Character Competitive Impressions

[Road Death Wheel]

this morning i experienced losing to bowser jr.
jeez this guy was good had to switch off my pit. could not kill him early enough.

switched to ganon still hard time but i never lost after that.

im thinking twice about learning bowser jr match up now

 

[Ffamran]

In fairness, being above your opponent is almost always a bad situation regardless of which matchup you're playing.



We haven't seen nearly enough exploration of Bowser Jr's playstyle for that kind of judgment to be made IMO. Mechakoopa in particular could potentially be a real game-changer for him...

Except Brawl Ganondorf who ain't got hops. Or enough cardio to keep up at all.

 

[Kofu]

Ganondorf's N-air and F-air are safe on block.

I'm pretty skeptical about this from experience. I could see FAir if properly spaced but not really NAir; I've gotten grabbed/ hit for NAir plently of times. I don't pretend to be a master at spacing by any means but spacing as Ganon is absurdly hard with his poor mobility.

N-air can cover spotdodges too. Plus, Ganondorf actually gets out of juggles better than Mario with wizkick and he KILLS people when they make a mistake.

Ganondorf actually has midrange options that are good and rewarding, even safe to use when properly implemented. And his risky options generally have a lot of range and deal massive damage.

What midrange options? His down and side specials? He's certainly more threatening than Mario but being threatening doesn't make your tier placement. He was more threatening than Samus in Brawl but he wasn't considered better than her. In fact, he's still more threatening but I'd still call Samus a better character than Ganon.

And he took 2nd in a 106 man tournament in Japan. This was BEFORE he got buffed too.

I'm aware, and it's certainly a testament to his improved viability. But he's nowhere near middle of viability of the cast. If I remember correctly, there weren't a whole lot of notable Japanese players there either (I could be fully wrong here, feel free to correct me). If you're going to use the argument for Mario players winning because of poor opponents, I can use the same argument for Ganon here.

 

[Ffamran]

this morning i experienced losing to bowser jr.
jeez this guy was good had to switch off my pit. could not kill him early enough.

switched to ganon still hard time but i never lost after that.

im thinking twice about learning bowser jr match up now

Once again, never ever forget about the underdogs aka "the low tiers". It'll be the Jigglypuff/Sonic/Palutena/Bowser Jr./*insert other "low tier" character here* Syndrome again.

This isn't an attack on you, it's more of a warning to everyone who writes off characters because they're "low tier" or whatever.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I firmly believe people should be held to higher standards in this type of discussion. I've already worked with very limited resources to construct very detailed opinions. And I wouldn't be posting anything unless I was CERTAIN that my opinion had solid backing.

So it's cool for you to **** on people's opinion of anything even though they may have more experience than you, and they have the resources (i.e. having the game) to maybe substantiate it? Personally, I'd take the word of the person seriously that actually plays the game over the word of a self-styled armchair hack.

If you can understand that, you can then understand why I am very angry at certain types of responses. I'm not claiming I'm correct all the time. But I REALLY am disgusted by people who believe with less effort and quality observation they are in a position to be disrespectful with me.

I'll let this speak for itself. I'm done.

Smooth Criminal

 

[NairWizard]

I'm not @ Shaya , but I propose moderation of any further discussion on the above topic. This is making my favorite thread a very poor read.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

It'll probably be
Top
High
Mid
Low
Where low is basically Mid, but has 1 or 2 Matchup problems of significance.

If I could hazard a guess for example
Top - Mewtwo
High - Shulk,Marth,Ike,Pit, Gunner????
Mid - Bowser, Gunner???
Low- SwordFighter.

Where a Mid pick is probably viable against most High picks and some Top picks (assuming there is a varied top).

 

[YAYCONFORMITY]

Aaaaaand we're back to discussing Diddy.



There are going to be a million characters in this game with claims to beating Diddy once people train in the matchup, but most of them will be ignoring what the Diddy side can do and just focusing on what their side can do. The Diddy player has a brain (arguably) and a controller in his hands, so he's going to see what's happening and respond to it. Diddy isn't a one-dimensional character; he gets much reward from grabs but he does have an entire kit besides dash grab and up-air, and he will use it to condition you into putting yourself into dash-grabbable positions.

Whenever possible, we should be thinking one step ahead and predicting how the opponent will react to the strategies that we're pulling out. Definitely not saying that the Megaman boards aren't doing this (I don't know; I haven't been there), just pointing it out as a possible trap.

