolt and a double jump consecutively.) this is worth noting since those awkward situations allowed Zackray to dictate the overall pace.

* Shuton for his part did really well remedying the usual issue I see Aegis players like Sparg0 and Cosmos have (the "almost kill" issue that comes up past kill confirm percent). He did not let Zackray live long after an "almost kill", and usually secured a KO by the next interaction.

* For that part, what I think helped seal this set was Zackray never really letting Shuton run away with a game. Shuton kept pace with Zackray throughout most of the set, but it never felt like he could truly get the Aegis neutral train going entirely.

Also, Quik getting 9th here is really good for him personally - same with IcyMist, even if both suffered some tough 2-3 losses in their LB sets. Hell, the fact that all 9th placers went out on a nailbiter does give some food for thought: the skill gap between top 10 / 20ish players like Kola and Top 50 / 100ish players might be smaller than a lot of people expect.
 
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The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,012
Let's Make Big Moves 2022 (687 Entrants (336 DQ's, so 351 players played))

1st: Quidd:ultpokemontrainerf:
2nd: Kola:ultroy::ultcloud:
3rd: MuteAce:ultpeach:
4th: Dabuz:ultrosalina::ultolimar:
5th: Scend:ultness:
5th: Goblin:ultroy:
7th: Fatality:ultfalcon:
7th: Anathema:ultrob:

9th: Ned:ultsephiroth::ultpokemontrainerf:
9th: Tilde:ultfalco:
9th: IcyMist:ultsamus:
9th: quiK:ultsamus:

13th: WaDi:ultdarksamus::ultrob:
13th: PsychoMyko:ultdarksamus:
13th: Gen:ultpalutena:
13th: Syrup:ultness:

17th: BONK!:ultmetaknight:
17th: Jdizzle:ultyounglink:
17th: omega:ultjoker:
17th: Yoda Cage:ultmorton:
17th: Stroder Ame:ultfox::ultgreninja::ultsteve:
17th: Kobe:ultyounglink:
17th: moxi:ultwolf:
17th: Mugen:ultroy:

25th: Nuggetz:ultdaisy:
25th: Onin:ultsteve:
25th: ChocoTaco:ultlucas:
25th: boosk:ultrob:
25th: LingLing:ultpeach:
25th: Uncivil ninja:ultshulk:
25th: Dark Falcon:ultrichter:
25th: DDog:ultsteve:


Definitely no where near as big as it was planned to be (only half of the entered players was actually there), but this tournament provided some very good entertainment for us to see.
Quidd performed out of his mind (last played event was Mainstage 2021 btw) and not only won the Squad Strike event, but won whole singles bracket as well. It was in pretty dominating fashion as well aside from Kola getting the bracket reset.
Kola also swept through the loser's bracket top 8 after his close set vs quiK.

Random fun fact: this is the first offline major ever since the full release of Ultimate's roster (the release of Sora), to have a top 8 without any DLC characters.
 

Nobie

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 27, 2002
Messages
2,247
NNID
SDShamshel
3DS FC
2809-8958-8223
Congrats to Quidd for a hell of a run and for defending NY.

One thing I felt from watching him play PT vs Roy is the way that each Pokemon interacts with Roy so differently. Squirtle can match in speed and combo power, but is light and risks getting clobbered early. Ivysaur spaces and zones but risks getting run over. Charizard has the tankiness. All three can potentially get demolished by Roy, but it requires Roy to change gears every time.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,095
QUIDD GAMES!!

I really don't get why all the PT players have been dropping PT. That character is still top 10-15, Atelier's placements throughout 2021 and Quidd's win here proves that.
BTW there was a tier list done by r/smashbros looking at the results through November-December, so I'm showcasing it to you.
 
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NairWizard

Somewhere
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
1,634
The Joker players drop Joker and the PT players drop PT because they don't want to be the ones pushing their metas. In gaming, there are those who invent, and there are those who execute, and those are different skillsets. Without Leo pushing Joker and Tweek pushing PT, those playerbases deflated. But make no mistake, those characters are still definitely top tier.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,393
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
Funny how Leo pushes Byleth now, and Tweek pushes Diddy now, but not many seem to want to follow those characters, still debating their viability despite all the results, but Joker and Pokemon Trainer, who's results are waning aren't questioned half as much. Kinda strange honestly.
 

