Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Ziodyne 21]

There were many Notable/ high seedef player that droppd out including Stroder, Prodigy, Zenoyu and MrConCon. Bassmage also suddenly DQ'd as he was in winners side so he neve technically lost

 

[Nobie]

There were many Notable/ high seedef player that droppd out including Stroder, Prodigy, Zenoyu and MrConCon. Bassmage also suddenly DQ'd as he was in winners side so he neve technically lost

I looked at Bassmage's stream briefly, and I think he might have DQ'd in protest over a laggy match that the mods didn't overturn (connection tests seemed okay for both sides).

I don't know if the opponent was doing anything unsportsmanlike, but it does make me wonder how easy it is to just lag switch during the actual match and then feign innocence during connection tests.

 

[Thinkaman]

I looked at Bassmage's stream briefly, and I think he might have DQ'd in protest over a laggy match that the mods didn't overturn (connection tests seemed okay for both sides).

I don't know if the opponent was doing anything unsportsmanlike, but it does make me wonder how easy it is to just lag switch during the actual match and then feign innocence during connection tests.

I think "lag switches" are vastly overstated as a threat. (I can't tell you how many times we see this exact song and dance in politics over and over.)

The internet is super complex and prone to varibility, especially in the US. Increasingly games in other genres are built on dedicated servers or co-op games able to mask small p2p hiccups, which spoils us fighting game players every time we play other games. We have a huge bias to focus on inconviences and slights to ourselves, while quickly forgetting the same to our opponent. And we have a bias to interpret things as against ourselves--it's possible for both players to simultaneously interpret a blip of lag as "against" them. And then most of all, is the human tendency to see patterns in everything.

It's like they say: Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to rushhour traffic.

 

[Game7a1]

I think "lag switches" are vastly overstated as a threat. (I can't tell you how many times we see this exact song and dance in politics over and over.)

The internet is super complex and prone to varibility, especially in the US. Increasingly games in other genres are built on dedicated servers or co-op games able to mask small p2p hiccups, which spoils us fighting game players every time we play other games. We have a huge bias to focus on inconviences and slights to ourselves, while quickly forgetting the same to our opponent. And we have a bias to interpret things as against ourselves--it's possible for both players to simultaneously interpret a blip of lag as "against" them. And then most of all, is the human tendency to see patterns in everything.

It's like they say: Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to rushhour traffic.

I'm just going to add onto what Nobie said, but while watching BassMage's stream, his opponent was also lag tested in previous rounds and was deemed OK despite VersedAce (the round before BassMage) saying in chat their match was laggy. And this isn't anything new in the SWT qualifier as it happened in the South American Qualifier (although that was more of a geographical issue than anything). As well, in the European Qualifier, it was determined that one player that made it far into the bracket (placed 17th) wasn't using LAN, which is required in SWT. So while it would be nice to give people the benefit of the doubt, stuff like not using LAN or lag switching or what have you by anyone can happen. That all said, I did notice lag in the lag test between BassMage and the mod, but it also could have been due to him streaming as well? Who knows. So many variables to keep track of.

Makes me wish in-person tournaments could come sooner as we wouldn't have to deal with all this nonsense, but safety and caution come first.

 

[SwagGuy99]

Akakikusu updated his Hero matchup chart. I remember Hero mains being exicited that Akak seemed to be becoming more optimistic in Hero and thought he was a Top 10 character, but I don't feel like this makes Hero look Top 10 at all, let alone Top Tier. (Tiers go from -1, -0.5, Even, +0.5, +1, +2, Olimar and Pyra/Mythra are unranked.)

 

[Thinkaman]

I'm finding myself weirdly excited about SWT; partly just being thirsty for Smash to get back, but more specifically that it feels like an appropriate on-ramp for things starting back. Way better than just, "Huh, some random regionals are picking back up slowly, cool."

 

[Nobie]

Akakikusu updated his Hero matchup chart. I remember Hero mains being exicited that Akak seemed to be becoming more optimistic in Hero and thought he was a Top 10 character, but I don't feel like this makes Hero look Top 10 at all, let alone Top Tier. (Tiers go from -1, -0.5, Even, +0.5, +1, +2, Olimar and Pyra/Mythra are unranked.)

