COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[kupo15]

Huh. I hated the momentum code last time, but I'm really liking it now.

Sonic's a bit unwieldy as of now though. If you want to short hop something and hit your opponent, they have to be on the other side of the stage or right next to you. xD

Pretty much what GPDP said though. >_>
I can't really put it better.

lol once again. Its your fault if you can't control sonic.

I tested pws 1 liner code and this code does not have the skid momentum. It doesn't include everyone though.
048669D8 60000000

So yea:

No skid momentum
Affect only non momentum altering specials
Affect ganon and falco

 

[spunit262]

Alright, so far, I'm really liking the code, bar a few things that still need addressing.

The momentum capture and deceleration works just like it should. I noticed that the thing I pointed out last night about how in Melee, doing an aerial prior to the momentum loss made you keep the momentum going for a little bit longer still applies. Of course, this results in you gaining more distance due to the sliding, but we're probably gonna incorporate friction soon, so that's a moot point. Plus, it actually increases your options, as you can choose to perform the aerial right after you decelerate, and thus hit a closer target, or you can try it right before and fast fall it for a target that is farther away.

Specials such as Ganon's murder choke still get extra momentum applied to them, so we should look into that.

You sure about that?

Also, momentum still gets stored, which means that if you stop after a dash, then jump either forward or backward, you'll apply the extra momentum. This shouldn't happen. Another thing that bugs me is that you cannot dash, then immediately jump backwards to fake an opponent out. You launch forward at all times.

But yeah, you're getting closer, spunit. Awesome work so far. What works, works amazing.

I have an idea how to fix that, but I still don't have any for ROB side-B (other than singling it out).

Momentum Capture try8 [Phantom wings, spunit262]
048668AC 60000000
C28669D8 0000000A
C04283D8 FC811040
41860040 C0020008
40A40008 FC000050
807D007C 80630038
2C03000B 40A2001C
C05B0018 FC420032
FC011040 4C002182
40800008 FC201090
2C030022 40800008
D03B0008 00000000
045A9328 3F4CCCCD

I forgot what I fixed in this one

Edit: Ganon and Falco are affected it just doesn't look like it a 80%

 

[trojanpooh]

You sure about that?



I have an idea how to fix that, but I still don't have any for ROB side-B (other than singling it out).

Momentum Capture try8 [Phantom wings, spunit262]
048668AC 60000000
C28669D8 0000000A
C04283D8 FC811040
41860040 C0020008
40A40008 FC000050
807D007C 80630038
2C03000B 40A2001C
C05B0018 FC420032
FC011040 4C002182
40800008 FC201090
2C030022 40800008
D03B0008 00000000
045A9328 3F4CCCCD

I forgot what I fixed in this one

Do we really want to "fix" ROBs B>?

 

[kupo15]

Edit: Ganon and Falco are affected it just doesn't look like it a 80%

I tried using float 1 and there was no affect whatsoever. Ganon should fly across FD but he gets nothing

EDIT: NVm

EDIT: I can't tell what changed.

The skid momentum is still there. Can this be fixed? Pw was able to not have skid momentum. Can't this code shut off and reset momentum to zero when it enters the halt animation? (005 Stop???)

The momentum code kicks in when your not in the "003 Dash" animation

 

[Blank Mauser]

Kupo, I think the main difference between Spunit's and PW's codes is that Spunit is storing the momentum somewhere before telling the game when to apply it. I'm sure he used this method to fix some things(Momentum on B-Moves, off ledges, being able to apply it to everyone even those with momentum canceling jumps) and such and thats why it still gets skid momentum. The momentum is still stored when you stop even if you don't use it.

 

[kupo15]

it should be possible to empty that momentum or set it to 0 when a different action id occurs. I don't mind the specials being affected atm, I would just love for the momentum to be 0 when you enter the skid animation. It makes sonic really hard to control when you jump really far and not expecting it

 

[GPDP]

Kupo, I think the main difference between Spunit's and PW's codes is that Spunit is storing the momentum somewhere before telling the game when to apply it. I'm sure he used this method to fix some things(Momentum on B-Moves, off ledges, being able to apply it to everyone even those with momentum canceling jumps) and such and thats why it still gets skid momentum. The momentum is still stored when you stop even if you don't use it.

Well, that's a problem. The momentum gets stored during the dashing animation, and should ONLY apply when jumping FORWARD right out of the dashing animation. Not during the skid, not when jumping backwards, and certainly not when performing a normal jump. Only when jumping forward from a dash.

I should note that PW's code did it right in this regard. You could dash, then jump backwards as if you hadn't dashed at all. But then again, that code didn't seem to store momentum. It just pretty much took off a flag or something.

 

[Shell]

Spunit, I tried "try 7" and I had a suggestion unrelated to the B-move fixes of "try 8"

An important feature of Melee's momentum was that if you ran, jumped, and then held backwards, you would scale back the momentum, but still have a boost vs. a standstill jump.

