Character Discussion

[slikvik]

"I've finished the changes to G&W that me and Plum were going over. This is the changelist.

Ftilt: 50 BKB from 20. Kills marios from the middle of FD at 150%

Dtilt: Comes out on frame 8 instead of 6, 80% speed from frame 16

Chef: Comes out frame 14 instead of 18, ends frame 38 instead of 49

Bair: Removed grounded hitbox

Here is the gct

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=2...eada0a1ae8665a
"


This was sent to me by Count Kaiser and Plum. I haven't tested it out yet. My current opinion is that G&W needs no changes, but I'm willing to try it out. I'll post opinions on it later

 

[GHNeko]

I'm surprised you didnt choose to nerf nair's damage output. :V

That's like the new GaW bair.

 

[slikvik]

Well, these are plum and kaisers settings. also nair only comboes into itself or fair for about 34% at low to mid percents. hardly game-breaking

 

[Magus420]

If someone would be kind enough to finally fix the frame advance code and disable the input from the Z button or at least map it to taunt or something, I might consider at some point graphing the more relevant characters' hitstun/string breaking time vs distance from starting point to hurtbox on vertical and diagonal knockbacks.

:3

 

[The Cape]

Stuff to work on?:

Luigi Nair:
080E6414 0005A033
08066414 0005A033

Wario D throw hitbox:
1504641E 0016903C

Wario Pummel Attack:
15026400 0016903A

Peach Spores:
6503B428 E002DFFF

Bowser sideB:
0B125032 0000003C

Luigi:
DownB:
08023C14 000A0115
08023C14 00014115
0804733C 0005A115

Aerial DownB:
08025032 000A0115
08025032 00014115
08025032 0005A115

More throws:
Link:

U throw:
020218E6 0000005A
02056432 0201403C (hb)
02046432 0201403C (hb)

F throw:
02043278 00000037
02030000 0016903C (hb)

D throw:
02043C5A 0000006E
02030000 0016903C (hb)

B throw:
0204326E 00000082
02030000 0016903C (hb)

Zelda:
U throw:
0D0B5032 0000005A

F throw:
0D0C4632 0000002D

D throw:
0D02502A 00000078
0D026400 0302803C (hb)

B throw:
0D0B503C 0000002D



Falcon:

U throw:
09034669 00000055
0904643C 0005003C (hb)

F throw:
09042D69 0000002D
09056446 0005003C (hb)

D throw:
09074B22 00000041

B throw:
09041E82 00000087
09056446 0006E03C (hb)

upB:
09064632 00000000
090C2852 00000169
090A641E 00046114 (hb)

 

[The Cape]

New interesting idea:

MK upB goes into special fall:

1600011D 00850010 (Air)
16000114 00850010 (ground)

More stuff:

Bowser sideB angle to 35 from 60
0B125032 0000003C
12503200 00000023

Yoshi F throw has an angle of 320, 30 base, 0 growth
04073742 0000002D
051E0000 00000140

Yoshi B throw has 65 growth from 55
04073742 0000002D
07414200 0000002D

DDD F throw has 100 growth from 80, 35 angle from 45
20064650 0000002D
063C5000 00000023

DDD B throw has 80 base from 60 and no growth from 65, 35 angle from 45
200A3C41 0000002D
0A3C0000 00000023

Sonic:
F throw: 70 growth, 70 angle, 50 base
2F063C46 00000046
063C3200 00000046

B Throw: 140 angle, 50 base, 65 growth
2F08463C 0000008C
08464100 0000008C

Link:
D throw: 100 angle from 110
02043C5A 0000006E
043C5A00 00000064

B throw: 150 from 130 angle, 60 base from 50
0204326E 00000082
043C6E00 00000096

Falcon:
D throw: 70 from 65 angle
09074B22 00000041
074B2200 00000046

Jiggs:

U throw: 110 Base to 85 base and 50 growth from 30
250A6E1E 0000005A
0A553200 0000005A

D throw: 100 Base to 70 base and 60 growth from 30, 75 angle from 80
2506642D 00000050
06463C00 0000004B

Falco:

D throw: 55 base from 45, 100 growth from 130, 60 angle from 50
13012D82 00000032
01376400 0000003C

