Character Competitive Impressions

[Smooth Criminal]

UMVC3 is solid because alot of chars are strong. I'll take that over only 10 chars actually being playable i.e MvC2.

12 chars in MvC2, actually. And UMvC3, eh, I'll give you, but I feel like there's a pecking order in that mess somewhere. Some characters and shells are dumber than others, straight up.

Also, knowing a character right now =/= knowing the meta overall. As Gea said, For Glory is beans for these projections.

Smooth Criminal

 

[SonicZeroX]

I'm watching the VGBC tournament and one thing I've noticed is if the opponent has an attack that's safe on Rosalina's shield, they can use it to poke and easily kill Luma.

Also if Rosalina takes a solid hit near the edge then Luma can be killed in one hit, unless people have found a way to save Luma from tumbling.

Also as silly as Rosalina's down B is, in some ways it's not as good as an actual reflector because unless your opponent is close to you it doesn't generate any actual threat in return. If you shoot Fox and he reflects then you end up hurting yourself. If you shoot Rosalina and she starts absorbing well you can just keep on shooting no problem, especially if you have the lead.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yeah but this is a puppetmaster character. Usually it takes time for really nasty tech to get discovered and mastered. Usually these characters seem super weak due to puppetmaster's weakness until mastery of the puppet is reached. This is how it was with Viola in SCV. She seemed so weak that the developers buffed her, but the patch occurred a few weeks after some crazy tech was discovered with her delayed orb attack, and she became the best character in the game.

The scary thing is that Rosalina still hasn't even developed and she's already strong, and there will be new tech discovered that will make her even stronger. Most recently, there's the Luma desync from auto cancelled aerials. Rosalina can do an aerial close to the ground that immediately autocancels without a hitbox coming out, but Luma does her aerial attack anyway, resulting in safe shield pressure or a true combo.

lolol... ****in SICK BRO!!! thats the **** i LIKE

 

[Gea]

The scary thing is that Rosalina still hasn't even developed and she's already strong, and there will be new tech discovered that will make her even stronger. Most recently, there's the Luma desync from auto cancelled aerials. Rosalina can do an aerial close to the ground that immediately autocancels without a hitbox coming out, but Luma does her aerial attack anyway, resulting in safe shield pressure or a true combo.

While this has some really interesting implications, you have to remember two things:
1. It requires luma

2. Her short hop may as well take an hour until she lands. This would be broken if she had Sheik's jump. She doesn't. It's another option you have to be aware of lest you eat a luma nair into usmash, but ultimately it's really situational.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I was expecting Rosalina to become (one of) the best as people improved with her, but I wasn't expecting her to start dominating right out of the ****ing gate. That's the scary part - it didn't even take any time for the "theory" to start becoming reality.

That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the character that most people seem to have - that you need to have excellent control of Luma in order to become successful with Rosalina. That isn't even necessarily the case. If you watch how Rain beats people with Rosalina you'll soon realize that he's not even doing anything remarkable with Luma.

The truth is that Rosalina would already be a good character without Luma by her side. Her basic tools are somewhat straightforward and not that hard to use. Her recovery, her aerials, her dash attak and her throws are all at least very solid and serve a clear purpose. I'm pretty sure not a single of her moves is useless. I wouldn't be surprised if all of her moves were good in some way. And it all doesn't really have to do anything with Luma. The front hitbox of her nair is still impossible to punish if Luma isn't there.

Just because her potential seems to be almost immeasurable doesn't mean that she's difficult to pick up.

 

[Signia]

While this has some really interesting implications, you have to remember two things:
1. It requires luma

2. Her short hop may as well take an hour until she lands. This would be broken if she had Sheik's jump. She doesn't. It's another option you have to be aware of lest you eat a luma nair into usmash, but ultimately it's really situational.

She doesn't have to do it from short hop. She can do it just from coming down in general, and can do it from the ledge, or from jumping up to a platform to decrease her air time. It's not like people will predictably run up, short hop, and do the tech, they'll mix it into everything else. Every time she has Luma and is landing she can use this technique with little or no consequence.

 

[Gea]

And that involves doing nothing until landing. It's like saying counters on the way down are OP.

