Character Discussion Thread

[PeterJude]

Which is why you don't make bold statements. Anyone can be ruled out, but when taken down to a notch, then there are people who shouldn't be ruled out which like you said and anyone in their right mind knows are Nintendo characters or heavily associated with Nintendo. Even then, there are characters who can be ruled out like pointless oones like Pink Gold Peach, Metal Mario, or even Dr. Luigi. Not to mention random NPC #37 in Paper Mario.

I don't really think saying "they should have some connection to Nintendo" is exactly a bold statement. I doubt Nintendo are going to go out and licence Bill Gates for the game, as there's no possible benefit to them in doing so. However, you need to make some quite major assumptions to rule characters out based on "the standard" as Shaya puts it.

I honestly don't think threads on characters like Pink Gold Peach or Metal Mario would need to be locked or banned. If there is significant enough support on here for them to have a large, discussion filled thread I wouldn't really see the harm in just allowed them to continue. The same goes for "the third Goomba in the original Super Mario Brothers" and such. If people really get on the bandwagon for them, who cares. The only reason I make the point about characters who have no connection to Nintendo is that they're likely troll threads, so I could understand a thread at least needing to demonstrate that they are at least related to Nintendo in some manner.

Also, we already have Dr. Mario, why not Dr. Luigi. When will the siblingism end?!

 

[Deleted member]

.....seeing a lot of red in the Viewing Users.


You best quit while you're behind.

 

[Ffamran]

Sounds like a certain soldier of fortune....

At least Metal Gear was on the GameCube and maybe some other game on a Nintendo system and Kojima asked and is friends with Sakurai, my fortunate son.

The same could be said with Pac-Man who Miyamoto asked for.

I don't really think saying "they should have some connection to Nintendo" is exactly a bold statement. I doubt Nintendo are going to go out and licence Bill Gates for the game, as there's no possible benefit to them in doing so. However, you need to make some quite major assumptions to rule characters out based on "the standard" as Shaya puts it.

I honestly don't think threads on characters like Pink Gold Peach or Metal Mario would need to be locked or banned. If there is significant enough support on here for them to have a large, discussion filled thread I wouldn't really see the harm in just allowed them to continue. The same goes for "the third Goomba in the original Super Mario Brothers" and such. If people really get on the bandwagon for them, who cares. The only reason I make the point about characters who have no connection to Nintendo is that they're likely troll threads, so I could understand a thread at least needing to demonstrate that they are at least related to Nintendo in some manner.

Also, we already have Dr. Mario, why not Dr. Luigi. When will the siblingism end?!

I was referring specifically to you saying about not ruling anyone one out and nothing more.

 

[PeterJude]

Because it covers a majority of what's sensible inclusion without an incessant circular argument.
Why? Because we offer social groups to cover them. Also I've mentioned because of the cyclical conversations that exist within them. What we have now wouldn't change this. And if it wasn't obvious, seeing as you've been around a while, the moderation issues that exist with those topics too.

I'm not going to continue responding to you trying to semantic your way out of comprehension. I didn't shout anything. You wanted an answer, I gave you one. No point pulling the "I don't like it" (or construing everything possible to express that notion) because it isn't going to change right now. If you have a lesser popular character to discuss with this new chance without a social group, try talking about it here, if it's bigger than that (or grows to be) there's social groups to cover it and we can help out with that if need be (so there's one clean one).

So if social groups are good enough "for them", then why even have any character threads in here at all? It should be all or none, it just seems arbitrary to rule some characters out.

You do point out the moderation issues though. If the issue is that you (as a team) don't want to deal with a Ridley scale thread again, just outright say "we don't want Ridley discussed here as moderating the thread is a pain" rather than trying to hide it behind poorly justified reasoning about something we can't know, and lack precedents for at this point. That is a perfectly fine reason to stop such discussions, and I can completely understand that. My issue is entirely with the reasoning that has been given, particularly as it could prevent some quite interesting suggestions in the coming months.

 

[Deleted member]

At least Metal Gear was on the GameCube and maybe some other game on a Nintendo system and Kojima asked and is friends with Sakurai, my fortunate son.

The same could be said with Pac-Man who Miyamoto asked for.

Entirely irrelevant to the main point.
And you might want to check to full edit of my previous post.

 

[PeterJude]

I was referring specifically to you saying about not ruling anyone one out and nothing more.

