Cincinnati House Tournament - Tyr vs. Overswarm and Tactical

[lil cj]

campy toon links are so stupid. campy snakes are wayyy easier to deal with than a campy toon link.
my worst is peach =[

Ive had a few problems with Peach too
I fought one that kept gimping me with turnips...lol(i didnt expect that)
But she has a tough time killing...thats her only flaw
Ive seen some very good Peach's...I hav a new respect for her now
Ive decided to pick her up as my 4th main...but shes a lil difficult to learn....lol
Btw how was your match with Peachy's Peach in Reo's Tourny?

 

[clowsui]

tyr come over to e_'s house sometime, i'm tired of playing the same opponent five jillion times over

 

[ToxiCrow]

Three rules when fighting mk
1. NEVER edgeguard unless hes already used a recovery move and cant hit you.
2. Never let yourself open, he will punish you with his non-laggy attacks.

1.2) Use PK Thunder as an edgeguard. It's safe, and he cant KO you when you're using it if he's off the stage. Try to catch him when he's gliding.
3) PK FIRE IS YOUR FRIEND! use it to keep MK away from you.
4) You can break him out of mach tornado with 4 of your moves: PKT, PKF, Dair and Pivot Grab.
5) unless MK is on his last stock and on high percentages and ur damage is low, NEVER USE UPSMASH!

 

[Levitas]

5) unless MK is on his last stock and on high percentages and ur damage is low, NEVER USE UPSMASH!

No reason not to use it if it'll hit. And by that I mean use it on guaranteed setups, like when he's in helpless for some reason sufficiently high, or if he's got a broken shield.

So yeah, never use it.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

hmm alot of b!tching in here i see lol.
Also, sin is an OK lucario at best nothing more.

Anyways, if you want to get better just come to the east coast......that simple. lol

QFT

Ive had a few problems with Peach too
I fought one that kept gimping me with turnips...lol(i didnt expect that)
But she has a tough time killing...thats her only flaw
Ive seen some very good Peach's...I hav a new respect for her now
Ive decided to pick her up as my 4th main...but shes a lil difficult to learn....lol
Btw how was your match with Peachy's Peach in Reo's Tourny?

oh that set was full of lulz
i was winning 2-0
then we randomly stopped and had to start over.
then she was winning 2-1
then we just stopped altogether and called it a draw (technically i won )

1.2) Use PK Thunder as an edgeguard. It's safe, and he cant KO you when you're using it if he's off the stage. Try to catch him when he's gliding.
3) PK FIRE IS YOUR FRIEND! use it to keep MK away from you.
4) You can break him out of mach tornado with 4 of your moves: PKT, PKF, Dair and Pivot Grab.
5) unless MK is on his last stock and on high percentages and ur damage is low, NEVER USE UPSMASH!

2) PKT edgeguarding is pretty much the only option. you can pk freeze once when he's FAR away from the stage just for you know... trying. after that you can PKT other than that ehh... nothing's safe
if you're risky you could try to jump above him and time your bair spike to outprioritize his shuttle loop.
3) i use PK fire to keep him away, but more to force an mistake on the opponents end. pretty much as a trap.
4) you forgot nair, Dsmash, usmash and a perfectly spaced fsmash.
of course not all of those are likely to be used.
5) lol.

No reason not to use it if it'll hit. And by that I mean use it on guaranteed setups, like when he's in helpless for some reason sufficiently high, or if he's got a broken shield.

So yeah, never use it.

not never predict shuttle loop to glide attack.
as soon as shuttle loop begins. just time usmash to hit him. and it's not like it's hard to see coming. it also is a frequently used move.

 

[Tyr_03]

MK can stop PK Thunder edgeguarding by glide attacking it, so you need to tail whip first for the best results.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

MK can stop PK Thunder edgeguarding by glide attacking it, so you need to tail whip first for the best results.

This.
10tailwhips

 

[ToxiCrow]

MK can stop PK Thunder edgeguarding by glide attacking it, so you need to tail whip first for the best results.

Tyr:
thats what i meant lol
and if he uses his glide attack when he's far off from the stage, he'll fall to his death

4) you forgot nair, Dsmash, usmash and a perfectly spaced fsmash.
of course not all of those are likely to be used.

i stand corrected.

 

[Tyr_03]

^^^
MK's keep their jumps when gliding. This is before shuttleloop we're talking about.

One thing I really need to work on is expecting the Dsmash. MK's tend to overuse it and I could punish it if I just keep my shield up through some things.

 

[ToxiCrow]

ooh word.
downsmash is such a pain. i think it's something all of us as a whole need to work on

EDIT: ok i'm really not trying to piss anyone off here, but it's been a long time since i last played brawl.
i no if pit does an attack while he's gliding, he falls to helpless state. does MK fall if he attacks with his normal glide? (meaning not shuttle loop)

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

Don't trip, and no, because you can save jumps for after the glide. You can do this with Charizard, Pit, and MK.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

i stand corrected.

haha don't take any offense to that. I wasn't really correcting you, just adding on to what you already said.

