"common knowledge" that a lot of people don't know

[X1-12]

thanks for clearing that up magus

does anyone know why marth sometimes fails to do utilt and just flails his sword a bit and it has no hit box?

this might me a NTSC thing only? i play marth in pal all the time and its never happened to me

 

[Wuss]

I love this thread, so much cool stuff to learn.

Fox can do a perfect waveland really easily on Onnet, in the middle with the platform that falls down every once in a while. If you're on the ground, jump, and time the airdodge correctly while holding the control stick perfectly to one side, you'll do a perfect waveland.

Double shining is done by pressing down b exactly 5 frames (for falco, not sure what it is for fox) after jumping out of the first shine. It can't be done faster or slower (i'm pretty sure about this, could someone confirm?)

 

[X1-12]

I love this thread, so much cool stuff to learn.

Fox can do a perfect waveland really easily on Onnet, in the middle with the platform that falls down every once in a while. If you're on the ground, jump, and time the airdodge correctly while holding the control stick perfectly to one side, you'll do a perfect waveland.

Double shining is done by pressing down b exactly 5 frames (for falco, not sure what it is for fox) after jumping out of the first shine. It can't be done faster or slower (i'm pretty sure about this, could someone confirm?)

this is the best ever guide for double/multi-shining, its for falco, and the timing is different for fox, there might be a similar one on the fox boards, so check there

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214549&page=7

 

[Wuss]

^thanks. I guess the main point of that is that multishining can't be done faster. There's one speed (as in the next shine will always come out the same number of frames after the jump)

 

[X1-12]

^thanks. I guess the main point of that is that multishining can't be done faster. There's one speed (as in the next shine will always come out the same number of frames after the jump)

not exactly

its true the shine will allways come out on the same frame there can be a difference in the time between each jump, for example if you do one nomral shine you have i think 16 frames in which you can press jump to JC it, and then must press shine again x frames later

 

[Tamoo]

Hmm, when peach uses her fair, she takes her crown off and smacks the opponent with it

pretty beastly imo

 

[Rubyiris]

People mistake FD for being Falco's best neutral. It's easily his worst neutral. Possibly his worst, or second worst legal stage with the current stageset (Going off P4's stageset)

This isn't always true, since there are certain matchups were other stages could potentially be better or worse, but against other high-tier characters, i.e. fox/peach/marth/ice climbers and mid tier characters like doc/mario/DK FD is easily his worst legal stage. It might be debatable on Fox on counterpick stages and Peach on brinstar but overall falco vs the mentioned characters is terrible on FD.

In fact, Falco's camping game is even better on certain platform stages. Dreamland has high platforms which allows his lasers, his priority, and his mobility to let him outcamp anyone not named Fox/Falco/Captain Falcon.

Battlefield has the "bass cave" where camping under the platforms becomes a winning strategy against alot of characters. It forces them to approach him. Falco NEVER has to approach on battlefield.

Pokemon Stadium is another stage that heavily favors him. Even against characters that can chaingrab him, the platforms and stage changes allow him to escape (Platforms don't help against Ice Climbers). Falco also gets to heavily camp the stage changes.

 

[Mind Trick]

Some fun facts about Yoshi that's not really widely known:
-Yoshi can jump out of a powershield.
-Falco's shine breaks Yoshi's double jump from 0% onwards.
-You can eggroll immediately from the edge if you do it fast enough.
-You can change you trajectory of eggroll immediately if you come down from a platform.
-Double Jumping immediately on the ground gets you on the ground again and can be used for stopping dashes for example, you can even turn around with it.

 

[JPOBS]

characters that fall from the shine (fox/falco for example) can tech shine spikes on the walls of the stage.

but characters who dont fall cant tech the shine spike.

 

[Rubyiris]

With Peach's second jump you can immediately land on platforms.

You can also immediately land on the ground with it, and even turn around, much like Yoshi can.

You can tech the underside of platforms.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Rubyiris, your avi is really distracting me. lol

 

[Koskinator]

if u press c stick + z it charges smashes

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

momentum cancelling exists in brawl, i dont see why it would be an impossibility so easily dismissed here.

And Melee has combos. different games dude.

 

[Cosmo!]

-Falco's shine breaks Yoshi's double jump from 0% onwards.

what a terrible matchup lol

 

[`DNS`]

thanks for changing your sig cosmo LOL

 

[keeper]

thanks for changing your sig cosmo LOL

I second this.

 

[Lovage]

falcon's waveland on yoshis:

falcon's backwards jump and forwards jump have different animations and slightly different heights.

falcon can barely not reach the top platform of yoshi's story with a forward full jump. but if you do a backwards full jump he will perfect land (landing with no lag, can instantly dash or drop thru the platform) on the platform. because backwards full jump goes slightly higher, this is the only way to waveland on the top platform in one jump.

this works exactly the same way on the top platform on FoD, because they're the same height.

 

[unknown522]

balloons cut through swords.

That's an old one =P

 

[Proverbs]

You can tech the underside of platforms.

No, you can't tech the underside of platforms. That's just common knowledge.

 

[derfleurer]

Marth and Roy can cancel their down tilt using pretty much everything except for shield.

IASA frames. My unfortunately necessary contribution.

