Character Exploration Thread - Day 79: Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)

[Gengar84]

What would you guys like to see for bosses or assist trophies? I assume Sans and Papyrus would make the most sense got assists but I don’t really know any other characters or bosses.

 

[GolisoPower]

I'd say Metaton could be a good Assist Trophy. His summoning could give every fighter a Ratings meter for all fighters. While he's summoned, he could directly attack enemies that have lower Ratings, but Fighters can boost their ratings by using flashy attacks and perhaps even taunting, too.

 

[Paraster]

What would you guys like to see for bosses or assist trophies? I assume Sans and Papyrus would make the most sense got assists but I don’t really know any other characters or bosses.

Seconding Mettaton.

Also, I think Undyne could be a good one. She fights with her spears, and will just despawn eventually if left alone. If someone manages to KO her, though...they'd better be ready for some undying rage.

Asriel would, I think, be the best boss, though the character is very spoilery.

 

[SharkLord]

Alright ahemtoday , let's move over before I forget

 

[ahemtoday]

NOMs, too, is an acronym. It stands for Nightmare on Me. Every time you earn a nom, it gives me another sleepless night. Truly, such a thing is evil.

Seriously, though: "Execution Points" and "Level of Violence" are the goofiest things ever.

Spoiler

Rie Sonomura x5 (10 Total)
Technomage x10 (15 Total)
Paraster x20 (25 Total)
GolisoPower x25 (30 Total)
Eldrake x10 (15 Total)
ZelDan x15 (20 Total)
Gengar84 x10 (15 Total)
amageish x10 (15 Total)
Commander_Alph x5 (10 Total)
SharkLord x5 (10 Total)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Let me spend my noms in advance

Octoling x5
Ori x5

 

[Technomage]

15 noms on Chun-Li.

 

[Gengar84]

I’ll put all mine (15x) towards the Astral Chain rep.

 

[GolisoPower]

Noms:
15x Warframe rep
15x Officer Howard

 

[Paraster]

Noms: Hat Kid x10, Heavy x15

I'll make a Wilfre thread myself eventually.

 

[Eldrake]

Putting my 15 noms on Gordon Freeman.

 

[ZelDan]

x5 Bill/Lance
x5 Isaac (Golden Sun)
x10 Shovel Knight

 

[Perkilator]

Noms:
Sir Arthur x5

 

[Technomage]

Since Lu Bu is based on a real-life historical figure, would that prohibit him from getting into Smash? Or is his situation similar to Dracula's?

 

[GolisoPower]

Lu Bu is a very, VERY interesting case, more so than Dracula. Unlike the aforementioned vampire lord, Lu Bu was not based on a book character, but an actual historical figure. Now the only Warriors games I've ever played were Hyrule Warriors and Age of Calamity (Though I guess they kinda don't count. Probably.), so I can kind of understand how the gameplay of Dynasty Warriors works. As for his moveset, Lu Bu is very unique in the sense that he's a polearm user, which we technically already have with Byleth, but in comparison, the halberd is much more involved. Maybe as a bonus detail, Lu Bu could be able to attack his own teammate in Team Battles, due to his habit of betraying everyone. This dude's basically the Akuma of Dynasty Warriors from my understanding, and it would be really interesting to see how the Dynasty Warriors gameplay can transition into Smash.

Either way, interpretations of historical characters would be sort of big for Smash. At least, the pre-modern historical figures, since another game with an abundance of historical figures, F/GO, probably won't make their own interpretations of Walt Disney or Bill Gates.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Since Lu Bu is based on a real-life historical figure, would that prohibit him from getting into Smash? Or is his situation similar to Dracula's?

He's a fictionalised version of a fictionalised version of a fictionalised version of a real person who may or may not exist.

My head hurts just thinking about it...

 

[Gengar84]

Since Lu Bu is based on a real-life historical figure, would that prohibit him from getting into Smash? Or is his situation similar to Dracula's?

That’s a really tough question but one that needs to be asked. Personally, I’m totally fine with Lu Bu in Smash. His character in Dynasty Warriors is so divorced from who he was in real life that he almost counts as an original character. As chocolatejr9 alluded to, Dynasty Warriors is loosely based on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novels, which were themselves fictionalized versions of ancient Chinese history.