Edit: Let me clarify that I'm not discounting that this is a valid option. SH airdodge autocancel nair is silly, but what I am saying is that this isn't what is going to suddenly make Rosalina unbeatable or even drastically change any MU. It just gives her another option. IMO videos of it doing things like getting 3-4 hit combos is a lot like GiMR's jab lock stuff with Doc. Yeah, in theory you can do that. In reality it's not going to happen every match, or even with regular frenquency.

 

[A2ZOMG]

That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the character that most people seem to have - that you need to have excellent control of Luma in order to become successful with Rosalina. That isn't even necessarily the case. If you watch how Rain beats people with Rosalina you'll soon realize that he's not even doing anything remarkable with Luma.

The truth is that Rosalina would already be a good character without Luma by her side. Her basic tools are somewhat straightforward and not that hard to use. Her recovery, her aerials, her dash attak and her throws are all at least very solid and serve a clear purpose. I'm pretty sure not a single of her moves is useless. I wouldn't be surprised if all of her moves were good in some way. And it all doesn't really have to do anything with Luma. The front hitbox of her nair is still impossible to punish if Luma isn't there.

Just because her potential seems to be almost immeasurable doesn't mean that she's difficult to pick up.

Like...this a million times.

I've seen plenty of matches where a Rosalina player tries too hard to do fancy things with Luma, when most of the time the easiest and simplest punishes are already things Rosalina does well.

 

[Signia]

And that involves doing nothing until landing.

No, you just have to be able act near the ground, you don't have to do nothing until you land. Remember the "air dodge cancel," inputting an aerial right before you hit the ground to avoid lag? If Rosalina does that with Luma she'll be able to air dodge close to the ground safely while throwing out an attack with Luma and being able to capitalize on the attack. You can probably full hop aerial, have the aerial completely recover, then do an aerial close to the ground to initiate the technique.

It's like saying counters on the way down are OP.

Uh. What? Gonna have to explain this one.

 

[TTTTTsd]

This is scaring me something fierce. Does this spell unwinnable MUs again?

Now I'm really paranoid about where this is gonna go. Like, now what? I guess the best we can do is try to find some form of counter tech, I suppose.

 

[Gea]

My point is that yes, it is another option she has. It hasn't and isn't shown to drastically change any MU. You get kneejerk reactions like:

This is scaring me something fierce. Does this spell unwinnable MUs again?

Now I'm really paranoid about where this is gonna go. Like, now what? I guess the best we can do is try to find some form of counter tech, I suppose.

Like walkaway space whatever or challenge the slow floaty character with an aerial? It just forces characters to be careful waiting in shield close to her.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I suppose, but it's always worrying when this kind of thing has happened before in games like this.

I guess we'll have to wait and see, I'm not really claiming anything but I'm gonna be prepared for it if anything bad goes down. Not saying it will or won't, but it never hurts to accept the possibility.

On the other hand we have the WiiU version with superior controls so that's when things will really run wild. What I will try and do is learn how to hopefully fight this character and maybe contribute to the meta if I can get the money to travel and play locals.

I guess the most I'll have to do is try and play against her differently.

 

[NairWizard]

There were various times throughout Brawl's metagame development during which people believed Meta Knight to have bad or even matchups. Diddy Kong, Snake, Olimar, Ice Climbers, Falco, Fox, Pikachu - even ROB at the beginning was suggested by some. Over time, Meta Knight's metagame evolved and these characters turned out to be disadvantaged after all. I believe that the same will happen to many of Rosalina's supposedly bad match-ups. I'm not comparing Meta Knight to Rosalina, of course: I think that Rosalina's design is significantly more balanced due to her tall/light/floaty nature.

Ultimately I think that what we really need (other than more experience and a national or two) is frame data. Intuition is great but I'm not really sure how punishable things like Rosalina's d-smash to d-tilt are right now--it seems almost unpunishable, or at least the window seems very small, but I'm not sure without the stats. Meta Knight's frame data was monstrous: that f-roll and airdodge were ridiculous. That data confirmed the inklings we already had of an overpowered character.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I might add that since this game is similar to Brawl in certain aspects of its meta, deciding matchups earlier on is a lot more reasonable than it was way back when. Not to say it's finite or cannot change but, we've experienced this kind of game before albeit way less polished, but we have more experience with this KIND of meta.

Granted, yeah, I wanna give it time before we say OP or not, but I think we can make some estimations to a healthy degree about MUs.