 

[prOAPC]

if MK hits PKT's head with a glide attack, does Lucas have enough time to use another PKT and try to hit him again? MK can use the glide once, exept for the upB

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

One thing I really need to work on is expecting the Dsmash. MK's tend to overuse it and I could punish it if I just keep my shield up through some things.

depends on the mk player for me. bad to average MK's use it too much. they use it to punish, kill and cover they're mistakes. on those you should be able to anticipate it, drop shield and ftilt or at the least jab. with characters with faster grabs i.e. marth and snake, shield grabbing easily takes care of that and his glide attack.

ehh straying away from my original point. better MK's seem to use it sparringly. they punish with dtilt, ftilt, dair, nair, dash, grab shuttle loop OoS, and dsmash. kill by gimping, nair fsmash, dsmash, glide attack, and even shuttle loop occasionly. so... it gets harder to predict, because he has so many mix ups and expecting the Dsmash is kind of hard to do, though his dsmash is punishable with utilt, ftilt, jab, dair, fair and nair. for the aerials you HAVE to Powershield to punish with them.

 

[Natch]

Use Dair on MK when you're above him. Your Dair doesn't outprioritize his Uair per-se, but he has only 1 frame to pull out a Uair before being hit. It works. If MK's on the ground, don't bother. His Utilt beats out your Dair.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

Use Dair on MK when you're above him. Your Dair doesn't outprioritize his Uair per-se, but he has only 1 frame to pull out a Uair before being hit. It works. If MK's on the ground, don't bother. His Utilt beats out your Dair.

how about just dont get above meta knight....thats the worst place to be against him XD

 

[Levitas]

I think the worst place to be against metaknight is within Ness's melee grab range of the death boundry. As long as you never enter that range, you'll either win or the game will last until the time runs out.

 

[ToxiCrow]

haha don't take any offense to that. I wasn't really correcting you, just adding on to what you already said.

lol it's alll good; i dont get offended easily
i meant i wont try to piss people off in case my question with the glide attack kept going in circles

how about just dont get above meta knight....thats the worst place to be against him XD

thats very true. being on a platform or in the air above him is such a bad idea. if we make a thread on fighting MK, this is going on it

 

[Noraa]

Use Dair on MK when you're above him. Your Dair doesn't outprioritize his Uair per-se, but he has only 1 frame to pull out a Uair before being hit. It works. If MK's on the ground, don't bother. His Utilt beats out your Dair.

***** i thought you were gone lol.

 

[lil cj]

I was jus curious but...
does anyone else have trouble with Kirby?
I hav the most difficulty with him out of all the characters
He is so short its hard to hit him with nairs and SH pk fires
and he out prioritizes Lucas in the air

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

I was jus curious but...
does anyone else have trouble with Kirby?
I hav the most difficulty with him out of all the characters
He is so short its hard to hit him with nairs and SH pk fires
and he out prioritizes Lucas in the air

kirby has good spacing as a character. for the most part, if you can space yourself well, you can do well.

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

dair camp kirby on battlefield using full hops. Kirby can't attack above him that well except for his upsmash. And if he approaches from the air to the side of you, space with pkfire and repeatedly try to get above him.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

dair camp kirby on battlefield using full hops. Kirby can't attack above him that well except for his upsmash. And if he approaches from the air to the side of you, space with pkfire and repeatedly try to get above him.

utilt from kirby is quick and does pretty well against us. constantly staying above him is a bad idea. we'll get predictable and kirby can just move into bair range and bair us.

 

[lil cj]

Here are Lucas' worst match ups in order:

G&W
MK
Marth
Peach(just lost to one today...lol)
DK
Kirby

Everyone is not a problem for Lucas

 

[Tyr_03]

Peach is definetly not a worse matchup than DK. She's not that bad all things considered. Kirby really isn't terrible either.

With Lucas there is no "easy" matchup. There's pretty much no character that we really ****. I guess Captain Falcon probably comes closest but compared to how bad MK, Snake or Diddy for example can **** certain characters, we really have nothing.

 

[prOAPC]

don't forget olimar, toon link, ness, snake...
this thread is getting better than the match up thread

 

[ToxiCrow]

you guys really think peach is that bad of a match up??

and tyr, we can also **** link, jiggs, PT, and ganon....but thats really not much lol

 

[prOAPC]

jiggs can gimp lucas
for me, Peach is a little bad, her aerials has a better hitbox and priority than our grounded attacks (utilt, ftilt), and after a (auto)cancelled fair, if she uses her jabs, they look faster than Lucas jabs :S

 

[Masky]

MM VS. Overswarm (Metaknight)
Overswarm challenged me to a money match with 2 to 1 odds in his favor if it was all on Brinstar my favorite stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSRu7VFdRk8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU2C3a-IASU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJP0EDxd64A&feature=related

I'm not gonna read all the replies but you know Brinstar is MK's best CP right? Sounds like Overswarm was just being a ****

 

[Tyr_03]

Brinstar isn't MK's best counterpick. It's a decent MK counterpick. And the point was we were doing it because it's my favorite stage, not because it was a good counterpick. It was mostly for fun.