Dan Quixote

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
852
Location
Florida
Funny how Leo pushes Byleth now, and Tweek pushes Diddy now, but not many seem to want to follow those characters, still debating their viability despite all the results, but Joker and Pokemon Trainer, who's results are waning aren't questioned half as much. Kinda strange honestly.
Genuinely I think most people are just parroting what other people say online, and that's how these ideas seem to spread so randomly. Straight up MGS Revengeance memes.
 

Nah

Smash Champion
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
2,138
Location
NJ, USA
There's really nothing strange about thinking that Joker and PT are still great characters. They're ones that have gotten consistently good results over the game's lifetime and are still getting good results, despite their #1 most prominent players more or less dropping them. Both also just have some qualities that kind of make for a solid character too.

The really strange thing is thinking that a character that had practically no meaningful results before Leo, that is almost entirely getting their results via Leo, that has probably not had significant counterplay developed against them because hardly anyone has been using them at a high level, that has some qualities generally considered not good, is in fact a fantastic character (literally none of you would be saying that Byleth is high or top tier if Leo never decided to play them, yet there's nothing different about the character themself).

Diddy is a different story. Monkey has good qualities, is top 10 in results right now, has had 3 games to show that his basic design works, etc.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,718
Location
Colorado
There's really nothing strange about thinking that Joker and PT are still great characters. They're ones that have gotten consistently good results over the game's lifetime and are still getting good results, despite their #1 most prominent players more or less dropping them. Both also just have some qualities that kind of make for a solid character too.

The really strange thing is thinking that a character that had practically no meaningful results before Leo, that is almost entirely getting their results via Leo, that has probably not had significant counterplay developed against them because hardly anyone has been using them at a high level, that has some qualities generally considered not good, is in fact a fantastic character (literally none of you would be saying that Byleth is high or top tier if Leo never decided to play them, yet there's nothing different about the character themself).

Diddy is a different story. Monkey has good qualities, is top 10 in results right now, has had 3 games to show that his basic design works, etc.
Byleth did get buffed you know. Leo might be the only one pushing Byleth's meta but it's advanced considerably none the less. I hadn't seen anyone make use of his upB for combos and gimps like Leo before. It's one of the best upBs in the game and I was completely sleeping on it. That plus the buffs is enough to nudge him into high tier in my book, although I agree some fans are going overboard about how good he is.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,095
I'm a big fan of Quidd winning a major with :ultpokemontrainerf: (Only other time that happened was Tweek at Low Tier City 7) because it's a new rising star in the metagame and a potential new face to look out for (Sometimes watching the non-top 10 players is fun too), and also because with :ultjoker: also winning recently, it shows that character representation, while important doesn't mean everything. Characters can still be top tier with very little top player representation since a lot of the best PTs and Joker players did drop the character.
 

Linkmain-maybe

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
526
Location
New York
I'm a big fan of Quidd winning a major with :ultpokemontrainerf: (Only other time that happened was Tweek at Low Tier City 7) because it's a new rising star in the metagame and a potential new face to look out for (Sometimes watching the non-top 10 players is fun too), and also because with :ultjoker: also winning recently, it shows that character representation, while important doesn't mean everything. Characters can still be top tier with very little top player representation since a lot of the best PTs and Joker players did drop the character.
Isn’t DK pretty popular despite being viewed as a bottom-low tier?
 

Frihetsanka

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
1,975
Location
Sweden
Funny how Leo pushes Byleth now, and Tweek pushes Diddy now, but not many seem to want to follow those characters, still debating their viability despite all the results, but Joker and Pokemon Trainer, who's results are waning aren't questioned half as much. Kinda strange honestly.
Joker and Pokémon Trainer have already been proven time and time again, so even though the best players of those characters no longer play them, we still know that they're great characters (I'm not 100% convinced Pokémon Trainer is top tier though, even Tweek didn't think all that highly of them if you look at his PT MU chart).

Tweek seems to be practicing Sephiroth now, and Ned has been playing more Sephiroth than PT for a while now. If Tweek keeps practicing Sephiroth I suspect the notion that some have that Sephiroth is a mid tier should eventually disperse. I hope. It's kind of annoying how, whenever Sephiroth is mentioned in a tier list video, people usually talk more about his weaknesses than his strengths. People went from overrating this character to underrating this character.