F throw: Angle from 45 to 35
13032387 0000002D
03238700 00000023

U throw: 120 angle from 107
13024664 0000006B
02466400 00000078


Falcon upB: 70 growth from 50, 20 angle from 0
09064632 00000000
06464600 00000014


Bowser F smash:
hb1 (weak hit): (35 base from 30, 0 growth from 130)
0B0A821E 0003C02C
0A002302 003C0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

hb2: headbutt (50 base from 25, 90 growth from 81, slash type)
0B175119 0016902C
175A3202 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

hb3: tipped headbutt (40 base from 22, 85 growth from 81, slash type, 80 angle from 60)
0B155116 0003C02C
15552802 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Bowser Nair:
hb1 (30 base from 20, 60 growth from 80, 10 angle from 20, slash type, 2x size)
0B0D5014 00169033
0D3C1E02 000A0000
FFFFFFFF 40000000

hb2: (40 base and growth from 20 base and 80 growth, 80 angle from 20, slash type, 2x size)
0B095014 00169033
09282802 00500000
FFFFFFFF 40000000
Magus speed change:
N-Air (Old?)
Total: 48
Hit: 8-23

N-Air (New?)
Total: 48
Hit: 4-35

0B188062 40000000
0B088062 3F000000
0B008062 40000000

Need for frame perfect Glairs (MK):
16060087 41A00000

Charizard F tilt tip is 1.5x size:
1D0B6423 05169027
0B642305 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000

Wolf Side B goes into the "footstooled" animation (try for Diddy upB?)
2C000113 E1130070
2C000113 C1130070

What is the difference between Fall 1 and Fall 2? One might be useful for this.

 

[Shell]

Lucas U-throw:
1A0A5041 0000005A
0A504800 0000005A

Adjusted KBG to 72 from 65. Now kills Mario @ FD center with DI at 150% from 172%.


WIP Lucas D-throw (Doesn't work):
1A074B64 0000005A
072D0000 00000122

The goal is to make the move a tech chasing throw in the vein of GW d-throw. I can't really make it set up for aerial combos any better without it leading into U-smash consistently (o_O), so I figured it'd be best to have it set up for his ground strengths anyways with proper prediction.

I had the angle set to 290 from 90, but since the opponent starts nearly inside the ground they just kinda sit on the ground for half a second and then return to standing. BKB 45 from 75, KBG 0 from 100. This'll need to be redone (Thanks, Cape).


WIP Ganon D-throw:
14074632 00000041
07462300 00000055

Angle 85 from 65, KBG 35 from 50. Needs a lot of testing and polish. The idea is to keep people from DIing away from a killing blow at 90-100 on.

 

[shanus]

if u want a tech chase downthrow shell, mimic my D3 downthrow settings

 

[The Cape]

Ok more throws complete:

Ganon (14):
D: 60 Growth from 50, 100 angle from 65
14074632 00000041
07463C00 00000064

U: 55 growth from 105, 270 angle from 90, darkness type
14034669 0000005A
03463700 0000010E

U throw hitbox (Darkness type):
1404641E 0005003C (hb)
04641E13 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

F: 70 angle from 43, 45 base from 60, 55 from 65 growth
14083C41 0000002B
082D3700 00000046

B: 38 angle from 43
14051E82 0000002B
051E8200 0000002B

Ike (22)

D: 100 growth from 120
22044B78 00000050
044B6400 00000050

Ivysaur (1F)

F: 25 angle from 45
1F083C37 0000002D
083C3700 00000019

D: 85 angle from 80
1F0A5332 00000050
0A533200 00000055

Lucario (21):
U: 70 base from 60
21053C46 0000005A
05464600 0000005A


Lucas(1A):
D: 30 growth from 100, 80 base from 75, 270 angle from 90 (GW D throw)
1A074B64 0000005A
07501E00 0000010E