 

[amageish]

I think Dynasty Warriors is actually based on the Records of the Three Kingdoms - the history - and the English version just pretends it is based on the more famous Romance of the Three Kingdoms for the sake of marketing? Which is very confusing and weird...

Since Lu Bu is based on a real-life historical figure, would that prohibit him from getting into Smash? Or is his situation similar to Dracula's?

Personally, I have 0 concern about video game versions of characters who are not originally from video games getting into Smash. Sakurai is a human being; he can decide that Lu Bu counts as a video game character without also adding Spongebob.

Not to mention that we already have plenty of spirits and costumes and even characters loosely inspired by public domain figures. Goku & Chao are spirits, as is Henry Fleming. Goemon is a Mii Costume. Then we have... everything in Kid Icarus being off-brand versions of Greek mythology, down to the autocorrected version of Pallas Athena as its main goddess. We're doing fine.

 

[Flyboy]

Lu Bu and Dynasty Warriors in general feels like Dracula from Castlevania - loosely based on a public domain book but has enough divergent evolution to feel like their own character. I think Lu Bu is a pretty interesting choice, too, because I can say he's definitely (as someone who has never played a game in the series) the most iconic character that everyone talks about. I wonder how you would put Dynasty Warriors mechanics in Smash? I feel like the ability to take down armies would be pretty important for game feel, no? Perhaps some kind of mechanic like ROB's beam or Aura, where you perform actions to eventually build to a screen-clearing special? I'm not sure.

Also, hi! I'm not actually entirely sure how this thread works. Do I get to nominate Ichiban Kasuga? I want to nominate Ichiban Kasuga.

Ichiban x5

 

[SharkLord]

Lu Bu and Dynasty Warriors in general feels like Dracula from Castlevania - loosely based on a public domain book but has enough divergent evolution to feel like their own character. I think Lu Bu is a pretty interesting choice, too, because I cans ay he's definitely (as someone who has never played a game in the series) the most iconic character that everyone talks about. I wonder how you would put Dynasty Warriors mechanics in Smash? I feel like the ability to take down armies would be pretty important for game feel, no? Perhaps some kind of mechanic like ROB's beam or Aura, where you perform actions to eventually build to a screen-clearing special? I'm not sure.

Also, hi! I'm not actually entirely sure how this thread works. Do I get to nominate Ichiban Kasuga? I want to nominate Ichiban Kasuga.

Basically, you get five noms by default. By submitting stuff like movesets, stages, and big writeups, you can score extra noms for the next turn. As of current, you be able to nom Ichiban for five noms.

On that note I should probably start nomming again myself. Nomination: Madeleine x10

 

[GolisoPower]

You know, thinking about it, I could imagine Lu Bu's Classic Mode being based on all the masters he betrayed over his lifetime. Like Ganondorf representing Ding Yuan, King K. Rool representing Dong Zhuo, Chrom representing Yuan Shao, etc.

That, or it could be themed after various warlords already in Smash Bros.

 

[Gengar84]

You know, thinking about it, I could imagine Lu Bu's Classic Mode being based on all the masters he betrayed over his lifetime. Like Ganondorf representing Ding Yuan, King K. Rool representing Dong Zhuo, Chrom representing Yuan Shao, etc.

That, or it could be themed after various warlords already in Smash Bros.

Yeah that’s a great idea. Those are all good choices to represent the lords.

As far as the gameplay is concerned, I haven’t really thought out a complete moveset yet but the games have a lot of potential. The way the combat works is you have a basic attack and a charge attack button. You perform different attacks depending on when you use the charge attack in the combo. Originally, I thought this would be tough to translate into Smash, which is typically more about single attacks than combo chains but Kazuya’s A combo makes me think something like that could be possible. The main tricky part is balancing it so Lu Bu isn’t insanely overpowered. I feel like if we just copied over his DW moveset as is, he would end up being too strong.

 

[Eldrake]

I feel like Lu Bu would have crazy enough reach on his normal attacks to be able to hit and juggle up to 7 opponents simultaneously for that Dynasty Warriors feel. Of course, that sounds like it'd be hell for anyone to attempt to balance in the context of Super Smash Brothers.

 

[Gengar84]

I feel like Lu Bu would have crazy enough reach on his normal attacks to be able to hit and juggle up to 7 opponents simultaneously for that Dynasty Warriors feel. Of course, that sounds like it'd be hell for anyone to attempt to balance in the context of Super Smash Brothers.

