COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Osi]

I have been testing with the values a lot, and I've finally come to a codeset I really enjoy using. I think the positives far outweigh the negatives on this one, and it adds elements that vanilla lacked (or did badly). I do need to update my shield stun code, but before I get into finding what I like for shield/hit lag I wanted to get the movement codes set for my list. This all may change if a momentum code comes that works well.

Pros:

• Much faster pace matches. The added speed makes it harder to react and time combos.
• Lower SH's are great for adding pressure with low spikes and drills.
• The edge game is deep. Characters can be spiked out of up B and tilt edge guarded again.
• The dash speed allows for faster chasing and some more horizontal combo chains.
• Dash dancing adds entry mindgames and more spacing options
• Camping is more difficult because of the speed the opponent can reach across the stage.
• A larger difference occurs between SH and full hops making the ground to air transition have more variety.
• Samus missiles are buffed.
• While some easy up tilt combos do not chain with the lower hitstun these codes allow for some more options due to the increased speed where you could not follow up fast enough before.

Cons:

• Some SH double airs are no longer possible, or at least really hard.
• Recovery is harder because of increased fall speed(this can be a pro or con in different views).
• Diddy is harder to up B with.
• Meta is even more broken (I could care less because I was thinking ban from the start unless he gets some character specific nerfs).
• Tech chasing is a bit easier making tech rolls slightly worse.

Codes:
ALC
ASL
Ledge speed up
SH 1.1/Dash speed 1.2/Fast fall 1.2
Downwards Gravity 1.2
Hitstun 8.5%
Dash dance
No buffer
Shield stun/hit lag - old code from mookies list (I need to update this one)
Frozen stages - PS2, Wario, Castle, Port Town, Pirate
No trip
No replay limit

 

[kupo15]

btw Osi, the DI problem is hitlag which is being worked on. When that code is complete, your find DI harder without the speed increase

 

[Starscream]

Alright guys try my version of Brawl+

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2GUQW6H5

No Tripping
ACL
Hitstun (10%)
Faster Edge
Crouch Canceling
No ASL
Faster Falls
Stage Reversed (PK 2 and Wario Ware)
Hitlag Modifier
Short Hop/Dash Speed
Triple Jump Fix

-Sorry I couldn't find any space for the shield codes atm. What should I take out? =/
-Other than that enjoy the fast paced action :D
__________________

Think you can just tell us the values you used for each modifiable code?

 

[leafgreen386]

Codes:
ALC
ASL
Ledge speed up
SH 1.1/Dash speed 1.2/Fast fall 1.2
Downwards Gravity 1.2
Hitstun 8.5%
Dash dance
No buffer
Shield stun/hit lag - old code from mookies list (I need to update this one)
Frozen stages - PS2, Wario, Castle, Port Town, Pirate
No trip
No replay limit

...huh? You say shs are closer to the ground... but without any upward grav, wouldn't a sh of 1.1 make them higher?

 

[Osi]

...huh? You say shs are closer to the ground... but without any upward grav, wouldn't a sh of 1.1 make them higher?

Woops, left the gravity off, I have upward at 1.1.

 

[leafgreen386]

K. That makes a lot more sense, then.

Hey Almas, if you can even get to the point where you can at least get a horizontal resistance modifier (nothing fancy), do you think you could send it my way? It would be helpful for testing some stuff for the smash lab.

 

[KayJay]

How about making an character specific short hop code? Characters like Pit, Samus, ZSS, Sheik ect. are definately more fun to play with shorter hops while characters like ganon, cpt. falcon, or link have better use with the default short hop.
When we have such a code, all we have to do is to make a poll to which short hop value (default or .85) fits his main character better. After that we would have the perfect balanced short hop code, IMO.
Sure, this is only a good option if the codelength does not increase that much.

 

[dgameman1]

ZOMFG NESS IS THE NEW METAKNIGHT

Pk Fire - Grab - Downthrow - jump - fair - fair - jump - spike - pkthunder recover zomg

 

[Alopex]

My good friend mains Ness in B+. He has stuck to the edges from many angles that showed just slightly changed. I think the ASL for them is just more generous as compared to other characters. No ASL affects them, but i think they have more possible grabbing directions that they can sweetspot from.