U: 70 growth from 65
1A0A5041 0000005A
0A504600 0000005A

Mario(00)
U: 72 to 85 growth
00084648 0000005A
08465500 0000005A

F: 25 angle from 45
00093C41 0000002D
093C4100 00000019

B: 35 angle from 45
000C463F 0000002D
0C463F00 0000002D


Ness(0A):
U: 90 base from 105
0A0A6928 0000005A
0A5A2800 0000005A

F: 40 angle from 45, 110 base from 120
0A0B780A 0000002D
0B6E0A00 00000028

D: 80 angle from 70
0A045A1E 00000046
045A1E00 00000050

B: 140 angle from 135
0A0B0F82 00000087
0B0F8200 0000008C


Pika(07):
U: 75 Base from 90
07055A2D 0000005A
054B2D00 0000005A

D: 65 angle from 80, 70 base from 60, 58 growth from 38, 3 damage from 5
07053C26 00000050
03463A00 00000041

Samus(03):
U: 75 base from 80, 50 growth from 70
03045046 0000005A
044B3200 0000005A

F: 22 angle from 44
03093C37 0000002A
093C3700 00000016

D: 85 angle from 80, 40 growth from 50
03065032 00000050
06502800 00000055

B: 70 growth from 50
03083C37 00000028
083C4600 00000028


Doc:
D Throw: GW D throw
00064B32 00000050
064B3200 00000050

U: D throw stats
00084648 0000005A
06464800 0000005A

F:
00093C41 0000002D
0C3C3F00 00000023

B:
000C463F 0000002D
08324100 0000000A

 

[Shell]

Replace Mario Bair Strong Hit with this:
000C5F0A 00169033
0A2F1400 00000000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Lowered the angle from 15 to 0 and damage from 12 to 10 (KB compensated) to make it more useful for gimping, but slightly less so for combos.

 

[Veril]

I'm working on getting just the correct knockback for Jiggs up-throw. Darkness rests works as intended, and looks f***ing bada**. We should include it. It removes the element weakness problem with resting Ivy and squirtle and is infinitely snazzier than the fire rest.

rest hitbox mod: bolded part changes the type to darkness
250F4B64 0E058115
1F327613 002D0000
8BA05276 3F800000

I have begun collecting frame data by using the debug menu to play frame by frame. This should ensure perfect accuracy as I do not have to use a camera or capture card. I have a lot of projects that are now possible as a result. The first thing I'm doing, of course, is getting new and more detailed frame data for Jigglypuff.

Debug Pause:-(GCC)
80000000 805B8A08
0402E5AC 8819000B
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 EFFF1000
86410000 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 00FF0000
12000002 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 FFEF0010
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 FF000000
12000002 00000100
E2000002 00000000

Button Modifier:
041E6CD8 4BE1C128
041E6D1C 4BE1C114
06002E00 00000068
9421FF80 BC410008
7CE4402E 7CE738F8
7CE73039 3864FFC0
7CE3412E 7CC4412E
B8410008 38210080
60000000 481E3EB0
9421FF80 BC410008
7C03202E 3DC01000
7DCE70F8 7C007039
740E0408 3DE00408
7C0E7800 40820008
64001000 B8410008
38210080 481E3EBC

Illinialex has gotten frame data for Jiggs moveset in vBrawl... too bad its full of errors I don't have the heart to tell him yet. I intend to fact check my findings thoroughly, but simply testing out the f-smash, I know his f-smash duration was off by 9 frames (59 when it should be 50)... pretty bad considering its a move I still believe needs fixing (omg terrible on block and super slow). His blocklag and stun appears to be accurate for vBrawl throughout, but I'm retesting it rather than just applying the new multipliers. He didn't do hitstun, so that's gotta be looked into.

This shouldn't take too long, but I want to streamline my process and methods so as to develop the research techniques necessary to efficiently gather data.

 

[The Cape]

Veril:

I posted a Jiggs U throw change up above, did you try it out? I havent tried it in a match, but I want your opinion.

As for the frame data, please organize it like its set up here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240603

So that we can further the use of this info.

I should be getting Jiggs data either tonight or tomorrow so you will have all her hitbox and throw data to work with

 

[slikvik]

"I've finished the changes to G&W that me and Plum were going over. This is the changelist.