If Akakikusu is correct, Hero beats Steve but gets slain by Little Mac.

That is...a wild character.

 

[Rizen]

Sometimes bad characters have oddly good MUs vs relevant characters. Another example is beating .

 

[Thinkaman]

For all the splash that and made at this event, not one is moving on. Dom had a sizeable hand in that; I would have liked to see either character against BassMage, though perhaps BassMage disagrees.

 

[TennisBall]

For all the splash that and made at this event, not one is moving on. Dom had a sizeable hand in that; I would have liked to see either character against BassMage, though perhaps BassMage disagrees.

Yonni was an inch away from qualifying.

In another universe, he got a kill confirm and Steve would have some offline representation.

Alas top level is a harsh world, and Larry Lurr is the one who will be qualifying tonight.

Heartbreaking, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss watching Smash tournaments for hours and I've been seeing way more lately.

 

[Game7a1]

So, the following 8 players qualified in the SWT Southwest Qualifier:
Scend (Bestness)
Kiyarash
MVD
Hanayome
BassMage
Larry Lurr (Mii Brawler did not win a set, but I'm including it because it won 2 games)
T3 DOM
Midnight

We mostly see the same characters from the other qualifiers, but it's still pretty diverse.

 

[Rizen]

So I've been practicing my PMythra and here are several observations:
First off, damn they are easy to SD with. You can't grab the ledge until the swapping animation from one to the other is completely finished and you fall a fair distance during it. Learn from my mistake; don't try this.

Mythra is just stupidly good. Most of her moves are fast in both startup and endlag. If she hits you with any tilt, you'll probably take at least one or two more hits. She can chain from tilts so easily. SideB is the most braindead punish ever and you deal about 20%. The AoE is huge. It's excellent as a followup or landing/dodge trap. Foresight allows Myth to not only escape but punish disadvantage situations most characters would have a lot of trouble with. She's better Lucina. Lucina like frame data with a better sideB and better mobility. Lucina technically has slightly faster aerials but Myth has a f2 jab FFS and a F5 Dtilt that combos which is as fast as Lucina's jab.

Pyra is amazing in advantage. If you're ledge trapping an opponent you can force a 50/50. Throw Blazing End so it spins around at the ledge and you cover every getup besides dodge roll. If they roll you can read it and Fsmash. Pyra has a Dair>Usmash kill confirm at about 80%, which is ridiculous. She can easily kill you below 100%. Her stray hits like F/B/N/Uair, FTilt are all very strong too. Same with UpB. She hits like a truck with huge curving slashes. Her advantage state is devastating. And on the subject of Blazing End; this is a great projectile! It stops most other projectiles as it goes out, she can move and shield while it's out so it's very hard to punish and it's excellent at controlling midrange. They also gave her a f3 jab for some reason.

The closest thing they have to a weakness is their recovery but it's not terrible, just mediocre. It's still a lot better than Chroy's. Mythra's upB is good for edge guarding because the beam fires down and Pyra's can be used like Ike's to plank.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

BTW so ShinyMark decided to post this.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So I guess we're going back to discussion again.

In any case, Gummy's take is probably the one I agree with most.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[The_Bookworm]

BTW so ShinyMark decided to post this.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So I guess we're going back to discussion again.

In any case, Gummy's take is probably the one I agree with most.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Checked out the comment section on that tweet. In their eyes, it seems like the character is simply fairly difficult to pick-up and optimize while there are easier top tiers to play. It is not a viewpoint that I agree with, but I do find it interesting. There are a few that believe that Pika is legitimately not quite top 3 (like the tweet you posted).

I still feel that the Smash community has an unwritten rule that an electric rat MUST be a top tier no matter what. Pretty much everyone slapped the character into the top tiers once Pichu got nerfed in 3.1.0.

However, I personally don't think we should really talk about Pika again, since we already had a lot of discussion about the character the past few months. Unless you have something new to add (which I doubt), I think we are simply going to repeat the same stuff over again.

 

[RonNewcomb]

New recovery tech for ? Is this real??

