Character Discussion Thread

[aldelaro5]

People will continue to deny everything.

"We're never getting DLC."

"Oh, Mewtwo will be the only DLC."

"Lucas? Uh, we'll only get line one or two more."


It'd probably feel like a slap to their faces if Snake came back with all the poor excuses used against him.

Dude, I HAVE to say not only this, but even a proof.

I think you should be aware of the counterargument about Paper Mario being redundant considering the amount of mario rep right?

Well, originally, people were basically saying:

"nah, we don't need a fifth rep, the series is just evenly repped now...it would be wasted"

After rosalina:

"WHY? Ok, well that's the last one, no more mario rep should come"

I don't think it is necessary to say that the leak got some flak because of 2 more mario rep, but when the video released:

"WHY? WHY THIS SERIES IS SO OVERREPPED!!!!"

Look, this just proves me that the amount of rep is nor something that matters THAT much. Sure, a 0 and 1 rep is a bigger difference than from 1 to 2, but even then, that depends, is subjective and most importantly, do you really think a character can be less likely JUST because of the amount of rep? I mean, it's called priorities...that's again a subjective area, but it's not arbitrary.

So, on that note, this will pretty much happens for DLC....i call it.

 

[random rendum]

It's called managing your expectations. Especially for things that fall out of your control. See:



I agree and I disagree.

No doubt Nintendo will support their juggernauts especially when they turn a profit. That's basically been their strategy since N64. I was never denying that, it's why we rarely see Nintendo explore new IP, and utterly disregard 3rd party support. (hell, they hardly market their 2nd party these days).

But I feel you underestimate how many man hours go into making ONE character. Something that's been stated by Sakurai again and again. And again, you gotta take the balancing aspect into account. One new character means rebalancing the whole roster to adequate it. It happens in the metagame for pretty much any competitive game where new content can be introduced (see TGCs).

Despite the profit. I would honestly be surprised if we get more than 6 total DLC characters. Other gaming studios and producer are businesses too, and at best they end up adding 5-6 new characters through DLC or future expansions sets. See Blazblue, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, MvC3 etc...

Yes, Nintendo does a great job with their DLC, but sometimes you gotta take into account the amount of time and effort going into it.

Personally, I was more surprised by the ridiculously cheap price it costs to dl Mewtwo. Sony and Capcom should take notes.



I do it make a joke and piss people off, because the angst and anger from overly emotional fanboys fuels my artistic prowess.

Plus, I love a good laugh, amid all this SRSDISCUSHUN about Nintendo games and videogame economics.

im not fanboying I just want moar content

 

[Dinoman96]

People will continue to deny everything.

"We're never getting DLC."

"Oh, Mewtwo will be the only DLC."

"Lucas? Uh, we'll only get line one or two more."


It'd probably feel like a slap to their faces if Snake came back with all the poor excuses used against him.

I remember when people denied Palutena's chances prior to her reveal. Good times.

 

[TheBazry64]

Hey guys
I just realised that we would have a perfect square roster if we would have 7 DLC characters. (including Mewtwo and Lucas)
So 7-2 are 5.
Could it be that we will have exactly 5 DLC characters?

 

[Deleted member]

Hey guys
I just realised that we would have a perfect square roster if we would have 7 DLC characters. (including Mewtwo and Lucas)
So 7-2 are 5.
Could it be that we will have exactly 5 DLC characters?

My, will you just LOOK at that perfect square...

It's just so... PERFECT.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

I remember when people denied Palutena's chances prior to her reveal. Good times.

And a lot people said things like "How would Palutena work, she is a goddess, don't you think it would be out of place to someone in Smash that's a god or goddess?" There are multiple ways that this logic doesn't work.
I don't understand their thinking, hope they learned something

 

[BluePikmin11]

The arguments against Snake is pretty understandable though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

My, will you just LOOK at that perfect square...

It's just so... PERFECT.

Needed Diddy and King Dedede imo.

 

[RoseyBetch]

If I had to guess, I'd say we're getting Mewtwo, Lucas, and Wolf for veterans and then King K. Rool (or Dixie Kong if they want to crush my dreams), Isaac, and one other newcomer. If Krystal is in SFU, I potentially COULD see it. Otherwise, I'd expect the Inklings, even though I wouldn't want them yet.

