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Where's the button to remind people that probably most of his big win were from MKLeo who probably carry the Character's rep by himself as a Solo main rather than Pick that get thrown there and there as a counterpick in one game or two?
I'm not Arguing against Joker being a Top Tiers.
That was at the very beginning of the game, for a much shorter period of time.
It's exactly the same.
Have you spoken to the people who make the Orion stats about this? I thought it was weighted so Joker was measured evenly with the others. I really don't know.
Leo also thought Link was top 5 and a tier above Snake iirc.
Nah. "Exactly the same" is a gross oversimplification and dismissal of how the meta has developed, Joker's superior and more consistent success over a longer time period in said environment, and of course the far more complex and potential-stuffed kit within Joker himself compared to Ike's unga boonga routine.
Give me a 'love' button instead of a like button for this post, please.
's still pulling results. First Myran now Shuton. The shield poke thing is big but he has a lot of top tier qualities. I wonder if Debuz will pick him back up.
I didn't know Salem quit Link. Been out of the loop for a while. Idk, I still find Link to be better than Young Link overall but I can see why most people gather around Young Link around here. Much better combo potential, faster, better zoning... all qualities that we worship here. Just hate how easy he is to kill and how hard it is to kill with him. I wonder if Japan has a different mindset when it comes to meta.
(sort of) 
Overrated: Lucina, Wolf, Joker, Snake, Wario, Zero Suit Samus, Pokémon Trainer, Ness, Ganondorf. Underrated: Pikachu, Inkling, Shulk, Palutena, Greninja, Mario, Mr. Game & Watch, Lucas, Duck Hunt.
I've shared some of my reasoning above, but as for Inkling and Palutena, I think they're both top 5 characters. Greninja could be as well, but either way I've seen many people put Greninja outside of top 10, so I do think Greninja is somewhat underrated by many.
overrated: shulk reasoning time's up i need to see something of substance if your best mains can't deliver the character deserves the label of overrated.
are underrated.: This is a character with definite, solid problems like landing and being a big-body that weighs very little. That said, this character has an insane damage output, pretty rewarding combos, Shadow Ball is insane, stare is a deadly mixup when least expected, BAir and FAir can be extremely oppressive edge guard tools, he has kills confirms such as tipper UTilt into USmash that are pretty solid, his recovery while one of the weaker teleports is still overall a ton better than what other characters have and is a good disadvantage tool.. overall I think the Shadow Cat is one of the more slept on characters in this game, still would put him in High Tier - / B Tier, though.: I've went over the reasons why I think this character has a lot of good in previous posts, but to condense things.. He has very high damage output, momentum in a match does wonders for him, the Pills are a wonderful projectile that can confirm into aerials at higher %'s, Super Sheet is just great, Dr. Tornado > FLUDD any day of the week, his OoS is great, he has Mario's frame data packed into a powerful package.. overall a very solid character. Still don't see him breaking out of mid tier with his tragic recovery and poor mobility, though.: Incineroar is complicated. On one hand, in some of his losing MU's he just looks.. bad. Though the rest of the time (against most of the roster, too) he has a lot going for him and is a beast in his better MU's. Darkest Lariat is an extremely useful tool in a variety of situations due to the armor it has and options it can cover, Alohan Whip is good for obvious reasons, Revenge is fantastic because it discourages camping and can set him up to get cheesy kills at stupid %'s if he gets the right reads with it as it has very good frame data for a counter. His air game is pretty sick. His recovery is not terrible, it's pretty linear and by no means the best, but with a double jump, Side B and Up B all to assist in getting back (with Up-B being hard to contest and a potential kill move, too) I don't see how people put this character down into the bottom tier recovery bin with the likes of the Belmonts and Mac. He has pretty decent combos, very good kill power, great mixups.. really just a lot of good. Though his tragic speed is the #1 thing holding him back, if he weren't the slowest character in the game Incineroar would be a monster and an obvious pick for best superheavy. I still think as-is he's slept on, though.
Overrated:
Fire Bird is a ****ing joke. Same launch frame as Fire Fox at 43 frames, but travels less -- around half of FD while Fox's is around two thirds of it -- and cannot kill outside of gimping or stage spiking. Fire Wolf takes around half the frames to launch compared to Fire Bird and Fire Fox at 18 frames in Ultimate and 23 frames in Brawl, but in Brawl, it had the same travel distance as Fire Bird while in Ultimate, it has slightly less travel distance, but it hits harder allowing it to kill. Brawl butchered Fire Bird from being 64 Fire Fox in Melee to a piece of crap and it has never been changed since.
Good burst options in Smash are moves like Snake's dash attack, Falcon's S4 dash grab, Greninja's dash attack, etc, basically moves that cover a large amount of space quickly, break zones, whiff punish. Wii Fit doesn't really have a move that stands out in this way, though pivot cancel ftilt is pretty good and her dash attack is situationally ok
Don't forget Wolf's dash attack. That one's a real doozy.