Oh, and if Nairo were playing tournaments I imagine that'd also help... Right now he can't, due to his Twitch ban. I guess getting banned from Twitch effectively also ruins your Smash career if you're a top player. Scary to think that a single company has that much power. Imagine if Tweek or MkLeo would get banned for whatever reason? Scary to think about.
 

F4lcoMain

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
38
Oh, and if Nairo were playing tournaments I imagine that'd also help... Right now he can't, due to his Twitch ban. I guess getting banned from Twitch effectively also ruins your Smash career if you're a top player. Scary to think that a single company has that much power. Imagine if Tweek or MkLeo would get banned for whatever reason? Scary to think about.
...Apologies for going off-topic but just wanted to address this since its been mentally bothering me for the past year or two.

The bigger you are, the bigger target there is on your head and the less leeway there is for letting certain mistakes and things slide (this applies to both Twitch and Nairo). Doubt Twitch itself really wants to be this draconian, but ultimately, with how big it is, it needs to enforce its rules equally in order to satisfy much bigger groups like the government and various other organizations, otherwise, it may just get shut-down. Similarly, with how big Nairo is, mobs of people will relentlessly shame him, dehumanize him, and make jokes about him committing suicide without analyzing any context behind his specific actions, all to serve some bigger purpose. Ultimately, even if Nairo is innocent to some of the community, the hate he's acquired due to his influence doesn't automatically disappear since most people don't choose to be informed or really care about the details and will still see him as evil. Its an unfortunate situation, but as long as these people exist, Twitch can't reinstate Nairo without hurting their brand.
 

Arthur97

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
3,272
Joker and Pokémon Trainer have already been proven time and time again, so even though the best players of those characters no longer play them, we still know that they're great characters (I'm not 100% convinced Pokémon Trainer is top tier though, even Tweek didn't think all that highly of them if you look at his PT MU chart).

Tweek seems to be practicing Sephiroth now, and Ned has been playing more Sephiroth than PT for a while now. If Tweek keeps practicing Sephiroth I suspect the notion that some have that Sephiroth is a mid tier should eventually disperse. I hope. It's kind of annoying how, whenever Sephiroth is mentioned in a tier list video, people usually talk more about his weaknesses than his strengths. People went from overrating this character to underrating this character.

Oh, and if Nairo were playing tournaments I imagine that'd also help... Right now he can't, due to his Twitch ban. I guess getting banned from Twitch effectively also ruins your Smash career if you're a top player. Scary to think that a single company has that much power. Imagine if Tweek or MkLeo would get banned for whatever reason? Scary to think about.
Hmm, though if their is a shift, it's possible for them to go down, is it not? Like, if the meta is shifting away from them, and their results dwindle, can you really say the old results still hold up?
 
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Linkmain-maybe

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
526
Location
New York
Hello, here to revive the thread from death. While I feel that Link has lots of consistency issues and his lack of speed and burst options hinders him, FlashBlaziken is showing why so any people thought he was top tier in the beginning. His safe pressure with projectiles and his ability to box surprisingly well with NAIR and BAIR allows him to force opponents into picking options. However, picking options against link must be done thoughtfully. Jumping is usually a big no-no, due to his lightning quick BAIR, killing FAIR, and extremely safe NAIR(which is decently disjointed). Staying in shield for too long is especially bad, allowing him to get easy shield pokes with NAIR and boomerang. Rolls can be covered by a well placed bomb and boomerang. Spot dodge isnt that great because of the sheer amount of hitboxes he can throwout. BAIR and NAIR are very safe if spaced and hit as low as possible, being unpunishable by every OOS in the game if hit correctly. Thus, the best option is to attack before he can start pressure, usually with disjoints or projectiles, or avoid it by getting out of his range. Its for this reason that he can struggle against fast characters like Wolf and swordies like Lucina. In the case that Link figures out the opponent is attacking before he starts pressure, he can whiff punish easily with boomerang, which leads to great reward with FAIR, NAIR, and BAIR strings.

Links edgeguarding is his greatest strength. He has multiple ways to prevent access to the stage. Boomerang, arrow, bomb, NAIR, BAIR, DAIR, and UP-B are all perfect for edgeguarding, with only dair being risky. However, he can eliminate that risk with the T-Spike. I could explain each tool, but doing so would make no sense. Everybody knows this already! Ditto for ledge trapping.

