Character Discussion Thread

[Zzuxon]

STrange.
How do I get my shiny new captain Toad to compress so he can be seen in my sig?

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Yeah, she would be one of my top picks had it not been for her status as an Assist. Will be sure to campaign for her for Smash 5 lol.

They coulda picked any other lord except for her. But no. It bothers me that they made her look really nice graphically and yet she's an assist trophy again!
I'll be sure to request and support her again if and when there's a SSB5

 

[The Light Music Club]

Can we get another retro please? A Japan only one would be cool. Lip, Donbe and Hikari, and Ayumi Tachinbana would be my choices.

I don't see how Wolf doesn't come back. King K, Ice Climbers, Snake, are guys I see being at the top of the ballot of characters Sakurai would like to add in. With the Climbers finished on Wii U, I think they'd be happy to work them on 3DS and make a quick buck.

 

[False Sense]

hmm through my observations i've noticed throughout you guys' speculating period alot have said.

Chrom is a lock.
Gemastu is a lock.
The base game only is a lock.
Only mewtwo is a lock.
etc.
Now im seeing Wolf is a lock.

I dunno man you guys have a slight chance of being chrom'd again, i always thought we'd get dlc from the beginning and after m2 and chrom wouldn't be in due to "clone reasons" oddly enough the guidance makes fun of this.

What if sakurai sees two semiclones for starfox is "one too many?" I dunno but knowing how crazy sakurai is i wouldnt put it past him. Main point is, be careful on calling locks, most of the time, dey backfire.

Personally im hoping for just newcomers, as veterans as DLC would just be a bore and further reducing the poll's importance to just "smash 5 poll". Just my 2cents. still hype either way, but still skeptical on this whole "shoe in/lock" thing.

Im talking about the whole smash 4 spec period, its been a trend throughout.

Thats the thing.... what if he sees it in wolf? I mean in the mother franchise the second most important is indeed lucas. But with starfox its sort of debatable, falco more important or wolf? even then,krystal or hell, even slippy could have that wow moveset/silly moveset factor. Just sayin'.

Realistically wolf is probably going to be in, but being realistic, given whats went on, I wouldnt call it a 100% lock as some have been saying around the boards and other sites.


I clarified, read again.

People have been calling locks since spec day 1, just wondering as to why, because I dont see the 100% "lockness" there.

You're touching upon one of the bigger issues of speculation.

The truth is, we don't know what the future holds. In reality, there is very little that we can truly guarantee. However, many speculators insist on using such ideas as "locks," "shoo-ins," and "guarantees," when such things cannot be guaranteed. This in turn creates a false sense that there are no other possible outcomes, and such absolute dedication to those convictions distorts the truth and blinds us to reality.

On the subject of Wolf, I believe that he is the single most likely choice for DLC at this point. He really has just about everything in his favor. However, like you say, he isn't guaranteed, and we shouldn't treat him as such.

 

[PeterJude]

I again think it's worth pointing out that it comes across really badly that Ridley threads aren't allowed to exist here as there is zero objective reason for not allowing them.

 

[Ura]

Didn't even know Ridley threads were being locked lol.

No love for the Purple Dragon dude from both Sakurai and the fans.

 

[PeterJude]

Didn't even know Ridley threads were being locked lol.

No love for the Purple Dragon dude from both Sakurai and the fans.

There's plenty of love from the fans. It seems that Smash Boards has arbitrarily ruled that discussion about him isn't allowed for no particularly good reason. Bizarre.

 

[The Light Music Club]

There's plenty of love from the fans. It seems that Smash Boards has arbitrarily ruled that discussion about him isn't allowed for no particularly good reason. Bizarre.

It might have to do with the fact that Sakurai said he will not make him playable.

 

[AEMehr]

I again think it's worth pointing out that it comes across really badly that Ridley threads aren't allowed to exist here as there is zero objective reason for not allowing them.