 

[A2ZOMG]

There were various times throughout Brawl's metagame development during which people believed Meta Knight to have bad or even matchups. Diddy Kong, Snake, Olimar, Ice Climbers, Falco, Fox, Pikachu - even ROB at the beginning was suggested by some. Over time, Meta Knight's metagame evolved and these characters turned out to be disadvantaged after all. I believe that the same will happen to many of Rosalina's supposedly bad match-ups. I'm not comparing Meta Knight to Rosalina, of course: I think that Rosalina's design is significantly more balanced due to her tall/light/floaty nature.

Ultimately I think that what we really need (other than more experience and a national or two) is frame data. Intuition is great but I'm not really sure how punishable things like Rosalina's d-smash to d-tilt are right now--it seems almost unpunishable, or at least the window seems very small, but I'm not sure without the stats. Meta Knight's frame data was monstrous: that f-roll and airdodge were ridiculous. That data confirmed the inklings we already had of an overpowered character.

I have some frame estimates for Rosalina's D-smash. They MAY NOT BE 100% ACCURATE because I don't have high quality 60 fps footage, but I believe these numbers at the very least are likely accurate within an error margin of 1 or at worst 2 frames.

First hits around: ~8-9

Ends around: ~39

So realistically her D-smash should be close to around -29 on block if we assume 2 frames of shieldstun (her D-smash iirc does 7 damage). Not a move she should be trying to spam or space with honestly, though it does have decent range.

 

[ROOOOY!]

On the other hand we have the WiiU version with superior controls so that's when things will really run wild.

I don't think I've seen a single character board not claiming this john. Everyone seems to be like ''oh when the wii u version is released X will be high/top tier''. REALLY?
The new controls will only really deal with spacing (though if you can't space on 3ds version god help you). The thing that's neglected is that a lot of characters who really depend on spacing, use Marth as an example, get rek'd by people who can actually space themselves. So, in short, aren't controller johns a moot point? Mechanics being the same in both versions and all.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'm not johning at all. Where did that look like a complaint? I'm just saying that with a more comfortable controller, more things will be possible. I think you need to like, relax.

Let me use a nice example of Dr. Mario. Mashing B on the 3DS is really suboptimal, with custom controls I could map Y to special and get more out of Doc Tornado. I'm not ANGRY or saying some character will magically become super good, I'm just saying consistency and the level of play will be a lot easier to evaluate and figure out.

Remapping and more flexible controls are not a "moot" point at all, they're a perfectly valid thing to bring up when the 3DS doesn't even let you reassign buttons properly!

 

[SonicZeroX]

Also Rosalina is not that fast and is still the 4th lightest character in the game. A random fresh usmash/fsmash from almost anyone at mid percents will kill her.

In theory you should almost never get hit by random smashes, but in theory no one ever SDs either but we know that's not true even at the highest level of play.

Basically in theory Rosalina is completely ridiculous compared to every other character because she has so many strengths and few weaknesses but in practice she can still be outplayed with a few hard reads just like anyone else.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

You can't really deny the lack of precision the 3DS platform has. Sure, I don't think x character is going to be better because of it, but I'm pretty damn sure it's going to be a helluva lot easier to deal with the GCN controller than that damn nub of a control stick with its weird ass button arrangement that we like to call the 3DS.

Smooth Criminal

 

[TTTTTsd]

You can't really deny the lack of precision the 3DS platform has. Sure, I don't think x character is going to be better because of it, but I'm pretty damn sure it's going to be a helluva lot easier to deal with than that damn nub of a control stick with its weird *** button arrangement.

Smooth Criminal

My point exactly.

It's also going to let DACUS exist and that's big for people like Ganon who have a damn good DACUS.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Not to mention the 3DS literally has fewer buttons than the GC controller, which means there's things you just can't do like DACUS.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I'm not johning at all. Where did that look like a complaint? I'm just saying that with a more comfortable controller, more things will be possible. I think you need to like, relax.

Let me use a nice example of Dr. Mario. Mashing B on the 3DS is really suboptimal, with custom controls I could map Y to special and get more out of Doc Tornado. I'm not ANGRY or saying some character will magically become super good, I'm just saying consistency and the level of play will be a lot easier to evaluate and figure out.

Remapping and more flexible controls are not a "moot" point at all, they're a perfectly valid thing to bring up when the 3DS doesn't even let you reassign buttons properly!

