clowsui
Smash Legend
Wobbuffett is very broken, which is why Mow really doesn't like him lol
You don't even have to predict with him -_-
You don't even have to predict with him -_-
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The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
It's more like putting Encore on Wobbufett was broken so he didn't have to predict anymore lol.
JustKindaBoredUKno
Smash Lord
I've been saying this from the start.....
nothing about this list hinders MK in anyway. It benefits him soo much.
Dumbfounding how people still don't see MK as a problem.
I'd say Shadow Moses Island is taking it a step too far... Pirate ship i can see tho. No more hazardous then Halberd.
In fact, as Mr. E said, I'd place Pirate Ship right alongside Pictochat
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
id like to see the ganoncide rule changed, i mean we eliminate other things from the game if we can to make it more competetive anyway, someone even mentioned that all the tourneys he went to had the hombrew channel in and removed tripping. besides i bet a poll on who takes Ganon/Bowser to tourneys bowser wins by a landslide, and bowser can cide from on and off stage Ganon can only really do his from off, controller port aside, mostly as a "try and gimp me" threat.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
The stage list will be updated soon, yes.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
I don't really agree with everything in this list, and won't use it in my tourneys
1. Why do ppl keep complaining about Lylat, its neutral. Why isn't it.
2. The suicide rule is stupid. Yes I do think it's lame that someone can end the game instantly when both are on last stock, which is why one of my old rules was the winner (in the event of a suicide death) is the battler who had lower percent. I was forced to change it when pretty much EVERYONE hated the rule lol. However, you can't allow one suicide to be ok and not the rest, like ones with Kirby, DDD, and Ganondorf. That makes no sense.
3. Why isn't Rainbow Cruise counterpick?
4. Any specific reason PKMN Stadium 2 is banned?
5. Are you really banning Norfair just cause of Pikachu as you mentioned? Isn't that the whole point of a counterpick stage? (Where the picker is trying to give themselves a slight advantage) This is how it worked in Melee. Plus, he can't do it the whole time because of lava.
6. Why is Jungle Japes banned?
1. Why do ppl keep complaining about Lylat, its neutral. Why isn't it.
2. The suicide rule is stupid. Yes I do think it's lame that someone can end the game instantly when both are on last stock, which is why one of my old rules was the winner (in the event of a suicide death) is the battler who had lower percent. I was forced to change it when pretty much EVERYONE hated the rule lol. However, you can't allow one suicide to be ok and not the rest, like ones with Kirby, DDD, and Ganondorf. That makes no sense.
3. Why isn't Rainbow Cruise counterpick?
4. Any specific reason PKMN Stadium 2 is banned?
5. Are you really banning Norfair just cause of Pikachu as you mentioned? Isn't that the whole point of a counterpick stage? (Where the picker is trying to give themselves a slight advantage) This is how it worked in Melee. Plus, he can't do it the whole time because of lava.
6. Why is Jungle Japes banned?
Daimonster
Smash Journeyman
1: Lylat is a very good R.O.B. stage. Is not neutral for space animals i.e falco, wolf and fox.
2: % dmg done can be miscalculated due to the different stamina amounts of each character in this game.
3: Makes matchups that are 6:4 or better more like 7:3 or worse. Snake vs rob. G&W vs anyone. etc etc.
4: Main platform changes interrupt 1v1 fighting to such an extreme degree that detracts from players fighting each other.
5: Slight advantage vs extreme stage abuse are two different concepts. Extra platforms or a slighty higher roof or horizontal blast zones are examples of slight advantages. Broken invunerabilty on certain parts of stages does not = slight advantage.
6: Again, the same reason Rainbow Cruise is banned. Certain characters get a HUGE bonus simply due to the stage layout.
GwJ
Smash Hero
I don't like the CP list, there are too few of them. I play Brawl for variety, not to know what the counterpick will be because there are so few of them.
Wow...we might as well make Final Destination the only legal stage. Oh wait, it gives projectile users a huge advantage! BANNED!
This rulelist is: anything that is similar to FD/BF.
