Cold Shoulders: Ice Climbers Social Thread

[Psi Sig]

so i was messing around,
while running, holding down attack, and pressing the c-stick in the opposite direction causes popo to enter his skit animation but causes nana to turn around and begin skidding toward popo. I found that if hit the c-stick then the control stick down and hit b i could make nana do a solo ice block or squall hammer out of dash(still messing around to see if i can get blizzard)
also i found that if i either:
a) Buffer a grab so that nana does a pivot grab(sometimes she does a dash grab still unsure why sometimes)
or
b) let nana do her pivot then hold grab while dsynced into her resync zone (nana will start to come back then immediately turn and do a dash grab)
if nana grab someone during this she will not throw them until you get close to her one the ground, meaning you can jump over her, for some reason one time she threw forward but I have not been able to recreate it.
Now I don't know how useful any of this but i thought I'd share it. I'm still messing around with it and I'll post if I find anything else out

 

[Damp]

There's a ton of weird tech that can be down while holding attack and using the c-stick. I don't think much of it is really practical unless you get in a situation where you can buffer attack. I'd keep looking at it though, maybe some of this tech can push ICs.

 

[Psi Sig]

yea, i dont think'll lead to much outside of the occasional catch someone off guard with a dsync nana out of a straight dash, or some swag out of frozen nana's grab release. definitely going to keep digging see if i can find some cool desyncs

 

[Psi Sig]

thoughts on using footstool to force a tech chase once your opponent starts to sdi you midstage grab shenanigans?

 

[Phresh123]

I AM THE GOAT.

Also me & Sharkz did hella good doing dubz with IC's.

 

[Sharkz]

I super bustered it at PMS. On the bright side, I have a lot of ideas on how I want to change up my neutral. And yeah, me and Phresh had an awesome team (and would have done better if I hadn't played like crap games 1 & 3 v numerics and Shane).

Phresh, you play with such a patient wall, it's really strong. I honestly don't know if I have the patience for it, but Im gonna try my best. My goal is to be able to make an aggro wall in neutral. We'll see how this goes. Looking forward to experimenting.

 

[FirewaterDM]

I was watching PM Showdown and was so salty that RL stopped me from going. (Ironic because I managed to make it to blacklisted) but either way, good stuff both of you.

 

[ilysm]

I play a lot of ICs in Melee now and I was wondering; is there an easy way in Project M to do a dthrow on a platform without the other climber falling through? In Melee I can just gently tap down and it really helps with my platform handoffs but I can't get it to work in PM for the life of me.

 

[Samwisely]

Thinking about making a write-up for Melee IC converts this week. It'll start with the assumption that you know your way around our Inuits in Melee, and then cover some of the design changes, especially some of those that aren't as apparent (squall changes, up-b offensively, etc). I'm not as comfortable with Brawl style handoffs though. Could someone give me some info that you think I need to include?

Indigeau: It works the same as Melee in that regard. Might have a slightly different leniency range, but I do the same thing in both. I'd just mess with it a while longer.

 

[Sharkz]

I play a lot of ICs in Melee now and I was wondering; is there an easy way in Project M to do a dthrow on a platform without the other climber falling through? In Melee I can just gently tap down and it really helps with my platform handoffs but I can't get it to work in PM for the life of me.

Thanks to the changes in control stick inputs from Melee to Brawl, dthrowing without dropping is much more difficult in PM. I personally haven't found a better way to do it yet.

 

[Samwisely]

Thanks to the changes in control stick inputs from Melee to Brawl, dthrowing without dropping is much more difficult in PM. I personally haven't found a better way to do it yet.

Is it? I guess it never affected me all that much then.

 

[Psi Sig]

yea its really hard now, I've just been going to brawls yoshi and grinding it out

 

[Phresh123]

yea its really hard now, I've just been going to brawls yoshi and grinding it out

Same bro, been tryna implement some of Wobbles tricks on Yoshi's. Seems like the platforms are a lil higher though.

 

[ilysm]

I mean, you can immediately throw them while Nana is still in her grab animation, but that's kind of impractical and won't work for further handoffs past the first one. You can fthrow them to get a regrab, but you run out of space quickly and it doesn't solve the problem of trying to get dthrow-specific followups. You can shield with Nana, but that will either cause you to platform drop or spot-dodge, and spot-dodging will only work with heavier characters. So I guess there's nothing for it but to grind it out. Fun fun fun.