Since everyone loves to use Falcon as an example, right now if you run, jump, and nair, you will fly through opponents. In melee, if you ran, jumped, naired, and then held backwards you would slow down so both of your hits would connect.

This feature would be veeery beneficial to sonic so that he regains a certain degree of control.

If you have the will / time to implement this before tonight I will playtest the balls off it with a friend.

Thanks for the work so far, it's so much fun.

 

[spunit262]

Momentum Capture V9 [Phantom wings, spunit262]
048668AC 60000000
C28669D8 0000000C
C04283D8 FC811040
41860048 C0020008
40A40008 FC000050
807D007C A0830006
80630038 2C040004
40A2002C 2C03000B
40A2001C C05B0018
FC420032 FC011040
4C002182 40800008
FC201090 2C030022
40800008 D03B0008
60000000 00000000
C277F798 00000003
2C1C000A 40A00008
B39E0006 7C1C0000
60000000 00000000
045A9328 3F4CCCCD

ROB's side-B now changes depending on whether you where running when you were last on the ground.

 

[Shell]

Spunit, you might include a version number in the title -- I've seen a lot of versions floating around.

Also, any estimate on the feasibility of my request? Thanks!

 

[GPDP]

It's getting longer and longer lol. But it's a good thing you're indulging us despite the constant nagging.

Did you do anything about the momentum being applied in situations other than when dashing and jumping forward?

 

[kupo15]

great job spunit. No more skid momentum but there is one flaw. There is no momentum in the initial dash. It needs to apply for:
003 Dash
004 Run

I think its a side effect of trying to fix the specials. Can you take that line out of it? I think it will be near perfect then.

Id much rather have specials be affected then to not have momentum on the initial dash

 

[spunit262]

Spunit, you might include a version number in the title -- I've seen a lot of versions floating around.

Also, any estimate on the feasibility of my request? Thanks!

Done, and I think the game already does that.

 

[Shell]

I'll check out your newer versions, but "try 7" didn't allow for it.

 

[GPDP]

How about the momentum storage, kupo? Do you still rocket out of backward jumps and walking jumps?

 

[kupo15]

How about the momentum storage, kupo? Do you still rocket out of backward jumps and walking jumps?

Nope. No more rocketing backwards after a dash cancel. All we need is to have momentum applied at the initial dash as well as the run. If that means specials are affected at all times, then so be it for the time being

 

[spunit262]

Momentum Capture V10 [Phantom wings, spunit262]
048668AC 60000000
C28669D8 0000000D
C04283D8 FC811040
41860054 C0020008
40A40008 FC000050
807D007C A0830006
80630038 2C040003
4182000C 2C040004
40A2002C 2C03000B
40A2001C C05B0018
FC420032 FC011040
4C002182 40800008
FC201090 2C030022
40800008 D03B0008
60000000 00000000
C277F798 00000003
2C1C000A 40A00008
B39E0006 7C1C0000
60000000 00000000
045A9328 3F4CCCCD

 

[GPDP]

Sweet. We're so close, I can feel it. And it feels good.

 

[kupo15]

nice it works very well. I'm disappointed RAR lost its momentum though...

 

[spunit262]

nice it works very well. I'm disappointed RAR lost its momentum though...

Reverse Ariel Reverse?

 

[CountKaiser]

Reverse aerial rush.

You know, dash, then tap the control stick back then forward and A to do a bair forwards.

 

[GPDP]

nice it works very well. I'm disappointed RAR lost its momentum though...

Yeah, I noticed that too. Also, sometimes you still launch forward when trying to jump backwards, and sometimes you don't. I suppose it depends on how soon after you stop running you try to jump backwards.

btw, that ROB fix thing also applies to Ganon. If you simply jump and use his side B, you go forward only a bit. But if you run and then do the same thing, you'll get a lot of distance once you grab the opponent. I actually kinda like this lol. It's a nice Ganon buff.

Haha, I even discovered a neat little combo with this. If you're at the middle of FD, and perfom a dtilt on the opponent at around 80%, chances are you can run, jump, then side B grab your opponent, and you'll Ganoncide, clearing half of FD. It's awesome.

 

[kupo15]

the only problem I see with the code is not being able to slow yourself down fast enough. If you take sonic and jump, you stay at that speed until you begin to fall. We need to find someway of manually slowing yourself down faster like in melee. I "think" pws 1 liner code did this.

Out of curiosity, why did you take momentum from a different place than pw did spunit?

 

[GPDP]

Um, try pressing back after jumping. Works for me.

 

[kupo15]

i think it needs to be stronger

 

[spunit262]

the only problem I see with the code is not being able to slow yourself down fast enough. If you take sonic and jump, you stay at that speed until you begin to fall. We need to find someway of manually slowing yourself down faster like in melee. I "think" pws 1 liner code did this.

Out of curiosity, why did you take momentum from a different place than pw did spunit?

That was just for that one version.

 

[kupo15]

so does this version take momentum from the same place as pws? Besides removing walk offs and affecting all characters, how differently is yours coded compared to pws?