The main thing is, Phantom Wings, Almas, leafgreen, and some other knowledgeable players have stated that Ness and Lucas are hardcoded, write-protected to be incapable of no sweetspotting.

The reason I put up the video is because, since I've shown them avoiding the auto sweetspot, I'm wondering what's going on.

If they managed to avoid the ASL all those times I showed them, then there must be a way to make them avoid it ALL the time?
I mean, the No ASL's I pulled off should never have worked with hardcoded characters, so what's going on? Research is needed!

EDIT: I mean, the mystery is ever more compounded by the fact that it more readily happens on some stages than others. It happens on FD with complete consistency, but Yoshi's becomes a different story. So what exactly is the affect of the stage on the code?

 

[Almas]

/shrug. I was only quoting PW. Either way it seems that the ASL code still affects them slightly differently.

The problem with horizontal resistance leaf is that there's nothing in the game which changes it. Things like Picto's wind effects merely add a gravity-like force. There's almost no way to find where it is. I may be able to make more progress once I isolate the second set of movement codes (there is atleast a second one, although I'm not sure how many there are). Quite annoyingly I found some of the stuff that uses it then discarded the data because it wasn't immediately relevant.

On a brighter note, it may look as if our dreams will come true. A future version of GeckoOS will have a new feature of 'code patching' - a one-time overwrite in certain locations. In theory we may be able to use this to write all of our ASM codes to another place, such that they count against a separate code limit. ASM codes make up for a LOT of the character-modifying stuff, so we may be able to balance the game on a more specific level, too. I wouldn't get too excited yet, though.

 

[dgameman1]

Put me in as Luigi tester

 

[Osi]

Me and Kuma just got done testing snake a bit with SH and no buffering... he is not even that fun to play atm to us now. He can't SH nair with any added gravity, and we couldn't really get the nair/dair to pickup dropped grenades well either. I figure the buffering made this much harder to do. We did it a few times, but certainly couldn't do it consistently, and ate a lot of nades trying. The DLX is also a lot harder for us to pull, but that could be us just being rusty on them. Has anyone else tested snake with 0 buffering and any gravity/SH codes on? It doesn't feel like anything is broken on him at all. I've been a bit iffy on buffering to be honest. There are some characters I like it on, but it does have some minor negatives I notice a lot. I am a fan of shorter buffers though. I like that they shorten the window but also still allow some options that 0 buffer takes out.

 

[Shell]

Hey Osi, what does upwards gravity do that other gravity/fallspeed/shorthops codes can't? Other than decrease recovery moves?

 

[matt4300]

/shrug. I was only quoting PW. Either way it seems that the ASL code still affects them slightly differently.

The problem with horizontal resistance leaf is that there's nothing in the game which changes it. Things like Picto's wind effects merely add a gravity-like force. There's almost no way to find where it is. I may be able to make more progress once I isolate the second set of movement codes (there is atleast a second one, although I'm not sure how many there are). Quite annoyingly I found some of the stuff that uses it then discarded the data because it wasn't immediately relevant.

On a brighter note, it may look as if our dreams will come true. A future version of GeckoOS will have a new feature of 'code patching' - a one-time overwrite in certain locations. In theory we may be able to use this to write all of our ASM codes to another place, such that they count against a separate code limit. ASM codes make up for a LOT of the character-modifying stuff, so we may be able to balance the game on a more specific level, too. I wouldn't get too excited yet, though.

Balance?!?! Specific!?!?! LEVEL?!?!? uhhh hellz to the yes bowser(complete sandbagging, projectile absorbing, anticombo, mindgame realying sack of crap@_@) ! samus (weak, floaty, usless projectiles, - relyable killing moves, giant target) ivysar!!!(dont play but i here hes bad) link (upB in all ways )!!!!! T_T good god i hope we can fix this.

