I'm moving this when I find somewhere to put it.
Oh lord, the Ness vs. Ike bull**** is here, too?
I don't even know why the Ness players think he's so good when he's probably played less than Ike for several reasons (one of those being that
he sucks) and how Ness is rarely, rarely better off than Ike in tourney results. He has a mediocre approach and a mediocre defensive game (which is bad because most everyone else who doesn't suck so hard at least has one or the other), he's simple to shut down if you learn his glaringly weaker areas and take advantage of his poor-anything but aerials, PK Thunder, and throws, and most everyone has a few moves that can be used to answer reliably to everything he can do.
Ness is a poor character. Sure, people can say, "Well Ike is only decent because of his jab and nair", which may be true to a small extent, but that doesn't hide how Ness's fair is the main reason why his aerials are held in any regard, his b-throw is the main reason why people don't want to be grabbed by him, and his PKT is why people think his specials are good. Take away any of those, and suddenly nobody cares about what Ness can do, because most of his game revolves around trying to get his opponent off of the stage and to get an early kill (with a gimp or PKT2) because everything else he can do is so unbelievably easy to see coming that he's basically a character that thrives off of your mistakes, and while most characters who thrive off of that aren't really the greatest, they're all certainly better than Ness in more important areas (defensive abilities, needing fewer mistakes to win, etc.)
Ike just happens to be a much better punisher than Ness and his attacks are so much better than whatever Ness can do that even if you can read some of his moves, you can't reliably punish him for it... all while risking getting your **** wrecked earlier from more than what Ness can offer (PKT2). Ness sucks. Get over it.
1. Yeah, mostly opinion; it's pretty close but I'd give the edge to Ness since his double jump is far superior and therefore won't be in a gimpable position as often as Ike (even if Ness is a little easier to gimp).
Ness has an incredibly slow double-jump. Sure, he can airdodge past his opponent, but who cares when you move so slow that you can just wait for the apex of said jump and attack, forcing Ness to airdodge and probably miss the edge (since he's not going to be trying to jump significantly higher than the ****ing ledge in the first place)? At least with Ike, he can always choose to save his jump when it won't reach the ledge, because Aether is very hard and risky to gimp while you're off the stage... at least compared to PKT, which you can just use to your advantage by falling around Ness and taking the hit. DI away from the stage to avoid a stupid death, and recover thanks to Ness. Stupidly easy.
2. So can Ness.
3. lolno.
2. Both of them probably won't be killing their opponents below 50% anyway, but hey, at least Ike is still killing earlier than Ness.
3. You're a fool if you think Ness's fair blows Ike's out the water. There are very, very few attacks that can answer well to Ike's fair (and those attacks would be Samus with her zair, Zamus with her Side B, and a few other moves that I'm not immediately thinking about). Ness's fair is good, but it can still be outranged and beaten by quite a few aerials. I have personally lightning kicked
through Ness's fair, taking 2% and dealing 20% in return, quite a few times. When your safest aerial can be answered to by a good chunk of attacks in the game, you're not really in a position to laugh at Ike's fair.
5. Yeah, it's also slow as balls (all the attacks that aren't slow as balls don't have better range than Ness).
Stupid rebuttal, because Ness's Dsmash, dash attack, and Usmash lag just as much as Ike's most ranged attacks and suck harder, doing a poor job at killing and following up at most %s. Hell, his yo-yos are so fickle that if the opponent DIs the first hit in a certain way, you can fall out and punish Ness easily.
On the other hand, you have Ike's fair, which doesn't lag when he lands on the ground properly and is a ****ing wall that you're probably not getting through if you're not Sheik, Sonic, MK, C. Falcon, or someone who is very fast. You have Ike's bair, which sports range that Ness can barely match up to in the air... but still comes out fast on ~Frame 6, something that isn't "slow as balls." His uair's range is beating out most things in the game with a sexy *** lingering hitbox added to it. Characters with poor range (like Ness) can't deal with that. The rest of his ranged attacks do suffer quite a bit of unhappy lag, but it doesn't matter because the attacks that Ness have which are significantly faster anyway... suck like hell in range.
Ike's range >>>> Ness's speed, which isn't even spectacular in the first place.
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6. Ness doesn't either. FFS people stop perpetuating this. It's been disproven months ago. People (bad Ness mains) need to learn to EIDI and/or jump-mash.
You must be a bad Ness main, because Ness can still be forced to a ground-release and hit by Marth, Bowser, DK, Sheik, and many others from the cast with a plethora of moves still. If it hits Ike, it sure as hell hits Ness, but not the other way around.
Don't try to pretend that just because Ness can escape Marth's standing grab that it's all gone. It was a step in a good direction for Ness, but don't sit here with that bull**** and say, "Oh, Ness isn't affected by GR stuff" when you should know for a fact that he's still incredibly gayed by it.
