COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[SketchHurricane]

You guys need your own forum. That way all the people interested in Brawl + could have their own place to go where people that play normal Brawl aren't telling them how bad Brawl + is.

This keeps getting suggested. I think we need put in the FAQ why we can't have a sub-forum and why it's in our best interests not to make a board.

 

[Revven]

whoever owns those 0w1n vs leafgreen matches have some really really funky grav on..

It's just 1.1 fallspeed (downwards gravity)... what are you talking about with "funky gravity"? Everything felt normal and played normally like it should on 1.1 fallspeed. :|

Anyway, last three matches.

0WN1N (Fox) VS. leafgreen386 (Sheik)
0WN1N (Wario) VS. leafgreen386 (Sheik)
0WN1N (Wario) VS. leafgreen386 (Ganondorf)

^Watch the Wario ones, they are amaaaaazinggggg (for me anyway).

 

[Almas]

PW Merger Code [PW, Almas, 103 Lines]
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
32000000 0000001C
025A9310 00000001
32000001 0000000F
025A9312 00000001
36000001 00000032
9221000F 00000000
E2000001 00000000
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
92210006 00000014
92210007 00000014
92210008 00000068
92210005 00000070 
92210002 0000007C 
92210003 00000018
92210009 00000070 
9221000A 0000007C
9221000B 00000014
9001000E 00000000 
58010000 000000C4
9221000C 00000010
4A000000 805A0100
9221000D 00000000
88A0000C 0000000D
4A00100A 00000000
30000036 00000018
4A00100B 00000000
9221000D 00000040
8890000D 0000000C
9421000D 00000040
E2000001 00000000
4800100E 00000008
20001840 0000001D
14017FB0 4F000000
20001841 0000001E
14016300 4F000000
20001841 0000001F
14011124 4F000000
E2000001 00000000 
4800100E 0000007C
30000038 00000074
86000006 00000040
86910006 [COLOR="Yellow"]40800000[/COLOR]
E2000001 00000000
4800100E 0000007C 
30000038 00000005
4A001008 00000000
3400003C BF266666
4A001007 00000000
14000040 4F000000
E2000002 00000000
4800100E 0000007C
285A9312 FFFE0001
58010000 0000002C
92210004 00000004
4A001002 00000000
C078172C 0000000B
9421FF80 BC410008
3C808000 60841808
80A40008 80C4000C
80E40010 C0060010
C026001C FC000840
40810014 890700D4
7108007F 990700D4
4800000C 890700D5
990700D4 B8410008
38210080 4E800020
60000000 00000000
34000038 00000111
E2000002 00000000
4800100E 0000007C
285A9310 FFFE0001
34000038 00000042
36000038 00000049 
4A001009 00000000 
58010000 00000024 
58010000 0000000C 
1400001C 00000088 
14000018 00000088 
E2000003 00000000
4800100E 0000007C
30000038 00000073
4A001005 00000000
58010000 00000020
92210005 0000001C
86310005 FFFFFFF7
E2000001 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

Okay, stamina should be fixed now. Use the same ASM codes as previous.

Contains:
NAS
Pokémon Trainer Infinite Stamina
Lagless Edges
Dash Cancelling
Aerial Lag Reduction
Hitstun
Triple Jump Glitch Fix

I agree, we need a place of our own. If noone else does, I'll work on it once I get through my checklist. Exams on Tuesday, then I'm sorted.

 

[trojanpooh]

Whoever is working on the jump momentum code, you should keep in mind that Jiggs may get shafted if you don't exclude her from the mix. I'm not trying to tell you how to do what you do, I'm just trying to help. Sorry if this came off as rude but I just don't want any trouble with my main.

 

[Almas]

Why do you think she would suffer from the code?

 

[trojanpooh]

Because I would think if people keep their ground momentum when they jump, they would also in turn keep there poor ground momentum if they are slow. I could be misunderstanding the way this would work, but since Jiggs is so slow on the ground but faster in the air, I just figured she would end up getting the short end of the stick when jump physics are changed up.

 

[Almas]

She would get the short end of the stick, yes. But it wouldn't actually make her any weaker so much as making every other character stronger.

At the moment, when you jump your horizontal velocity is set to 0 (I need to confirm this, but I'm fairly confident). My plan is to find the exact line of code which controls this, and in its place set the horizontal velocity to a constant*their current horizontal velocity. Of course, the value can't be too large (it'll probably settle at or just below 1), otherwise people like sonic will go flying off the map every time they dash jump.