Ftilt: 50 BKB from 20. Kills marios from the middle of FD at 150%

Dtilt: Comes out on frame 8 instead of 6, 80% speed from frame 16

Chef: Comes out frame 14 instead of 18, ends frame 38 instead of 49

Bair: Removed grounded hitbox

Here is the gct

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=2...eada0a1ae8665a
"


This was sent to me by Count Kaiser and Plum. I haven't tested it out yet. My current opinion is that G&W needs no changes, but I'm willing to try it out. I'll post opinions on it later

I think speeding up chef is good idea. It becomes a decent situational projectile. Without the buff it's almost never used. The ftilt buff isn't really needed. I believe fair is better in any situation where you would use ftilt. Dtilt is pretty spammable so slightly lowering the speed is an ok nerf. Removing the grounded hitbox is a terrible nerf. It's pretty much his only launcher(sends at a 45 degree angle) and removing it would cripple him.

So imo

Chef speed up: good
ftilt kb increase: unnecessary
Dtilt nerf: ok
removing bair grounded hitbox: bad

 

[shanus]

can you post the speed up in the frame speed data to be added thread?

 

[goodoldganon]

can you post the speed up in the frame speed data to be added thread?

Or if you can get the text for that codeset from those guys I'll find it for you.

 

[VietGeek]

Or if someone can fix the link I can go Thinkaman on this ****.

 

[Magus420]

I've been meaning to do so for a while, and with the working throw mod in place I experimented and reworked/polished some of Luigi's moves over the weekend. My aim wasn't to make him a more effective character overall (he's a very good character), but to see if I could cut back on the dumb crap and guaranteed repetitive combos he has (see u-air, its 55 angle, not causing tumble till like 40%, leading into itself, and often being unavoidable regardless of DI off of d-throw), and possibly make him a more interesting and dynamic character that's more mixup oriented and with more creative combos/strings.

I spent quite a few hours fine tuning the numbers on many of these to be just right. After logging some 5+ hours of playtesting with Ryoko I think Luigi's a blast to play as now and requires a bit more thought to use. He seems to be pretty balanced overall compared to without the changes, though perhaps slightly worse against floaties and a little better against faster fallers.


[UNTESTED] [/UNTESTED]
Anything in these tags are changes I added/adjusted later on and after the playtesting I did this weekend. They may need tweaking to get the appropriate numbers.




D-Throw: 75->75 BKB; 30->30 KBG; 80°->75°
08064B1E 00000050
064B1E00 0000004B
The angle on this throw was high enough where even when DI'd properly would allow followup with an u-air for near inescapable u-air combos on a lot of characters at low damage and n-air/u-smash/pivot or DC f-smash/character specifically up-B to kill. On floatier characters you could d-throw -> u-air -> u-air -> grab/jab regrab -> d-throw -> u-air -> possible followup for around 55 damage from very low percents.

No reason not to use d-throw, no reason not to DI the d-throw Luigi will always do away, and no reason not to use u-air to combo off the throw with it's high angle and high tumble damage threshold makes for some very effective but rather repetitive combos and followups. The lower angle allows them to get further away when DI'd properly and not be autocomboed nearly as much into solid combo and KO moves regardless of what they do.


U-Throw: 70->72 BKB; 72->38 KBG; 90°->100°
08084648 0000005A
08482600 00000064
Similar to d-throw but with slightly more initial KB, more growth, and sends up and slightly behind. The distance from 90° is the same as the default d-throw, but it's not as comboable as that when DI'd probably from a combination of having to turn around first and perhaps slightly more lag.

The mixup here with the d-throw actually sets them up in various places since they'll now have reason to not always DI away when grabbed, and be trying to followup from not just 2 launch directions 90% of the time (missed DI on d-throw and DI'd away d-throw to minimize the ****), and often hitting them with the same crap out of the throw over and over again every stock.

It also mixes up with the f-throw change below around 5-15 or so to set up things like reverse f-air to reverse u-air to stuff, or reverse f-air to d-air meteor to possible ground combo if they miss the tech or techchase, going directly into the d-air meteor which could be just below the tumble range depending on weight and into a n-air during the ground stun, etc.