Fair enough. Again, my own issue is with the logic used. I can understand requiring "it be Nintendo related", even if it's only tenuous. I can understand getting rid of thread for very popular characters (i.e. Ridley, K Rool, etc.) from this section to make it easier to deal with (but K. Rool seems totally peachy apparently). What I don't get is ruling out characters which come across as perfectly valid simply because "they have a role in the game", when this hasn't stopped other companies in the past, and Nintendo are literally asking for suggestions at this point. When it's argued on "but in the past", when we're into an entirely new situation, it just comes across as inconsistent.

 

[Shaya]

Because they're their own communities already big enough to regulate themselves? We would direct people to those instead of having threads here to be quite honest.
That vote doesn't have any guidelines to it on what is accepted or will be accepted. It isn't popularity based.

But why else would we have a standard for anything (bar morality) other than when it comes down to it's core; moderation issues.

The standard was derived for putting an end to the argument and keeping the section "calmer" as a whole after DLC was confirmed. There's a lot of reasons to be excited now though, we know.
With the new 'opportunity' comes with us being more adapting to what happens here, but we aren't going to blanket change/rush into something.

 

[Ffamran]

Sounds like a certain soldier of fortune....


But aside from that, there's clear difference between Crash and Master Chief.
Master Chief is literally impossible due to never appearing on a Nintendo system and being owned by Nintendo's rival.
Crash has been on Nintendo systems and isn't owned by a rival company.

Having questionable odds is not the same as having absolutely no odds at all, which is where your lumping of Crash among the likes of Master Chief, Bill Gates, and the Fairy Godmother falls flat.

He's been on a Nintendo system, but does he have major history with Nintendo?

Like I said, it's about making a bold statement and how can you assume Master Chief can't be in the game? Some wacky miracle can happen and he gets in. Nobody expected Snake, Sonic, Pac-Man, or Mega Man to get in. They just did, but Wii Fit Trainer, Greninja, and Duck Hunt? They're Nintendo. Shulk is from a Nintendo exclusive game. They have something that can be connected and with a solid connection compared to Pac-Man and Mega Man being retro buddies, Snake being on the GCN, or Sonic being a friendly rival.

The point is that certain requests are okay, but some won't be allowed to prevent random, outrageous ones like asking for a real person, some fairy tale character, or some character from some franchise. There had to be restrictions or else we'd be flooded with threads asking for stuff like Squall Leonhart, Sly Cooper, or the dude from Contra. Asking for reasonable characters are fine like Krystal, Isaac, or even Tails.

 

[PeterJude]

Because they're their own communities already big enough to regulate themselves? We would direct people to those instead of having threads here to be quite honest.
That vote doesn't have any guidelines to it on what is accepted or will be accepted. It isn't popularity based.

But why else would we have a standard for anything (bar morality) other than when it comes down to it's core; moderation issues.

The standard was derived for putting an end to the argument and keeping the section "calmer" as a whole after DLC was confirmed. There's a lot of reasons to be excited now though, we know.
With the new 'opportunity' comes with us being more adapting to what happens here, but we aren't going to blanket change/rush into something.

Fair enough, hopefully my and others thoughts on the matter of characters who have been "disconfirmed" are taken into account in any decisions made in the near future though.

In any case, have a nice day.

 

[Deleted member]

He's been on a Nintendo system, but does he have major history with Nintendo?

Like I said, it's about making a bold statement and how can you assume Master Chief can't be in the game? Some wacky miracle can happen and he gets in. Nobody expected Snake, Sonic, Pac-Man, or Mega Man to get in. They just did, but Wii Fit Trainer, Greninja, and Duck Hunt? They're Nintendo. Shulk is from a Nintendo exclusive game. They have something that can be connected and with a solid connection compared to Pac-Man and Mega Man being retro buddies, Snake being on the GCN, or Sonic being a friendly rival.

The point is that certain requests are okay, but some won't be allowed to prevent random, outrageous ones like asking for a real person, some fairy tale character, or some character from some franchise. There had to be restrictions or else we'd be flooded with threads asking for stuff like Squall Leonhart, Sly Cooper, or the dude from Contra. Asking for reasonable characters are fine like Krystal, Isaac, or even Tails.

I really am not following your logic.
Snake being on the GCN means there is solid connection?
Yet Crash being on GCN, GBA, Wii, and DS, having more games on Nintendo systems than Metal Gear does and being one of the three rivaling console mascots (Mario and Sonic being the other two) in the late 90s (with the rivalry being just as "friendly" as Sonic's) means he has the same chance as effing Bill Gates?

And nobody expected Sonic, Pac-Man, or Mega Man to be in Smash? Are you joking? Snake was pretty much the only one of the guests no one ever thought would be in Smash.