I didn't say that you were johning, I agree with what you were saying, I just went off on a bit of a tangent, because I've noticed literally every character board saying their character would be better upon wii u release. The characters who will actually benefit IMO will be characters who's games revolve around punishing (fox and sonic as examples).

 

[TTTTTsd]

Oh, my bad. Yeah I don't think it's going to drastically change things (I mean it could), it will definitely let us get more accurate data, and with every character being played with perfect precision we'll have a much more finite understanding of where they stand.

Also DACUS testing.

And yeah punish game chars are gonna benefit heavily. Doc, definitely Ganon, Fox as you said, plenty of others will appreciate the increased precision.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Robin outright gains a powerful retreating move in Fair and a more powerful and reliable aerial game because of the inclusion of the Cstick, so differences will exist.

 

[DanGR]

The truth is that Rosalina would already be a good character without Luma by her side. Her basic tools are somewhat straightforward and not that hard to use. Her recovery, her aerials, her dash attack and her throws are all at least very solid and serve a clear purpose. I'm pretty sure not a single of her moves is useless. I wouldn't be surprised if all of her moves were good in some way. And it all doesn't really have to do anything with Luma.

The front hitbox of her nair is still impossible to punish if Luma isn't there.

Just because her potential seems to be almost immeasurable doesn't mean that she's difficult to pick up.

That's a huge exaggeration. I don't know where a lot of the community gets this idea from, but Rosalina has very definite weaknesses without Luma, and most definitely wouldn't be a top or high tier character without Luma. Probably not mid-tier either. And I wouldn't exactly call a mid-tier character "good" if that's what you were referring to instead.

Yes all of her moves when Luma is gone "have a use." 99% of moves in this game have a use. However, no that does not necessarily make them good moves.

The hitbox on her uptilt is only present on the ring. This makes it incredibly weak both as an anti-air move and against grounded opponents because she can't cover just about anything diagonally. Anyone who gets hit by her uptilt would be hit by just about any other move anyways, so there's really not much reason to use it when Luma isn't there.

The hitbox on her nair is only on the feet. While it has low cooldown at the end, it takes a while for Rosalina to swing her feet around her body in order to get it into that position. So you can smack her when she makes the initial swing-around movement, before the hitbox reaches her front side, or even afterwards with a jump-canceled move out of shield. The way I see most people try to punish Rosalina's n-air is the same way people tried to punish ZSS' down smash upon Brawl's release, except Rosalina's n-air has way more start-up, no frame advantage, and overall far less use cases. Rosalina's n-air without Luma is somewhat strictly a zoning tool.

F-air takes too long to be very usable in a neutral position. Yes, this is a minor point in a vacuum. However, I bring this up for 2 reasons. Firstly, her air game from the front without Luma is incredibly risky to use when you're trying to make it back to a neutral position from high up. N-air takes a while for the hitbox to reach anywhere in front or below her. You may as well time a b-air if you're going to try to use n-air while being juggled. F-air has considerable after-lag if you don't land with it. And d-air only covers directly under her. Consider all of that along with her floatyness and you can reasonably understand she becomes much more easily juggled without Luma's hitboxes there. Secondly, If you consider her poor front-ward air game, and the small hitbox on her uptilt, she has a pretty blatant weakness against aerials and any characters that use them often.

Next I'm going to list some aspects of Rosalina's gameplay that are removed when Luma reaches 52 total dmg, is knocked away from her, or is knocked offstage. Keep in mind some of these weaknesses are realistically dwarfed when you consider she's got a projectile absorption move with Luma coming back on a timer. But we're theorizing Rosalina without Luma permanently, here.

• Much, much fewer of her moves combo into each other when Luma is dead.
• She loses her projectile.
• She loses literally half her range.
• She loses hitboxes in areas that normally cover the angles and timings Rosalina by herself is particularly weak against.
• She loses her zoning game.
• She loses any kind of decent offensive pressure.
• She loses combos from a grab.
• She loses a little bit of kill power on her smashes.
• She loses combined damage from moves that would normally hit with both Rosalina and Luma's hitboxes.
• She loses additional safety on block on every move that had it.

Edit: Her basic kit reminds me of Brawl's Zelda, kinda

 

[Iron Kraken]

Also Rosalina is not that fast and is still the 4th lightest character in the game. A random fresh usmash/fsmash from almost anyone at mid percents will kill her.