F-Throw: 60->32 BKB; 65->100 KBG; 45°->40°
08093C41 0000002D
09206400 00000028
The slightly lower angle makes it enough of a threat to throw in sometimes at high damage if you predict them DIing away expecting a d-throw. Causes tumble when used in the 9-14 area. Before then it's possible to get 1 regrab with very good timing on most characters by dashing just the right distance into a dashgrab. It's a very fast throw overall and a successful f-throw regrab can be used to mess with their DI on the 2nd throw since if they DI in they could get regrabbed/comboed off another f-throw or reflexively DI away or something, so you could use that to try and set up favorable DI on an u-throw. It's pretty sexy looking when you pull it off directly into a throw since it happens pretty fast. To give an idea of something similar it's like the single f-throw regrab Marth often uses in Melee to spacies at close to 0%. Some can likely sidestep or invincible attack you out of it.


U-Air (Strong): 100->95 KBG; 0->15 BKB; 55°->55°
080D6400 00037033
0D5F0F00 00370000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
The 55 angle combined with it not causing tumble until 40ish (and thus being directional DIable) made for some rather dumb and repetitive combos. You could also get it guaranteed off d-throw even when DI'd, and often do lots of near unavoidable damage to slower falling characters with stuff like grab to u-airs to regrab/jab regrab to u-air again. It's often pretty much THE combo aerial in that range by outclassing his other comboable airs in both angle and tumble percent.

The increase in BKB makes it cause tumble and be DIable in the lower 20s, so if you jab grab, d-throw, u-air, u-air the 2nd u-air will usually be DIable to avoid a regrab except maybe on heavier characters, but heavy characters are more difficult to combo off his throws anyway with the slowdown on the throw's animation from weight.

The slight reduction in KBG is to compensate for the added base.


F-Air: 80->72 KBG; 30->30 BKB; (40)°->(40)°
080A501E 00169033
0A481E00 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
Used to cause tumble around 20%. The reduced growth extends that to around 30ish, and can also combo at later damages if they DI in. The short duration and ease of reverse hitting with it make it a pretty flexible combo move that can combo into things like reverse u-airs and d-airs (meteor hit) for some neat combos.


D-Air: 100->100 KBG; 20->20 BKB; (40)°->(40)°; 0.75x size
080B6414 00169033
0B641400 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F400000
D-Air (Meteor): 100->7 KBG; 20->63 BKB; 270°->270°; 1.4x size; [UNTESTED]11->8 Dmg[/UNTESTED]
080B6414 0010E033
08073F00 010E0000
FFFFFFFF 3FB33333
The meteor on the d-air is so absurdly difficult to hit with if for some reason you wanted to use it and isn't even that great that it's more of an easter egg than anything. It's actually not even included in the thread about meteor KB rankings and data (last I checked anyway) because the OP couldn't even land the thing enough to get the info for it. It's basically a small hitbox on his arms, and you need to only hit with that hitbox and somehow avoid contact with the hitbox covering most of his body and legs. Considering how his body is positioned diagonally during the move you can't even space it horizontally since in the front his legs will connect and in the back his shoulders will connect. Vertically, his shoulders will connect when underneath them and his legs will connect when above them. They need to be spaced perfectly either above and in front or spaced below and behind, and you'll get an underwhelming meteor for it.

The hitbox size changes allow for you to space the move underneath them to get it as well as with your back facing them from the side. It might barely reach in front more than the legs hit but it's not that reliable.

The combination of high base and very low growth have it start causing tumble somewhere around 15-20ish so that it is techable and doesn't allow silly repeating weak n-air/u-tilt -> d-air vertical combos (that ain't Falco). The KB overall is really weak and would rarely ever actually kill anyone offstage unless you hit them well below the edge or something.

The growth part prevents dumb up-B combos off the very high stun to distance ratio downward sending moves give to grounded opponents. You can still connect an up-B at higher damages on floatier characters, but at the ranges it would be an early kill you don't have time to react to their DI before throwing it out so it'd be very risky to try it. The growth is so low that at 999% they don't even go offscreen, lol.

The damage reduction is there because I think it's a bit more balanced with the potential for an extra hit or 2 where a combo/string might have ended with a single aerial for 12-14 dmg (depending on if they miss the tech on the d-air or if you successfully techchase). It also fits a bit better with the relatively weak KB the move now has.