Yeah, I think he would be a ton of fun to play as but I’m not sure what the best way to balance him would be. I would imagine his air game and recovery would be on the weaker side. Another idea is to have a tipper mechanic like Marth where you deal much less damage if you hit with the pole of his halberd rather than the blade.

 

[GolisoPower]

...looking at his moveset from DW, yeah, Lu Bu would basically Kazuya with Min Min-level reach. He seems just that insane. Maybe it deals less damage with each character his attack hit per swing like with Kazuya's Devil Blaster? Or perhaps maybe he gets greater endlag with each attack he uses, much like with Bayonetta's jumps with her landing lag?

 

[Gengar84]

...looking at his moveset from DW, yeah, Lu Bu would basically Kazuya with Min Min-level reach. He seems just that insane. Maybe it deals less damage with each character his attack hit per swing like with Kazuya's Devil Blaster? Or perhaps maybe he gets greater endlag with each attack he uses, much like with Bayonetta's jumps with her landing lag?

This video does a pretty good job at showing off Lu Bu’s moveset:

Dynasty Warriors 8 complete edition - moveset with commentary: 11/82 Lu Bu

This is the moveset of Lu Bu. The names of the musou attacks are created by the game developers. I named the rest of the attacks because I really think that ...

m.youtube.com

It’s on the longer side but I think it helps when trying to come up with an idea for Smash.

 

[Paraster]

So we can all agree Lu Bu's reveal trailer would involve Zelda and FE characters (and maybe Joker), right?

 

[Eldrake]

Would Lu Bu ever join Smash Bros, I want his arrival to be preceded by his theme song before his appearance solely because I would want to see how many reaction video posters recognize it from the first few seconds of it.

 

[cashregister9]

A Dynasty Warriors character would be pretty cool, I have an idea for a gameplay gimmick

The A Button acts as light attacks and the B button acts as heavy attacks, Combining the inputs of the 2 creates unique moves and combos, similar to those seen in Dynasty Warriors.

 

[Gengar84]

So we can all agree Lu Bu's reveal trailer would involve Zelda and FE characters (and maybe Joker), right?

Yeah, I think that would be an awesome way to reveal Lu Bu in Smash. We can add Hero as well since Dragon Quest also had a Warriors spinoff game.

Nobody has asked yet, but I thought I'd share some music from the Dynasty Warriors series. I think the series has amazing soundtracks that would definitely fit in Smash. There are so many great songs to choose from it was hard to narrow it down.

Dynasty Warriors 3 Theme of Lu Bu - DW Terrible Mix

Lu Bu's theme music from Dynasty Warriors 3 (aka Shin Sangokumusou 2). This is one of my personal favorites.Credit to KOEI & KOEI Warriors. I do not own any ...

www.youtube.com

Dynasty Warriors 3 OST - Superior

Copyright by Tecmo Koei

www.youtube.com

Dynasty Warriors 3 - Jump Into The Battlefield Ver.2

The Battle of Hu Lao Gate

www.youtube.com

Dynasty Warriors 3 - The Battle of Chi Bi

Power and Glory Version 2 - Wei ForcesThis is my favorite

www.youtube.com

Dynasty Warriors 3 OST - The Men of Intelligence

Copyright by Tecmo Koei

www.youtube.com

Dynasty Warriors 4 OST - EVE

Copyright by Tecmo Koei

www.youtube.com

Dynasty Warriors 4 - The Wall of Fate

Hu Lao Gate from Dynasty Warriors 4

www.youtube.com

DW4 OST - Avenging Battle

This track plays when you play as the Shu Forces at the Battle of Yi Ling. This track is also a personal favorite of mine. Enjoy! ^_^

www.youtube.com

Shin Sangokumusou 7 (Dynasty Warriors 8) OST - Arena -DW 7TH MIX- HQ

HQ upload of Arena -DW 7TH MIX- from the Shin Sangokumusou 7 (Dynasty Warriors 8) OST.Credit to KOEI TECMO.

