Character Competitive Impressions

[TriTails]

As for other characters, I toy with Shulk and Greninja.

Try Luigi and you'll be extremely thankful on how your airspeed is the best in the game.

Villager can btw tech off walls if he goes down by a down taunt so don't let him pick omegas and duck hunt

Aye aye!

 

[Trifroze]

Kill power isn't the same as ability to kill. U-smash KOs like a pro, and it has strong kill power. Landing it is a different story, but for killing power, Pika's got the bean.

Now if you wrote, "Pikachu can't kill/end stocks reliably". Then yes, that is true.

This is a matter of semantics then, personally when I refer to "kill power" in a competitive context I automatically disregard unreliable options. If it's something that cannot be landed, it's irrelevant to begin with. "Killing ability" may be a more understandable term in the future.

 

[Kofu]

I could be wrong but do remember that her giant head is really high up

True, Villager's ledge hang animation is amusingly vulnerable. FTilt does hit ledge hangers, too.

 

[TheZyzyva]

Ok Slush, its good to know you do see his strengths as well, cause I swear man, the way you talk about Yoshi sometimes its like you feel hes low tier! Id love to see your fully elaborated feelings on him sometime, since you do seem to try and be objective about him most of the time.

In fact, I would love to read some dissertations about chars by their mains from a lot of people. As a non-competitive player I live for that stuff and feel a lot of people can benefit from that kind of knowledge dump.

 

[TriTails]

This is a matter of semantics then, personally when I refer to "kill power" in a competitive context I automatically disregard unreliable options. If it's something that cannot be landed, it's irrelevant to begin with. "Killing ability" may be a more understandable term in the future.

Yeah. I usually refer "KO power" to "How strong the move is" and "Killing ability" to "How well does this character kill". Feels much more understandable.

 

[HeroMystic]

I'm always amused when people don't think Slush knows what he's talking about.

 

[Shaya]

Flip Jump is nigh unpunishable, but flip kick and flip footstool are death sentences.

It's invincible shortly after start up for about a quarter of her graphic effect, after the invincibility is over she starts automatically footstooling things, she can input her two kicks at this stage too. While I'm not certain it's at least 10-15 frames 'start up'.

The comment of "find me someone punishing this on shield" was hard for me to take seriously. I'm unaware of any high level players complaining about not being able to punish this move. And have I been punished before? Yes. Many many times.
How about finding me a tournament video where ZSS gets away with flip jumping onto people's shields or her using flip jump liberally at all?
The move is completely bogus on wifi to the extent that I choose not to use that move at all beyond recovering, even against the most annoying of for glory opponents. Not only do I lose the control to maneuver it to the extent I pride myself on (I don't want to EVER bounce on someone's shield and rooting people on wifi usually feels "random" lol) but if I do choose poorly no one's going to punish it (it's very hard to react to the direction she's going to fly towards in lag).

 

[Trifroze]

What's funny is that this was just a subject elsewhere and I ended up making this:

If Ganondorf can run after it max distance and punish after shield pushback, anything is possible.

 

[TriTails]

If Ganondorf can run after it max distance and punish after shield pushback, anything is possible.

is sad.

 

[David Viran]

I've seen nairo and choco against good players get away with footstooling sheilds from flip jump with evasive maneuvers. It's still something a ZSS player will try to avoid.

 

[Ffamran]

Try Luigi and you'll be extremely thankful on how your airspeed is the best in the game.

Slush said he played Falco once in SSB4. I think he said it was the most awful experience he ever had.

Then again, people get used to their main and even with secondaries, sometimes it feels like an eye opener to how people deal with other characters. So, for me, Falco's Dtilt and Ftilt are awesome which leads to me using Fox's Dtilt and Ftilt a lot and wondering why people aren't using his Dtilt more while Ftilt's Ftilt. There's also the realization that Fox's jab cancel is pathetically easy to do. Then I play as Rosalina and I'm like, "How does she even work?!" or when I play as Sheik and I feel weirded out by her lack of power since I'm so used to Falco's knockback.

is sad.