 

[lil cj]

you guys really think peach is that bad of a match up??

and tyr, we can also **** link, jiggs, PT, and ganon....but thats really not much lol

Have you ever played a really good Peach?
shes dangerous....lol
I always like fighting Ganon...he's like a punching bag to Lucas

 

[Tyr_03]

The trouble with Brawl is that despite what some will say, there are no worthless characters. The characters that are considered worthless are that way because of Metaknight, Snake and Dedede for the most part. Ness for example is considered by the majority to be a worthless character almost solely because of his weakness against Marth. However, Ness actually has the advantage against Lucas. I have played Sheik players, Ganondorf players and Bowser players who have all given me quite a run for my money. Sliq has one badass Bowser and his Ganon back when he still played him was annoyingly good as well.

If you're playing Metaknight you can sometimes assume you will have no trouble with a given matchup. Some characters against MK are practically impossible even if you are at the same or higher playing level than the opponent. I'm sure this could be argued, but the tournament results don't really lie.

Basically, never assume that winning is a foregone conclusion with Lucas. If you're not a better fighter than your opponent, you're not going to win even if they're playing an even ****tier character than you are.

 

[lil cj]

You explained that very well Tyr
But Dedede?
all he has is his chain grab
Diddy shuts alot of characters down(even MK) more so than Dedede IMO
Yeah your right Lucas does hav alot of trouble with a majority of the characters
but that should soon change once we find out more about his match ups

 

[Tyr_03]

Dedede has standing grab infinites on Luigi, Samus and Bowser if I remember correctly. And that chaingrab is deadly considering how easy it is to punish in Brawl. Plus it gives an infinite on stages with walls. Not to mention he's heavy with multiple jumps, a strong Utilt for killing, great edgeguarding with Bair and a spammable projectile. Oh yea and his Ftilt outspace pretty much every character on the ground. We're lucky that Lucas actually does decently well against Dedede to the point that it's more or less even. A lot of other characters are not nearly so lucky.

And yea Diddy is ridiculous too. Easily the most annoying character in the game. And he definetly doesn't shut down MK, he's just one of very few characters who goes almost kind of even with him.

 

[prOAPC]

Easily the most annoying character in the game.

*runs to learn and practice with Diddy*

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

you guys really think peach is that bad of a match up??

and tyr, we can also **** link, jiggs, PT, and ganon....but thats really not much lol

all you did was list off some of the bottem tier characters, and from what I can see you have never played a person that plays any of those characters well at all. I can tell you right now that the only character on that list that lucas even comes close to "******" is ganon and even then I dont consider it ****

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

You explained that very well Tyr
But Dedede?
all he has is his chain grab
Diddy shuts alot of characters down(even MK) more so than Dedede IMO
Yeah your right Lucas does hav alot of trouble with a majority of the characters
but that should soon change once we find out more about his match ups

That's all he needs.
ok not really, but he shuts down pretty much every character mid tier and lower. even some on high tier are unplayable against him (Wario, Wolf, DK). Dedede definitely shuts down more characters than anyone else. you can't even play Dedede dittos due to his infinite.

Lol no character shuts down MK

Dedede has standing grab infinites on Luigi, Samus and Bowser if I remember correctly. And that chaingrab is deadly considering how easy it is to punish in Brawl. Plus it gives an infinite on stages with walls. Not to mention he's heavy with multiple jumps, a strong Utilt for killing, great edgeguarding with Bair and a spammable projectile. Oh yea and his Ftilt outspace pretty much every character on the ground. We're lucky that Lucas actually does decently well against Dedede to the point that it's more or less even. A lot of other characters are not nearly so lucky.

And yea Diddy is ridiculous too. Easily the most annoying character in the game. And he definetly doesn't shut down MK, he's just one of very few characters who goes almost kind of even with him.

He also infinites Mario, DK, and to some extent himself.
i think he can walking CG wolf, wario, and Ganon as well.
basicaly he nets 0-death for 6 chars and 0-almost for 3.

9 unplayable characters against him, ONLY counting due to infinites and his walking CG.

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

Things to practice and study.

I want to see someone beat Emblem Lord-level Marth with Lucas. I must learn this match-up til it drives me nuts. It's so frustratingly hard.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Things to practice and study.

I want to see someone beat Emblem Lord-level Marth with Lucas. I must learn this match-up til it drives me nuts. It's so frustratingly hard.

EL's marth isn't that good. he said it himself. however, he is very knowledgable about his char. hmm reminds me of Levitas. How about a marth around...*pauses to think* (Roy r is too good. NEO is deff too good.) oh! how about hype or pierce?

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

Don't know any good Marths outside of BoA or Havok... Emblem_Lord was my attempt at taking a shot in the dark with "popular" names. Haha.