www.youtube.com

DYNASTY WARRIORS 7: Xtreme Legends BGM - Teary Edge

The music from Dynasty Warriors 7: Xtreme Legends (Shin Sangokumusou 6 Moushouden 真・三國無双6 猛将伝). http://www.facebook.com/dynastywarriors7

www.youtube.com

Dynasty Warriors 6 - WELCOME TO CHINA

Battle of Xu ChangNo copyright infringement is intended upon the respective owners. I do not own the track.

www.youtube.com

And here's a few that are from other Warriors or Koei-Tecmo games that I think would be great to add as well:

Sengoku Musou 4 (Samurai Warriors 4) OST DLC - City of Flowers -SM4 MIX-

City of Flowers remix from the Sengoku Musou 4 OST DLC.Credit to KOEI TECMO.The official artwork can be found at the KOEI Warriors Members Only board.

www.youtube.com

Samurai Warriors Anegawa

Anegawa song =D

www.youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Warriors Orochi 3 OST - Ryu Hayabusa Theme

Warriors Orochi 3 Soundtrack Ryu Hayabusa Theme.

www.youtube.com

 

[Technomage]

Okay, here's a question: What would Lu's alts be?

 

[Gengar84]

Okay, here's a question: What would Lu's alts be?

I would probably go with Lu Bu's design from Dynasty Warriors 8 as his primary:

For his alt, I'd go with his design from Dynasty Warriors 7:

He would also have color variations to reference his older appearances (this example was from Dynasty Warriors 4)

 

[Deleted member]

Since I'm the guy behind the support thread for Lu Bu and another Dynasty Warriors character, I'll chime in for today cause this sounds like fun, and because it's Dynasty Warriors, I already see people bringing up that thing about real people and real events taking place within the games. I'd just like to say first that Dynasty Warriors is a video game franchise with Koei-Tecmo's take on these characters and events that also take place on the ROTK novels and reality. To act like Nintendo or Sakurai would reject adding a character from that game for not being a real video game character is pretty silly at this point.

Other than that, Lu Bu is a staple of Dynasty Warriors for being a straight up beast. His portrayal in the games will always consist of him appearing and soldiers being mowed down by his hands. He's got his own theme and is even made to be difficult to kill in early stages because his hp and dmg are set real high. That pretty much shows why you should not pursue Lu Bu. I guess in that aspect it'd probably make Sakurai want to choose a different character for Dynasty Warriors since he might not feel he could do Lu Bu justice with how he's designed in his own games. He'd be Sephiroth but heavier, faster, and with less projectiles. That's how insane he'd be if Sakurai were to add him as he is in the games, so it's either balance him while trying to maintain what makes him stand out from Dynasty Warriors or making him into a 4 Star Spirit for a different character. I don't really got any ideas for the former, but if it is indeed what happens, I imagine it'd have to do with how he moves since he isn't a slow character at all.

Lu Bu and Dynasty Warriors in general feels like Dracula from Castlevania - loosely based on a public domain book but has enough divergent evolution to feel like their own character. I think Lu Bu is a pretty interesting choice, too, because I can say he's definitely (as someone who has never played a game in the series) the most iconic character that everyone talks about. I wonder how you would put Dynasty Warriors mechanics in Smash? I feel like the ability to take down armies would be pretty important for game feel, no? Perhaps some kind of mechanic like ROB's beam or Aura, where you perform actions to eventually build to a screen-clearing special? I'm not sure.

1 thing is certain when it comes to Dynasty Warriors and it's being able to hit multiple enemies at once, so every attack being able to hit at least 3 characters all of them taking the same number of damage is the simple part of it.

The other certain thing is implementing Musou's combat to Smash. Dynasty Warriors 9 has an overhauled combat system that I don't know much about since I never played it, but as for the entries that came before it, you got 6 normal attacks and 1 strong attack you could use to follow up the first 5 normal attacks. Normal attacks would be the regular attacks with A while B would be the strong attack. Maybe you could even activate strong attacks by holding down A in case you need to use B for something like a Final Smash or possibly a Musou attack if Sakurai wants to include it to his moveset. Musou attacks generally build up when you deal or take damage to/from enemies which is already what a Final Smash is, but if he decides to give a Musou meter for Lu Bu's moveset, that's pretty much how it'd work.

So we can all agree Lu Bu's reveal trailer would involve Zelda and FE characters (and maybe Joker), right?