What if ZSS pushes him towards her?

 

[TriTails]

What if ZSS pushes him towards her?

...Is that even possible?

I'm just going to guess I'll have to rely a lot on Cyclone to catch her.

But can anyone test it? It's impossible to do in a 3DS.

 

[Smog Frog]

how do people feel about with customs? i think that not even being able to press advantage safely is a pretty big advantage for . can any other character claim to be able to kill at 50% when an opponent presses advantage just a little too hard?

 

[Shaya]

I've seen nairo and choco against good players get away with footstooling sheilds from flip jump with evasive maneuvers. It's still something a ZSS player will try to avoid.

Obviously you can get away with it, and that's what you're hoping for every time it happens. But the ability to hard punish Zamus because of it's vulnerability is definitely a thing.

Also was that ganondorf gif power shielding that? Hard to tell from eye balling it. But if we're talking about power shielding the footstool then yeah, very easy to punish it in that case.

 

[David Viran]

how do people feel about with customs? i think that not even being able to press advantage safely is a pretty big advantage for . can any other character claim to be able to kill at 50% when an opponent presses advantage just a little too hard?

You jump off the stage to hit zss with an aerial when she has down b. You are feeling about to get spiked if she dodges it with flip jump and die 50% or lower.

 

[Nu~]

how do people feel about with customs? i think that not even being able to press advantage safely is a pretty big advantage for . can any other character claim to be able to kill at 50% when an opponent presses advantage just a little too hard?

Try juggling a Pacman with meteor trampoline without any land underneath you. Situational, I know lol

Still, you don't be anywhere underneath him with that strong as hell frame 3 spike.

 

[DunnoBro]

how do people feel about with customs? i think that not even being able to press advantage safely is a pretty big advantage for . can any other character claim to be able to kill at 50% when an opponent presses advantage just a little too hard?

Gonna be using him at Xanadu tomorrow, I think he has mad potential.

Really mad they screwed my entry up last custom tourney. Was the first to sign-up but somehow the computer messed up and no one noticed until it was too late.

 

[Antonykun]

Gonna be using him at Xanadu tomorrow, I think he has mad potential.

Really mad they screwed my entry up last custom tourney. Was the first to sign-up but somehow the computer messed up and no one noticed until it was too late.

heres hoping you make it in next time. I love watching your work

 

[HeavyLobster]

how do people feel about with customs? i think that not even being able to press advantage safely is a pretty big advantage for . can any other character claim to be able to kill at 50% when an opponent presses advantage just a little too hard?

Customdorf is terrifying. Not really reliable at the highest levels, but no one wants to face a character who can end anyone in a couple of reads, is tough to gimp, and can't really be safely walled out anymore. Not unbeatable, but scary because he can armor through your normally safe aerials and splatter you across the screen at 50% at any time, even if it's really risky to try.

 

[Trifroze]

Custom Ganondorf is probably a better character than roughly half the cast, although he's a tough character to accurately rank because he pretty much ignores the "rules" of Smash, in a way similar to Lucario. He can lose most of the match and then kill you in 2-3 reads (except he doesn't need to take on percents for that), but we've all heard this a hundred times. What customs do for him is give him a good recovery and a way to punish most projectiles and commitments through Wizard's Dropkick, and Dark Fists is a powerful multipurpose kill move with decently fast hitbox and superarmor that can effectively be used as a counter. I think it also has more recovery utility than his regular up b, and hits opponents through the stage. As a side note I think the sword punch also destroys Luma pretty hard.

 

[Ffamran]

...Is that even possible?

I'm just going to guess I'll have to rely a lot on Cyclone to catch her.

But can anyone test it? It's impossible to do in a 3DS.