I originally configured it using 6 dmg. After playtesting I don't think it really needs to be quite that low in damage so I recalculated it to use 8 dmg. I haven't tested it though so I'm not sure it's causing tumble at the percents I want with the newer dmg used here.


F-Smash (Up): 135->128 KBG; 20->20 BKB; 65°->65°
080F8714 0204102C
0F801402 00410000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
Despite it having horrible range, most people feel it's a bit too potent a KO move to be as fast as a tilt attack with the IASA on the upward angled one. Makes it kill a little later and more towards 100 if it connects.


Down-B (Ground; Linking Hits): 60->0 KBG (Both); 20->56/48 BKB; Outside: 160°->165°; Inside: 20°->165°; [UNTESTED]1.4x size (Both)[/UNTESTED]
08023C14 000A0115
02003800 00A50000
FFFFFFFF 3FB33333
08023C14 00014115
02003000 00A50000
FFFFFFFF 3FB33333
The low base and growth for the linking hits can allow them to get their shield up while in the middle of being hit with the move at low damage and then easily DI out later on when it puts them in a tumble. For whatever reason, they made the inside hitbox send outwards which doesn't really help to keep them from unintentionally flying out. There is a lot of lag on this move, and hitting them with it only to have them pop out and get you punished hard in exchange to doing 1 or 2 points of damage is not uncommon and really dumb.

I originally just made the KBG/BKB adjustments and angle change (after trying all sorts of tweaks on the angles and KB), but after playtesting it it wasn't much of an improvement because Luigi simply moves way to fast during the move than the launch speed of the KB can keep up with in some cases even when limiting the amount you move during it once the move connects. I'm thinking an increase on the hitbox would more often allow it to pull someone back in who happened to catch the hitboxes in the wrong places while bouncing around when they otherwise would pop out. The range on the move isn't that great, and hopefully the increase wouldn't have much of an impact in that regard while still allowing it to do a better job at linking the hits once it does connect on someone.



[UNTESTED]
N-Air (Strong): 100->95 KBG; 20->20 BKB; 90°->90°
080E6414 0005A033
0E5F1400 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
[/UNTESTED]
People feel that for coming out on frame 3 and being a combo starter and string breaker, it shouldn't kill as well as it does (120-140 or so with DI). It is the most reliable kill move he has though . Probably would kill 10% later or so. I think the whole 'Luigi can n-air to get out of just about anything' is really exaggerated but whatever.


[UNTESTED]
Dash Attack (Linking Hits): 80->0 KBG; 1->32 BKB; (40)°->(40)°
08015001 00169026
01002000 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
[/UNTESTED]
lol1base1dmg. Doesn't help that the 2nd to last linking hit requires 13 stun for the final hit to actually work. Might need tweaking to get the right amount of stun and the KB being the right speed to follow Luigi's forward movement. BBrawl made the weak hits trip to make it function. Could also try that out if it works well.


[UNTESTED]
Up-B (Air): 72->69 KBG; 58->58 BKB; 90°->90°
0814483A 0505A114
14453A05 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
[/UNTESTED]
There was supposed to already be a slight nerf in place on this and I felt it needed to be made weaker than the version I was using when playtesting with the new throw mixups, but it turns out it wasn't actually working and was still set to 72KBG. This should make it kill about 10% later with it in place. Fast fallers are more susceptible to the throw mixup into the aerial up-B at KO percents, since floatier characters can DI away to escape for the d-throw and will also avoid it off the u-throw by going too high.

 

[shanus]

I'll add these in and test them tomorrow

 

[The Cape]

For the Lucas U throw I posted:

All on FD:
Lucas U throw no input on fox: 147
Lucas U throw full DI forward on fox: 160

Lucas U throw no input on Jiggs: 111
Lucas U throw full DI on Jiggs: 119

Lucas U throw on Ganon no input: 158
Lucas U throw on Ganon full DI: 170

Lucas U throw on Falcon no input: 182
Lucas U throw on Falcon full DI: 194

Looks solid.

 

[Shell]

Er, I thought the 72 KBG U-throw I posted before you was good, but if you think it's better at 70 that's okay, too.

 

[The Cape]

Well the go with the 72 :-p

You had told me to look into it so I did. Thats the info I got.

Shell, updates on Doc? I sent you the set.