Since LoZ and FE are the 2 franchises with Musou games, it's ideal for him to be in it especially with Hyrule Warriors' Volga having an alt colored around him, but man I wanna go even further and have a whole lot of characters involved in his trailer like Sephiroth to signify him looking to fight everyone lol.

You know, thinking about it, I could imagine Lu Bu's Classic Mode being based on all the masters he betrayed over his lifetime. Like Ganondorf representing Ding Yuan, King K. Rool representing Dong Zhuo, Chrom representing Yuan Shao, etc.

That, or it could be themed after various warlords already in Smash Bros.

The fighters in Lu Bu's Classic Mode could represent 3 things: characters he faces during the events of Dynasty Warriors to signify his journey throughout the game, major characters of Dynasty Warriors as a whole, or, if possible, a pseudo-All Star mode where he takes on every single Fighter from the base roster in segments (as much as I'd want DLC characters in it as well it's not gonna happen). We got a pseudo-Boss Rush mode with Sephiroth's Classic Mode being themed around Bosses, so Lu Bu's being themed around 1 against all does sound really fitting for the latter.

Okay, here's a question: What would Lu's alts be?

I don't know which design they'd go off of between 8 and 9, but for color palettes, I think a majority of them will be based around the major Kingdoms with Blue for Wei, Green for Shu, Red for Wu, and Cyan for Jin. The others will be yellow for Other, purple for his adoptive Dong Zhuo, and an alt around the main colors he had in the older titles like the 1 Gengar brought up.

 

[Perkilator]

If there was a Warriors-themed Spirit Event, would there be Spirits from Dynsasty, Hyrule and FE Warriors, with the AoC Spirits thrown back in for good measure?

 

[Gengar84]

If there was a Warriors-themed Spirit Event, would there be Spirits from Dynsasty, Hyrule and FE Warriors, with the AoC Spirits thrown back in for good measure?

Yeah, that could be cool. Throw in a Dragon Quest Heroes and Persona 5 Strikers character too.

On a related note, do you think Lu Bu should come with any songs from either Persona 5 Strikers or Hyrule Warriors? I can see his inclusion as a great excuse to get some music from those games in their respective stages.

Here are just a couple examples of the awesome music from those games:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

Daredevil - Persona 5 Scramble: The Phantom Strikers

Vocals by: LynLyrics by: Lotus JuiceMusic by: Gota Masuoka

m.youtube.com

 

[Perkilator]

Would it be wise to make a Discord server for the CET?

 

[GolisoPower]

What would his stage be? Looking through his actual historical background, you don't suppose Xiapi would be a good stage for him, right?

 

[Gengar84]

What would his stage be? Looking through his actual historical background, you don't suppose Xiapi would be a good stage for him, right?

My personal choice would be Hu Lao Gate. It was the first area you encountered him in the early games and has an awesome snowy aesthetic.

 

[Deleted member]

What would his stage be? Looking through his actual historical background, you don't suppose Xiapi would be a good stage for him, right?

Xiapi was where Lu Bu met his downfall. It'd be an interesting choice, but I'd say Hu Lao Gate would be it since it's 1 of the stages that introduces players to Lu Bu for the first time.

 

[amageish]

As far as the gameplay is concerned, I haven’t really thought out a complete moveset yet but the games have a lot of potential. The way the combat works is you have a basic attack and a charge attack button. You perform different attacks depending on when you use the charge attack in the combo. Originally, I thought this would be tough to translate into Smash, which is typically more about single attacks than combo chains but Kazuya’s A combo makes me think something like that could be possible. The main tricky part is balancing it so Lu Bu isn’t insanely overpowered. I feel like if we just copied over his DW moveset as is, he would end up being too strong.

I think we'd need something combo-focused, but balance sounds very hard for it... Maybe have his neutrals work like 10-Hit-Combo, with the option to cancel out of the combo into a powered-up special attack, representing the strong attacks?

On a related note, do you think Lu Bu should come with any songs from either Persona 5 Strikers or Hyrule Warriors? I can see his inclusion as a great excuse to get some music from those games in their respective stages.

If we're assuming it's as a DLC character, then probably not realistically. I do like the idea of introducing "Crossover Songs" that can be played on multiple franchises stages though... I also find it kind of weird HW had no content in Smash on launch and it is still only AoC with spirits. Heck, Sophia means P5S has more spirits then the original HW lol.