In theory you should almost never get hit by random smashes, but in theory no one ever SDs either but we know that's not true even at the highest level of play.

Basically in theory Rosalina is completely ridiculous compared to every other character because she has so many strengths and few weaknesses but in practice she can still be outplayed with a few hard reads just like anyone else.

Rosalina isn't broken. Of course she can be outplayed and beaten if the Rosalina player is outplayed. I just feel that Rosalina doesn't really have any disadvantageous match ups.

---

Another common Rosalina misconception I see is that people like to claim that she's only so dominant in For Glory because it's Final Destination only. The logic is supposed to be that Luma wouldn't be able to space out effectively if the stage wasn't flat. But in fact, Rosalina might be even better on a stage like Battlefield because her aerials are so good and her attacks rip through platforms so easily.

To highlight this, Dabuz (who is the top American Smash 3DS player at the moment, and mains Rosalina) will pick Battlefield over Final Destination when given the chance.

 

[deepseadiva]

I have some frame estimates for Rosalina's D-smash. They MAY NOT BE 100% ACCURATE because I don't have high quality 60 fps footage, but I believe these numbers at the very least are likely accurate within an error margin of 1 or at worst 2 frames.

This reminds me of that one thread where some Pit player "estimated" his frame data.

"Fsmash 2-3 frames"

"Jab frame 1"

"Dsmash 3-4 frames"

 

[Tagxy]

Supposedly Sheik may be a disadvantaged MU for Rosalina according to Rain. In fact, he just dropped rosalina for sheik stating he feels powerless against sheik. Apparently several of Japan's top players believe sheik to be SS tier.

Dont know if I buy it, but certainly interesting.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Not to get into a huge discussion about this, but I actually feel almost the polar opposite. I think she's currently being overrated for several reasons and while she is SUPER good and will remain super good, a lot of her tools aren't properly understood and thus people are making mistakes they will not in the future. For example, people will try to grab her normally. Did you know that many grabs in this game are invincible during the animations? There are actually several ways to safely grab and throw Rosaluma without getting punished, but they are specific.

Several other characters can actually outspace Rosaluma that are connected (most notably I think Yoshi does a really good job of this) and if they are apart most people don't really understand how luma works well enough to feel comfortable making good decisions being close to Luma when it can be extremely safe to do so.

3DS johns are a small part of this, as being meticulously spaced quickly is seeing a small nerf at the moment which will work against her since she is so floaty. People are not edgeguarding her correctly which granted takes some investment that she has some options around but did you know that you can hit Rosalina through the stage as she rides up it to sweetspot? Several characters can. How many people do these types of things right now? Barely any.

Personally I also think ROB has a tough time. His gyro and laser get nullified pretty hard and her tilts can outspace his. It becomes a sort of poke game where he has some advantages but his size makes him prime target to be juggled and she can easily harass him as he tries to return.

Now don't get me wrong, I do think Rosalina is a top character in this game. It's annoying though to see such overly dramatic notions when there aren't issues like her having a move that a large majority of the cast has no answer to. She doesn't have a magic pressure button. Her tools are really good and she forces people to play differently. She has not, however, shown any sort of inclination that she is such a dominant force as to have no bad MUs. Nor does she utterly polarize a lot of MUs in the game even if she does win a ton of them.

tl;dr: Don't use your For Glory experience as justification for this character's good and bad traits.

I'm not sure why you think I'm being so dramatic. I didn't say Rosalina was broken, I merely said that in my experience so far I don't think she has any particularly disadvantageous match ups. I don't think she has an advantageous match up against every other character... but I think she has advantageous match ups against most characters, and no glaringly disadvantageous match ups.

Yes, Rosalina has her weaknesses. If she didn't, then she would be broken. But I think those weaknesses are easily outweighed by her advantages.

Also, I didn't just base my opinion on my personal For Glory experiences. I also base it from what I have seen in tournament play so far. Rosalina has been excelling in the tournament scene so far. Dabuz hasn't lost a single set with Rosalina yet in all the tournaments he has entered. He lost one set when he tried to go Greninja, but never with his Rosalina. Watching vidoes of Dabuz and others really bring out the full power of R&L shows what a monster she can be.

If tiers are defined by what the elite players can do with characters, then so far Dabuz is making a pretty good case for Rosalina.