 

[Deleted member]

The arguments against Snake is pretty understandable though.

Like?

 

[BluePikmin11]

You probably know the common arguments by now, no need to blarf.
:U

Snake (Or Konami to be exact) not having a close relationship with Nintendo as of recent, not iconic as the other 3, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

You probably know the common arguments by now, no need to blarf.
:U

Snake (Or Konami to be exact) not having a close relationship with Nintendo as of recent, not iconic as the other 3, etc.

The arguments against Snake is pretty understandable though.

I fail to see your point.

EDIT: Also
>arguments
>is

The grammar is strong with this one...

 

[BluePikmin11]

My point is that are pretty legitimate arguments against Snake and why he may not be top priority in DLC.
Though if the demand is huge, he'll probably be in, but in the cost of licensing with less DLC characters making it in.

 

[RoseyBetch]

I'm not against Snake. I just prefer a lot of other characters.

 

[Deleted member]

My point is that are pretty legitimate arguments against Snake and why he may not be top priority in DLC.
Though if the demand is huge, he'll probably be in, but in the cost of licensing with less DLC characters making it in.

Meh, seems like a fair point. No arguments there.

 

[N3ON]

I agree and I disagree.

No doubt Nintendo will support their juggernauts especially when they turn a profit. That's basically been their strategy since N64. I was never denying that, it's why we rarely see Nintendo explore new IP, and utterly disregard 3rd party support. (hell, they hardly market their 2nd party these days).

But I feel you underestimate how many man hours go into making ONE character. Something that's been stated by Sakurai again and again. And again, you gotta take the balancing aspect into account. One new character means rebalancing the whole roster to adequate it. It happens in the metagame for pretty much any competitive game where new content can be introduced (see TGCs).

Despite the profit. I would honestly be surprised if we get more than 6 total DLC characters. Other gaming studios and producer are businesses too, and at best they end up adding 5-6 new characters through DLC or future expansions sets. See Blazblue, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, MvC3 etc...

Yes, Nintendo does a great job with their DLC, but sometimes you gotta take into account the amount of time and effort going into it.

Personally, I was more surprised by the ridiculously cheap price it costs to dl Mewtwo. Sony and Capcom should take notes.

Yeah, I'm not trying to discount the effort it indeed does take to add a character, but it's not like those responsible for DLC won't be compensated for their efforts. I mean the whole game was an effort, the 49 characters on the main roster were an effort, but if Nintendo sees the payoff as larger than the effort expended (which it indeed is, probably many times over), it's hardly insurmountable.

And SF and MvC added like a dozen new characters to their most recent titles, just in updated expansions, not DLC. It's simply a matter of how you want to provide the characters to the customers, whether it be all together like Capcom regularly does, or periodically as DLC, like what might happen with Smash.

Needed Diddy and King Dedede imo.

Needed Banjo.

 

[JamesDNaux]

The arguments against Snake have always been null.

He would have never been in Brawl if any of them had any influence.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Like?

The fact that Konami has had zero releases on the Wii U and has not released anything on the 3DS since 2013. On top of that, the man that was instrumental to Snake making his way into Brawl is being forced out of the Konami.

Not much else besides that.

 

[Andinus]

Yeah, I'm not trying to discount the effort it indeed does take to add a character, but it's not like those responsible for DLC won't be compensated for their efforts. I mean the whole game was an effort, the 49 characters on the main roster were an effort, but if Nintendo sees the payoff as larger than the effort expended (which it indeed is, probably many times over), it's hardly insurmountable.

And SF and MvC added like a dozen new characters to their most recent titles, just in updated expansions, not DLC. It's simply a matter of how you want to provide the characters to the customers, whether it be all together like Capcom regularly does, or periodically as DLC, like what might happen with Smash.


Needed Banjo.

My feeling is that Nintendo is probably not going to get greedy here for fear of the backlash, and their stated stance on DLC. And besides, I would bet that they already know how many characters, and how much content they are planning to add. This wasn't what Sakurai wanted, its what Nintendo wanted, this is all budgeted an forecasted out for them I'm sure, and our votes are just to help decide who gets in from the list they already have in mind. Five more characters tops I say, probably 3. They are going to show some class, and not try to milk this endlessly. Thats my prediction anyway.