 

[PeterJude]

I really am not following your logic.
Snake being on the GCN means there is solid connection?
Yet Crash being on GCN, GBA, Wii, and DS, having more games on Nintendo systems than Metal Gear does and being one of the three rivaling console mascots (Mario and Sonic being the other two) in the late 90s (with the rivalry being just as "friendly" as Sonic's) means he has the same chance as effing Bill Gates?

And nobody expected Sonic, Pac-Man, or Mega Man to be in Smash? Are you joking? Snake was pretty much the only one of the guests no one ever thought would be in Smash.

I honestly wouldn't rule someone like Crash out. But there is a secondary issue to consider. How are they going to licence him, and is there enough demand for him that he would cover those costs as a DLC character?

 

[The_Naraotor]

Here is a liste I made of possible and reasonable character we can vote

And for the people who asky why Weavel over Syllux it's because Weavel is also a Space Pirate so double meaning for him to be put first over Syllux

I am reserving doubt on Third party character but Rayman / Bomber and of course Snake can be DLC more than any other IMO

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I loved Another Code but I can't imagine how Ashley Mizuki Robins would fare as a fighter. She doesn't even have the benefit of slapstick violence like Villager does.

She pretty much walked around a mansion solving puzzles and taking the odd picture. She also talked to a ghost.

I was thinking Ashley Mizuki Robins would make for an interesting Assist Trophy on the 3DS though. She could appear at the side of the screen and you'd have to close the 3ds and reopen it to damage your opponents. Referencing that cool puzzle that was in the first game.

 

[Wintropy]

Just to say, I was one of the big Ridley supporters in the brief age leading up to the game's release, and beyond. And yet I agree with @ N3ON and @ Kalimdori here: time to move on. You're free to support Ridley if you want, I know I still do, and I still have hope that he'll be a playable character someday. Right now, though, Sakurai's said his piece and that's that. It's not a perfect answer - I'd say it's riddled with inconsistencies and logical gaps - but it's still an answer. That's closure. That's more than most characters have got; that's more than most characters will ever get.

And Ridley is, for once, not the exception. I remember when Wonder Red's trophy was revealed in a Pic of the Day, and I held onto hope that he'd still be playable because "Sakurai never outright disconfirmed him there and then". The exact same logic that was applied to Ridley's shadow in the April Direct, I applied to Wonder Red. Yet I never expected anything, and I was perfectly willing to accept that it may not happen. And here I am, still wondering if Red will ever get into Smash, or if he just about missed his chance. Sakurai has never said anything about Red, and I doubt he ever will. Ridley got closure, and if nothing else, that's something to be thankful for. Very few fanbases get that.

And anyway, there's a reason why the Ridley thread is locked: it's the same reason why the Ghirahim thread is locked, why the Takamaru thread is locked, why the Prince of Sablé thread is locked, why the Isabelle thread is locked. I would kill for Isabelle in Smash, I would support her to my dying breath if I thought it was likely. But as it stands, it isn't going to happen. She has a role in the game. And I accept that. Exceptions cannot be made for a character because of popularity or because you really like him: that's playing favourites with people's support, and is detrimental to the egalitarian process that character support is based on. To wit: you can support whomever the hell you like, but if their role is confirmed, their role is confirmed, and that's that.

There is, incidentally, a social group for Ridley fans to hang out and discuss things. Probably I'm not supposed to make that publicly known, but honestly, I don't really care if I'll incense people by saying that - if it puts an end to these "WHERE'S RIDLEY?!" debates, then I'll consider it a job well done and a point well spoken.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Point where Ridley supporters should've just given up:

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

Point where Ridley supporters should've just given up:

That was the day when so many straws were firmly grasped.

 

[PeterJude]

Point where Ridley supporters should've just given up:

The point Toon Link supporters should have given up.

 

[Curious Villager]

*sigh* is this really where this is going to go on? Eh I'll come back once we talk about something other than purple space dragons and kids in train engineer outfits..... :/

 

[Wintropy]

No, we shouldn't have given up. We saw it through to the end and, for better or for worse, we kept it up 'til the end. And we got our closure. That's all we can ask for.

People who say "you should've given up kekekekek~", to be blunt about it, weren't there. You don't come that far just to stop there and then. Straws were grasped, hopes were born, friendships were made, tears were shed. The whole shootin' match. And even though the train did ultimately derail and crash, we stuck by it. It's very easy to play Captain Hindsight and speak impartially now that all's said and done, and I don't doubt that a lot of people did stick to their guns and say that it was never going to happen, but that still does not give you the right to say we were wrong to support as we did. I made a lot of great friends and even met my partner because of Ridley's disconfirmation, and I'd happily do it all again if it came to it.