Here's the secret Little Mac tech that makes the boxer's recovery not suck in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

 

[The_Bookworm]

New recovery tech for ? Is this real??

Here's the secret Little Mac tech that makes the boxer's recovery not suck in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

That is an interesting find! I wonder if it works with as well.
It is very simple tech to perform, but you are still leaving yourself vulnerable by using your double jump, so that is something to note.

 

[SKX31]

New recovery tech for ? Is this real??

Here's the secret Little Mac tech that makes the boxer's recovery not suck in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

Yup, Peanut posted the original to Reddit a couple days ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/n3h152

That is an interesting find! I wonder if it works with as well.
It is very simple tech to perform, but you are still leaving yourself vulnerable by using your double jump, so that is something to note.

I'm not entirely sure how game-changing it'll be for Mac, but it does change quite a bit since he'll have more avenues to recover. With this Mac can circle around to the other side of Smashville from below (the second clip in the Reddit post).

 

[Nobie]

I'm interested in seeing if flying dair helps Mac avoid getting juggled onstage as well.

It's a risk to burn your second jump, but it might be the right choice in some situations?

 

[blackghost]

i may be wrong but the hilarious part of this tech is that it was right here under our noses the entire time thanks to the mac infinite nair off the top. how else would that have been a thing unless dair moved him upward a little.

 

[RonNewcomb]

Does anyone know how old the tech is? Was it added in a patch? I find it hard to believe that all Mac mains missed this in 4, but maybe it's been in ultimate since the beginning?

I mean we have dataminers look at every patch's data exactly for shadow changes like this, right?

EDIT I'm reading that it sacrifices a bit of height of the djump for better horizontal airspeed. If so that's useful as a juke vs edgeguarding, since a good place to stick a fair is into the top of a jump's arc. Mac can now slip under that even if he doesn't need the airspeed boost.

 

[RonNewcomb]

Also, doesn't Thinkaman play Mac? I'd be interested in his take.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Top 32 seeding for the NW NA Smash World Tour has been unveiled!

1. SKITTLES!!
2. Pandarian
3. Middy
4. Big D
5. Lemmon
6. Exodia
7. rm8
8. JeJaJeJa
9. Alphicans
10. Dragoomba
11. Dominque
12. Jbandrew
13. Scubbss
14. Silver
15. Pasta B0i
16. Erik
17. JDV
18. H4DS
19. MarkTheSDKing
20. Grade
21. JojoDaHoBo
22. Ludo
23. Tickle
24. Locus
25. Blutsuager
26. Justice
27. Kwaz
28. PinkShirtGuy
29. Zen
30. #1MandoFanGirlAccount~
31. Opsine
32. CrowZ

Would definitely feel welcome to see characters like join the ranks of other qualifiers, and another making it wouldn't definitely hurt to see at all either. It'd also be pretty funny to see an onslaught of and players ruin everyone's day once again lol.

 

[The_Bookworm]

King 2021 (77 Entrants)

1st: Myran
2nd: ESAM
3rd: Rivers
4th: WaDi
5th: Epic_Gabriel
5th: Goblin
7th: Yez
7th: Airswimmer

 

[Thinkaman]

Also, doesn't Thinkaman play Mac? I'd be interested in his take.

I think this is extremely minor. It probably doesn't move the needle in a single matchup except maybe/hopefully DK. (For the uninitiated, I have a somewhat high opinion of Mac to begin with.)

The extra horizontal distance is very small, and it requires that you have vertical distance to spare plus your double jump. At which point, did you really have a problem to begin with? This expands a specific subset of recovery scenarios--and not the worst ones nor most common ones--by a very thin band that is unlikely to matter.

And Mac won't be recovering under the stage, that's bananatown crazypants. All of the deliberate Mac-under-X clips begin with deliberately not grabbing the opposite ledge and are still pixel-perfect you sillybillys.

On stage I don't think this has any meaningful value, because the distance is so low and in what universe is Mac going to say "I'm being juggled--I know, I'll double jump!"

Still, something every Mac should know how to do. 1 or 2 techniques doesn't change a matchup, but 20 sure can.