Edit: nvm...it's just vbm >.>

 

[Tee ay eye]

you can do full wavelands (meaning, with the control stick pointed DIRECTLY left or right without a downward angle) if you shorthop one way and waveland the other way; the timing's kinda hard though.

i also don't know anything intricate about it like whether or not it works with fullhops or neutral hops (i dunno if theres a difference between neutral and forward hops) or if it works if the hop and waveland go in the same direction.

summon: Magus420 Magus

 

[ShootingStars]

That Captain Falcon is the best character in the game and all Falcon mains just sandbag trying to be like Isai.

seriously, the isai saga is over... hes only god at 64
bet hax/darkrain could beat him in melee.

 

[ETWIST51294]

shut up *****, ISAI IS TOO GOOD

I funny how Isai is STILL the most successful Falcon of all time and nobody has yet to recreate the way he plays. Please stfu.

 

[Silent Wolf]

isai isnt that great at melee, and relative to good players now, he never was. thats how its always going to be, he doesnt like the game lol..

 

[ETWIST51294]

He's not good at melee now. But there still hasn't been another Falcon(except maybe Darkrain) that consistently placed very high at National tournaments.

 

[Silent Wolf]

people werent as good back then, those placing hold much less merit

 

[L__]

-Sheik's leg on the first hit of her downsmash is invincible.

It's the first 5 frames, to be precise.

-Falco's legs are invincible during his downsmash.

To add onto the information, this occurs with Falcon and his down smash as well.

-The first frame of every dodge leaves you vulnerable (as well as a certain amount of ending ones).

Are you sure? I could have sworn I heard somewhere it was the first 3 frames and the last 3 frames leave you vulnerable.

edit:

falcon's waveland on yoshis:

falcon's backwards jump and forwards jump have different animations and slightly different heights.

falcon can barely not reach the top platform of yoshi's story with a forward full jump. but if you do a backwards full jump he will perfect land (landing with no lag, can instantly dash or drop thru the platform) on the platform. because backwards full jump goes slightly higher, this is the only way to waveland on the top platform in one jump.


this works exactly the same way on the top platform on FoD, because they're the same height.

Also, if you do a backwards jump from the little bump on Brinstar, you can waveland on the top platform with just one jump.

I don't know if you mentioned this yet Lovage, [and I'm pretty sure you already know] but Falco's jump can reach the top of Battlefield without any lag.

These types of jumps are called No-Impact Landing from what I remember.

 

[Lovage]

in doubles, if you're hit out of your ledge roll or ledge get-up attack you no longer "have the edge"
the timing of this depends on the character (some characters have more invincibility during their ledge animations) and if they're below or above 100.

this is very important for saving your partner

 

[Wobbles]

It's also worth mentioning that the moment you let go of the edge (hit back or down to ledge-hop, for instance) the ledge becomes free even if you're still invincible.

This means enemies can grab it while you're trying to edgeguard, but it also means that you can get the edge then ledge-hop through your partner's up+b and let them have it.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

If you Dtilt with Marth (maybe Roy), then hold forward and R, you can shield out of your Dtilt, which is usually impossible without waiting a few seconds.

I think it's because you're cancelling the Dtilt with an initial dash but the dash is canceled by the shield. Lol.

 

[L__]

If a character that normally falls from Fox's shine is charging a smash and the Fox shines that character, the character falls.

E.G.

Marth charges forward smash.

Fox shines Marth.

Marth falls.

 

[Lovage]

If you Dtilt with Marth (maybe Roy), then hold forward and R, you can shield out of your Dtilt, which is usually impossible without waiting a few seconds.

I think it's because you're cancelling the Dtilt with an initial dash but the dash is canceled by the shield. Lol.

it's cuz you walk, not initial dash, but yeah

If a character that normally falls from Fox's shine is charging a smash and the Fox shines that character, the character falls.

E.G.

Marth charges forward smash.

Fox shines Marth.

Marth falls.

wow, cool info

 

[L__]

I forgot why it happens though, I never really asked Magus

edit:

Shields last 215 frames, Yoshi's lasts 216.

[3.6 seconds]

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Is it only when charging?

Would marth fall if he fsmashed and was hit on frame 2 by your shine (charging doesn't start til frame 3)?

Would marth fall if he was charging and was hit on frame 64 by your shine (charging is exactly 1 second/60 frame, so this is after the swing starts but before the hitbox)?

 

[L__]

Marth does not fall during the initial frames when you hit forward smash.

edit:

or any other smash.

 

[Lovage]

the way you have to grab the edge backwards after recovery moves (fox's up+b, falcon's up+b, samus' up+b etc) is determined by TIME not by DISTANCE. this means that if you fastfall after recovering with your back to the ledge, you will have a better chance at living.

this is important so people stop assuming they're auto-dead if they get under battlefield. if you use the correct firefox angle and fastfall as soon as possible, you can live most of the time (not accounting edgehogs)

 

[L__]

Falco has the fastest falling speed

followed by Falcon

then Fox

Fox has the highest acceleration speed however

 

[Nø Ca$h]

a mid air jump can have no impact (if timed right)

edit- and the spacies' up bs can be aimed in 16 directions

 

[Silent Wolf]

the way you have to grab the edge backwards after recovery moves (fox's up+b, falcon's up+b, samus' up+b etc) is determined by TIME not by DISTANCE. this means that if you fastfall after recovering with your back to the ledge, you will have a better chance at living.

this is important so people stop assuming they're auto-dead if they get under battlefield. if you use the correct firefox angle and fastfall as soon as possible, you can live most of the time (not accounting edgehogs)

It's still just as based on distance, just a different distance when a fast fall is incorporated. But yeah, it's very important to know.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

puff can grab the edge from behind with her up b. so she can be like brawl by running off stage and upbeing to instantly grab the edge.