Also, keep in mind I'm still an ICs layman and am probably very wrong, but I noticed something odd the other day. Haven't gotten a chance to test it yet, but it seems Nana almost always favors fthrow on platforms in PM as opposed to Melee, where she will only throw to the edge she's closest to (I noticed this after regrabbing from an immediate dthrow on the Battlefield plat with my back up against the left edge of the platform-Nana would have surely done bthrow if Melee mechanics were in place). Mightn't that lead to a platform handoff that goes something like Popo fthrow -> Nana dash forward and pivot grab -> Nana fthrow -> Popo pivot grab -> repeat? This sounds like it would be a lot more potent than the typical ledge handoff because ideally you wouldn't run out of space. I hesitate to cry 'infinite' because as I understand it that's a bit of a buzz word around these boards and realistically there are probably places where the opponent can break out (I foresee a problem in letting the other climber catch up to get into position for the pivot grab). Or I'm just insane and that would never work. But I thought I'd mention it here, because this is the place to go for knowledgeable ICs mains.

 

[Psi Sig]

Thinking about making a write-up for Melee IC converts this week. It'll start with the assumption that you know your way around our Inuits in Melee, and then cover some of the design changes, especially some of those that aren't as apparent (squall changes, up-b offensively, etc). I'm not as comfortable with Brawl style handoffs though. Could someone give me some info that you think I need to include?
.

i think this is a great idea, definitely include Popo's influence range on Nana. I hated PM climbers until i got my head around using it effectively and not making nana die and early death on the ledge. difference in throwing mechanics, and the options we got out of downthrow

also I was looking in the brawl boards does anyone one know how many of these dysncs work in PM:http://smashboards.com/threads/guide-to-desynching-i-really-need-to-massively-revise-this.243922/
I'd like to compile a desync thread here rather then sending new players to other parts of the forum. It could be split into Melee desyncs, Brawl desyncs and new PM desyncs . thoughts?

 

[Hylian]

A lot of the brawl desynchs don't work because of the lack of buffering.

 

[Psi Sig]

thanks hylian <3

 

[Phresh123]

Been in the lab tonight..

So I learned that if you spotdodge desync, then HOLD the jump button, Nana will automatically land on the platforms on:

Warioware
Yoshi Island (Melee)
Fountain of Dreams

However, on Yoshi's it only works if your at the start of the platform under it. If you try to spotdodge towards the edge of the stage, Nana wont reach the platform.

Works best on Warioware and Fountain. If you time it right off the down throw, Nana can regrab and will automatically forward throw, which leads to Popo spike.

Probably some percentage numbers that comes into play. I'll leave it to you guys to find exact numbers. Also only been practicing this on Charizard, so I guess it works for all big characters.

 

[Psi Sig]

Nice work phresh, another tool in our ever growing arsenal.

So I've been digging through the icies boards finding desyncs in preparation for a desync master post for the PM boards
From Brawl:
http://pastebin.com/PPsDa4Dy

From Melee:
http://pastebin.com/mvBdw59s

These are the ones that either i couldn't do cause I'm still bad or just don't work
http://pastebin.com/7YW30vSk

if anyone could double check these it would be greatly appreciated. especially the the ones that i couldn't get, and these ones from melee: http://smashboards.com/threads/some-advanced-movement-options.410728/ I'm pretty sure that these will work, but I'm just not good enough at this point to execute these

 

[Phresh123]

I'll be in the lab now testing these out.

1:19am where I'm at and i'm bored out my mind so why not!

Edit: So far most of the brawl ones work

 

[Psi Sig]

thanks man i appreciate it
lol i feel you, i've been pretty bored out of my mind, my training buddy just went back to school so now i aint got no one play with on a consistent basis

 

[Phresh123]

Just hit you up check ya messages

 

[Hylian]

I think you can squall desynch.

It's interesting that you can RID. I thought that would be brawl specific. I guess I should have tested that considering I discovered that desynch lol.

 

[Phresh123]

Squall works; backdash smash desync was my favorite brawl one. Glad it works in PM as well. Timing is a bit more strict, though.

 

[Psi Sig]

@ Hylian the RID is so hard I've gotten it once so far

 

[Hylian]

@ Hylian the RID is so hard I've gotten it once so far

If you can RID you can probably do the b-reverse desynch using it as well.

 

[Psi Sig]

does nana l cancel?

