Clone Engine Misc. Discussion Thread

[9bit]

Boo this man

 

[Nausicaa]

It was DBZ in game-form or something. lol

Cheezy, you must not have read the quote.
Go read it.

 

[Friesnchip]

Do you guys realize that Golden Sun is like one of the most nonsensical rpgs writing-wise with terrible villians?

I will never understand the obsession with it, probably because it had pretty graphics and was widely available to Nintendo handheld fans in recent memory.

Not to get off topic, but if you think Golden Sun is one of the most nonsensical RPG's writing wise, your exposure to JRPG's in general must be pretty limited. And I genuinely loved the story and characters, I don't think it was too far-fetched. In fact, the main plot was actually fairly basic, with just a few big twists to engage the player.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

Cheezy, you must not have read the quote.
Go read it.

I did, and I still don't get how it makes him a no-brainer, if anything the last line makes him out to be unlikely.. His PURPOSE would be very different, but there's disagreements on how he should play, and the amount of work/impracticality of it still far outweighs that in my opinion. In every likelihood it can't be done, and if it can it probably won't because it's just not worth the effort when other easier characters could be used instead. Going all out means trying to get a 11 second 100 meter sprint; you're suggesting trying to beat 9.5 on their third practice.

He should be high on consideration, but I severely doubt he's possible, so he is anything but a shoo-in.

 

[Nausicaa]

As far as that category goes, that's exactly why he's to be considered above essentially everyone else in that category.

 

[SpiderMad]

Today's list
Shadow
Knuckles vs Rouge
Pichu vs Raichu
Cubone, Cougar, SotN Alukard, DmC3 Dante
AND someone from Metroid Hunters

Spoiler

 

[Tuvillo]

Really disagree on the Metroid Hunters, but Trace if anything. (He was severely iconic for the game's players, trust me.)

As for Golden Sun, I changed my mind. A character from here would be amazing (Still saying Felix or even Alex are MUCH cooler than Generic JRPG Protagonist X) but there's pitfalls in the concept.

Swordsman with magic, yeah? That means he needs to find a niche between Marth/Ike and Links by not using his Sword TOO much and not having projectiles with the same functionality as the Links. If you opt to not use his sword moves much at all, that'll inch closer in on Zelda's territory.

Edit: Actually, I guess he doesn't NEED to wield a sword- all his physical moves could be some form of Psynergy or Psynergy hands. Sounds fun- Giant Hand brawler.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'd actually love to see Dixie in! She's the one I'm most hoping for in Smash 4, now that Megaman and Animal Crosser have been announced.

Even she's a bit divisive, though. There are a lot of DK fans who love the series just as much as I do, but their top choice would be K. Rool over Dixie. I can't tell you how many times I've been screamed at on youtube for saying "I hope Dixie gets in!", haha.

Dixie Kong is not divisive. Its just that people want to see K. Rool get in over Dixie Kong for Smash 4. Many people who support K. Rool also support Dixie Kong, and vice versa.They just feel K. Rool is a higher priority.

Of course, people outside SmashBoards tend to be extremely immature. This is probably the only place mature Smash discussion can still happen.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Dixie Kong is not divisive. Its just that people want to see K. Rool get in over Dixie Kong for Smash 4. Many people who support K. Rool also support Dixie Kong, and vice versa.They just feel K. Rool is a higher priority.

Of course, people outside SmashBoards tend to be extremely immature. This is probably the only place mature Smash discussion can still happen.

I'd prefer Dixie over K-Rool myself. Smash is a sausage fest and needs more female fighters.

 

[SpiderMad]

Really disagree on the Metroid Hunters, but Trace if anything. (He was severely iconic for the game's players, trust me.)

How competitively did you play it?


Most of the suggestions I'm seeing in here are characters I wouldn't wanna play/don't fit my playstyle. Smash needs more badass cool and fast characters.

 

[ChronoBound]

Metroid Prime Hunters is basically tied with Other M for the most disdained game in the Metroid series. I don't think resources should be wasted on a one-shot character from an unpopular game in that series.

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

Actually, I guess he doesn't NEED to wield a sword- all his physical moves could be some form of Psynergy or Psynergy hands. Sounds fun- Giant Hand brawler.