 

[N3ON]

My feeling is that Nintendo is probably not going to get greedy here for fear of the backlash, and their stated stance on DLC. And besides, I would bet that they already know how many characters, and how much content they are planning to add. This wasn't what Sakurai wanted, its what Nintendo wanted, this is all budgeted an forecasted out for them I'm sure, and our votes are just to help decide who gets in from the list they already have in mind. Five more characters tops I say, probably 3. They are going to show some class, and not try to milk this endlessly. Thats my prediction anyway.

Greed? Greed would be charging top dollar per character, not like four bucks. Greed is amiibo, not putting out a handful of veterans and popular characters as DLC for a good price...

Trust me, there's going to be very very minimal backlash regarding characters getting revealed, no matter how many there are. It's going to get absolutely dwarfed by the hype and the commotion.

You don't see people getting all bothered about the MK DLC or the Hyrule Warriors DLC... people ate that stuff up. If anything the few complaints were about what was picked, not how much was offered.

 

[AEMehr]

The arguments against Snake have always been null.

He would have never been in Brawl if any of them had any influence.

You are free to vote for whoever you wish, but I fear Konami more-or-less kicking out Kojima takes a major toll against Snake in Smash.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Did you guys see the Konami retweeting a Snake request, they seem to be more open to the idea of Snake than Kojima's current state right now.

 

[Deleted member]

And SF and MvC added like a dozen new characters to their most recent titles, just in updated expansions, not DLC. It's simply a matter of how you want to provide the characters to the customers, whether it be all together like Capcom regularly does, or periodically as DLC, like what might happen with Smash.

Fair enough, you're right.

It's actually Arcsys that's super stingy with making new characters. However, I'm still sticking to my guns and saying that we're getting 3 more tops from the ballots though, just "because yes."

Likewise, I still stand that people who believe we're getting 10 new characters are delusional. Simply cause I then have an excuse to post funny gifs that make me laugh.

Plus I love starting **** with people. Who doesn't love poking the bear... right?

The arguments against Snake have always been null.

He would have never been in Brawl if any of them had any influence.

I can agree that licencing costs for a DLC character could pose an issue and actually make him a lower priority over other characters tbh.

However, (and I wish I had the image of the pie chart from yesterday) he stands among the top 3 in Japanese polls for most wanted character.

The fact that Konami has had zero releases on the Wii U and has not released anything on the 3DS since 2013. On top of that, the man that was instrumental to Snake making his way into Brawl is being forced out of the Konami.

Not much else besides that.

Konami not releasing any games on WiiU hardly holds any weight if Snake comes out as one of the most requested characters for DLC worldwide. If anything, it would lend them proof that a fair number of people on Nintendo consoles love MGS, and that the reason Snake Eater 3D sold poorly is cause it was a bad port. If anything, it might encourage them to release more MGS games on Nintendo consoles, especially considering Metal Gear Rising was once set to appear on WiiU, but was then pulled back "because yes."

2nd, I fail to see how the drama between Kojima and Konami bears any influence on the character being playable on a Nintendo game. Both people in Konami, and the series creator wanna see him get back in. There have been tweets from both saying they'd love to see him in Smash, and that they've voted for him to be in. That aside, a cut from that DLC money would be a good incentive for Konami to allow the character back in.

Fan demand is fan demand. If anything, considering how many people are setting up to vote for characters like Snake, Bayonetta, and Wonder Red among others, I think this poll might be a good opportunity for Nintendo to really get in touch with fans and have a glimpse of what many REALLY want, and that toning down game releases through censorship and the like (I'm look at you NoE and NoA, pulling that Tharja trophy) is actually alienating many hardcore fans and doing them more damage than good as a company.

You are free to vote for whoever you wish, but I fear Konami more-or-less kicking out Kojima takes a major toll against Snake in Smash.

I fail to see how that has any influence on the fact.

It's not like Nintendo was involved in the matter. Company matters are company matters. When it comes to business, cold hard cash speaks the loudest. It's not like it's some sort of soap opera going on.