 

[Psi Sig]

ok I just went through the list of things that didnt work again, found some more that do work, here is the new list of things that dont work.
http://pastebin.com/4t8f88hJ
I'm going over the advanced Melee stuff in debug mode after that I will start drafting up the format for the new Desync thread.

edit*
once again if anyone would like to double check my work it wold be greatly appreciate, I want to provide some good resources for our community

also figure I'd show you what was added just incase I made a mistake
Brawl: http://pastebin.com/3Hxfi8qS
Melee http://pastebin.com/9epRScPE

 

[Phresh123]

does nana l cancel?

Nope smh only wavedashes and wavelands

 

[Psi Sig]

Can anyone verify this one, I thought I may of gotten it to work earlier, but retesting again now I cant get it
Shield up B desynch

Only known way to desynch out of your shield. Simply shield upb, then hit an aerial attack. Nana gets throw up over Popo (not too high) and is able to do blizzard, ice block, or any aerial by herself. Popo has a little more lag on him than other desynchs, but its not significant. However, because of this lag, this desynch is one of the easiest to do. Highly recommended against characters you can't shield grab--shield up b desynch with a blizzard.

**Edit**
Ok just finished looking at the RID desync in debug mode and boy it is a doozy.
So to do the RIDd you have to dash backwards, holding the direction you are dashing in for 14 frames then releasing the control stick.
- If you hold it for 15 frames you both will do the what ever special you put it
- 13 and it just wont work
Then you 5 frames afterward input either ice block or blizzard
And 4 frames after that input a B-reverse

so doing the initial RIDd isnt to bad once you get the timing down, I've been getting semi-consistently after messing around with for a while. still working on the reversal part.

also found out we can desync of the slide thingy you do when you turn out of a run, not sure if it was in brawl but I'm too lazy to boot it up right now so I'm just going to put in the PM section for the desync guide. That being said what are some PM specific desyncs I need to put it

 

[Sharkz]

At TFC right now. Just beat Fatality in winners. Let's see how far this can go.

 

[Psi Sig]

At TFC right now. Just beat Fatality in winners. Let's see how far this can go.

you got this Sharkz!!! Stream?

 

[Sharkz]

No stream, but here's the bracket.

http://fzg.challonge.com/TFCPMS

 

[Phresh123]

So i been looking on youtube for things and ran into the footstall infinite again. This time, the person does it on multiple characters:

http://youtu.be/VVrSUjwbZPg

Also found this video that was made 2 days ago. Idk how useful this may be but maybe you guys can look into it too:

http://youtu.be/UX6l9REv1eY

 

[Psi Sig]

So i been looking on youtube for things and ran into the footstall infinite again. This time, the person does it on multiple characters:

http://youtu.be/VVrSUjwbZPg

Also found this video that was made 2 days ago. Idk how useful this may be but maybe you guys can look into it too:

http://youtu.be/UX6l9REv1eY

The second is abusing that Nana wont throw outside Popo's range of influence. Looks like f-throw into pivot grab, this leads into a 50/50 punish on whether or not they choose to go into the air or not. once people know about it they'll most likely always opt for the air allowing us to meteor to tech chase or something.

I'm curious if they had people mashing for the 1st one, I'll try to look into it when i get the chance

 

[941]

I would like to see the footstool infinite on one of the lightest characters like Puff or Metaknight. I'm not sure Nana has time to jump high enough to footstool with the faster throws.

 

[Psi Sig]

I'll start testing who we can footstool regrab, and who we can do it more than once to

 

[Laughman99]

I used the footstool re-grabs yesterday at the Smashing Grounds monthly and I noticed a couple of things.
1. Depending on the weight and percentage of the character, they can attempt to DI out of the footstool. Not saying its not an infinite, but it can make it very difficult. I noticed this on high percent Ganon, and mid percent Zelda. But I was able to do it on Luigi and Falcon just fine.
2. I then played a Fox on stream (I'll post the vod when its published) I started using it for tech chase options when the fox started SDIing my dair re-grabs. Also I didn't have the best practice at using footstools on all the cast so that's where my inability to perform it came from.

 

[Psi Sig]

Created a survey to go through the Desyncs that don't work, if anyone that could take the time to go through them and this it would be greatly appreciated; http://kwiksurveys.com/s/gPqtydIC

also can we get this thread stickyed

 

[Psi Sig]

finally found some 3.6 Fumbles, just skim through too tired to get times right now
http://www.twitch.tv/arcadelegacy/v/16524425
he has some really cool edgegaurds, switching climbers on the ledge and what not. good stuff