For what it's worth, Isaac can use axes as well. I usually ended up giving them to Garet though, and regardless his signature move (Final Smash?) involves summoning a giant sword to slam down from the sky.

Also, I was thinking about K. Rool. Peach already takes off her crown for her fair. Could he jury-rig a "crown toss" attack without projectile edits by putting his crown in his hand, extending an invisible disjointed limb then retracting it?

 

[Chzrm3]

I'd prefer Dixie over K-Rool myself. Smash is a sausage fest and needs more female fighters.

: D I'd love her because one of my earliest video gaming memories is of playing DKC2 with my little brother every Saturday/Sunday morning as soon as we woke up. We didn't get an SNES right away, and when we did get it, one of my aunt's got me DKC2 from Funcoland. I still remember opening up that present, and being like "woah....."

That game kind of defined that era of my childhood. I ended up playing a bunch of SNES games, but the one I always came back to, and the one we could never beat, was DKC2.

Actually, I've still never beaten in. : >

But yeah! When Diddy was announced in Brawl, I was at the office and actually had to go outside because I had tears of beautiful nostalgia in my eyes, and didn't want to get made fun of for the next week. If Dixie got in, I'd probably have that same response haha.

I feel like there'd be something really satisfying about having DK, Diddy and Dixie all together, you know? The same kind of feel I get when I see Kirby, Meta and Dedede together. (Can't wait for that to happen in PM, too! :D)

 

[HyperrCrow]

Waluigi stuff

Dude, that moveset looks legit. I want Waluigi now, along with Sandbag.

No-one else has mentioned her on this thread... I think that speaks volumes for her popularity.

I love Blaze.. She would be amazing, I personally haven't brought her up because I refuse to even think about more 3rd party characters knowing what the PMBR have said. More 3rd parties can't be brought in because then they'll have another company keeping an eye on them and possibly making a move against them.

 

[Kati]

Metroid Prime Hunters is basically tied with Other M for the most disdained game in the Metroid series. I don't think resources should be wasted on a one-shot character from an unpopular game in that series.

Blasphemy. Hunters never received backlash comparable to Other M. It maintained a competitive community for years, sold more than twice as much when comparing their first month of sales and didn't provoke 20+ minute youtube videos documenting its failures. Hunters is an unimaginative game, and is only really worthwhile for Metroid fan, but it is still leagues better than Other M.

I have yet to see any character brought up that is worth the resources of the team, so I have to agree with you there.

 

[F. Blue]

Metroid Prime Hunters is basically tied with Other M for the most disdained game in the Metroid series. I don't think resources should be wasted on a one-shot character from an unpopular game in that series.

The Hunters from Metroid Prime Corruption are far more worthy of inclusion. Rundas would be my pick, but I'd take Ridley over any of them.

Also, since the 7 character limit will probably never be reached, maybe a slot could be reserved for a more creative, Wariomanesque final smash.

 

[SpiderMad]

I love Blaze.. She would be amazing, I personally haven't brought her up because I refuse to even think about more 3rd party characters knowing what the PMBR have said. More 3rd parties can't be brought in because then they'll have another company keeping an eye on them and possibly making a move against them.

http://projectmgame.com/en/news/clone-engine-blogpost-limits-restrictions-and-possibilities
First and foremost as a game mod, we are still under certain legal obligations and restrictions. To stay in Nintendo's good graces and to avoid attracting Cease & Desist letters from 3rd party companies, we are limiting our choice of new characters to those that Nintendo has already licensed for inclusion in Brawl. In other words, that restricts us to characters that already appear in the game in some way, such as trophies, assists, or stickers. Additionally, to avoid appearing as competition to Smash U/3DS sales in Nintendo's eyes, we do not have any plans to try to "back port" any new Smash 4 characters to Project M.

 

[HyperrCrow]

http://projectmgame.com/en/news/clone-engine-blogpost-limits-restrictions-and-possibilities
First and foremost as a game mod, we are still under certain legal obligations and restrictions. To stay in Nintendo's good graces and to avoid attracting Cease & Desist letters from 3rd party companies, we are limiting our choice of new characters to those that Nintendo has already licensed for inclusion in Brawl. In other words, that restricts us to characters that already appear in the game in some way, such as trophies, assists, or stickers. Additionally, to avoid appearing as competition to Smash U/3DS sales in Nintendo's eyes, we do not have any plans to try to "back port" any new Smash 4 characters to Project M.