Did you guys see the Konami retweeting a Snake request, they seem to be more open to the idea of Snake than Kojima's current state right now.

I saw it yesterday, and I posted it a while back actually.

 

[Arcanir]

I think the biggest hurdle for Snake is one that all third parties will have for this DLC option, that is the issues that come with being a Third Party character. Unlike characters like Toad, Snake is not owned by Nintendo, which means that the team would have to go with the negotiations and other such factors to get him, which is a much more trying process. Plus, even if the team does go for him, it's not a guarantee he'll return. If Konami or Nintendo don't agree, it's too much work to get him, negotiations don't work out, so on and so forth, he's out of luck, veteran status and popularity be damned. It also doesn't help with that Kojima/Konami fiasco as if he is leaving the company, then that removes a venue that Snake used to get into Brawl and could've used for SSB4's DLC.

In short, he depends on a number of factors that can easily work against him, and I can see them potentially keeping him out of DLC depending on what happens.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Fair enough, you're right.

Konami not releasing any games on WiiU hardly holds any weight if Snake comes out as one of the most requested characters for DLC worldwide. If anything, it would lend them proof that a fair number of people on Nintendo consoles love MGS, and that the reason Snake Eater 3D sold poorly is cause it was a bad port. If anything, it might encourage them to release more MGS games on Nintendo consoles, especially considering Metal Gear Rising was once set to appear on WiiU, but was then pulled back "because yes."

Then why wasn't Snake in the base game?

 

[Andinus]

Greed? Greed would be charging top dollar per character, not like four bucks. Greed is amiibo, not putting out a handful of veterans and popular characters as DLC for a good price...

Trust me, there's going to be very very minimal backlash regarding characters getting revealed, no matter how many there are. It's going to get absolutely dwarfed by the hype and the commotion.

You don't see people getting all bothered about the MK DLC or the Hyrule Warriors DLC... people ate that stuff up. If anything the few complaints were about what was picked, not how much was offered.

So.. okay, 10 characters 5 dollars a character... oh that's like.. almost another game? for not even 20% more content. Sure they might do that, but I don't think they will. They wanna do DLC right from what I've read, and that doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Burruni]

I can see about 5 more DLC characters, Wolf, Snake, a DK newcomer, a Zelda newcomer, and Isaac seem the most likely to me.

I was about to ask who you'd argue being a Zelda newcomer now that Midna and Ghirihim got chopped down by the AT deconfirmations. And then I realized who was posting =P

Legitimately, if we're getting 6 total DLC characters, here is my breakdown.

as veterans.

Newcomers? Inklings seem very probable. Isaac's a possibility, but after that we return to the normal disputes for King K. Rool and the like.

 

[Wintropy]

If we get six max, including the two we've already got, my predictions / hopes would be:




K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Isaac

I'd go nuts if we got Wonder Red or Inkling, of course~ :3

 

[AEMehr]

I fail to see how that has any influence on the fact.

It's not like Nintendo was involved in the matter. Company matters are company matters. When it comes to business, cold hard cash speaks the loudest. It's not like it's some sort of soap opera going on.

Kojima wanted Snake in Melee. Kojima got Snake in Brawl. Kojima was hopeful for Snake in Smash 4.

If Konami actually personally cared, they probably would have tried for Snake in Smash 4. Sakurai had previously stated that Snake never came up.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I'm still throwing some votes towards Simon Belmont and Bomberman.

If you think supporting Snake is rough, try supporting the guys behind him.

 

[Deleted member]

Then why wasn't Snake in the base game?

I dunno.

I didn't work with the Smash 4 development team.

I mean, c'mon man, what answer do you REALLY expect me to give you here?

Kojima wanted Snake in Melee. Kojima got Snake in Brawl. Kojima was hopeful for Snake in Smash 4.

If Konami actually personally cared, they probably would have tried for Snake in Smash 4. Sakurai had previously stated that Snake never came up.

Konami probably doesn't see the numbers to merit the inclusion. Idk.

Why did Konami pull Metal Gear Rising from the WiiU launch line up?

I still fail to see how the drama between those two plays ANY part in Snake's inclusion for Smash DLC, especially when Konami themselves retweeted that they'd like to see him in Smash 4. That's as good a hope as any.

