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Magus420
Smash Master
Weakening in what way?
If you make the movement per frame more consistent towards the beginning (probably slow it down a bit at the start of the launch), I imagine you'll not only make them less effective at side-Bing through people to escape, but also have more control over canceling them. Falco moves like 2+ body lengths or something crazy on the 1st frame of moving iirc.
If you make the movement per frame more consistent towards the beginning (probably slow it down a bit at the start of the launch), I imagine you'll not only make them less effective at side-Bing through people to escape, but also have more control over canceling them. Falco moves like 2+ body lengths or something crazy on the 1st frame of moving iirc.
Shell
Flute-Fox Only
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
- Messages
- 2,042
Also, making something weaker != making something else easier. I don't think things should be balanced by how hard they are, although it's a nice bonus when powerful things are hard. For a skilled player who can already manage to illusion cancel well enough, your proposition would just be a nerf. Not that I'm against it, I'm just sayin' it's not exactly a perfect trade-off, if that's what you wanted.
Im talking about the discussion about shifting their hurtboxes to make it easier to hit them out of side B.
Not even Spacies Pros in Brawl illusion cancel consistancy because of its window, which is why they just use the full version pretty much every time. <_>
Considering what magus said though, x the part about hurt boxes, but still consider extending the window in which a spacie can cancel their illusion, though the pros of doing so seem to outweigh the cons...
Magus420
Smash Master
Their hurtboxes are fine and are exactly where their graphic shows they should be.
Like I said, it's difficult to hit them out of the beginning of the movement because they move like 3 body lengths in a single frame. It's less of an issue on Fox's.
Like I said, it's difficult to hit them out of the beginning of the movement because they move like 3 body lengths in a single frame. It's less of an issue on Fox's.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
I'm gonna have to side with Magus on this one. Those hitboxes look fine (in fact they look kinda pathetic watching the GIFs). The problem is indeed the speed of movement like Magus has stated.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
I think it's more because the full versions sweetspot from any distance, so there's no reason to cancel it if you're going for the ledge, and if you're going for the stage, more often than not you want the full length anyway.
It would be a big boost to Wolf to be able to illusion cancel easier though. His canceled illusion is much better than the regular one for recovery purposes. Maybe I just need more practice but I still find it really difficult to do consistently, especially since there's 3 different levels.
Actually though, with the act of recovering between, characters that can reliable hit through illusions, canceling an illusion to fall onto the ledge rather than back onto the stage is a viable option, plus the timing is different to hit the spacies.
idk. :V
idk. :V
Revven
FrankerZ
I would suggest fixing the windows so they're a little better to do IF and ONLY IF we fix the hitboxes on Fox's and Falco's Side B so they both can be hit more easily out of them instead of some characters just having no options to hit them out and always clanking with them.
But again, only if the hitboxes weren't as big as they are.
But again, only if the hitboxes weren't as big as they are.
Magus420
Smash Master
The hitboxes are as 'big' as they are almost entirely due to interpolation from movement across frames, and not really due to the size of the hitboxes themselves.
Magus420
Smash Master
By 'window', do you mean the window to cancel it at its minimum length, or window to cancel overall with all distances (unless the cancel mechanics are different from melee?).
Falco for example:
|.......|...|.|
"|"s are cancel points along the movement during the animation. The first one is where you start off and if you cancel it at the very beginning.
"."s are to show the distance you move per frame.
Now, if we tweaked the speed at certain points (if this would be effective anyway), the distances at which he would move per frame and with it the distances it would be cancelable at might look more like this:
|....|...|..|.|
This would not only give more even cancel points, but 1 additional cancel point. It would also make it more possible to hit them out of the start of the movement, which is the part that matters when they are side-Bing through you to get away. Shouldn't really make it much easier to edgeguard it though which is good.
If you really wanted, I suppose you might be able to slow it on the frame just before launch so he's in that 'launch position', but before moving, since I believe that is the 'full' cancelable frame. It might look more like this is you do that as well.
X|....|...|..|.|
Where X is a 2+ frame window.
Edit: Does the cancel input buffer btw? If it does I don't see why it would be difficult to cancel at the minimum distance already, and that last part would be unnecessary.
Falco for example:
|.......|...|.|
"|"s are cancel points along the movement during the animation. The first one is where you start off and if you cancel it at the very beginning.
"."s are to show the distance you move per frame.
Now, if we tweaked the speed at certain points (if this would be effective anyway), the distances at which he would move per frame and with it the distances it would be cancelable at might look more like this:
|....|...|..|.|
This would not only give more even cancel points, but 1 additional cancel point. It would also make it more possible to hit them out of the start of the movement, which is the part that matters when they are side-Bing through you to get away. Shouldn't really make it much easier to edgeguard it though which is good.
If you really wanted, I suppose you might be able to slow it on the frame just before launch so he's in that 'launch position', but before moving, since I believe that is the 'full' cancelable frame. It might look more like this is you do that as well.
X|....|...|..|.|
Where X is a 2+ frame window.
Edit: Does the cancel input buffer btw? If it does I don't see why it would be difficult to cancel at the minimum distance already, and that last part would be unnecessary.
Revven
FrankerZ
I'm mostly talking about the window at minimum length, didn't actually know you could cancel it at certain points of the animation (except for the first two distances where he can do it immediately as he Side Bs or after a frame or so, I didn't know about the other two cancel moments).