I have no idea. Anything's possible like killing someone with the shoulder of Giant Punch.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I personally believe that is still a polarizing character just because of how ridiculous her MU ratio is:

After patch, it's either even or in her favor
Even or slightly in her favor
in her favor since she's is one of the few if not only characters who do not care about his neutral shenanigans
Greatly in her favor since she has everything to beat captain falcon reliably and is consistent in doing so (one of his worst MU)
boards consider their worst MU
very bad for Luigi if plays the MU correctly (considered his worst MU)
I have no clue since he doesn't get any noticeable nor do I never fight any, but I can prolly concur that it's in her favor
in her favor (although really the only heavy that can somewhat play against her)
in her favor
in her favor
in her favor
in her favor
Even
in her favor
have horrible MU or bad MU against her (considered their worst MU)
only character that has any noticeable advantages against and even then it's 45:55 at best or I dare say Even considering just how crap Lucario Neutral is against her
in her favor greatly (platforms really screw him over in 1v1)
in her favor
I don't really know
Slightly in sheik favor ?
bad, very bad, she has everything that Robin hates
in her favor
bad for samus
in her favor
in her favor
in her favor
bad for palutena
bad for zelda
The rest of the cast I have not enough knowledge or I just forgot to include them in :[.

There's no surprise why sheik is so dominating/polarizing in smash 4.

• God-Like Frame Data from various aspects such as rolls, avoiding some combos, (Fox comes to mind) and the fact that a lot of her moves auto-cancel or comes out fast.
• Very High Speed + Safety = Nightmare for heavier/campy characters.
• Needlez... did I mention needlez?
• Bouncing Fish
• Greatly benefits from platforms and low ceilings (uair kills) generally she has advantageous on every stage
• Nearly impossible to gimp if not impossible
• Infinite options/combos
• Virtually no lag or noticeable lag to properly punish for (even when shielding she can just go ham at you not to mention her tomahawk is very good)

While she does have weaknesses (very few) in fact since her not killing early doesn't mean jack if you can't touch her or if you get needle camped to death by her, these weaknesses for a lot of the characters cannot be properly exploited due to smash 4 mechanics and the fact she' so safe on everything she does making it very hard for some characters to even do anything. I really don't know what the Smash 4 team was thinking when they decided to make character that is both rush-down/campy, is very safe, and also having one of the best projectiles all in 1 package. Sheik's effectiveness never came from her Kill-Power but from her being able to adapt to any situation, controlling the pace of match (due to needles), and being on of the best edgeguarders and combo character in the game. I am not hating on sheik either heck I am a sheik main and I do believe her character design is one of the most balanced in the game, a true competitive character one in which you have to truly use and learn in order to be effective , however her environment she's in (Smash 4) makes her so unfair against the rest of the cast, if other characters had better movement options or lag cancels then yes she wouldn't be that threatening however since this is not the case, I believe will get even more nastier as her meta progresses. Also ZeRo's Sheik seems like the pinnacle of her metagame. I really do find her to the most complex and interesting characters to analyze in smash 4 however

Also sorry about the long post, but I currently do not know how to use spoilers since this is my very first post on the forums, however I been lurking quite a while now :O

 

[Pyr]

I have many words. I just don't have the time to say them.

Will say that Sheik isn't that bad for Luigi, and there are far worse things that are dealt with for the green man. Even when played "correctly."

 

[Blobface]

Custom Ganon is amazing.

Dropkick is an amazing recovery move and might actually be good enough to make Sheik an even matchup for Ganon since Ganon becomes near-invincible when recovering. It makes gimps, which Ganon usually despises, (almost) a non-issue.

It does come with significant tradeoffs however. It's mainly useful in matchups where recovery takes priority over the benefits Wizkick provides.

Dark Fists though... I shouldn't even have to explain much. I wrote an entire guide about this move. It's that good.