Don't tease me like that Spider, I'll hunt you down.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

OMFG ADD GOKU AND RAIDEN AND ALL THE DUMBASS CHARS EVERYONE HATES FROM THE 3D SONIC UNIVERSE CUZ IM 12 AND THINK THEYRE KEWL
ur all ****, nerfed pichu is where its at
https://www.facebook.com/pichuforprojectm

 

[SpiderMad]

Don't tease me like that Spider, I'll hunt you down.

What? As far as I see it they can add her, that picture of her trophy in Brawl is real.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUuCpGRNLdU

Or did they mean Nintendo only stuff that was licensed for Brawl, because it didn't read that way

I wish Gotcha Force characters could be in P:M, G Red was a real G

 

[Burnsy]

Here's a video with a lot of great suggestions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3eTRB2kfsw

"I'm fisin' for a fight, brother!"

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I'll be honest - as exciting as the clone engine is, and as much as I love new Smash characters, I really think the Project M team should just stick to the guys from Melee.

It's not that I don't want any new characters, or that I'm being some kinda purist and saying "Make it exactly like Melee!" It's just that, looking through this thread, everyone has such wildly different opinions on who they'd like to get added. Some people want more third-parties, some people want retro characters, some people want niche characters like Chibi-Robo... all of those ideas are so awesome, but wouldn't it be weird to see Project M announce any of those guys? It would just suddenly make everything feel a little more hacked together.

I dunno. I'm probably just being stupid, tbh. But I think an ideal way for things to go down is for the PM guys to work on Mewtwo as well as making the Clone Engine something usable by other modders. Then they can pass it along to the Brawl modding community at large, and those teams can go ahead and add guys like Shadow and Ridley and all that.

The quality might not be as great as it'd be if the PM guys were the ones who'd made them, but it lets them focus on making PM as tightly balanced and awesome as possible. The rest of the modders could then fill up the remaining 5 slots with whoever they wanted, and people could kinda pick and choose what their additional 5 characters were, buffet style.

Mainly, it's hearing how much work it is - 700 hours? I don't want the PM guys to be saddled with those kind of workloads just to make really, really small portions of their fanbase happy, one at a time. That's a grueling work schedule!

Roy and Mewtwo are crowd pleasers. When we start getting into new characters, you'll have a small cluster of people who're really happy, and everyone else will be like "aww man! Time to wait 2 years to see if my guy gets in." I don't really think the excitement would be very sustainable, sadly.

But that's just as far as new characters go. The Clone Engine itself is the stuff of dreams, and the PM team are honestly geniuses of programming for figuring all this out! :D

Basically what I had thought few pages ago. Clone Engine seems like a realm of dreams but it just faces a bit too much offsets to truly do amazing job aside from what we can do the best right now (Bring back Roy and perhaps Mewtwo). If you add in Mewtwo, I think P:M would just be most completed in means of hype and polishment. It'd be perfect there in my opinion.

I mean yeah, it'd excite me to see some characters I wished to be in Brawl be playables but Smash Bros is such a huge game that ties in so much communities, you're basically getting Sakurai's share of pain on choosing characters. I mean yeah, you could go with ones that would please the MOST, but I don't believe it's worth risking P:M being already amazing in the future state (having Roy and Metwo back.)
Beside it might quite distant P:M from it's current direction and theming around it, making it feel lean towards the bad reputation with sub-par fanhacks or fan-made character adding. (Because really, this is a good one of a fanhack, there's no need to make it into those kind after you finally realize the full potential of this one.)


So I'll highly suggest just staying on Mewtwo if he's completed. The game would be just perfect then.

EDIT: On the potential characters I'd like to see, I'll throw Lyn, Dixie Kong, Ridley and Isaac.

 

[Yoki]

Third party characters are probably off limits even if they are technically in the game already as trophies. We're lucky that Nintendo has looked the other way so far, but a new character is not worth betting that Capcom or Konami will also choose look the other way when P:M's release hits IGN and such.