 

[Nobie]

I think this is extremely minor. It probably doesn't move the needle in a single matchup except maybe/hopefully DK. (For the uninitiated, I have a somewhat high opinion of Mac to begin with.)

The extra horizontal distance is very small, and it requires that you have vertical distance to spare plus your double jump. At which point, did you really have a problem to begin with? This expands a specific subset of recovery scenarios--and not the worst ones nor most common ones--by a very thin band that is unlikely to matter.

And Mac won't be recovering under the stage, that's bananatown crazypants. All of the deliberate Mac-under-X clips begin with deliberately not grabbing the opposite ledge and are still pixel-perfect you sillybillys.

On stage I don't think this has any meaningful value, because the distance is so low and in what universe is Mac going to say "I'm being juggled--I know, I'll double jump!"

Still, something every Mac should know how to do. 1 or 2 techniques doesn't change a matchup, but 20 sure can.

It does look like it slightly improves his terrible magnet hands too, so it might have some utility against really good two-framing (which is like what, 6-framing vs. Mac?).

 

[Ark of Silence101]

King 2021 (77 Entrants)

1st: Myran
2nd: ESAM
3rd: Rivers
4th: WaDi
5th: Epic_Gabriel
5th: Goblin
7th: Yez
7th: Airswimmer

I wonder, does Goblin intend to dual main? If so it will be interesting to note that none of Chrom or Roy's top players would be solo players, seeing as Rivers no longer solo mains Chrom either.

 

[RonNewcomb]

Top 32 seeding for the NW NA Smash World Tour has been unveiled!

Is this not being streamed? Or only top 8?

 

[SKX31]

SWT NA Northwest Top 32:

WB:

SKITTLES!! vs. JDV
JeJaJeJa vs. Locus
Big D vs. Scubbss
Lemmon vs. JoJoDaHoBo
Pandarian vs. SpamCop
rm8 vs. Dragoomba
Middy vs. MarkTheSDKing
Exodia vs. Domnique

LB:

Codex vs. PinkShirtGuy
LightningQuiz7 vs. Nadia
Zen vs. Grade
Erik vs. KILA
Opsine vs. Garry2Scary
Justice vs. AaronCheeseLord
Nurse vs. Silver
Furret vs. Ludo

Top 32 seeding for the NW NA Smash World Tour has been unveiled!

1. SKITTLES!!
2. Pandarian
3. Middy
4. Big D
5. Lemmon
6. Exodia
7. rm8
8. JeJaJeJa
9. Alphicans
10. Dragoomba
11. Dominque
12. Jbandrew
13. Scubbss
14. Silver
15. Pasta B0i
16. Erik
17. JDV
18. H4DS
19. MarkTheSDKing
20. Grade
21. JojoDaHoBo
22. Ludo
23. Tickle
24. Locus
25. Blutsuager
26. Justice
27. Kwaz
28. PinkShirtGuy
29. Zen
30. #1MandoFanGirlAccount~
31. Opsine
32. CrowZ

Would definitely feel welcome to see characters like join the ranks of other qualifiers, and another making it wouldn't definitely hurt to see at all either. It'd also be pretty funny to see an onslaught of and players ruin everyone's day once again lol.

Well... that onslaught didn't really happen. Sure, 2 Min Mins, but they're both in loser's (meaning they'll have to win 5 sets tomorrow in order to qualify, or get one of the LCQ spots) and no Steve made top 32. ROBs and Clouds are the most common instead at 3 each. Of the Top 32 seeding:

• All top 8 seeds made it to Winners.
• Of the 9-16 seeds, 5 of them made it to top 32, with 3 of them in Winners and Alphicans the highest seed to not make it.
• Of the 17-24 seeds, 6 out of 8 made it to top 32 and 4 of them to Winners.
• Of the 25-32 seeds, 4 of them make it to top 32, all in Losers.
• That leaves one in WB (SpamCop I believe?) and 8 in LB who weren't seeded prior to this.

Is this not being streamed? Or only top 8?

Only tomorrow's action will be streamed by VgBootCamp, starting with the Skittles / JDV set. Top 6 of this qualifier + Top 2 of LCQ qualify for the NA West Regional, those 8 will face off against those who qualified from NA Southwest last week.