 

[trojanpooh]

Oh okay so it will be added to the current system (I know not as simply as (jump constant) + (momentum) but whatever? I can live with that, thanks for the explanation. Just out of curiosity, how are you doing with that? Do you feel like your making progress or like your stuck? I'm not trying to rush you, its just that this kind of stuff interests me, and if you didn't need hardware to make up the codes well, I'd probably be in there too making (far inferior) codes, or at least trying my hardest to help.

 

[Almas]

To be truthful, I haven't gotten started. I have exams to prepare for.

 

[Team Giza]

Wouldn't this code just make faster characters even better and not do anything to slower characters? Aren't the faster characters already better for the most part?

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Wouldn't this code just make faster characters even better and not do anything to slower characters? Aren't the faster characters already better for the most part?

depends. "slower" characters such as DK and charizard have some of the faster running speeds.

 

[Team Giza]

I meant characters with slow run speeds.

 

[CyberGlitch]

Yes, this is precisely the case. I'm not sure if those involved are as concerned for character balance when it comes to increasing game speed.

Perhaps character specific dash speeds would alleviate this, but probably not, since heavy characters' slow moves don't benefit as much from increased dash speed.

Then again, I suppose you could compare it to SB64 or SSBM, and make an argument that it benefits everyone.


Good luck on exams Almas!

 

[Kix]

What is Melee's buffer system frames? Is there really anything you can't do on say 2-3 frames that you can on 1 or 0? I already know you can't do immediate moves from 0 frames, so is there any point and making it more strict for no reason?

 

[leafgreen386]

What is Melee's buffer system frames? Is there really anything you can't do on say 2-3 frames that you can on 1 or 0? I already know you can't do immediate moves from 0 frames, so is there any point and making it more strict for no reason?

Melee has no buffer.

And 2 and 3 buffer are glitchy with our current code. So far 1 and 10 buffer are the only values we've found not to have glitches. Anything between them can cause you to randomly repeat actions, while 0 buffer doesn't let you do instant aerials for some asinine reason. That said, I would enjoy a buffer of 2 or 3 if we could get the glitches fixed.

 

[Osi]

I meant characters with slow run speeds.

It will help all characters, the only thing is it will help the ones with fast run speeds more. This is a feature from previous smash games that adds a lot to the ground and air game. The ability to jump further out off dash dances gives more reason to use it. It also adds more variety to the air game by having to use it for certain entry/connections. Right now there isn't a reason to dash and jump really. This is one of the rare codes that could add speed without breaking things in the game. You don't have the control with a dash jump like a dash because of the limited options and commitment to the move, so it will not break tech chasing as bad as dash speed does. I am really anticipating this code.

I would love for RAR to carry over the speed for DK! There are countless other examples too where slow/big characters gain a ton from this type of code.

I fully admit that this code will help sonic more than the rest, and it scales down as you move down the run speed list.

 

[trojanpooh]

Good luck on your exams. I hope you do well, but also can't wait to see what you can do to the jumping mechanics. You've been a huge asset to Brawl+. Thanks for everything you've done/will do!

 

[Team Giza]

Can we try to think of something to buff slow characters eventually? It seems like we just keep buffing the faster ones more and more.

 

[Osi]

Can we try to think of something to buff slow characters eventually? It seems like we just keep buffing the faster ones more and more.

I'd argue that ALC buffed the slow characters much more than the fast as it removes more frames from most their moves. You can also say that the hitstun did a ton for them too. Characters like ganon/charizard/DK/ike/link gained a lot of combos and viability from hitstun.

Fast characters got a lot of combos, but they had combos before (or at least moves connecting fast enough it is hard to escape). The slow characters which lacked combos got some nasty ones with the hitstun.

I'd also say that level freeze on wario is a big counter pick addition for slow characters with low % horizontal kills. The stage is small limiting the space fast characters can showcase their mobility in.

Slow characters are normally slower to limit them due to low % kill moves, high damage moves, and harder to KO due to weight. The ability to combo these massive damage moves during stun, and even combo into low % kill moves adds a ton to their gameplay.

 

[leafgreen386]

I'd also say that level freeze on wario is a big counter pick addition for slow characters with low % horizontal kills. The stage is small limiting the space fast characters can showcase their mobility in.

Melee fox would like to have a word with you. On smaller stages fast characters are even more dangerous since you can't get any breathing room against them.

 

[Osi]

Melee fox would like to have a word with you. On smaller stages fast characters are even more dangerous since you can't get any breathing room against them.