If it is not similar, it is banned.
If it is not similar, it is banned.
10 bucks says you play Meta Knight, and therefore do not know why counterpicking is important in this game.
Oh!
It adds an element of strategy to the game. If you want 100% RAW SKILL, go play Melee. Brawl is too slow-paced to be a pure fighting game, so taking advantage of the ignorance of your opponent (did you know Toon Link can one hit ko fox/falco and probably some others with bad recoveries on Yoshi's Island at 0%?) makes them have to try harder to learn, and possibly learn more characters.
Really, if the crocodile screws up the opponent, they didn't do their research. Did you know it goes around the stage every 10 seconds? If there is a timer in the game (and tournaments have an 8 minute time) take note of where the crocodile is, and when. If it's in the middle of the stage at 7:05, it will be in the middle at 6:55, 6:45, etc.
Perfect reflexes? Play Melee, or perhaps play Warcraft III/Starcraft. Brawl revolves less around "perfect reflexes" than these games, though it is of course somewhat important.
lol, Meta Knight.
Quoted for truth.
1. Lylat is just plain ********.
3. That's the point of counterpicking, and that "advanced slob picks" rule.
6. read 3
I say you rely too much on Meta Knight to win. Try playing someone that can be counterpicked, and that has really good counterpicks, and see what you think of CPing then.
Or try learning how stages work, so you don't commit suicide and then blame it on your opponent. I play people that do that all the time, and it makes me laugh.
Wobby
Smash Apprentice
The people that are happy rely on MetaKnight spammning Tornado to win.
Wait, who are you, Skyflyer? Do you actually go to tournaments?
Fine. Maybe 100% raw skill isn't the right way to put it, but it's a FIGHTING game. Not an OLOL, I'M GONNA TRY TO THROW MY FOE INTO THE LASER ON HALBERD TO DO MORE DAMAGE game. In most fighting games, the stages are nothing like most of the ones in SSB. They actually force you to fight than to look at the stage all the time.
I've played in one online tourney.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
if someone trying to bunt you into an obvious hazard, then it shouldn't be that hard to avoid it lol. especially since you play MK you have no real stage disadvantage.
Um, if you play "most fighting games," why the hell are you playing Smash looking for similarities? None of the Smash games are "most fighting games," making comparisons to "most fighting games" in anything beyond the basic mechanics and victory condition would be stupid.
Wobby
Smash Apprentice
Learn how to play someone other than Very Top tier.
Levitas
the moon
learn to not get angry when people use good characters, mr. I only play low tier.
Now can we PLEASE get back to saying pointless things again?
Hoser
Smash Ace
Wow, So many stages banned. My four favorites are banned on this list -_-
D
Deleted member
Guest
The rule list is:
any stage that potentially breaks or ruins game play is banned. There is a reason for every single stage.
You keep posting stuff like this, but you aren't even pretending to reason out my conclusions, nor are you offering anything better. This is part of why I want Hylian to post his rule set so bad, so at least someone is trying to fix the problem besides me and Marc.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
G@W loses advantages, MK stays the same, or actually benifits cause GG is banned, and Falco im guessing remains the same minus japes.
Wobby
Smash Apprentice
I dont just play low tier, I also main as G&W, but this rule set is hurting low tier more than anyother characters.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Actually, on relative terms, it helps the low tier characters. It's the high tier characters that are able to exploit most of the abusable tactics in this game, not the high tiers. This rule set eliminates broken tactics, thus favoring low tier characters.
I'm sure Bowser players will be thrilled to be able to fight DDD with these rules.
What about release infinites on Wario? Might wanna ban those too. >_>
D
Deleted member
Guest
I've been asking people to PM me all known infinites, his included. When I update the rule set, I'll add them.
I don't know wario's, PM me an explanation or a link to one?
Bowser and D3 have release infinites on Wario I know for sure. Every other character has release attacks on Wario, but those shouldn't be banned.
Mr.E
Smash Lord
IIRC, Bowser has grab-release combos on almost everyone in the game, as he actually has a faster recovery time from release than other characters. His is not unique to Wario.