 

[The_Bookworm]

As of today, it was been slightly over two months since 's release (March 4th), and almost three months since her reveal (February 17th).

Outside of the SWT going on, things content-wise have been quiet for a long while now. I think a reveal next month at E3 is going to be inevitable.

I know that it is hard to judge considering that we are still stuck in online, but how have your opinions change on the duo since we have them for a considerable amount of time now?
I doubt things haven't changed much since the duo is a fairly straightforward character(s), but I am interested.

My two cents is that the duo is very good, but I find them (especially Mythra) to be not quite as overbearing to deal with than I initially thought.
Mythra overwhelms with extreme speed, fast frame data, and having a sword on top of that, but I am also finding the very low shieldstun on her moves to be a cap in what is overwise a very safe character.

 

[SwagGuy99]

SWT NA Northwest Top 32:

WB:

JeJaJeJa vs. Locus

Locus also used and on his way to Top 32. Seems like it's worth mentioning

 

[Emblem Lord]

As of today, it was been slightly over two months since 's release (March 4th), and almost three months since her reveal (February 17th).

Outside of the SWT going on, things content-wise have been quiet for a long while now. I think a reveal next month at E3 is going to be inevitable.

I know that it is hard to judge considering that we are still stuck in online, but how have your opinions change on the duo since we have them for a considerable amount of time now?
I doubt things haven't changed much since the duo is a fairly straightforward character(s), but I am interested.

My two cents is that the duo is very good, but I find them (especially Mythra) to be not quite as overbearing to deal with than I initially thought.
Mythra overwhelms with extreme speed, fast frame data, and having a sword on top of that, but I am also finding the very low shieldstun on her moves to be a cap in what is overwise a very safe character.

Mythra on average is -7 on block for aerials.

That is quite safe for a sword character with her mobility stats.

 

[blackghost]

until we are back in person the three dlc characters are virtually unknown in terms of what their potential is and what their ceiling is. online ultimate is not making figuring this out any easier. we may not be in person until spring 2022 in some places.

 

[Thinkaman]

A recap of SWT 2021 qualifiers by character so far. (Warning, I am only considering what I judge to be mains, even when it makes no sense to do so, and I am giving the deepest look at Mexico/Europe/Japan/NA because I have limited time and this is unweighted. I mention a few high-placing unusual character picks from other regions + secondaries at the end.)

Format:

1234|HHHH
5677|HHHH
9999|PPPP
DDDD|PPPP
[also qualified]
(D-13, H-17, P-25)

Mexico
|
|
|
|
[]

Europe
|
|
|
|
[]

Japan
|
|
|
|
[]

NA Southwest
|
|
|
|
[]

NA Northwest
|
|
|
|
[]

Qualified: (including 7th and 9th place in Europe)




7th:
9th:
13th:
17th:
25th:

Qualified Edit: Prominent qualifiers from other regions, or prominent secondaries of qualifying players:
and / if you count MKLeo

Otherwise missing AFAIK:


I'll update when the other qualifiers transpire, or if anyone points out an error in my labeling of mains.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

A recap of SWT 2021 qualifiers by character so far. (Warning, I am only considering what I judge to be mains, even when it makes no sense to do so, and I am giving the deepest look at Mexico/Europe/Japan/NA because I have limited time and this is unweighted. I mention a few high-placing unusual character picks from other regions + secondaries at the end.)

Format:

1234|HHHH
5677|HHHH
9999|PPPP
DDDD|PPPP
[also qualified]
(D-13, H-17, P-25)

Mexico
|
|
|
|
[]

Europe
|
|
|
|
[]

Japan
|
|
|
|
[]

NA Southwest
|
|
|
|
[]

NA Northwest
|
|
|
|
[]

Qualified:




7th:
9th:
13th:
17th:
25th:

Qualified from other regions, or prominent secondaries of qualifying players:
and / if you count MKLeo

Otherwise missing AFAIK:


I'll update when the other qualifiers transpire, or if anyone points out an error in my labeling of mains.