On the subject of Megaman, sure, pellets neutralize peanuts, so Diddy won't be relying on camping Megaman out. Instead, he will be trying to get in past the projectile barrage and land a grab. Megaman's close range options are not that great so Megaman has to try to use Leaf Shield and safe midrange zoning tactics to keep Diddy out (Megaman's aerial game is really good; f-air and b-air especially are dominant options). Is this effective against Diddy? Maybe. I don't really think so because Diddy is really fast, and he can mix up side-bs and banana tosses at appropriate times to still land grabs/get Megaman in the air (or just in close range), where he's less good/safe. His f-air is still a force to be reckoned with, and d-tilt pressure can be quite intense when he does manage to get in.

In the air, Megaman doesn't really have a reliable way to land against up-air, at least I don't think he does from my limited experience with the character. D-air is really easy to avoid and he has no fast n-air interrupt. Does Leaf Shield in the air protect against attacks?

When Diddy is offstage, Leaf Shield only gimps if the Diddy tries to recover from directly below. Megaman does have a really solid way to punish side-b to the stage, though, with his f-smash being as awesome as it is. There's not much a Diddy can do against a charged f-smash into a Leaf Shield. So I'm guessing that Diddy will try to recover high first, in which case Megaman does have that up-air to catch him out, but that won't send Diddy offstage again so unless it kills it might not do that much good in gimping. Seems like it's safer for Diddy to just recover high since recovering low can be risky against Megaman. So that's still pretty good for Megaman, at least: a Diddy who always recovers high (or most of the time, with some low mixups) will be taking damage on landing, and at higher percents getting knocked off again while trying to get back to the stage.

On the flipside, Diddy can't edgeguard Megaman as well as you would think, so overall, just based on my initial thoughts, I'd say that the matchup is pretty doable and at this stage I'd call it even. I don't really see how Megaman wins, though. D-throw to up-air / f-air didn't stop being ridiculously good or anything.

Mega Man has enough tools that Diddy will have a lot of trouble getting in with a grab. Mega Man can fend off bananas and peanuts well, not to mention side B. Leaf shield might be useful in stopping Uair, depending on how high you are above Diddy. The good thing about it is it gives your airdodge a hitbox, which makes it much safer.

The question for Mega Man is how he actually lands the KO. Fsmash actually may be his best tool here, as it should be relatively safe, and can catch Diddy if he's over aggressive. It's not exactly the most powerful move, but it at least gives a gimp opportunity. Otherwise, Diddy is reasonably vulnerable to an Uair, but that involves grabbing Diddy, which lets him get too close for comfort. Similarly, Dsmash and Usmash are very punishable. Metal Blade from the air can combo into an Utilt to KO at really low percentages, but it's gimmicky, and will be hard to pull off consistently.

Basically, I think Mega Man can rack up damage really well, but has to hit a strong read to actually put Diddy away.

 

[Elegant]

Once again, never ever forget about the underdogs aka "the low tiers". It'll be the Jigglypuff/Sonic/Palutena/Bowser Jr./*insert other "low tier" character here* Syndrome again.

This isn't an attack on you, it's more of a warning to everyone who writes off characters because they're "low tier" or whatever.

Sonic is pretty good this time around imo o.o

 

[Ffamran]

Sonic is pretty good this time around imo o.o

Brawl Sonic. I was talking about past, early tiers calling Melee Jigglypuff useless, Brawl Sonic worthless, SSB4 Palutena not viable, and SSB4 Bowser Jr. not relevant.

So, never make assumptions and always keep an eye on your enemies even if they're a drooling buffoon eating mud.

 

[Elegant]

Brawl Sonic. I was talking about past, early tiers calling Melee Jigglypuff useless, Brawl Sonic worthless, SSB4 Palutena not viable, and SSB4 Bowser Jr. not relevant.

So, never make assumptions and always keep an eye on your enemies even if they're a drooling buffoon eating mud.

Hungrybox Jigglypuff <3

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Don't forget .

Happened to them in both games. Iirc, ICs are like 18th on the first tier list in melee lol. Now they're top 8.

Anyways, to keep this on topic...

Sometimes I forget exists because few people play.

Thoughts? Feelings? Impressions?

 

[Frostav]

It'll probably be
Top
High
Mid
Low
Where low is basically Mid, but has 1 or 2 Matchup problems of significance.

If I could hazard a guess for example
Top - Mewtwo
High - Shulk,Marth,Ike,Pit, Gunner????
Mid - Bowser, Gunner???
Low- SwordFighter.

Where a Mid pick is probably viable against most High picks and some Top picks (assuming there is a varied top).