 

[dgameman1]

Is there a way to add shield codes?

Player 1 (5 lines)
* 4A000000 80F59A60
* 14000088 FF000000
* 14000090 FFFFFFFF
* 140000A0 00000000
* 140000A8 00000000

Player 2 (5 lines)
* 4A000000 80F59ED4
* 14000088 0000FF00
* 14000090 FFFFFFFF
* 140000A0 00000000
* 140000A8 00000000

Player 3 (5 lines)
* 4A000000 80F5A348
* 14000088 FFFF0000
* 14000090 FFFFFFFF
* 140000A0 00000000
* 140000A8 00000000

Player 4 (5 lines)
* 4A000000 80F5A7BC
* 14000088 00FF0000
* 14000090 FFFFFFFF
* 140000A0 00000000
* 140000A8 00000000

 

[Almas]

Those are the coloured shield codes, listed in the OP. Also not really anything to do with competitive play, IMO.

EDIT: Upwards Grav just makes the game feel less ridiculously floaty for me. Down Grav does it a bit more so. But yeah, it affects recoveries, and most of them deserve it IMO.

 

[dgameman1]

Those are the coloured shield codes, listed in the OP. Also not really anything to do with competitive play, IMO.

Nothing to do with the competitive player XD. Just makes Brawl+ look better cosmetic wise. =] So... is there a way to add them?

 

[Osi]

Hey Osi, what does upwards gravity do that other gravity/fallspeed/shorthops codes can't? Other than decrease recovery moves?

It reduces jump height for SH and full hops. From what I've tested all characters can recover without major issues at 1.05 and 1.1 upwards. I know that this portion of my set will likely not be in the brawl standard since a lot of brawl players like recovering. I am a fan of a hard/gimp friendly edge game, and if we have BAD in there I see the lower jump height being just fine. I may be alone on this one, and it is a slight increase. Any higher than 1.1 and it did start to feel a bit too hard to recover. I didn't notice the change from 1 to 1.1 on recovery really.

 

[Shell]

Right, but what's the advantage to doing 1.1 up / 1.2 down vs. just 1.3 down? Other than nerfing recovery height?

Edit: I'll try it out latter.

 

[Almas]

I believe the focus of Brawl+ is competitive play, and this thread is about codes which enhance competitive play. What do you mean by 'add them'? They're already in the OP anyways...

EDIT: Upwards gravity is always in effect if you are going up. Mainly jumps, recoveries and shorthops.
Downwards gravity is in effect whenever you are not rising, or whenever you are forced to rise by an opponent (attacks, throws).

 

[GPDP]

Right, but what's the advantage to doing 1.1 up / 1.2 down vs. just 1.3 down? Other than nerfing recovery height?

Jumps on the way up feel less floaty. But again, it's not worth adding IMO unless we also get a code to increase full jump launch power alongside it, as well as find a way to exempt various recoveries from the effects of gravity.

EDIT: btw, Almas, you found the variable for short hop launch power. Have you also come across the one for full jump launch power?

 

[Almas]

Jumps on the way up feel less floaty. But again, it's not worth adding IMO unless we also get a code to increase full jump launch power alongside it.

That can be arranged.

EDIT: I'm fairly sure I have. It's saved on my laptop though, and I've just spent the day working, so I'm not going to check for you. I'll do some coding tomorrow, probably, and I'll get a fullhop code done while I'm at it.

 

[dgameman1]

I believe the focus of Brawl+ is competitive play, and this thread is about codes which enhance competitive play. What do you mean by 'add them'? They're already in the OP anyways...

EDIT: Upwards gravity is always in effect if you are going up. Mainly jumps, recoveries and shorthops.
Downwards gravity is in effect whenever you are not rising, or whenever you are forced to rise by an opponent (attacks, throws).

I ment that how can I/Someone else, combine them?

 

[GPDP]

That can be arranged.

That's good to hear. But of course, we mustn't forget about double and multiple jumps. Do they also have their own unique variables? Does every Kirby jump, for instance, have its own variable? I also imagine recoveries like Sonic's have their own, right?