 

[GPDP]

Hmm, looks like some dash attacks and dash usmashes store momentum in such a manner that jumping either forwards or backwards out of them will cause you to retain the dash momentum. Try it with Falcon's running usmash and Sonic's dash attack.

 

[spunit262]

so does this version take momentum from the same place as pws? Besides removing walk offs and affecting all characters, how differently is yours coded compared to pws?

Not for the initial jump, because of Sonic and others, but for all other parts yes.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Hmm, looks like some dash attacks and dash usmashes store momentum in such a manner that jumping either forwards or backwards out of them will cause you to retain the dash momentum. Try it with Falcon's running usmash and Sonic's dash attack.

I've noticed this too. Its most noticeable when you dash attack with Sonic then Jump back Bair. Its like a secret RAR lol.

 

[kupo15]

spunit is this possible?

SHell

Spunit, I tried "try 7" and I had a suggestion unrelated to the B-move fixes of "try 8"

An important feature of Melee's momentum was that if you ran, jumped, and then held backwards, you would scale back the momentum, but still have a boost vs. a standstill jump.

Since everyone loves to use Falcon as an example, right now if you run, jump, and nair, you will fly through opponents. In melee, if you ran, jumped, naired, and then held backwards you would slow down so both of your hits would connect.

This feature would be veeery beneficial to sonic so that he regains a certain degree of control.

If you have the will / time to implement this before tonight I will playtest the balls off it with a friend.

Thanks for the work so far, it's so much fun.

So is it possible to have "holding back" affect the acceleration you get from the momentum and it only works when this code is active?

Pw made a super falcon code which changes the normal air control for falcon. Can you emulate this on a global scale and apply it only when the momentum code is working?

 

[B.W.]

DS, we are not talking about the special move. We are talking about those players who complain that they can't control him in the air while jumping from the momentum. Its your fault if you can't handle sonics air momentum speed.

Here is a big question. Should we have air dodges cancel momentum or should it be applied to it?

Very much late, but at that time actually was talking about the special move.

I don't mind if the rest of Sonic is super fast, since that's how it should be, but jumping out of spin dash needs to have a cancelled momentum.

 

[Blank Mauser]

yeah Shell pretty much has it right. Everyone is thinking about lowering momentum when really the only reason its acting up is because Brawl isn't built for it and you have less control. Better de-acceleration would help a lot in this regard.

The code has come a long way, and it changes the game so much. I'd rather not see its potential go untapped by nerfing momentum on faster characters. =(

Edit: I think if holding backwards put you back to regular momentum instantly as if you airdodged it would solve all problems.

 

[leafgreen386]

yeah Shell pretty much has it right. Everyone is thinking about lowering momentum when really the only reason its acting up is because Brawl isn't built for it and you have less control. Better de-acceleration would help a lot in this regard.

The code has come a long way, and it changes the game so much. I'd rather not see its potential go untapped by nerfing momentum on faster characters. =(

Edit: I think if holding backwards put you back to regular momentum instantly as if you airdodged it would solve all problems.

Frick no. That would just be terribly awkward. I don't have a problem with the game's current acceleration, which gets the job done. The momentum is just too much at 80%. Period. At lower values, it works just fine. We don't need to start looking into ways for a faster way to accelerate to a lower speed when the current system works just fine.

 

[Blank Mauser]

even at 70% jumping with fast characters always makes them go a certain length no matter how much you hold back. That to me, feels awkward. It wouldn't be awkward slowing down because it'd just be like reverting back to normal Brawl momentum when you really want to. If you want it to be more gradual you can ask for that, but lower values isn't the right way to go in my opinion. The control just wouldn't be the same.

Right now its awkward because its like you're being shot off as you jump. Brawl's current system isn't meant to handle aerial momentum and likewise it doesn't control it right. Slowing everyone down so it almost doesn't apply is just a band-aid fix, and doesn't fix the true problem.

 

[spunit262]

Do you want to try character specific values?

 

[kupo15]

I don't like reverting back to your old air speed at all. That would be great spunit.

We are thinking three groups:

1. sonic
2. falcon
3. everyone else

 

[Blank Mauser]

Hmm, looks like some dash attacks and dash usmashes store momentum in such a manner that jumping either forwards or backwards out of them will cause you to retain the dash momentum. Try it with Falcon's running usmash and Sonic's dash attack.

I'd also like to note this affects Foxtrots too. Or at least Sonic's. Tap one direction, then stop. Jump backwards and you go flying lol.

 

[kupo15]

I'd also like to note this affects Foxtrots too. Or at least Sonic's. Tap one direction, then stop. Jump backwards and you go flying lol.

I never found this in the latest version

 

[GPDP]

I don't like reverting back to your old air speed at all. That would be great spunit.

We are thinking three groups:

1. sonic
2. falcon
3. everyone else

What's wrong with that? I think it works amazingly well now. Though Marth goes a bit too far lol.