This is true, but didn't melee falcon have more of an advantage on wide levels? I guess it's more of a matter if the fast character has vertical or horizontal based combos. Good point though as fox/falco did well on small ones for the most part.

 

[Team Giza]

Characters like ganon/charizard/DK/ike/link gained a lot of combos and viability from hitstun.

Slow characters are normally slower to limit them due to low % kill moves, high damage moves, and harder to KO due to weight. The ability to combo these massive damage moves during stun, and even combo into low % kill moves adds a ton to their gameplay.[/COLOR

I was referring more to Jigglypuff, Zelda, Luigi, Peach. ;/ And still the slow and powerful characters seem to be at a disadvantage to the faster ones.

 

[matt4300]

Can we try to think of something to buff slow characters eventually? It seems like we just keep buffing the faster ones more and more.

marry me T_T. i have been saying this since the begining.. and at this point if there arent any char balance codes then the faster chars will alwasy dominate . wich would suck..

osi there is a reason you didnt mention bowser.. its becuase he sucks bad. and he needs a buff more than any other char by far. when guys wont accept diddys recovery nerf but will accept the extreme nerfing of bowser somethings up.

 

[Kix]

.

 

[zxeon]

My Brawl disk just stopped running and no other DVDs work.

Keep trying to run DVDs if they don't work it sounds like your Wii is defective. If you're still under the one year warrany you might try sending it into nintendo so they can fix it.

 

[Osi]

I was referring more to Jigglypuff, Zelda, Luigi, Peach. ;/ And still the slow and powerful characters seem to be at a disadvantage to the faster ones.

I think jiggly is one of the better now.... the hitstun just made it so much easier to WOP, and added loads of rest combos in (this could use a minor buff because of the risk involved to try it).

Luigi and peach are combo beasts now. Peach is just a monster now, and with ASL she has insane edge guard ability. Not to mention she has a giant arsenal of combo chain moves, a nice projectile, and with decay less she can kill better. I can't go off on luigi as much because I suck on him, but the people I play with just wreck me some times on him with juggle combos.

Zelda has some nice combos now too with her up air and great tilt range, can combo into the heel, and not to mention the up smash being great for combos and doing lots of %.

The characters I see the least buffed from brawl+ would be snake and bowser.

@Matt: I totally agree on Bowser, if there was one character I'd give a minor buff to if there is room it would be him.

 

[Kix]

Keep trying to run DVDs if they don't work it sounds like your Wii is defective. If you're still under the one year warrany you might try sending it into nintendo so they can fix it.

I unplugged it and it worked. I hope it doesn't happen again.

 

[abcool]

Seriously i haven't seen a good case for samus gaining a buff from this either, her missliles are weak and she is floaty as hell is there any good samus user out there that thinks she needs a buff also? and another question at 1 buffer why can't i dash attack cancel or has it been removed cause honestly i think that was one of brawl's unique AT that should have been KEPT.

 

[MookieRah]

her missliles are weak and she is floaty as hell is there any good samus user out there that thinks she needs a buff also?

Having a character specific jump height for her would work wonders. Besides that, I would possibly think about buffing her super missiles and her fully charged shots knockback. That would be enough to make her beast.

 

[matt4300]

Seriously i haven't seen a good case for samus gaining a buff from this either, her missliles are weak and she is floaty as hell is there any good samus user out there that thinks she needs a buff also? and another question at 1 buffer why can't i dash attack cancel or has it been removed cause honestly i think that was one of brawl's unique AT that should have been KEPT.

samus is a secondary of mine so i guess im pretty good with her.so yeh she does need to be buffed, but not nearly as much as bowser. i would say her power missles are just about usless. her bombs are completely usless and your more likely to get punished for useing them even if they hit the enemy... that and for all the effort to hit someone they only do 9% wich is just gay, especialy with the faster dash speeds for every one and dash danceing. hardly any of her moves can kill at a decent percent and the ones that can are either 2 slow (Dtilt, Utilt,) or are hard to hit with either because of range (Fsmash) or small, quick hitboxes (bair) she does have her awsome new zair to powershot and that helps but it gets pretty predictable.
also with the hitlag 60% most of her moves get really crappy. her Uair rarely works right her Usmash is worse than it was, and her bombs become worse becuase you cant folow up while there in the stun from them.
now im not complaining. i love samus especialy with hitstun, but theres no denying shes pretty awful compared to faster chars like fox, falco,marth,zamus,toonlink,pit,wolf,falcon,shiek kirb- ... well you get the point
oh but shes great against bowser ( LOL! )

personaly haveing played her so much i would say the best alround fix she could get would be to add 2% damage to every attack in her arsenal... and some other cool stuff would be to make her super missles more durable, make her bombs explode on contact like in melee, and last would be to make her dsmash kill at low percents. a man can dream