As far as Wario himself is concerned, I didn't think anyone but Yoshi (and maybe a couple others) had release infinites on him. I'm pretty sure Bowser and Dedede don't, although the latter does get a free USmash. But Marth gets a free whatever-he-wants off on Lucas and Ness, anyone that gets force-jump released often gets comboed out of it, Bowser grab-release combos everyone but DK I think, so... *shrug* Not infinites, who cares?
At any rate, we're still ignoring the game design in Bowser's case; it certainly wasn't players who decided that controller port would decide the outcome of the match in this case! However, everyone seems to agree that it's a dumb design choice and so we've decided that Bowser should just always win instead of win/tie. Why shaft Ganon simply because the game decides the outcome of his suicide kill in an equally dumb manner, different or not? Ganon has the least abusable suicide kill in the cast anyway (then never wins when he DOES do it!) PLUS doubles as an otherwise viable recovery.
I didn't say anything about Pirate Ship, although it's like Top 2 best music in the game.
But SSB isn't a traditional fighting game series. Players don't have a set life bar, "combos" aren't merely a random sequence of button presses arbitrarily assigned by the game developers to link attacks together, and stage choice is a highly relevant factor in a fight. Playing the stage better than your opponent is a perfectly viable skill. Are the wall combos and ring outs in other fighters lame too? ...Yeah, they are. But it illustrates a certain level of stage abuse we've already come to accept. To "call" SSB on it while ignoring its existence in other fighters is, well, ignorant.
i.e. More active listening, less elitist douchebaggery.
As far as Wario himself is concerned, I didn't think anyone but Yoshi (and maybe a couple others) had release infinites on him. I'm pretty sure Bowser and Dedede don't, although the latter does get a free USmash. But Marth gets a free whatever-he-wants off on Lucas and Ness, anyone that gets force-jump released often gets comboed out of it, Bowser grab-release combos everyone but DK I think, so... *shrug* Not infinites, who cares?
Fair enough... though not really. It's not fair to Ganon or his players. He never wins with his suicide, so choosing him is a losing proposition (regarding this) no matter what. Controller port johns are settled using RPS or coin flip, a Bowser player still has a fair chance at win or not-win and they'll know which one they get before choosing their character. I have the same 50/50 with Ganon, except it's tie/lose instead of win/tie (as Bowser) and I can't tell which one will occur until it actually happens. Even following the game rules, Bowser is better off because he knows beforehand whether he should even attempt a suicide kill, where Ganon could chance a "tie" suicide kill if he's behind and end up losing anyway.
At any rate, we're still ignoring the game design in Bowser's case; it certainly wasn't players who decided that controller port would decide the outcome of the match in this case! However, everyone seems to agree that it's a dumb design choice and so we've decided that Bowser should just always win instead of win/tie. Why shaft Ganon simply because the game decides the outcome of his suicide kill in an equally dumb manner, different or not? Ganon has the least abusable suicide kill in the cast anyway (then never wins when he DOES do it!) PLUS doubles as an otherwise viable recovery.
Eh, what WOULD hinder MK? ;/ I'd say SMI since he doesn't kill vertically very well, but even he has a wall infinite...
I didn't say anything about Pirate Ship, although it's like Top 2 best music in the game.
In most traditional fighting games, the stage is merely a background presented for aesthetic appeal. Sometimes it's a minor part of the fight, especially when you get into 3D fighters (size becomes a factor and some fighters do Ring Outs), but for the most part they don't do a whole lot. There's no platforms, no "dodging" in the same sense the SSB series has, the rules of attack priority are more discrete.
But SSB isn't a traditional fighting game series. Players don't have a set life bar, "combos" aren't merely a random sequence of button presses arbitrarily assigned by the game developers to link attacks together, and stage choice is a highly relevant factor in a fight. Playing the stage better than your opponent is a perfectly viable skill. Are the wall combos and ring outs in other fighters lame too? ...Yeah, they are. But it illustrates a certain level of stage abuse we've already come to accept. To "call" SSB on it while ignoring its existence in other fighters is, well, ignorant.