 

[A2ZOMG]

This reminds me of that one thread where some Pit player "estimated" his frame data.

"Fsmash 2-3 frames"

"Jab frame 1"

"Dsmash 3-4 frames"

I'm good at frame counting. You just have to realize that the footage I have is 30fps, meaning there's a 50% chance that I am 1 frame off from analyzing the correct activation frame.

 

[DanGR]

I have some frame estimates for Rosalina's D-smash. They MAY NOT BE 100% ACCURATE because I don't have high quality 60 fps footage, but I believe these numbers at the very least are likely accurate within an error margin of 1 or at worst 2 frames.

First hits around: ~8-9

Ends around: ~40

So realistically her D-smash should be close to around -30 on block if we assume 2 frames of shieldstun (her D-smash iirc does 7 damage). Not a move she should be trying to spam or space with honestly, though it does have decent range.

Keep in mind Luma's hitboxes appear on the opposite side of Rosalina's hitboxes during the move.

First hit: Rosalina hits in front while Luma covers her back.
Second hit: Rosalina cover her back while Luma hits in front.

So realistically, you need to account for Luma's second hitbox when calculating for frame disadvantage when hit in the front. Is it still -30?

Side note: both second hitboxes are stronger than the first (both damage and knockback).

 

[Emblem Lord]

Supposedly Sheik may be a disadvantaged MU for Rosalina according to Rain. In fact, he just dropped rosalina for sheik stating he feels powerless against sheik. Apparently several of Japan's top players believe sheik to be SS tier.

Dont know if I buy it, but certainly interesting.

To be fair to japan sheik is basically the only character that doesnt commit in the game. She cant kill worth a damn but everything she does is virtually no risk/moderate reward.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

Thoughts on Pit anyone?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Solid as ****. The Ryu of this game imo.

 

[Tagxy]

Not to say that Rosalina ISNT the best character, but I certainly feel skeptical about a character with comparatively low mobility being the best in a series that places such great emphasis on it. If you look to previous titles this theme is pervasive as well. Of course Brawl ICs present the best example of a less than mobile character doing well in the series in spite of this, which allows for comparisons to Rosalina. Still, I think people are overhyping Rosalina a bit too much when her slow movement is more than just a typical weakness, especially as players improve their own mobility.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Keep in mind Luma's hitboxes appear on the opposite side of Rosalina's hitboxes during the move.

First hit: Rosalina hits in front while Luma covers her back.
Second hit: Rosalina cover her back while Luma hits in front.

So realistically, you need to account for Luma's second hitbox when calculating for frame disadvantage.

I only have good footage of Solo Rosalina using D-smash, so I can't say anything for certain about how Luma's attack works. Though the 2nd hit appears to be active close to around frame 16-17, which assuming Luma is active around that time would still leave the attack about -21 on block, which can be punishable by properly buffered DAs.

Actually on second thought, assuming hitting people with Luma doesn't put you in hitlag, it may in fact be safer than that, which would in fact get kinda silly.

 

[meleebrawler]

Solid as ****. The Ryu of this game imo.

I'd argue that Ryu would be Dr. Mario, Mario would be Ken, and Luigi
be Dan Hibiki, but I'm not thinking stats here.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Thoughts on Pit anyone?

From what I've seen, he's really good for racking up damage, but has issues getting in a KO move. I can see the character having potential if you can find a reliable way to KO with him.

 

[Gea]

Not to say that Rosalina ISNT the best character, but I certainly feel skeptical about a character with comparatively low mobility being the best in a series that places such great emphasis on it. If you look to previous titles this theme is pervasive as well. Of course Brawl ICs present the best example of a less than mobile character doing well in the series in spite of this, which allows for comparisons to Rosalina. Still, I think people are overhyping Rosalina a bit too much when her slow movement is more than just a typical weakness, especially as players improve their own mobility.

Maybe if she had some sort of amazing low % kill option I'd be more worried about her. She has several "bad" smash traits that keep her in check. If she was Kirby's size with some sort of killmove that had invincibility on start up and... wait a minute...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Supposedly Sheik may be a disadvantaged MU for Rosalina according to Rain. In fact, he just dropped rosalina for sheik stating he feels powerless against sheik. Apparently several of Japan's top players believe sheik to be SS tier.

Dont know if I buy it, but certainly interesting.

I certainly don't buy it.