 

[The Cape]

Some ZSS stuff I was developing with Yeroc:

ZSs new dair:
hb 1: +1 damage angle changed to 275 from "169"
hb 2: 75 angle from 60, -1 damage, 70 growth from 90 and 86 base from 70)
18045A23 00169033
055A2300 01130033
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
18055A46 0003C018
04465600 004B0000
FFFFFFFF 3FA66666

Neutral B (60 growth and 50 base from 100 growth and 0 base, angle to 60 from 169):
6C046400 14169000
033C3214 003C0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Charged neutral B (60 growth and 40 base from 100 growth and 0 base, angle to 60 from 169):
6C066400 14169000
053C2814 003C0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Uair (angle change to 75 from 80 on both hits)
180A6428 02050033
0A642802 004B0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
18076414 00050033
07641400 004B0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000


UpB:
hb 1: 95 base and 0 growth from 0 base and 100 growth
hbs 2 and 4: 100 base and no growth from 100 growth and no base
hb 3: 75 base from 80
hb 5: 1.3x size
18026400 0005A114
02005F00 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

64043250 0305A001
04006403 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

64054650 0310E001
05464B03 010E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

64036400 0305A001
03006403 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

6406283C 0310E001
06283C03 010E0000
FFFFFFFF 3FA66666

The dair hits a bit more towards ZSS and both air hits spike now (this can give some pillars)

Uair has its angle lowered 5 degrees to make the move less OMG good.

Neutral Bs have a bit more stun, like people wanted before in the past

UpB should link a bit better overall.

 

[The Cape]

Ness and Lucas wall bounce fix:
0A00011C 011D011B
1A00011C 011D011B

Bowser Pivot grab as standing and sheild grab:
0B00001B 00340038
0B000000 00340038

Bowser crawls through arrows:
0B000012 00430012
0B000013 00430013

Extra Boozer Lines:
0B000012 00440012
0B000013 00440013

The first two allows Bowser to eat jabs, lasers, arrows and the like (weak stuff), the second two lines lets him eat stronger attacks. If you add in the second lines it will make it so that anything that doesnt tumble bowser will not affect him, the first two makes him immune to really weak attacks. I suggest using only the first two.

Just to prove I could:
Wario F smash super armor is gone:
1500002C 00450045
1500002C 00440044


Lucas dair: Links better
1A050A32 0005A033
05003C03 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000
1A056400 0010E033
05003C03 010E0000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000
1A056E0A 0010E033
056E0A03 010E0000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000
1A05820A 00169033
05820A03 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000


DDD uair: Links better
20026400 0003C033
02002D00 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
20026400 00078033
02002D00 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F000000
20026400 0005F033
02002D00 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
20058232 00046033
058C3200 00460000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000
20058232 00050033
058C3200 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000


Charizard U smash: Links better
1D056400 02073032
05640002 00140000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1D056400 02069032
05640002 00140000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1D056400 02064032
05640002 00140000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1D0B6E28 02053032
05640002 00140000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1D0B6428 02053032
05640002 00140000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1D0B5A28 02053032
05640002 00140000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

All Kirby F smashes
065A9128 000000D8
05106426 0002D02C
10592600 002D0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
050D6019 0005202C
0D551900 00520000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
050D5E19 0005202C
0D531900 00520000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
050F6226 0002602C
0F572600 00260000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
050D6019 0004902C
0D551900 00490000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
050D5E19 0004902C
0D531900 00490000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
050E6026 0001F02C
0E562600 001F0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
050D6019 0003C02C
0D551900 003C0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
050D5E19 0003C02C
0D531900 003C0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Mario jabs fix
00036400 00169024
031E1900 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
00036400 00050024
031E1900 00500000
00026400 00169024
021E1900 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
00026400 00050024
021E1900 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

 

[shanus]

I cant believe that idea actually worked

43 and 44 actionIDs are pimp

 

[goodoldganon]

I'll rage if we remove Wario's SA

EDIT:

I see you say 'just to say I can'

 

[The Cape]

Haha. I knew GoG would be pissed.

I just wanted to see if it was possible, and it is in fact possible.

 

[goodoldganon]

Haha. I knew GoG would be pissed.