Well hey, we don't all need to post a gigantic new topic discerning our personal preferred rule set in order to "fix" the "problem." It's pretty much lose-lose for us non-SBR members anyway, as anyone not already well-known isn't going to be taken seriously in the first place.
i.e. More active listening, less elitist douchebaggery.
D
Deleted member
Guest
As I know it, most grab release infinites are not infinite if you do the aerial release, then they only become chaingrabs to the edge. I only want to eliminate all true infinites.
If I'm wrong, someone correct me.
If I'm wrong, someone correct me.
Wobby
Smash Apprentice
Umbreon, here are what I feel should be the stages Neutral and CP.
Neutral should be FD, BF,SV,YI, and Lylat. Most do not like Lylat like myself, but if the rule was to do a strike out rule, then if you really do not like Lylat strike it out. Only other option would be to make Lylat and YI CPs and still do strike out rule, since you need an odd # for strike out.
CPs should be
Delfino
Halberd
Pokémon Stadium 1
Brinstar
Corneria
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Green Greens
Now maybe I missed a CP that most people like, for example I left out PS2 for do we really need two Pokemon Stadium stages, and PS1 is much more neutral. I feel for the most part, these stages are favorable toward certain characters, but nothing too overwhelming. You should know what stages are good and bad with your character, and make sure you ban them, this again creates more strategy and knowledge into the game.
Also the suicide rule should be if you ganon/kirby/DDD/Bowser/Wario/Diddy/DKcide (apologies if I missed one) and both only had one stock remaining, the winner should be the one who suicided.
Neutral should be FD, BF,SV,YI, and Lylat. Most do not like Lylat like myself, but if the rule was to do a strike out rule, then if you really do not like Lylat strike it out. Only other option would be to make Lylat and YI CPs and still do strike out rule, since you need an odd # for strike out.
CPs should be
Delfino
Halberd
Pokémon Stadium 1
Brinstar
Corneria
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Green Greens
Now maybe I missed a CP that most people like, for example I left out PS2 for do we really need two Pokemon Stadium stages, and PS1 is much more neutral. I feel for the most part, these stages are favorable toward certain characters, but nothing too overwhelming. You should know what stages are good and bad with your character, and make sure you ban them, this again creates more strategy and knowledge into the game.
Also the suicide rule should be if you ganon/kirby/DDD/Bowser/Wario/Diddy/DKcide (apologies if I missed one) and both only had one stock remaining, the winner should be the one who suicided.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
PS2 changes tend to favor air fighters highly like the one where you float around for a while, and then the treadmill one isn't exactly the best things since unless you've got multiple jumps or are positioned in the middle of the stage at that time you'll keep sliding to the edge. i thought it was banned normally anyway cause its effect alter the playing field more than PS1.
most things on pictochat are benign but its hazards can spawn on you and they are very damaging like the skateboard. or if you were landing and the flower spawned on you. random walls, and some things like the whale can give an instan shield to a camper. i say iffy CP/ban stage for that.
most things on pictochat are benign but its hazards can spawn on you and they are very damaging like the skateboard. or if you were landing and the flower spawned on you. random walls, and some things like the whale can give an instan shield to a camper. i say iffy CP/ban stage for that.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
1. How is it not neutral for them. Cause their recoveries work different? That's part of the character. And if it's too hard for them to recover on the stage and it's completely broken, then it should be banned instead of cp. The ship tilts slightly sometimes, that's it. Just keep an eye on the stage to make sure you know where to recover to.
2. Stamina ammounts wha? I meant in my old rule just look at what %s each character were at when the suicide move was done. But it's not even a rule anymore so who cares. I'm just wodnerin why Bowser gets the ok but Kirby and GDorf don't.