 

[CountKaiser]

In my codeset, I've been using 25% decay. This code reduces the knockback decay on moves, right?

If so, just how much does this code affect comboing and killing? Also, if anyone actually uses this code, what percentage do you use?

 

[Almas]

It's been a while since I played around with the codes, admittedly. I believe that double jumps and multiple jumps are tracked by different variables (such that, for example, Jiggly doesn't even use her double jump variable), but I can't remember.

I have no idea where recovery variables are stored. If we're extremely lucky, they'll be part of the second set of movement codes. But we'll have to see.

EDIT: Decay is another name for Stale Move Negation - that is, if you repeatedly use a move, it becomes weaker and weaker. By using 25% decay you make this effect less noticable.

Shield Colour Modifier:
4A000000 80F595EC
140004FC FF000000
14000970 0000FF00
14000DE4 FFFF0000
14001258 00FF0000
60000004 00000001
5A010000 00000474
14000090 FFFFFFFF
140000A0 00000000
140000A8 00000000
62000000 00000001
E0000000 80008000

Wrote it while my food was cooking. Likely doesn't work.

 

[GPDP]

Yeah, let's hope we can find the proper variables. I truly believe increasing the launch power of all jumps and recoveries alongside an increase in upward gravity is the key to dealing with Brawl's floatiness decisively.

 

[Osi]

Right, but what's the advantage to doing 1.1 up / 1.2 down vs. just 1.3 down? Other than nerfing recovery height?

Edit: I'll try it out latter.

I use them together so jumps go shorter and come down faster. The speed it adds to the game is pretty dramatic. This really changes the game, so I highly doubt it is used in the final set. I have no large reservation about keeping upwards at 1 and using just 1.2 downward.

 

[dgameman1]

It's been a while since I played around with the codes, admittedly. I believe that double jumps and multiple jumps are tracked by different variables (such that, for example, Jiggly doesn't even use her double jump variable), but I can't remember.

I have no idea where recovery variables are stored. If we're extremely lucky, they'll be part of the second set of movement codes. But we'll have to see.

EDIT: Decay is another name for Stale Move Negation - that is, if you repeatedly use a move, it becomes weaker and weaker. By using 25% decay you make this effect less noticable.

Shield Colour Modifier:
4A000000 80F595EC
140004FC FF000000
14000970 0000FF00
14000DE4 FFFF0000
14001258 00FF0000
60000004 00000001
5A010000 00000474
14000090 FFFFFFFF
140000A0 00000000
140000A8 00000000
62000000 00000001
E0000000 80008000

Wrote it while my food was cooking. Likely doesn't work.

But how did you combine them?

 

[abcool]

I gave my 2 cents before and i'll try again. since u guys are making codes and idk if u noticed, but brawls camera or death barriers is a litte to close to the stage can u make it so the characters don't be two jumps from commiting SD or push the camera out a bit more cause it just feels a little to close unlike melee who's stages were spacious and the death barrier was little ways off. other than that i think we are all good...unless u can shrink the characters just slightly to look better on screen..

 

[Alopex]

Me and Kuma just got done testing snake a bit with SH and no buffering... he is not even that fun to play atm to us now. He can't SH nair with any added gravity, and we couldn't really get the nair/dair to pickup dropped grenades well either. I figure the buffering made this much harder to do. We did it a few times, but certainly couldn't do it consistently, and ate a lot of nades trying. The DLX is also a lot harder for us to pull, but that could be us just being rusty on them. Has anyone else tested snake with 0 buffering and any gravity/SH codes on? It doesn't feel like anything is broken on him at all. I've been a bit iffy on buffering to be honest. There are some characters I like it on, but it does have some minor negatives I notice a lot. I am a fan of shorter buffers though. I like that they shorten the window but also still allow some options that 0 buffer takes out.

0 buffering ruins a lot of stuff.

Use 1 buffer. It's the best. Everything that can be done in Vanilla can still be done, but the crouching after a fastfall doesn't happen often and won't happen at all if you practice your timing.