He's a stage hazard in Smash 4. There's little reason for a topic devoted to his playable inclusion in Smash Bros. to exist in a Smash 4 character discussion forum when he is a stage hazard in Smash 4.

 

[Ura]

There's plenty of love from the fans. It seems that Smash Boards has arbitrarily ruled that discussion about him isn't allowed for no particularly good reason. Bizarre.

I think it might just be a case were they might think he's not able to rejoin due to being a stage hazard.

TBH, I don't really see him getting in to Smash but I don't want to be negative on Ridley so i'm neutral on him.

 

[Starphoenix]

Didn't even know Ridley threads were being locked lol.

No love for the Purple Dragon dude from both Sakurai and the fans.

Because at some point you need to know when the ship has sailed and not coming back. Sakurai has explicitly stated in great detail -- more than any other character -- why Ridley does not work as a fighter. There isn't any changing his mind. The past two Smash titles feature a rather consistently framed Ridley in accordance to the most recent Metroid games. Any attempts to explain this usually leads to heated disagreements on both sides.

Not trying to start a fight but just explain the rationale behind why these threads are likely being closed.

 

[Ura]

He seemed to be really popular in the pre-SSB4 period but Sakurai sorta killed his hype. Poor guy. Maybe he'll get a prominent role in the next Metriod game.

 

[N3ON]

But you never know and Sakurai is unpredictable and if we're loud enough he can't ignore us (even though he already addressed us) and he's wrong about Ridley so it could still happen even though he's the one making the game and the fact that he already plays a role in the game means nothing and OH GAWD THE DENIAL. IT BURNS.



Ridley diehards. You guys are a hoot. But only in small doses.

 

[Deleted member]

You know what? I completely forgot about that.

Except that's not what was said.
The Lucas point and the DLC point were two separate points Sal made.

 

[PeterJude]

He's a stage hazard in Smash 4. There's little reason for a topic devoted to his playable inclusion in Smash Bros. to exist in a Smash 4 character discussion forum when he is a stage hazard in Smash 4.

Except that is a massive assumption to make when you're in a position with zero evidence to back it. The fall back point should be "everyone is fair game", as we simply don't know at this point. Unless you're planning to delete all character discussion on Toon Link of course as "he's part of the Spirit Tracks stage".

It's all well worth pointing out that he's not a stage hazard in Smash 4. The "Ridley" in the game is the clone from Other M, not the actual Ridley. The game could easily have "Ridley" as that stage hazard and actual Ridley as a playable character, just as the game has Link and "Toon Link" as separate characters, as well as Mario and Dr. Mario.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I'm making support icons again. I'll do requests for people I know here, if they want to use these.

Thank you for these.

 

[Starphoenix]

Of all people, N3ON, you should know better than that. Lol

Except that's not what was said.
The Lucas point and the DLC point were two separate points Sal made.

*shrug* I'm too lazy to go and search for the quote so I'll take your word for it.

 

[N3ON]

Of all people, N3ON, you should know better than that. Lol

I'm not in denial. Banjo is going to happen any day now, you'll see.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Except that is a massive assumption to make when you're in a position with zero evidence to back it. The fall back point should be "everyone is fair game", as we simply don't know at this point. Unless you're planning to delete all character discussion on Toon Link of course as "he's part of the Spirit Tracks stage".

It's all well worth pointing out that he's not a stage hazard in Smash 4. The "Ridley" in the game is the clone from Other M, not the actual Ridley. The game could easily have "Ridley" as that stage hazard and actual Ridley as a playable character, just as the game has Link and "Toon Link" as separate characters, as well as Mario and Dr. Mario.

I'm sorry,

Now there's a Clone Ridely and an Actual Ridely? Kind of a dramatic conclusion to come to about him. ..I-I don't understand your thinking.

 

[Starphoenix]

Except that is a massive assumption to make when you're in a position with zero evidence to back it. The fall back point should be "everyone is fair game", as we simply don't know at this point. Unless you're planning to delete all character discussion on Toon Link of course as "he's part of the Spirit Tracks stage".