 

[Pazzo.]

Here, I'll change the topic.

Who should I vote for?

 

[Burruni]

Spoiler

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m5erEOdei40/maxresdefault.jpg

Yeah, the April Direct was a final nail to most but anything that isn't a hard deconfirmation is still some kind of hope when it is YOUR number one fighter on the line. All the shadow arguments for him only being "slightly bigger than Bowser" ended up
bunk and Ridley wasn't shown back then probably because he wasn't finished yet or Sakurai wanted the "Wow!" factor of his usage to be saved for the 50-Fact Extravaganza.
Ridley is a boss on Pyrosphere and is what Ridley is going to be in Sm4sh. He isn't coming as DLC. If Sakurai isn't at the helm for Sma5h or something massive changes, he'll be a priority then.
For now, let's just focus on other matters.

For additions to current series, King K. Rool, Bandanna Dee, and Captain Toad appear to be the only big contenders anymore.
For newly represented series for a fighter, Isaac and Inklings are the big two with hope for some kind of Rhythm Heaven fighter being scrounged up from the incomplete data found on the disc.

Anyone wish to go further?

Here, I'll change the topic.

Who should I vote for?

BANDANNA DEE. JOIN THE BRODANNA BRIGADE.

 

[Pazzo.]

Is it too late to request a Rhythm Heaven character for DLC?

 

[Kalimdori]

Here, I'll change the topic.

Who should I vote for?

Rayman

I'll give you cookies

 

[Pazzo.]

I have until October anyway.

I should take my time... after all, I get ONE vote.

Rhythm Heaven, K. Rool, Professor Layton... So many choices, but I can only pick one.

 

[Duzzzyy]

Here, I'll change the topic.

Who should I vote for?

Inkling, there is so much unique potential in their moveset. Just think about it. Heck, their roll could be them diving into the map with an ink splash and popping up a distance away from it with another splash.
And I'm so in love with how beautiful their saturation is and their fresh design, everything about them is just SO cheerful and energetic.

 

[Curious Villager]

I have until October anyway.

I should take my time... after all, I get ONE vote.

Rhythm Heaven, K. Rool, Professor Layton... So many choices, but I can only pick one.

Take your time bud. Like you said, you have till October anyway to make your final decision.

Vote Layton or else we can't be Bro's anymoar!!! jk

 

[The Light Music Club]

Again, a massive assumption.

Toon Link was deconfirmed
Mewtwo was gone and not coming back
Lucas was certainly gone as Mewtwo was the only DLC

You never know what's going to happen.



Well, if you did some reading (or playing) you'd note that the Ridley from Other M is in the game stated to not be the actual Ridley, but rather a clone of Ridley. Not the same character.


But in turn, I will vote for Viridi then.


Yeah, it was particularly devastating when Sakurai deconfirmed Villager for all of time too... oh wait...

Dude he specifically said no Ridley for this game, get over it. Villager ended up being changed 6 years later not 6 months later.

In turn, I will vote for Viridi then...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This may just be wishful thinking but...Puzzle & Dragons Z rep?...Anyone?...No?...OK.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Here, I'll change the topic.

Who should I vote for?

You should vote for Lyndis, Perhaps it will open the flood gate for more AT trophies to become characters later on :3

 

[False Sense]

Here, I'll change the topic.

Who should I vote for?

Personally, I'd give my vote to either K. Rool or Isaac at this point. I think both would make excellent additions to the roster, and I believe that, through this ballot, they may have a real chance at making it on the roster. Supporting them could help realize the dreams of fans across the world.

 

[ElPanandero]

I want Issac, could support splatoon if she had stage control teleporting pool jumping shenanigans like this dude from porject aether http://rivalsofaether.com/characters/orcane/

That said, I still support my boy Young link coming back, as well as Skull Kid/Happy Mask Salesman, and my old school pair of Mack Rider and Balloon Fighter

 

[Frostwraith]

So much pointless drama over a fictional character... Sums up the fanbase overall (there are exceptions, of course).

Oh, humanity...

Anyway, I think votes for characters already with major roles in the game will not be considered. I like to believe the developers have the common sense to not scrap parts of the game design itself. DLC is meant to add to the game, after all.

 

[Deathlightning21]

So much pointless drama over a fictional character... Sums up the fanbase overall (there are exceptions, of course).

Oh, humanity...