 

[AEMehr]

I still fail to see how the drama between those two plays ANY part in Snake's inclusion for Smash DLC, especially when Konami themselves retweeted that they'd like to see him in Smash 4. That's as good a hope as any.

Well there you go then. I guess he still has a chance.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I'm going to go with 5 not counting Mewtwo and Lucas. I'm thinking:

Wolf
King K Rool
Isaac
Inkling
Rayman OR Bayonetta (They'll probably only have one 3rd party dlc character)

That's my guy instinct. Although I haven't really a clue what's going on with Snake. It certainly doesn't bode well that Kojima is leaving Konami. Another character I feel a bit fuzzy on are the Ice Climbers, although they might struggle in the ballot if people think they're no longer a possibility.

 

[Deleted member]

I just wanna say guys... Megaman has ZERO chance of being in Smash cause of Keiji Inafune leaving Capcom.

The negotiations are too much guys. It's just too much trouble. Fan demand doesn't mean ****.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I dunno.

I didn't work with the Smash 4 development team.

I mean, c'mon man, what answer do you REALLY expect me to give you here?

Yeah, that might have been a bit of a curt way to ask the question, but I think it has merit. Smash is largely a vehicle for advertising other intellectual properties. I doubt Nintendo would want to draw to much attention to games that can not be found on any of their platforms at the moment.

If the outcry for Snake is huge, then I could see Nintendo doing something about it. It would really have to be massive, though.

I just wanna say guys... Megaman has ZERO chance of being in Smash cause of Keiji Inafune leaving Capcom.

The negotiations are too much guys. It's just too much trouble. Fan demand doesn't mean ****.
View attachment 45566

Megaman's history with Nintendo is not comparable to Snakes. He is an NES icon. On top of that, Nintendo and Capcom are working pretty closely together now. Capcom is supporting the 3DS hard; Monster Hunter exclusivity is a huge deal.

 

[Starphoenix]

Still feel someone from Rhythm Heaven is going to show up. Whom it will be, I don't know. I like the idea of the Chorus Men still.

 

[BluePikmin11]

What I'm thinking right now is the priority list, not final of course:
-
-
-
-Dixie Kong
- 5 potential popular ballot characters (Have no idea who they will be)
-
- Chorus Men
- Inkling

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

I'd like to think that somebody like Wolf would be next, possibly being announced at E3 (which should be the next time we get a Direct). If it's a newcomer, I hope it's K. Rool or some other character we weren't expecting.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Megaman's history with Nintendo is not comparable to Snakes.

Yet Snake was the first third party ever in a Smash game.

Not because of his history with Nintendo, but because Sakurai went out of his way to do it for his friend.

That should tell you how much a third party's "closeness" with Nintendo matters. Not at all.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, that might have been a bit of a curt way to ask the question, but I think it has merit. Smash is largely a vehicle for advertising other intellectual properties. I doubt Nintendo would want to draw to much attention to games that can not be found on any of their platforms at the moment.

If the outcry for Snake is huge, then I could see Nintendo doing something about it. It would really have to be massive, though.



Megaman's history with Nintendo is not comparable to Snakes. He is an NES icon. On top of that, Nintendo and Capcom are working pretty closely together now. Capcom is supporting the 3DS hard; Monster Hunter exclusivity is a huge deal.

If anything, like I said, it's a good way of showing Konami that people on their consoles love Metal Gear. Which is true. Same way Monster Hunter got a lot of love on Nintendo platforms, the same would happen with Metal Gear if they actually put some goddamn effort into the games they gave us.

Again, one the excuses Konami gave for pulling MGR was the lack of apparent demand for it:
http://www.destructoid.com/no-metal-gear-rising-on-wii-u-until-konami-sees-demand-243941.phtml

So if Konami see that their IP would sell well on Nintendo, they'll publish for it. Same goes with Snake. If fan demand is there, both Nintendo and Konami would see it, and make negociations, and not just for Snake in Smash, but perhaps some MGS ports for WiiU and 3DS.

MGS HD Collection would be sweet on WiiU, as would Zone of the Enders. Likewise, maybe we can also get some decent Castlevanias on 3DS again. Last good one to come out period was Order of Ecclesia on DS.