It's all well worth pointing out that he's not a stage hazard in Smash 4. The "Ridley" in the game is the clone from Other M, not the actual Ridley. The game could easily have "Ridley" as that stage hazard and actual Ridley as a playable character, just as the game has Link and "Toon Link" as separate characters, as well as Mario and Dr. Mario.

How many more incarnations are there to go through? From the looks of it, purple boss Ridley in Brawl was representative of the Ridley.

I'm not in denial. Banjo is going to happen any day now, you'll see.

Never say never. Donkey Kong 64 is coming to the Wii U Virtual Console now. Next it'll be Diddy Kong Racing and then you'll see.

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

But you never know and Sakurai is unpredictable and if we're loud enough he can't ignore us (even though he already addressed us) and he's wrong about Ridley so it could still happen even though he's the one making the game and the fact that he already plays a role in the game means nothing and OH GAWD THE DENIAL. IT BURNS.



Ridley diehards. You guys are a hoot. But only in small doses.

To be fair, the ballot does carry over to the next game as well. He's definitely not happening in Sm4sh DLC, but there is a bit of hope for the next game.

 

[PeterJude]

To be fair, the ballot does carry over to the next game as well. He's definitely not happening in Sm4sh DLC, but there is a bit of hope for the next game.

Again, a massive assumption.

Toon Link was deconfirmed
Mewtwo was gone and not coming back
Lucas was certainly gone as Mewtwo was the only DLC

You never know what's going to happen.

I'm sorry,

Now there's a Clone Ridely and an Actual Ridely? Kind of a dramatic conclusion to come to about him. ..I-I don't understand your thinking.

Well, if you did some reading (or playing) you'd note that the Ridley from Other M is in the game stated to not be the actual Ridley, but rather a clone of Ridley. Not the same character.

It might have to do with the fact that Sakurai said he will not make him playable.

Yeah, it was particularly devastating when Sakurai deconfirmed Villager for all of time too... oh wait...

 

[Starphoenix]

Maybe all this outcry for Ridley will make him transform Dark Samus into a playable character as a concession. I can only hope so.

 

[PeterJude]

For clarification. Why are Ridley threads being closed when he's not even in the game, while the Ice Climbers thread is open when they've been outright stated to not work in the game?

I think both should be open for discussion, but I just find that a strange inconsistency.

 

[N3ON]

Never say never. Donkey Kong 64 is coming to the Wii U Virtual Console now. Next it'll be Diddy Kong Racing and then you'll see.

All I wanted was to tease the Ridley supporters Star. That's all I wanted. Don't make me taste my own medicine.

To be fair, the ballot does carry over to the next game as well. He's definitely not happening in Sm4sh DLC, but there is a bit of hope for the next game.

Yeah maybe if Sakurai's not involved.

 

[AEMehr]

Except that is a massive assumption to make when you're in a position with zero evidence to back it.

The fall back point should be "everyone is fair game", as we simply don't know at this point. Unless you're planning to delete all character discussion on Toon Link of course as "he's part of the Spirit Tracks stage".

Not everyone is fair game. Characters that aren't fighters that effect gameplay do not (or at least should not) have topics open because they already have a set role in Smash for Wii U / 3DS.
Toon Link's role in the Spirit Train stage is purely for aesthetic effect, which is why it works for him to switch out so easily.

It's all well worth pointing out that he's not a stage hazard in Smash 4. The "Ridley" in the game is the clone from Other M, not the actual Ridley. The game could easily have "Ridley" as that stage hazard and actual Ridley as a playable character, just as the game has Link and "Toon Link" as separate characters, as well as Mario and Dr. Mario.

And yet, he is described as the Ridley.