 

[Almas]

My understanding of what the codes mean allowed me to see a link between the different sections. Many were writing to locations which are a fixed distance from each other. So, I put in a small loop that repeats them all instead of writing the same (slightly different) thing a few times.

That said I'm unfamiliar with the "repeat" codetype. The 6000... line may end with a 3 instead of a 4. And it may function completely differently to how I expect.

In Pseudocode:

Player 1 (5 lines)
* 4A000000 80F59A60 // Sets the "pointer" (where information is written to) to a location
* 14000088 FF000000 // Writes the value FF000000 to the location of pointer+88
* 14000090 FFFFFFFF // Writes the value FFFFFFFF to the location of pointer+90
* 140000A0 00000000 // etc.
* 140000A8 00000000 // etc.

The first line is essentially redundant, because there's nothing special about the value 80F59A60. In the memory itself it is probably a placeholder for the start of data regarding the player, but it means nothing to us. Instead of writing to 80F59A60+88, I could write to 80F59A50+78, or simply 80000000+F59AE8. Using the last method I can save an entire line - or four lines if you count all four codes. Now, my code:

4A000000 80F595EC // Sets the PO to 474 before the first one in the other code. Because the ones in the code are 474 apart
140004FC FF000000 //
14000970 0000FF00 // Writes the varying values to the places. As I said, I can reference them from one of hundreds of locations.
14000DE4 FFFF0000 // 
14001258 00FF0000 //
60000004 00000001 // Starts a loop
5A010000 00000474 // Increases the Pointer by 474 (this sets it to the first location in the other code - each time this is executed it will bump it forwards to the next 'player')
14000090 FFFFFFFF //
140000A0 00000000 // Writes the other stuff
140000A8 00000000 // 
62000000 00000001 // Executes the loop
E0000000 80008000 // "Resets" everything, making other codes safe to run in case the writers on those didn't take precautions

 

[dgameman1]

0 buffering ruins a lot of stuff.

Use 1 buffer. It's the best. Everything that can be done in Vanilla can still be done, but the crouching after a fastfall doesn't happen often and won't happen at all if you practice your timing.

I don't even understand what the problem was with brawl's buffer?

 

[Osi]

0 buffering ruins a lot of stuff.

Use 1 buffer. It's the best. Everything that can be done in Vanilla can still be done, but the crouching after a fastfall doesn't happen often and won't happen at all if you practice your timing.

I'll try that out. There are no bugs on 1 like we had with 3?

 

[Shell]

I haven't had any bugs with it yet. I don't think anyone else has, either.

 

[Osi]

I haven't had any bugs with it yet. I don't think anyone else has, either.

Oh awesome, I'll try 1 out then instead of 0.

 

[CyberGlitch]

I gave my 2 cents before and i'll try again. since u guys are making codes and idk if u noticed, but brawls camera or death barriers is a litte to close to the stage can u make it so the characters don't be two jumps from commiting SD or push the camera out a bit more cause it just feels a little to close unlike melee who's stages were spacious and the death barrier was little ways off. other than that i think we are all good...unless u can shrink the characters just slightly to look better on screen..

I thought of this as well the other day. Shrink the players. If you can do it by different multiples than 2 this should work. It'd only need to be slightly. As a good means of comparison, make them a size that makes the Melee levels a proportional size to what they originally were in Melee.

This would nerf verticle kills though, which reminds me, that's another big reason why 1.2-1.3 was considered too high (though some would prefer a game focused just on horizontal kills, despite this making the game unbalanced).

 

[Almas]

The game stores two sets of size variables - one which similarly modifies knockback/damage etc. and one which seems to only affect the stuff you'd want to change.

For some reason people decided it would be a bad idea. I forget what it was.

 

[Alopex]

I'll try that out. There are no bugs on 1 like we had with 3?

Yep, 1 is perfectly safe, as Shell said.

 

[dgameman1]

Yep, 1 is perfectly safe, as Shell said.

What is the code for 1?