Four tiers would be pretty good.

But once, just once, I would love to see a Smash game where the worst character in the game can go toe-to-toe with the best and win if their player is good enough.

Like...in Guilty Gear, there's a Japanese player called FAB who plays Potemkin. He himself thinks Pot is currently the worst character in Guilty Gear Xrd...but he still beats almost everyone he fights because he is just that good. I wanna see that with Smash. I really do. This game might be the closest to that we'll get in a long time.

 

[A2ZOMG]

What midrange options? His down and side specials? He's certainly more threatening than Mario but being threatening doesn't make your tier placement. He was more threatening than Samus in Brawl but he wasn't considered better than her. In fact, he's still more threatening but I'd still call Samus a better character than Ganon.

Samus has some options that literally don't have direct or indirect counters (Z-air, mostly), and her survivability is top 5 in every Smash game, so the lower reward Samus has on some of her moves is trivialized to an extent when Samus actually forces the game to be played totally differently in some cases and when she's actually by design a character that is immune to a lot of common abuses.

That is not Mario by a longshot. And for that matter, he doesn't even outdamage Samus.

Samus at any rate is underrated. It's pretty hard to be a bad character in this game if you are immune to edgeguarding and 70% of conventional juggle traps, which is an accurate description of Smash 4 Samus. On top of the fact Charge Shot is RIDICULOUS. Ganondorf with Charge Shot instead of Warlock Punch? Sign me up for S tier!

So it's cool for you to **** on people's opinion of anything even though they may have more experience than you, and they have the resources (i.e. having the game) to maybe substantiate it? Personally, I'd take the word of the person seriously that actually plays the game's word over the word of self-styled armchair hack.

Do you understand how frustrating and unhelpful it is to just state an opinion that isn't backed by anything? And you're missing the bigger point. NAKAT just randomly saying "Mario is mad good" isn't what I'd call an opinion. It's a statement, and it helps nobody without context. Yes I know he plays Mario in tournament. What exactly happened in his matches? Did he lose to Dabuz's Rosalina in tournament because of a skill difference, because he didn't use enough B-throw, or maybe just because Mario's recovery and landing options are terrible? That's the stuff that needs to be talked about.

 

[Browny]

There are going to be a million characters in this game with claims to beating Diddy once people train in the matchup, but most of them will be ignoring what the Diddy side can do and just focusing on what their side can do. The Diddy player has a brain (arguably) and a controller in his hands, so he's going to see what's happening and respond to it. Diddy isn't a one-dimensional character; he gets much reward from grabs but he does have an entire kit besides dash grab and up-air, and he will use it to condition you into putting yourself into dash-grabbable positions.

Look at this guy with the 31-day account on SWF and making the best post in this thread so far.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

amus at any rate is underrated. It's pretty hard to be a bad character in this game if you are immune to edgeguarding and 70% of conventional juggle traps, which is an accurate description of Smash 4 Samus. On top of the fact Charge Shot is RIDICULOUS. Ganondorf with Charge Shot instead of Warlock Punch? Sign me up for S tier!

What's so good about Charge Shot?

I haven't heard much about it because well... Samus isn't used often. Is it still mainly a punish tool? Did the new air dodge mechanics buff it a lot?

Also I feel like Samus really misses that Nair... and customs. Custom Up B 3 kills super early. Slow Charge Shot allows for great traps, tripping Bombs actually give it a use (even if its small and niche, its something), and Relentless Missiles help for approach a lot. EDIT: Also gotta mention that roll since rolls are decent now.

That roll tho.

Look at this guy with the 31-day account on SWF and making the best post in this thread so far.

SolidSense lives up to his name.

Good guy.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

But once, just once, I would love to see a Smash game where the worst character in the game can go toe-to-toe with the best and win if their player is good enough.

Umm you can? Make better reads?
Generally the worst character in the game is specifically the worst because of their matchups against the people at the top, not everyone else. Obviously if Sheik + Charizard is the meta, everyone plays sheik or Charizard and your character has the worst Sheik & Charizard matchups, then your character is bad in the meta and will probably be unfavored just because of those 2 characters.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

lol theirs a first for everything lets ban mario chat xd.

oh and heres a character who we rarely talk about. charazard

 

[LiteralGrill]

Here's the results of the /r/smashbros monthly voted tier list!
​

Just a quick reminder, this list is obviously not perfectly accurate. This is a way to see what the general masses think of each character and to encourage character discussion on /r/smashbros. I'll be comparing this to last month's results for those interested.