ShinyMark secondaries Lucina, as does ProtoBanham.
Edit: New Tweek Talks

 

[SKX31]

So these are the 8 that qualified from SWT NA Northwest to the NA West Regional (Sep. 25th-26th):

1st. SKITTLES!! *
2nd. Pandarian *
3rd. Middy *
4th. Domnique *
5th. Exodia
6th. Big D
7th (LCQ 1st). Silver *
8th (LCQ 2nd). Justice *

* I mean, look at this:


The future is now (?). Edit; I feel kinda bad for Ludo, who came close twice (leading 2-0 vs. Justice in the LCQ Loser's Final, before Justice pulled off the reverse sweep) but missed both times.

The NA Southeast online qualifier will be next weekend, and will feature players from these states fighting for 8 spots at the NA East Regional:

Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee

Notable players from this region that may attend (or not, but we'll have to see) the qualifiers include (ranked in either PGR or Wi Fi Warrior rank up to Area 51). This is mainly to illustrate the depth this region has:

PGRU Fall 2019:

ScAtt
Goblin
RFang

Kola
Wrath
Myran

Wi Fi Warrior Rank v6:

Epic_Gabriel
Yez
Aaron
KirbyKid
8BitMan
ChunkyKong
Benny&TheJets
JMafia
YoseFu

 

[blackghost]

ah, the southeast land of the chroys and ROBs.

big d put on a shownlast weekend showing both the iceies strengths and weaknesses as a character. character is a huge knowledge check.

 

[Game7a1]

Qualified from other regions, or prominent secondaries of qualifying players:
and / if you count MKLeo

Otherwise missing AFAIK:


I'll update when the other qualifiers transpire, or if anyone points out an error in my labeling of mains.

So, I'm just doing some searching up on the missing characters, but the following people main or secondary these characters and qualified:
: Poppt1 (qualified through Oceania and primarily used in qualifier)
: Yei (qualified through Central America LCQ but did win a game with Meta Knight in main bracket; it's iffy to consider this a secondary, so I leave the decision up to you)
: Yei (see above, but won 2 games)
: Tarik (secondary usage in European Qualifier, but mostly in phase 1 and 2 of pools), Yei (see comment on Meta Knight), and MKLeo (secondary use; won a set in top 32 and took 3 games from Sparg0)
: Exodia (used for 5th place tie breaker against Big D, but only won a game) and Junkyarddude (main; qualified through East Asia Qualifier)
: Nair^ (secondary usage in Mexico Qualifier top 32; won a set)

 

[Thinkaman]

I edited my message to clarify that I was only adding "prominent qualifiers" at the end.

Trying to choose my words carefully... Oceania and South America technically had 16 players "qualify" for the next stage. But those players are fighting over 1 spot! Poppt getting 9th place in Oceania is in no way equivalent to someone getting 6th in Mexico or Japan--even if the regions were of equal strength!

If the #2 and #3 players in Oceania both played Dark Pit, yeah we should take notice. But it's not a value judgement (on our part) to put far less weight on the 4 minor regions--it's just literally the format of the tour.


Same for secondaries. The point of the "visualization" is just a compact grid of mains, rather than a comprehensive list of characters used or measure of their usage. I only felt a need to shoutout or "correct" for secondaries that are bordering on co-mains.


And of course, I filter out serial oddball character usage by players who already qualified. Minny can go random all she wants, more power to her. (And shame on the commentators for throwing shade!) People can do K. Rool in grand finals for giggles, and frankly it's entertaining to watch. But let's not sit here and act like this is meta-relevant information.

Normally I'm the first person to insist that oddball secondary choices "should be counted" when there is money on the line and the best players in the world truly believed in their heart that said secondary was their best shot at winning. But that's night and day from people goofing around a bit in low-stakes matches an online qualifier they already won.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Okay, let's talk DK for a second. I've been noticing DK is placing quite well, relatively, quite often as of late. Is the character actually Low Tier? Or just a real flawed, polarizing Mid Tier?

 

[Thinkaman]

ShinyMark secondaries Lucina, as does ProtoBanham.

AFAIK neither used Lucina even once during their SWT Qualifier.