Toon Link is Link as he appeared in Wind Waker, Dr. Mario is Mario as he appeared in Dr. Mario.
Ridley in Smash for Wii U is Ridley as he appeared in Other M. It's supposed to be him, and he's not going to be playable in this iteration of Smash due to that irrefutable fact. At the very least, he's not getting a topic in this sub-forum at least.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

For clarification. Why are Ridley threads being closed when he's not even in the game, while the Ice Climbers thread is open when they've been outright stated to not work in the game?

I think both should be open for discussion, but I just find that a strange inconsistency.

Popo is still a viable candidate alone.

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

Again, a massive assumption.

Toon Link was deconfirmed
Mewtwo was gone and not coming back
Lucas was certainly gone as Mewtwo was the only DLC

You never know what's going to happen.

Those last two things were never the case, not many people thought that Metwo was never coming back, and very few thought that Mewtwo would be the only DLC character. And the Toon Link situation was very different.

Yeah maybe if Sakurai's not involved.

Who knows, maybe he changes his mind, certainly wouldn't be the first time that has happened between games. Maybe he won't even be involved. The point is that not voting for Ridley, assuming you're a Ridley fan, doesn't make his chances any better, so why not do it?

 

[Kalimdori]

For clarification. Why are Ridley threads being closed when he's not even in the game, while the Ice Climbers thread is open when they've been outright stated to not work in the game?

I think both should be open for discussion, but I just find that a strange inconsistency.

Because Ridley speculation and discussion brings out the absolute worst out of people on Smashboards, and attracts moronic trolls from across the internet like flypaper. It saves everyone a massive headache just to keep the forums closed.

This is coming from somebody who absolutely loves Ridley, thinks his chances aren't 100% dead for this game (More like 99.9999999....) and would die of happiness if he got into the game.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

For clarification. Why are Ridley threads being closed when he's not even in the game, while the Ice Climbers thread is open when they've been outright stated to not work in the game?

I think both should be open for discussion, but I just find that a strange inconsistency.

You know, it shouldn't matter what threads are open or not, I think you should vote for Ridley as much as you want, I mean he and the ICs have such a high fan base. What are you worried about?
I think we can just say that, vote for any character you want and call it a day.

 

[PeterJude]

Not everyone is fair game. Characters that aren't fighters that effect gameplay do not (or at least should not) have topics open because they already have a set role in Smash for Wii U / 3DS.
Toon Link's role in the Spirit Train stage is purely for aesthetic effect, which is why it works for him to switch out so easily.
And yet, he is described as the Ridley.

Toon Link is Link as he appeared in Wind Waker, Dr. Mario is Mario as he appeared in Dr. Mario.
Ridley in Smash for Wii U is Ridley as he appeared in Other M. It's supposed to be him, and he's not going to be playable in this iteration of Smash due to that irrefutable fact. At the very least, he's not getting a topic in this sub-forum at least.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Popo is still a viable candidate alone.

That is still a huge assumption to start with. Also, linking the 50-fact extravaganza is not evidence in the slightest. It offers nothing to back your point now that DLC is on the table.

Again, stating someone "already has a place in the game" simply isn't valid when they are literally asking for people's thoughts. They can change things, they can patch things. There's zero reason to kill a discussion on a whim.

Whether or not they describe him as "the Ridley" or not doesn't change that in the lore of the game he's not, and it would be easy to have both in the game with no changes to that particular stage hazard.

The Toon Link comment backs that point entirely as well as if you can have the same character (Toon Link) as "he appeared in Wind Waker", then why discount "Ridley as he appeared in any Metroid game other than Other M" when he is in fact an entirely different character to Other M Ridley.

They are different characters, that isn't even up for debate, that's part of the storyline of Other M. Regardless of what "Smash says" it says plenty of things, and they are ultimately easy to change. If the trophies were evidence we'd have to discount Mewtwo and Lucas.

So no, it's not an "irrefutable fact", it's a massive, poorly justified assumption based on inconsistent logic.

 

[AEMehr]

You know, it shouldn't matter what threads are open or not, I think you should vote for Ridley as much as you want, I mean he and the ICs have such a high fan base. What are you worried about?
I think we can just say that, vote for any character you want and call it a day.