• Allows Ganon to kill you from disadvantage at 50%, even deadlier when combined with Wizkick.
• Armor for breaking through gimps and countering otherwise safe aerials that Ganon usually hates.
• Allows for true combos at low %'s, puts people in disadvantage against friggin' Ganon at mid %'s, and outright kills at higher %'s if you hit someone on the ledge with the uppercut.
• Both hits are affected by rage, meaning not only is the uppercut stronger, but you get carried up closer to the blastzone too.
• Did I mention the full rage uppercut is almost as strong as Ganon's full rage sweetspotted Up-Smash?

 

[HeavyLobster]

I personally believe that is still a polarizing character just because of how ridiculous her MU ratio is:

After patch, it's either even or in her favor
Even or slightly in her favor
in her favor since she's is one of the few if not only characters who do not care about his neutral shenanigans
Greatly in her favor since she has everything to beat captain falcon reliably and is consistent in doing so (one of his worst MU)
boards consider their worst MU
very bad for Luigi if plays the MU correctly (considered his worst MU)
I have no clue since he doesn't get any noticeable nor do I never fight any, but I can prolly concur that it's in her favor
in her favor (although really the only heavy that can somewhat play against her)
in her favor
in her favor
in her favor
in her favor
Even
in her favor
have horrible MU or bad MU against her (considered their worst MU)
only character that has any noticeable advantages against and even then it's 45:55 at best or I dare say Even considering just how crap Lucario Neutral is against her
in her favor greatly (platforms really screw him over in 1v1)
in her favor
I don't really know
Slightly in sheik favor ?
bad, very bad, she has everything that Robin hates
in her favor
bad for samus
in her favor
in her favor
in her favor
bad for palutena
bad for zelda
The rest of the cast I have not enough knowledge or I just forgot to include them in :[.

There's no surprise why sheik is so dominating/polarizing in smash 4.

• God-Like Frame Data from various aspects such as rolls, avoiding some combos, (Fox comes to mind) and the fact that a lot of her moves auto-cancel or comes out fast.
• Very High Speed + Safety = Nightmare for heavier/campy characters.
• Needlez... did I mention needlez?
• Bouncing Fish
• Greatly benefits from platforms and low ceilings (uair kills) generally she has advantageous on every stage
• Nearly impossible to gimp if not impossible
• Infinite options/combos
• Virtually no lag or noticeable lag to properly punish for (even when shielding she can just go ham at you not to mention her tomahawk is very good)

While she does have weaknesses (very few) in fact since her not killing early doesn't mean jack if you can't touch her or if you get needle camped to death by her, these weaknesses for a lot of the characters cannot be properly exploited due to smash 4 mechanics and the fact she' so safe on everything she does making it very hard for some characters to even do anything. I really don't know what the Smash 4 team was thinking when they decided to make character that is both rush-down/campy, is very safe, and also having one of the best projectiles all in 1 package. Sheik's effectiveness never came from her Kill-Power but from her being able to adapt to any situation, controlling the pace of match (due to needles), and being on of the best edgeguarders and combo character in the game. I am not hating on sheik either heck I am a sheik main and I do believe her character design is one of the most balanced in the game, a true competitive character one in which you have to truly use and learn in order to be effective , however her environment she's in (Smash 4) makes her so unfair against the rest of the cast, if other characters had better movement options or lag cancels then yes she wouldn't be that threatening however since this is not the case, I believe will get even more nastier as her meta progresses. Also ZeRo's Sheik seems like the pinnacle of her metagame. I really do find her to the most complex and interesting characters to analyze in smash 4 however

Also sorry about the long post, but I currently do not know how to use spoilers since this is my very first post on the forums, however I been lurking quite a while now :O

I predict we'll see a lot of pocket 's and 's as the meta develops. even moreso with customs as Meteor Stone and Jumping Inhale are good ways of dealing with custom and respectively.