EDIT:"Having a character specific jump height for her would work wonders. Besides that, I would possibly think about buffing her super missiles and her fully charged shots knockback. That would be enough to make her beast."

yeh the power shot thing would be cool but she really relys on it to much atm anyway. i would rather buff usless things or give her that 2% damage buff on all attacks.

let me reiderate im not complaining shes pretty good now just not up to par with the "good" chars
hmm mabye not 2% that would break the multi hit moves... mabey somekinda decimal increase like 1.5x damage buff or something.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

if samus' charged shot killed earlier and her super missiles had the knock back of snake's missiles she'd be pretty well balanced.. oh that and shorter short hops

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

@matt4300: It's not the damage she does that's the issue, it's the amount of knockback the attacks have (or don't have).

I was a Samus main back in Melee and after playing her in Brawl, it was clear to me that she's a shadow of what she used to be. The most significant issues are the fact that the Super Missiles and Charged Shot are pathetic compared to Melee. I dropped her for Ness between games.

I'd say that her problems are her floatyness, major nerfs to projectiles, and I think her second jump and run speed have been nerfed.

 

[Revven]

@matt4300: It's not the damage she does that's the issue, it's the amount of knockback the attacks have (or don't have).

Dsmash and Dtilt were ALSO nerfed quite heavily in knockback. I used Samus quite extensively in Melee as well and I almost always used Dsmash if I could as a KO move at the right opportunity. It was too good, as far as her Smash attacks were concerned. It seems to me that they buffed her aerials and one of her Smash attacks but, nerfed the other two and her projectiles in exchange. Pretty lame balance (terrible actually). And her throw set-ups have been nerfed severely, but, that may be because of the floatiness. Oh and they made her grapple retract SO slowly (well, this was like this in Melee so it doesn't need fixing) and come OUT slowly (THIS does though, she has such a terrible grab game because of it), something's gotta be done about that if we want to change her around. Bair also lost some knockback for KO potential as well.

It's even funnier how her dash grab comes out faster and but still kinda retracts slowly. =\

 

[Yeroc]

Anyone know of a reason why my Wii won't load codes anymore? I get to the Applying message and then it just freezes. Not the black screen after (I've only got like 130 lines on anyway) but it won't even start the game.

 

[zxeon]

Isn't it wierd how they nerfed characters in Brawl? Rather I don't think they actualy nerfed them they just did a piss poor job of putting them back together when they made this game.

 

[Revven]

Anyone know of a reason why my Wii won't load codes anymore? I get to the Applying message and then it just freezes. Not the black screen after (I've only got like 130 lines on anyway) but it won't even start the game.

Have you tried booting Brawl normally to see if it's your disc at all? (or your Wii?)

 

[Yeroc]

That works, I guess it could be my SD card, but that doesn't make any sense either.

 

[zxeon]

Anyone know of a reason why my Wii won't load codes anymore? I get to the Applying message and then it just freezes. Not the black screen after (I've only got like 130 lines on anyway) but it won't even start the game.

One of your codes has an error in it that's keeping it from loading. I know because I have copied many codes by hand and screwed them up

 

[Yeroc]

Heh, somehow I was missing the first line of the PS Mod code. Seems to be working now.

 

[matt4300]

@matt4300: It's not the damage she does that's the issue, it's the amount of knockback the attacks have (or don't have).

I was a Samus main back in Melee and after playing her in Brawl, it was clear to me that she's a shadow of what she used to be. The most significant issues are the fact that the Super Missiles and Charged Shot are pathetic compared to Melee. I dropped her for Ness between games.

I'd say that her problems are her floatyness, major nerfs to projectiles, and I think her second jump and run speed have been nerfed.

well i was thinking that the more damage she could do the faster she could use her kill moves ... so knock back on kill moves wouldent matter anymore... mostly i was trying to think of a general buff that wouldnet take a bunch of lines to do, and if we buffed knock back of everything she wouldnet be able to combo as well... so damage just seemed right.
if you read me last post; it says near the bottom that i would rather buff her missles bombs and dsmash more than the damage thing.