Thank you.

You can vote for whoever you want. I'm going to throw a vote out to Dillon and Quote. They aren't happening, but I'd love to let Nintendo to know a consumer out there is interested seeing those characters in Smash.

 

[Kalimdori]

Not everyone is fair game. Characters that aren't fighters that effect gameplay do not (or at least should not) have topics open because they already have a set role in Smash for Wii U / 3DS.

I'm not arguing for the thread to open, I think it should stay closed, but this is an entirely made up rule by the Smash community, one that is arguably untrue at that. (Pacman ghosts appearing as 3 seperate entities, Duck Hunt Dog as a character and stage element, Dark Samus as an AT and a palette swap, etc.)

 

[PeterJude]

You know, it shouldn't matter what threads are open or not, I think you should vote for Ridley as much as you want, I mean he and the ICs have such a high fan base. What are you worried about?
I think we can just say that, vote for any character you want and call it a day.

I'm not worried about anything. It's just a bizarre decision based on no self consistent logical basis at all. It just comes across really badly that it would be locked when Ridley isn't even in the game.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Thank you.

You can vote for whoever you want. I'm going to throw a vote out to Dillon and Quote. They aren't happening, but I'd love to let Nintendo to know a consumer out there is interested seeing those characters in Smash.

Finally, someone who gets it. Took the words right outta my mouth. Even if characters don't happen, it's still fun to know that every character you vote will be taken into consideration. They might even react like, "What? they want this character in Smash? Huh." or something along those lines.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm detecting dangerous levels of false equivalence in this thread.

 

[AEMehr]

That is still a huge assumption to start with. Also, linking the 50-fact extravaganza is not evidence in the slightest. It offers nothing to back your point now that DLC is on the table.

Again, stating someone "already has a place in the game" simply isn't valid when they are literally asking for people's thoughts. They can change things, they can patch things. There's zero reason to kill a discussion on a whim.

Whether or not they describe him as "the Ridley" or not doesn't change that in the lore of the game he's not, and it would be easy to have both in the game with no changes to that particular stage hazard.

The Toon Link comment backs that point entirely as well as if you can have the same character (Toon Link) as "he appeared in Wind Waker", then why discount "Ridley as he appeared in any Metroid game other than Other M" when he is in fact an entirely different character to Other M Ridley.

They are different characters, that isn't even up for debate, that's part of the storyline of Other M. Regardless of what "Smash says" it says plenty of things, and they are ultimately easy to change. If the trophies were evidence we'd have to discount Mewtwo and Lucas.

So no, it's not an "irrefutable fact", it's a massive, poorly justified assumption based on inconsistent logic.

If you refuse to accept that an existing entity that heavily alters gameplay currently could be flat-out removed in the future, there is no point in continuing this discussion.
Believe what you wish, vote for who you want, you have the right to have your own opinion.

Just know that there will be no Ridley topic in the Smash 4 Character Forum. The character is meant to be Ridley, not his clone.

I'm not arguing for the thread to open, I think it should stay closed, but this is an entirely made up rule by the Smash community, one that is arguably untrue at that. (Pacman ghosts appearing as 3 seperate entities, Duck Hunt Dog as a character and stage element, Dark Samus as an AT and a palette swap, etc.)

Pac-Man's ghosts aren't going to confuse anyone during gameplay, (except maybe in Pac-Maze).
You're not going to confuse Duck Hunt with the completely gigantic 8-bit dog.
Dark Samus is just an AT while Samus has a color palette based on Dark Samus, but that it is a fair point in your favor.

Playable characters generally have one role, and one role alone. Duck Hunt and Toon Link are exceptions, yes, but Toon Link is flat out removed from Spirit Train to avoid any potential confusion and confusing the 8-Bit Dog and the playable Dog is practically impossible.

 

[N3ON]

Who knows, maybe he changes his mind, certainly wouldn't be the first time that has happened between games. Maybe he won't even be involved. The point is that not voting for Ridley, assuming you're a Ridley fan, doesn't make his chances any better, so why not do it?