If you want check out the results thread on /r/smashbros where we'll have discussion topics for each character. They're a great way to talk about how to play as/against characters and explain character strengths/weaknesses.

Without further ado, here we go!!!

S Tier:

(+8) (±0) (-2) (-1)

A TIER:

(+1) (-2) (0) (+4) (-3)

B Tier:

(-1) (-1) (+16) (+14) (+2)

C+ Tier:
(+2) (-3) (-3) (+2) (+6) (+11)

C Tier:

(-2)(+2)(±0)(+8)(-13) (-8) (-5) (+2) (+14)

D Tier:

(+3) (+9) (+18) (-8) (-1) (-1) (-8) (+1)

E Tier:

(-18) (-3) (-3) (+10) (+6) (+2) (1)

F Tier:
(-4)(±0)(-7)(-3)(-16)(-2)(±0)


Things of note:

• Obviously Captain Falcon got voted up really high purely from popularity, especially on /r/smashbros.
• Some characters made MASSIVE jumps. Public perception of these characters could have been heavily influenced by the recent patch.
• Tournament results may have moved some of these guys up/down as well.
• No one thinks Mii Swordfighter is good.

Thoughts everyone?

 

[Shaya]

A2 your existence in this thread is actually toxic because of your emotional triggers to Mario. I don't know how many times I need to tell you to stop, how many times I need to wake up to you derailing the thread or how many times we'll laugh it off before I have to seriously consider making personal ways/alterations just to deal with you. You're doing more harm than good and I think I've given you more "mental strikes" than three. My next step will be seen as very unfair to you. I would actually love to potentially have a good conversation about Mario but no one can, because of you. People who have been here a while just know not to bring him up, because of you. People can bring in evidence of tournament appearances (i.e. thinkaman losing to one, vex losing to one) or other doings well, and it's worthless and starts a heated argument, because of you.

It's frustrating for me because you're otherwise a good contributor, but the only way I feel I can stop you from continuing this is by removing your access to this entire section. You know who's level headed about having higher standards? Maybe not me, but the general populace of this thread tends to at least. How many times are you going to clash before you look at yourself and make concerted efforts to improve? Continual prods isn't effective.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Samus at any rate is underrated. It's pretty hard to be a bad character in this game if you are immune to edgeguarding and 70% of conventional juggle traps, which is an accurate description of Smash 4 Samus. On top of the fact Charge Shot is RIDICULOUS. Ganondorf with Charge Shot instead of Warlock Punch? Sign me up for S tier!

Sorry time out.
How can anyone talk about Samus before talking about my boy Mii Jacob-Stole-your-charge-shot-and-missiles Jebediah Gunner the first.

Samus ability to recover is strong yes, but on-stage? I see Gunner as the better zoner, his cqc isn't even sloppy, but perhaps Samus has a better jab? I should check their frame data.

Edit: Oh snap a list...
All I can say at glance being lazily editing this?
Charizard, Paletuna, Falco, MK, Gunner? Hell no.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Here's the results of the /r/smashbros monthly voted tier list!
​

Just a quick reminder, this list is obviously not perfectly accurate. This is a way to see what the general masses think of each character and to encourage character discussion on /r/smashbros. I'll be comparing this to last month's results for those interested.

If you want check out the results thread on /r/smashbros where we'll have discussion topics for each character. They're a great way to talk about how to play as/against characters and explain character strengths/weaknesses.

Without further ado, here we go!!!

S Tier:

(+8) (±0) (-2) (-1)

A TIER:

(+1) (-2) (0) (+4) (-3)

B Tier:

(-1) (-1) (+16) (+14) (+2)

C+ Tier:
(+2) (-3) (-3) (+2) (+6) (+11)

C Tier:

(-2)(+2)(±0)(+8)(-13) (-8) (-5) (+2) (+14)

D Tier:

(+3) (+9) (+18) (-8) (-1) (-1) (-8) (+1)

E Tier:

(-18) (-3) (-3) (+10) (+6) (+2) (1)

F Tier:
(-4)(±0)(-7)(-3)(-16)(-2)(±0)


Things of note:

• Obviously Captain Falcon got voted up really high purely from popularity, especially on /r/smashbros.
• Some characters made MASSIVE jumps. Public perception of these characters could have been heavily influenced by the recent patch.
• Tournament results may have moved some of these guys up/down as well.
• No one thinks Mii Swordfighter is good.

Thoughts everyone?

everything A tier and below i greatly dissagree with. not to say i dont dissagree with the s tier as well. just not as much.