Certain characters like
,, and were going to be in the underrated list, but it seems like players like Dabuz are finally catching on to the curve about these characters. Some players are putting Sheik in the upper mid tiers, even a few in the lower high tiers, thanks to her improvements from 3.0.0. While Sheik is notably better after those updates. It doesn't fix the fact that Sheik still has a poor damage output, trouble KO'ing, and having light weight despite having trouble KO'ing. VoiD and Mr.R has dabbled with the character after the buffs, but then radio silence. I still rarely see this character. Whenever VoiD pulls Sheik out in tournament has a surprise counterpick, it usually doesn't do too well. Considering that he is now investing time in Joker, I wonder if we are ever going to see the VoiD Sheik in tourney anymore unless she gets buffed again. I consider her probably in the lower mid tiers. Some people are probably going to be mad at me for putting Wii Fit here. While I consider her a solid character (myself putting her solidly in mid tier), I feel people are overlooking her glaring weaknesses. She still has a lack of midrange options, short reach that can sometime whiff on low profile opponents, and some notable issues escaping disadvantage, all three of these flaws being reoccurring ones from SSB4. Wii Fit as a solo main hasn't really done too much thus so far. We have WaDi that randomly brings her out, but he generally uses R.O.B. more and gets more success with him. I don't think she is really the lower high tier/upper mid tier character that some people are placing her in. While I can see their training room combos be applied in tournaments, and those combos are now indeed getting applied to noticeable effect, the duo is still plagued with numerous issues regardless. The obvious one, but most glaring, is how bad Nana's A.I. is. They fixed some aspects of her A.I. at one point, but she still SD"ing randomly. Outside of this, I feel like they are too easy to separate, from a combination of there being more moves in the game that can separate them, and Nana now taking 1.05x times the damage and knockback from attacks. Other inconsistencies, like how much they gutted forward smash's range, how the edges of Blizzard no longer causes hitstun, how Nana randomly teleports, and how much the opponent can mess with Belay. I know that this looks like a rant on the character, but I think the character's noticeable flaws holds them back from the character most players are seeing them now. Big D does well in his region, but he uses other characters as well. Outside of Big D, ICs haven't made an impact in larger events yet.)() Not sure why some players are putting TLink towards the lower end of mid tier. I know others believe that he is upper mid tier (which is where I generally believe where he is right now), but some of the reasons I have seen to why he is lower mid is kind of silly. I haven't realized at first how much losing MkLeo's secondary antics with the character does to him in terms of perspective. While some players like ESAM also thinks he is underrated, others are more ruthless in their views. I am bit a bit confused why, considering the many things that is going for him (solid frame data, amazing disadvantage, and can randomly latter you although not as much as in SSB4). I consider him around mid tier. In a similar vein to Pit, literally locked away from their best player. Considering that Ranai retired prior to Ultimate's release, I am not sure if he will come back either way, but still. While I personally consider him in the lower end of mid tier (which is where most players put him), I think some players are sort of overlooking the good qualities he brings to the table. The very few who do main him does relatively well in their region.
has good stuff but also possibly the worst frame data in the game. His results have been lacking too. I think he's high but not top tier. is good but his results are largely based on how popular he is. was overrated near the begining but the hype's died down for the most part. His remote bombs aren't as good as YL's bombs because the deal less damage, hurt Link, can be pocketed, can only have one out at a time, require Link to act to detonate so they aren't good in disadvantage and don't start combos. is a polarizing character and often one of the worst MUs for some characters so he's rated as top tier. That's understandable if you struggle vs him but if you don't he's not nearly as oppressive as Pichu. Her hitboxes and lack of burst options really hold her back. She can't force anything. is a scrub killer so he's overrated by casuals but competitive players think he's gimmicky. IMO he's as good as Ganon in mid tier. He has some crazy things like belly armor and 19.2%+ guaranteed of grab but also poor hitboxes and a huge hurtbox. has an amazing grab game most heavies lack, the best air speed of the heavyweights and can chain aerials. His disadvantage is exagerated and while bad, his air speed helps a lot. has huge potential as a counterpick character but everyone ignores him for top tiers or Joker after the patch nerfed them. Fire arrows are one of the best projectiles. Nobody in the West plays him even though he has solid combos and some of the best zoning in the game. was never designed to be a solo character. He's an important part of the Trainer's team, as much as any of them. is not falling off because she's basic. Not with attacks that can hit anywhere in a huge circle around her in 6-8 frames. Her advantage state is one of the most oppressive in the game. If Leo's in a bind he'll always come back to her.
Quoting myself: It looks this does only work when the opponent is indeed airborne, like this Yoshi.
. I guess I've given reasoning for all four characters but I guess it can't hurt to do it again:
are underrated too but I don't really have a huge overarching explanation towards why, I just believe that people kind of underlook them due to them not really making any huge waves and they just kind of write them off as such because their strengths just never seem to resonate with people which is a bit confusing. Especially since Piranha Plant literally has access to one of the top 10 best moves in the game which is kinda sus yet people still claim he's the worst char in the game. But that's probably for another day.
Oh.. oh ****. I've been taking the term 'burst options' the wrong way for literally years.. Welp.