3. 6:4 to 7:3 isn't that big a change lol. It's a counterpick stage, it gives an additional slight advantage to one person. Plus, it's similar enough to as it was in Melee. A lot of people didn't like it, but it was still legal (and used to be neutral if you remember)
4. Like the same doesn't happen on Stadium 1 especially with the rock formation? Same deal with Stadium 1 in Melee, which is neutral. All the crazy changes effects everyone equally. (Except for Ice Climbers on Ice stage)
5. I've yet to see any Pikachu abuse this on Norfair, and other characters can also get the similar effect, if not benefit even more like tether characters, or GaW. There's still the fire though which prevents it a lot of time. I just don't see how it's a huge stage abuse. It's a good counterpick for a Pikachu.
6. One of the biggest thing about Japes is the extremely large ceiling, which classifies as what you said was an ok counterpick in step 5. And don't talk about the klap trap cause it's not even as bad as it was in Melee.
Bottom line what seems to have happened, is that there's no flat line official source to make the ruleset themselves like there was MLG in Melee. In Melee, MLG made the rules, and no one had a choice but to go along with it, and learned to accept it.
In Brawl, everyone's making their own rulesets, and many ppl are trying to get rid of stages they simply find annoying. So an Olimar might not like Rainbow Cruise... Let's ban it! I don't like some of the special effects on Stadium 2... Let's ban it! This new idea of a ruleset doesn't even favor counterpicks as every cp stage is so safe and monitored that there might as well just be like 7 or 8 neutral stages and call it at that with no cp's.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Actually, the MLG rules were largely based on the SBR rules, when MLG Staff came into the back room asking for a standard rule set. This time, the new owner of smashboards from MLG said we needed a new stage set, so I made one.
People, the whole point of a CP stage is to give a character an advantage over his or her opponent. What's the point of CPing if I don't get an advantage? "Neutral" stages still favor certain characters, just not to the degree of CP stages, but that's why they are CP stages, not Neutral stages.
FD heavily favors fast moving characters with fast, effective projectiles over large, slow moving characters. (i.e. pit/zelda/ROB/pikachu against Ganon, Bowser, DK) They can force their opponent to approach and easily rack up 25% before their opponent can reach them.
Battlefield gives an advantage to characters with good range on their attacks. Marth and Snake have a huge advantage on this stage partly because they can stand in the middle of the stage and hit anyone that's not standing on the very edge (about 30% of the length of the bottom platform).
I can easily find a petty reason to ban every single stage, BUT THAT's NOT THE POINT! The reason you are banning these stages are really, really bad...
Corneria??? Yes, that's one of G&W's best stages, BUT THAT'S WHY WE COUNTERPICK IT. That lasers from the small aircraft don't do crap and getting the laser from the big one is suicidal.
Rainbow Cruise??? There's nothing random to this stage...it moves in a pattern. If your an Oli use and a G&W CP's this stage, use a different character. If you can use more than one character, you bound to get screwed over no matter what.
Pictochat?! Um...There are hazards, but they barely inflict any damage/knockback at all...
Pokemon Stadium 2?!?! Can someone explain to me why this is banned?
FD heavily favors fast moving characters with fast, effective projectiles over large, slow moving characters. (i.e. pit/zelda/ROB/pikachu against Ganon, Bowser, DK) They can force their opponent to approach and easily rack up 25% before their opponent can reach them.
Battlefield gives an advantage to characters with good range on their attacks. Marth and Snake have a huge advantage on this stage partly because they can stand in the middle of the stage and hit anyone that's not standing on the very edge (about 30% of the length of the bottom platform).
I can easily find a petty reason to ban every single stage, BUT THAT's NOT THE POINT! The reason you are banning these stages are really, really bad...
Corneria??? Yes, that's one of G&W's best stages, BUT THAT'S WHY WE COUNTERPICK IT. That lasers from the small aircraft don't do crap and getting the laser from the big one is suicidal.
Rainbow Cruise??? There's nothing random to this stage...it moves in a pattern. If your an Oli use and a G&W CP's this stage, use a different character. If you can use more than one character, you bound to get screwed over no matter what.
Pictochat?! Um...There are hazards, but they barely inflict any damage/knockback at all...
Pokemon Stadium 2?!?! Can someone explain to me why this is banned?
OmegaXF
Smash Ace
Nice rules