Anyway, I think votes for characters already with major roles in the game will not be considered. I like to believe the developers have the common sense to not scrap parts of the game design itself. DLC is meant to add to the game, after all.

I'm sure Nintendo knew there would be votes like your Ridelys and AT characters. And if you want to use that logic to its most possible extreme then characters who already have trophies in the game shouldn't be considered either.

 

[Frostwraith]

I'm sure Nintendo knew there would be votes like your Ridelys and AT characters. And if you want to use that logic to its most possible extreme then characters who already have trophies in the game shouldn't be considered either.

I said MAJOR roles. Assist Trophies and bosses are major roles, given they're NPCs that interact with the players, i.e. part of the game design itself. If an Assist or boss is to be replaced, someone else must take their place... Which is easier said than done.

Trophies aren't on the same boat. They're just cameos and there are multiple trophies of the same character (Link, Ganondorf, Fox are such examples).

There's a big difference between those cases.

 

[Deathlightning21]

I said MAJOR roles. Assist Trophies and bosses are major roles, given they're NPCs that interact with the players, i.e. part of the game design itself. If an Assist or boss is to be replaced, someone else must take their place... Which is easier said than done.

Trophies aren't on the same boat. They're just cameos and there are multiple trophies of the same character (Link, Ganondorf, Fox are such examples).

There's a big difference between those cases.

But trophies do play a major role in the game. Heck, its one of the most backbone parts of Modern Smash Bros. Unlocking them through challenges, Purchasing them at the store, finding them when playing on stages, and of course getting all of the rights to use third party trophies of course.

And when you consider the number of them in the game then I would be tempted to say that the trophies are the most major part of the game.

 

[Dinoman96]

Actually, while we're on the topic of trophies...do you guys think they have any effect on possible DLC choices?

Here's what I mean when I say that: There are two kinds of obtainable trophies in Smash. The ones you get from random drops (Coin Lottery, Coin Launcher, Trophy shop, etc) and the ones that are tied to challenges, where you have to do a certain adjective to unlock it.

Lucas and Mewtwo are trophies in Smash 4, but they're random drop trophies, not tied to any achievement. I've noticed the trophies of K. Rool, Dixie, etc are all achievement based, alongside other characters that won't be DLC like Ridley, Waluigi, Saki, etc. So I wonder if that means anything for then.

On the bright side, this bodes well for Wolf, whose trophy is also a random drop.

 

[Mic_128]

This may just be wishful thinking but...Puzzle & Dragons Z rep?...Anyone?...No?

No. I've played the heck out of it but they don't have anyone iconic. Not to mention it's a mobile game.

 

[Frostwraith]

But trophies do play a major role in the game. Heck, its one of the most backbone parts of Modern Smash Bros. Unlocking them through challenges, Purchasing them at the store, finding them when playing on stages, and of course getting all of the rights to use third party trophies of course.

And when you consider the number of them in the game then I would be tempted to say that the trophies are the most major part of the game.

You obviously missed my point. Trophies are collectibles, bosses and summons are NPCs. The latter affect directly the gameplay itself.

That's what I mean by major roles.

If they make Ghirahim a character, his Assist Trophy would have to be replaced by a character to fill that same role in order to make DLC add something to the game, rather than adding an element while subtracting another.

 

[Wintropy]

Actually, while we're on the topic of trophies...do you guys think they have any effect on possible DLC choices?

Here's what I mean when I say that: There are two kinds of obtainable trophies in Smash. The ones you get from random drops (Coin Lottery, Coin Launcher, Trophy shop, etc) and the ones that are tied to challenges, where you have to do a certain adjective to unlock it.

Lucas and Mewtwo are trophies in Smash 4, but they're random drop trophies, not tied to any achievement. I've noticed the trophies of K. Rool, Dixie, etc are all achievement based, alongside other characters that won't be DLC like Ridley, Waluigi, Saki, etc. So I wonder if that means anything for then.

On the bright side, this bodes well for Wolf, whose trophy is also a random drop.

Good catch, but I doubt it. I think they just demarcated certain trophies as challenge rewards because they have a specific role in the game (Ridley, Waluigi, etc.) or because they thought they'd appeal to the fans (K. Rool, Dixie, etc.)

I don't think it's significant. Remember when we all thought trophies equaled disconfirmation?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Just a curious question, I'm wondering if you guys are tired about Ridley in general.
You guys probably squeezed out every topic for Ridley to grasping at straw confirmations, to how fierce and awesome Ridley is, to Metroid representation. Do you any of supporters feel like there's still more to talk about.