I just wanted to see if it was possible, and it is in fact possible.

I laughed after I read the whole post.

Good **** man. You got me. That is really cool though. Can we remove SA effects on all attacks that mean? What about invincibility?

 

[GHNeko]

What about invincibility?

....ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff the discovery of this will NOT bode well for me.

 

[The Cape]

Will read into invincibility frames tomorrow.

I honestly doubt it though

 

[goodoldganon]

....ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff the discovery of this will NOT bode well for me.

On a serious note, which do you think would be better for Marth. His current Up-b or if we remove invincibility and buff it back to it's normal kill power (maybe slightly more)?

 

[Shell]

The turn-around is hardcoded into the pivot grab animation, so I'm assuming you hadn't tested the Boozer pivot tweak. If you did manage to account for this I'd be interested to hear how you did it, though.

And how'd you do the SA tweaks?

 

[shanus]

Takes the hitstun no tumble ID and resets it back into crawl

 

[VietGeek]

I honestly doubt it though

fufufufufufu~

well, if it IS possible, give him back full power to DS and take all invincibility frames or

Take away frames 1-4, leave frame 5, give it 95%-98% power?

 

[The Cape]

Shell I just tested the pivot grab buff, and yea he turns around. lol

Found something interesting today.

I tried to give Bowser dash grab out of sheild or sheild start up and it gave him back his infinite grab. Thats when I realized Bowser still has his ten frame advantage over everyone else. And therefore his perfect grab.

So I would like to do one of these things:
- Give him the release at the same time frame as everyone else and the dash grab replace (prefered)
- Give him dash grab replace only while the sheild is up (not when putting it up)

Bowser grab release is 40 frames from 30:
0BB00003B 3F400000

New Bowser grab code:
Only from sheilding (not startup):
0B00001B 00340036


Hmmm what about this?
0B00001B 00340038
0B00001B 00380038

Haha double turn around?

 

[Shell]

Yeah, the first option was the approach that ended up working the best for me with Ganondorf. I'll have to do a fair bit of playtesting (SMK?) with all of these new Bowser things once they're in place. I have an inkling it's a little too much too fast, but we'll see.

 

[shanus]

oops wrong thread

 

[The Cape]

R.O.B.
U Throw (82 growth from 72):
230A4648 00000050
0A465200 00000050

D Throw (40 growth from 20):
230A6E14 00000058
0A6E2800 00000058

Rob dash attack (35 angle from 60, -5 base all hits)
23053246 0003C026
05324100 00230000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
23063241 0003C026
06323C00 00230000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
2306323C 0003C026
062D3C00 00230000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

The ROB changes that were discussed (Untested)

 

[Blank Mauser]

Im assuming the Kirby Fsmash was for all angles of his smash. By how much was it reduced exactly?

 

[GHNeko]

Rob Dash attack reminds me off Zamus' DA. It's really gay how it strings into itself over and over, at least imo. <_>

 

[The Cape]

Fixed ROB D throw from before, Pit D throw and Mario uair

Pit U throw is in there as he got the "Pikachu throw treatment" a bit.

Ganon U tilt finally works like I tried to all that time ago (for fun). Give it a try

Pit Throws:
D throw: Angle from 80 to 75
1704503C 00000050
04503C00 0000004B

U throw: Growth from 72 to 65 and angle from 90 to 95
17074648 0000005A
07464100 0000005F

ROB D throw: +7 growth
230A6E14 00000058
0A6E1B00 00000058

Mario Uair: (Same as in the set with 43 angle from 45)
000B6409 0002D033
0B3C1D00 002B0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

ROB dash attack: 90 angle on all hits
23053246 0003C026
05324600 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
23063241 0003C026
06324100 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
2306323C 0003C026
06323C00 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000


For Fun:

Ganon U tilt:
140D0028 40000000
140A0028 3F800000
14050028 41080000


Ganon U tilt:
065A9800 00000078
14006400 000B4028
00000000 00000000
FFFFFFFF 00000000
14006400 00000028
00000000 00000000
FFFFFFFF 00000000
141B503C 05169028
0D503205 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1413503C 05050028
0C503205 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
1411503C 05050028
05641E05 001E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F000000