To be continued…
 
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SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,460
Location
Sweden
Country breakdown of the top 100:

US: 42 players (highest: Tweek, 3rd)
Japan: 25 players (highest: ProtoBanham, 4th)
France: 9 players (highest: Gluttony, 9th)
Mexico: 6 players (highest: MKLeo, 1st)
Canada: 3 players (highest: Riddles, 27th)
Netherlands: 3 players (highest: Mr. R, 60th)
Dominican Republic: 2 players (Sonix, 34th, and CapitanCito, 95th)
Germany: 2 players (Tarik, 98th, and DarkThunder, 99th)
Spain: 2 players (Sisqui, 35th, and AndresFN, 48th)
United Kingdom: 2 players (Peli, 69th, and Bloom4Eva, 91st)
Australia: 1 player (JDizzle, 57th)
Costa Rica: 1 player (Yei, 90th)
Switzerland: 1 player (Jaka, 100th)

Also, regional rankings:


Barnard also confirmed in a twitter response that SEA won't be getting a regional ranking due to a lack of data - this is not only applicable to it, but also other regions that didn't see a lot of offline action. I'm kinda curious if ANZ will get one - I'm kinda confident due to JDizzle's presence in the global rankings, but still.
 
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blackghost

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
2,182
The top 25 of OrionRank will be posted later today. So far top 150 to top 26 have been posted. Stay tuned...

Edit: Now it's been posted
North America the land of capitalis-- I mean dlc. Lol. But seriously none of Europe's top players use a dlc? That might actually be a very bad thing long term. You need to play vs good players using these character to get better against them.

I've already posted my theory as to why a Bayonetta player i think is worse than lima and shadow pr and others wins and routinely places high (top 16 to top8) in Europe's largest events the region. I think history has a chance to repeat itself with our new dlc characters.
 
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Kokiden

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
757
...Apologies for going off-topic but just wanted to address this since its been mentally bothering me for the past year or two.

The bigger you are, the bigger target there is on your head and the less leeway there is for letting certain mistakes and things slide (this applies to both Twitch and Nairo). Doubt Twitch itself really wants to be this draconian, but ultimately, with how big it is, it needs to enforce its rules equally in order to satisfy much bigger groups like the government and various other organizations, otherwise, it may just get shut-down. Similarly, with how big Nairo is, mobs of people will relentlessly shame him, dehumanize him, and make jokes about him committing suicide without analyzing any context behind his specific actions, all to serve some bigger purpose. Ultimately, even if Nairo is innocent to some of the community, the hate he's acquired due to his influence doesn't automatically disappear since most people don't choose to be informed or really care about the details and will still see him as evil. Its an unfortunate situation, but as long as these people exist, Twitch can't reinstate Nairo without hurting their brand.
Twitch already hurt it's brand by being so lenient towards Alinity.

There is definitely bias there, but nothing anyone can do about it.
 

B_Burg

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 1, 2019
Messages
51
Looking at the list for JP, is :ultsheik: considered Kameme's main now? I know he's been using :ultmegaman: a lot less lately, but I thought most of his attention was on :ultsora: who is also listed as a secondary.


Looking at all the lists I also find it interesting that NA top 50 has 2 players for :ultmario: but neither EU nor JP has any in the top 50, even as a secondary. But they do have a :ultdoc: for JP and as a secondary in EU.
 

SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,460
Location
Sweden
New tier list from Light
I like how K Rool was one of the most buffed characters throughout Ultimate's life and he still winds up frequently in the "Bottom 10" category like he was back in 2019. Yeah, the bottom 10 range is still in much better shape than it was in 2019, but still.

And yes, most of the buffs he got went into "kill earlier" which doesn't solve his fundamental issues really. It might be related to Sakurai initially fearing K. Rool was too strong, but it turning out to not be the case. I'm also kinda wondering if they played that game of Operation Thinkaman pointed out - where they tried to buff moves without giving KirbyKid a truly oppressive toolkit.

Also, HERO posted a :ultbowser: MU chart...


Which is spicy and I love it. Bowser losing to Plant and Ganondorf? We need more of these kinda wacky MU charts, they add some much needed spice.
 