 

[moleman915]

So if Waluigi did somehow make it in, I'd like to nominate this as one of his taunts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6CLfZl0m88

 

[batistabus]

So if Waluigi did somehow make it in, I'd like to nominate this as one of his taunts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6CLfZl0m88

Yes yes yes yes one BILLION times yes.

 

[MVP]

So if Waluigi did somehow make it in, I'd like to nominate this as one of his taunts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6CLfZl0m88

as much as i love that taunt, i think we have enough mario characters in Smash already

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I think we have enough Mario and Pokemon reps, even Zelda is pushing it if the only other consideration is toon zelda -_-

Glad to see support for Shadow, I honestly think he's the best choice, even though I'd also love to see K. Rool, Mewtwo is just a given

And dude. Golden Sun is was crazy popular. It's an RPG duet for the GBA (and a 3rd game for the DS). It came out in 2001 so I can imagine maybe some younger people not knowing it, but damn man you gotta play the first two. They're incredible.

I'm just saying I've never heard of it, in fact I've never seen anyone playing a handheld gaming system since I was 8 or 9 playing pokemon red and blue, I never thought handheld games were popular outside pokemon

 

[MVP]

I think we have enough Mario and Pokemon reps, even Zelda is pushing it if the only other consideration is toon zelda -_-

Glad to see support for Shadow, I honestly think he's the best choice, even though I'd also love to see K. Rool, Mewtwo is just a given

k. rool all the way



repost

I think the following games have enough rep

Pokemon: exception of mewtwo cause melee
Star fox: 3 characters
Fire Emblem: 3 characters
Mario: 5 characters
Kirby: soon to be 3 characters
Zelda: 5 characters

Lets branch out a little to some of the other game series

DK
Metroid

Or even introduce a new series.

Metroid- rundas

 

[Friesnchip]

I don't want to be rude, honestly I don't, but can someone explain why there is such a major push for another Sonic character? I mean, I certainly like the games enough, and the Blue Blur's initial inclusion was great, but isn't the focus of SSB on the Nintendo characters? And if a Sonic rep had to be added, shouldn't it be Tails over a character added 10 years after the fact? I understand Shadow, who seems to be getting to most push, would work the best within the clone engine (ironically) and save development time... but it doesn't make sense to me.

That's like adding Mario to SSB, skipping over Luigi, and going straight to Wario.
Or having Ryu in Street Fighter, leaving out Ken, and including Akuma in his place.
Or making a new Mortal Combat with Scorpion, forgetting Sub-Zero, and adding Reptile as a replacement.
Or insert another example from a popular fighting game here.

That is my opinion anyway. No offense to those who want Shadow, but I'm not so keen on the idea myself.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

I don't want to be rude, honestly I don't, but can someone explain why there is such a major push for another Sonic character? I mean, I certainly like the games enough, and the Blue Blur's initial inclusion was great, but isn't the focus of SSB on the Nintendo characters? And if a Sonic rep had to be added, shouldn't it be Tails over a character added 10 years after the fact? I understand Shadow, who seems to be getting to most push, would work the best within the clone engine (ironically) and save development time... but it doesn't make sense to me.

I agree with Tails superiority, and add Knuckles. The reasons are them working in the Clone Engine and the chance of being very different in playstyle. Secondly, and the reason I personally push for them (and I hope I'm not alone) is that exact reason. SSB is about Nintendo, so their inclusion in SSB4 is unlikely; adding Tails and Knuckles to Project M would be doing something that we are unlikely to see in the official release. It would be something to make P:M unique (well more so). It also is likely our only chance to see Tails and Knuckles in a smash styled crossover fighter like this, which I would very much like to see.

 

[Nausicaa]

Agreed^ + ^


Might as well add Daisy and Waluigi while they're at it.


Seriously, that post (the one I made 3 pages back and referred to multiple times) should be sticky, or bumped to the next post every time someone mentions something outside of the categories that matter. Shadic's post too, which is just a few above or below it.