 

[HeroMystic]

One tournament with one good Ike and he jumps 18 spots.

 

[NairWizard]

​

A TIER:
(+4)

What, really?

I mean, really?

I'm not A2 but this is hilarious(ly poor placement).

 

[Nobie]

In fairness, being above your opponent is almost always a bad situation regardless of which matchup you're playing.

You're right but I think at least other characters have huge hitbox neutral airs or quick down airs to challenge. Mega Man has Metal Blade and Hard Knuckle but those seem tricky to use against Diddy. The best tools might be just good horizontal mobility in the air combined with a decent fall speed, and the ability to throw out a rush coil to escape an attack from below.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

What, really?

I mean, really?

I'm not A2 but this is hilarious.

They also have Falco as 2nd worst in the game so.... yeah.

There's a lot of disagreement out there on Falco's prospects, but to see Falco regarded as that far down... Surprising.

 

[Lavani]

Thoughts everyone?

• How the hell is Mario 41 ranks above Dr. Mario?
• How the hell is Mario 41 ranks above anyone?
  
• Dedede rising when 1.0.4 was nothing but poor to him...?

They also have Falco as 2nd worst in the game so.... yeah.

There's a lot of disagreement out there on Falco's prospects, but to see Falco regarded as that far down... Surprising.

This too.

 

[A2ZOMG]

What's so good about Charge Shot?

I haven't heard much about it because well... Samus isn't used often. Is it still mainly a punish tool? Did the new air dodge mechanics buff it a lot?

Also I feel like Samus really misses that Nair... and customs. Custom Up B 3 kills super early. Slow Charge Shot allows for great traps, tripping Bombs actually give it a use (even if its small and niche, its something), and Relentless Missiles help for approach a lot. EDIT: Also gotta mention that roll since rolls are decent now.

25 damage fully charged, kills at like 90% when fresh. Fast and covers a lot of options. It's numerically an amazing punish.

Sorry time out.
How can anyone talk about Samus before talking about my boy Mii Jacob-Stole-your-charge-shot-and-missiles Jebediah Gunner the first.

Samus ability to recover is strong yes, but on-stage? I see Gunner as the better zoner, his cqc isn't even sloppy, but perhaps Samus has a better jab? I should check their frame data.

Edit: Oh snap a list...
All I can say at glance being lazily editing this?
Charizard, Paletuna, Falco, MK, Gunner? Hell no.

I'll admit, I was honestly too lazy to check Gunner in depth earlier, hence why I never said anything about the character. I know his air zoning is good, and he gets ranged trap setups not completely unlike Duck Hunt.

Though his Charge Shot from what I checked isn't as strong as Samus's. 22 damage is still GREAT no doubt. Just Samus charge shot is basically the best of its kind, plus hers definitely KOs earlier, visually appears bigger (not sure about hitbox yet).

 

[HeroMystic]

What, really?

I mean, really?

I'm not A2 but this is hilarious.

I was trying to ignore that to preserve everyone's sanity.

Who is placing that well with Mario that gives everyone the opinion that he's A tier?

 

[Ffamran]

One tournament with one good Ike and he jumps 18 spots.

Doesn't that happen regularly with other characters too?

Sorry time out.
How can anyone talk about Samus before talking about my boy Mii Jacob-Stole-your-charge-shot-and-missiles Jebediah Gunner the first.

Samus ability to recover is strong yes, but on-stage? I see Gunner as the better zoner, his cqc isn't even sloppy, but perhaps Samus has a better jab? I should check their frame data.

Edit: Oh snap a list...
All I can say at glance being lazily editing this?
Charizard, Paletuna, Falco, MK, Gunner? Hell no.

I know, right? FAAAAAAALCO!!!

He should be C Tier at the very least. MK, I can't say beyond that he like Falco were abandoned after people noticed how much they changed. I don't know about Palutena since she might be one of those characters who are drastically effected by customs such as being "low" with defaults and "high" with customs. So, I will say no more of this since I don't compete anyway.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I'll admit, I was honestly too lazy to check Gunner in depth earlier, hence why I never said anything about the character. I know his air zoning is good, and he gets ranged trap setups not completely unlike Duck Hunt.

Though his Charge Shot from what I checked isn't as strong as Samus's. 22 damage is still GREAT no doubt. Just Samus charge shot is basically the best of its kind, plus hers definitely KOs earlier, visually appears bigger (not sure about hitbox yet).