Because the chances are so small given his statement on Ridley just came out you'd be better off shifting to your next choice. Because Ridley didn't just start getting popular... because it's not lack of demand that's keeping Ridley out... because Ridley already has a role in the game... because Sakurai's problem with Ridley is Ridley himself? I mean these things aren't going to change overnight.

Down the line, for Smash 5, is it possible that Sakurai will change his mind? It's not outside the realm of possibility. Keep in mind that certainly doesn't mean it's likely. But the thing about the people who are still going as hard for Ridley as they ever did is that they've acted like Sakurai never issued that statement, like Ridley hasn't gotten passed over twice already, like nothing has changed and it's still before we got that Pyrosphere caption and it all went to hell. Sure they might've acknowledged it, but saying maybe it'll happen anyway, by whatever justification you want to use, isn't acceptance, it's denial.

There comes a point where you need to cut your losses. There comes a point where you need to face the music. Ridley, at this juncture, is a dead end.

People like to bring up Villager as the example for why Ridley might happen. But you know what happened after Sakurai gave his statement about Villager? People stopped asking for him. Yet it happened anyway. And that's what Ridley fans need to grasp. Ridley is important enough, Ridley is popular enough, and Sakurai is more than aware of the demand. More demand at this point will solve nothing. If it's meant to happen, it'll happen. Eventually. Just wait it out, if it happens great, if not it's certainly not for lack of trying, and in the meantime use your voice where it could actually still effect things.

 

[PeterJude]

If you refuse to accept that a coded entity that heavily alters gameplay currently could be flat-out removed in the future, there is no point in continuing this discussion.
Believe what you wish, vote for who you want, you have the right to have your own opinion as do I.

Just know that there will be no Ridley topic in the Smash 4 Character Forum. The character is meant to be Ridley, not his clone.
Pac-Man's ghosts aren't going to confuse anyone during gameplay, (except maybe in Pac-Maze).
You're not going to confuse Duck Hunt with the completely gigantic 8-bit dog.
Dark Samus is just an AT while Samus has a color palette based on Dark Samus.

Playable characters generally have one role, and one role alone. Duck Hunt and Toon Link are exceptions, yes, but Toon Link is flat out removed from Spirit Train to avoid any potential confusion and confusing the 8-Bit Dog and the playable Dog is practically impossible.

Where did I say that they'd need to remove Stage Hazard Ridley (Clone Ridley) from Pyrosphere (which could be done, but not needed)?

Why would you keep the topic closed where there is no reason to do so, surely with it going against any self consistent piece of logic there is no reason to keep in closed?

Nobody is going to "confuse" an entirely different Ridley, with an entirely different look either are they?

As you state, there are exceptions, even with the exact same character (i.e. Duck Hunt Dog). Actual Ridley looks nothing like Clone Ridley from Other M, and surely nobody is going to get confused beyond "he's purple", in which case I wonder why you can still use a purple Charizard on Pyrosphere. They could even reskin Clone Ridley if it were that much of a problem.

If you concern is that "you just don't want Ridley discussed here as the moderation team can't handle such a large discussion again", just flat out say it. There's no logic in the argument being presented here, but "we can't handle a Ridley thread" is a perfectly valid reason.

 

[Deleted member]

Dude. Just let it go.
(No one post the damn song, please. -_-)

 

[Starphoenix]

Here's a little factoid that should probably be stickied on this forum somewhere: you aren't voting for characters. This isn't a competition where the highest requested character "wins." This is a ballot. It's an opportunity to show your enthusiasm for a character, potentially get picked up by some intern at Nintendo and passed along to some suit in Japan, and maybe, just maybe, pique Sakurai's interest enough to give character _____ a consideration. This isn't any different from the Brawl poll way back when. The only difference is its effects are a little more immediate since we're talking about DLC characters.

Just something to consider.