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NairWizard

Somewhere
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
1,634
When I watch Tweek's Sephiroth it really looks to me like the character is playing with half a neutral game. Sephiroth might have one of the most frightening advantage states in the game with a deep disadvantage tree between Scintilla and ledge options, but man, swinging the sword can be so costly sometimes in neutral that you're better off not doing anything and trying to whiff punish with dash attack/grab/side-b instead. I don't doubt that Sephiroth players can win majors, but clearly traditional sword spacing isn't going to work for Sephiroth the way it works for Byleth, Aegis, or Lucina.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,718
Location
Colorado
I like how K Rool was one of the most buffed characters throughout Ultimate's life and he still winds up frequently in the "Bottom 10" category like he was back in 2019. Yeah, the bottom 10 range is still in much better shape than it was in 2019, but still.

And yes, most of the buffs he got went into "kill earlier" which doesn't solve his fundamental issues really. It might be related to Sakurai initially fearing K. Rool was too strong, but it turning out to not be the case. I'm also kinda wondering if they played that game of Operation Thinkaman pointed out - where they tried to buff moves without giving KirbyKid a truly oppressive toolkit.

Also, HERO posted a :ultbowser: MU chart...


Which is spicy and I love it. Bowser losing to Plant and Ganondorf? We need more of these kinda wacky MU charts, they add some much needed spice.
That's one wonky and pessimistic MU chart. I agree :ultyounglink: beats :ultbowser: but just by +1. People tend to exaggerate YL's advantage in MUs because he seems so convincing when he's beating you with his amazing neutral. The thing is YL's almost never killing Bowser before 180% and often after 200% and Bowser can kill YL off one read, bbomb shield break or offstage Fair at 80%. YL's light with bottom 5 kill power across his moveset. It's also very stage dependent. YL might beat Bowser +1.5 on PS2 or TnC but it's even on BF and Lylat.
 
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Linkmain-maybe

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
526
Location
New York
That's one wonky and pessimistic MU chart. I agree :ultyounglink: beats :ultbowser: but just by +1. People tend to exaggerate YL's advantage in MUs because he seems so convincing when he's beating you with his amazing neutral. The thing is YL's almost never killing Bowser before 180% and often after 200% and Bowser can kill YL off one read, bbomb shield break or offstage Fair at 80%. YL's light with bottom 5 kill power across his moveset. It's also very stage dependent. YL might beat Bowser +1.5 on PS2 or TnC but it's even on BF and Lylat.
Even worse factoring rage which makes Bowser kill super early. Fair at ledge wont even KO bowser until like 140% which requires a confirm or read
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,095
Results from Royal Brawl, a Texas regional.

1. MuteAce :ultpeach:
2. Lima :ultbayonetta:
3. SHADIC :ultcorrinf:
4. YellowRello :ultyoshi:
5. Hakii :ultsheik:
5. Zie :ultpalutena:
7. z3 :ultyounglink:
7. Brr :ultkazuya:
9. Gidy :ultchrom:
9. Skinny the Pooh :ultmario:
9. Davy :ultpokemontrainer:
9. Kazma :ultrob:
 

SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,460
Location
Sweden
DAWN 4 results (24 entrants, Takera was apparently eliminated in pools):

1st Paseriman :ultfox:
2nd
TV ∣ Jagaimo :ultpalutena: :ultwolf:
3rd
UG ∣ MASA :ultfalco:
4th Konokururu :ultkirby:
5th Mikamika :ultminmin :ultsteve:
5th Futari no Kiwami Ah~! :ulticeclimbers:
7th Senra
:ultjigglypuff:
7th Makura :ulttoonlink: :ultlink:
9th Gorioka :ultjoker: :ultsephiroth:
9th Fuwa :ulticeclimbers:
9th Hikari :ultmario: :ultwolf: :ultsheik:
9th Brood :ultpiranha:

And here we have another really volatile Japanese tournament. Not just Takera, but also Jagaimo going on a 7-set win streak in Losers + taking Paseriman to Game 5 last stock in the GF Reset; and an online Min Min / Steve getting 5th offline. Oh and apparently a new Toon Link player? Never heard of the guy.

Think SapphSabre777 will be really happy to see a Kirby main reach Top 4 here - not only did Konokururu get 4th, he went on a 4-set win streak in Loser's, eliminating Fuwa, Senra and Mikamika (both Min Min and Steve sound intuitively hellish for Kirby) in the process.
 
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