The moment you investigate Gunner you go "wtf? This characters good?"
@ san. i know you feel me

MK wasn't just abandoned
HE WAS ALSO BUFFED LAST PATCH.
This isn't even the release MK.

I greatly value the list however I may disagree because it is a talking point and it is good to see a demographics opinions.

 

[Piford]

Here's the results of the /r/smashbros monthly voted tier list!
​

Just a quick reminder, this list is obviously not perfectly accurate. This is a way to see what the general masses think of each character and to encourage character discussion on /r/smashbros. I'll be comparing this to last month's results for those interested.

If you want check out the results thread on /r/smashbros where we'll have discussion topics for each character. They're a great way to talk about how to play as/against characters and explain character strengths/weaknesses.

Without further ado, here we go!!!

S Tier:

(+8) (±0) (-2) (-1)

A TIER:

(+1) (-2) (0) (+4) (-3)

B Tier:

(-1) (-1) (+16) (+14) (+2)

C+ Tier:
(+2) (-3) (-3) (+2) (+6) (+11)

C Tier:

(-2)(+2)(±0)(+8)(-13) (-8) (-5) (+2) (+14)

D Tier:

(+3) (+9) (+18) (-8) (-1) (-1) (-8) (+1)

E Tier:

(-18) (-3) (-3) (+10) (+6) (+2) (1)

F Tier:
(-4)(±0)(-7)(-3)(-16)(-2)(±0)


Things of note:

• Obviously Captain Falcon got voted up really high purely from popularity, especially on /r/smashbros.
• Some characters made MASSIVE jumps. Public perception of these characters could have been heavily influenced by the recent patch.
• Tournament results may have moved some of these guys up/down as well.
• No one thinks Mii Swordfighter is good.

Thoughts everyone?

C+ - E (And some of F) tier seems really like a cluster of equally viable characters. B tier is just slightly standing out and (Most of ) F is only a bit worse. From F, Wii Fit Trainer, Falco, and Zelda probably can be moved to the cluster of equally viable characters. A tier seems decently better than B, but not by Much. S tier is definitely a step ahead.

 

[Browny]

But once, just once, I would love to see a Smash game where the worst character in the game can go toe-to-toe with the best and win if their player is good enough.

Pichu vs Fox in melee

 

[NairWizard]

, , , , , , , , and are the most misplaced to me, in no particular order. Can't speak in depth on most of these characters, but the Palutena and Pikachu placements are hilariously poor in particular from those that I can speak on (though Mario and Falco are more egregiously wrong, I think).

From my mains list (of 3), the last one, Shulk, is fine, though I'd still argue him for Top Tier, but then again, I don't see Diddy as being far and away the best anyway.

 

[san.]

Been winning locals at least with , and I know others like Ryo are doing just fine, top 2 at least from what I can recall. Not much, but it's something I guess.

@ ChronoPenguin

Indeed. Considering making Mii Gunner one of my secondaries along with Pikachu and Jigglypuff. Admittedly, I've only a few hours in-person experience against other people, but the positive qualities were blatant to me.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I am confuzzled about DHD's placement in that list. D3's too.

...as a matter of fact, I'm pretty damn confuzzled about the whole part of it that isn't S tier.

Smooth Criminal

 

[TTTTTsd]

Why the hell is Dr. Mario so lowwwww on that list? I'm going to be frank, I think Mario's up way too high as well (not underrating but uh, yeah).

Dr. Mario is not even close to 41 tiers worse than Mario in a relative or comparative sense. At all. Nor is he BOTTOM 10 in this game IMO (And that's just my opinion). I don't think Captain Falcon should be up that high either, that's pretty generous.

My feedback is gonna be like it is to any other community tierlist, the first problem is that it's a community tierlist. Usually the tier lists I follow are the ones put together by top level players just so...yeah.

 

[NairWizard]

You guys have convinced me to give Gunner a shot in my next tournament. What set is the most viable in your opinions @ ChronoPenguin and @ san. ?

 

[Oddyesy]

Well, you guys should keep in mind that the list that Capps just posted was from upvotes/downvotes on Reddit, so bias/current events (Diddy pls)/hivemind or whatever played a big part in this.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Doesn't that happen regularly with other characters too?


I know, right? FAAAAAAALCO!!!

He should be C Tier at the very least. MK, I can't say beyond that he like Falco were abandoned after people noticed how much they changed. I don't know about Palutena since she might be one of those characters who are drastically effected by customs such as being "low" with defaults and "high" with customs. So, I will say no more of this since I don't compete anyway.

dunno even a plautena paced really well at the latest k star