 

[Chzrm3]

You guys might hate me for saying this, but I almost wonder if it'd be better if the PM guys eventually did some clones as characters (with one or two different moves, so along the lines of TL or Ganon).

I'm only saying this because that drastically reduces the amount of time required on their end, and lets be honest - we might be disappointed when we find out someone's a clone initially, but it's a pretty valid way of making a new character. I never play Adult Link but I love TL/loved Young Link, and I never play Falcon but I love Ganondorf. It kind of opens up the playstyle to a whole new segment of people, who otherwise wouldn't be interested.

I'm mentioning this because I see talk about Tails now, and I feel like he's a pretty good candidate. (again, please don't kill me for saying this! Sorry!) If you made him a slower, slightly stronger Sonic who had a different recovery (his tails, ofc! they could probably replace his homing attack, because I don't think Tails ever did that), and give him a couple different aerials or tilts that also make use of his tails, he could probably be a pretty satisfying character to play as. He'd definitely feel like Sonic's partner, in the same way Falco and Fox definitely feel like they had the same training and come from the same squad. It's kind of this cool upside to someone being a clone, when it fits thematically like that.

But the main reason, again, is cause it asks significantly less of the PMBR. That would still probably be a tremendous amount of work, but I'd imagine you wouldn't be pushing into the "700 hours" territory, all the same.

It also is likely our only chance to see Tails and Knuckles in a smash styled crossover fighter like this, which I would very much like to see.

Man, I'd really love it if SEGA did their own version of Smash. I feel like it'll probably never happen now, since Sonic was in Smash and Sega and Nintendo have a pretty close relationship, so they wouldn't want to tread on anyone's toes... at the same time, that Sonic and All-Stars racing series has had two games now, so the "franchise mash-up" formula is working well for them.

Imagine a Sega smash bros with Atlus characters, too? Mmf, it's almost too good.

 

[Friesnchip]

You guys might hate me for saying this, but I almost wonder if it'd be better if the PM guys eventually did some clones as characters (with one or two different moves, so along the lines of TL or Ganon).

I'm only saying this because that drastically reduces the amount of time required on their end, and lets be honest - we might be disappointed when we find out someone's a clone initially, but it's a pretty valid way of making a new character.

On my end, this has been a given. Roy is an obvious example of this concept, and it has been stressed already by P:M that this clone process is inevitable. Mewtwo, the 'obvious shoo-in' at this point, will be pretty much his own character as Lucario is nowhere near similar after his P:M redesign, meaning it will already take a lot of time to create a second addition to the roster.

This means the third possible character will basically NEED to be a clone to save time after Roy and, we suspect, Mewtwo. So as much as I'm dying to play as Isaac for example, we need to keep time constraints in mind.

 

[Tuvillo]

SEGA Tennis mash-up was a thing. A bad thing.

As for clones, it's a really good idea, but this just reminds me of how disappointed I was as a kid, every time I unlocked a new character and it was a clone.

 

[Mera Mera]

I know there are a lot of Mario reps already, but I'm surprised no one is interested in Paper Mario joining. I think he'd be interesting though admittedly I haven't even played the games. But from what little I've seen, it seems like there'd be plenty of things to differentiate him from Mario. And I'm guessing (though not positive) that it'd be easier to animate a 2D character than a 3D one.

 

[Veishi336]

Is anyone other than me completely tired of seeing mario reps.?....i am...why dont we just make it Mario Smash bros..>_> anywho i just like the addition of roy and the suspicion of mewtwo. I pray to god no other pokemon is added. I just know that all of these additions that we want would take about a year or more to just add in (guesstimating). Everyone is asking for every character in the book it seems like. Maybe one other clone char would be enough after mewtwo and roy. i cant honestly give a suggestion on what character should be added since there are so many options available. But hey give PM their props and respect them for what they are giving us now. Hopefully Nintendo wont do anything to mess up the progress.

 

[Juushichi]

you should put waluigi and toad in, imo

 

[SpiderMad]

you should put waluigi and toad in, imo

Toads in Peach's Neutral-b though

 

[Juushichi]

He should be his own character, imo. You've got the model.

Just replace him with something else.

 

[SpiderMad]

We need more characters with actual limbs, not this puffball bull crap half the cast is working with