 

[Trifroze]

Greatly in her favor since she has everything to beat captain falcon reliably and is consistent in doing so (one of his worst MU)

Not sure why this is a thing, Sheik only really destroys Falcon offstage while Falcon KOs Sheik earlier everywhere else. Sometimes we die at 180% and sometimes 80%, but it's hard to get gimped earlier than that because we don't get sent that far offstage even by fair strings and Falcon's recovery is good at shorter distances because of the increased options. Sheik usually dies at 100-130% and gets to those percents much faster assuming equal amount of hits landed. It's not unpractical either since Falcon's neutral is on par with Sheik at mid range where needles are punishable on shield, dtilt outranges her ground options, uair and bair trade with her fair and are both safe on shield, and all her actions are in danger to be punished by Falcon's dash grab on reaction while she only really has dash attack which we can do too with similar speed.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) http://smashboards.com/threads/come...hread-lap-4-sonic.399692/page-2#post-19136417

 

[Ffamran]

@ **Gilgamesh** , welcome to the Character Competitive Impressions thread. Please don't make vague statements like that for a MU spread. If you do, then go into detail even if that means you're only talking about one MU for Sheik. So, all of this is not okay as they're vague and add little to the discussion - they might even incite heated arguments which isn't something we want.

After patch, it's either even or in her favor
Even or slightly in her favor
in her favor since she's is one of the few if not only characters who do not care about his neutral shenanigans
Greatly in her favor since she has everything to beat captain falcon reliably and is consistent in doing so (one of his worst MU)
boards consider their worst MU
very bad for Luigi if plays the MU correctly (considered his worst MU)
in her favor (although really the only heavy that can somewhat play against her)
in her favor
in her favor
in her favor
in her favor
Even
in her favor
have horrible MU or bad MU against her (considered their worst MU)
only character that has any noticeable advantages against and even then it's 45:55 at best or I dare say Even considering just how crap Lucario Neutral is against her
in her favor greatly (platforms really screw him over in 1v1)
in her favor
bad, very bad, she has everything that Robin hates
in her favor
bad for samus
in her favor
in her favor
in her favor
bad for palutena
bad for zelda

These are worse as they imply ignorance and assumption. Never assume things and if you don't know something, then ask or don't put an assumption as that's misinformation which has already killed several characters in the metagame and some of them haven't even recovered from first impressions and misinformation.

I have no clue since he doesn't get any noticeable nor do I never fight any, but I can prolly concur that it's in her favor
I don't really know
Slightly in sheik favor ?

Like you said, if you don't have enough knowledge, then don't post them and if you do, as I said, ask about them.

The rest of the cast I have not enough knowledge or I just forgot to include them in :[.

This part is your strongest argument for Sheik as it does go into detail on why Sheik is a powerful character. Posts like these are encouraged and preferred.

There's no surprise why sheik is so dominating/polarizing in smash 4.

• God-Like Frame Data from various aspects such as rolls, avoiding some combos, (Fox comes to mind) and the fact that a lot of her moves auto-cancel or comes out fast.
• Very High Speed + Safety = Nightmare for heavier/campy characters.
• Needlez... did I mention needlez?
• Bouncing Fish
• Greatly benefits from platforms and low ceilings (uair kills) generally she has advantageous on every stage
• Nearly impossible to gimp if not impossible
• Infinite options/combos
• Virtually no lag or noticeable lag to properly punish for (even when shielding she can just go ham at you not to mention her tomahawk is very good)

While she does have weaknesses (very few) in fact since her not killing early doesn't mean jack if you can't touch her or if you get needle camped to death by her, these weaknesses for a lot of the characters cannot be properly exploited due to smash 4 mechanics and the fact she' so safe on everything she does making it very hard for some characters to even do anything. I really don't know what the Smash 4 team was thinking when they decided to make character that is both rush-down/campy, is very safe, and also having one of the best projectiles all in 1 package. Sheik's effectiveness never came from her Kill-Power but from her being able to adapt to any situation, controlling the pace of match (due to needles), and being on of the best edgeguarders and combo character in the game. I am not hating on sheik either heck I am a sheik main and I do believe her character design is one of the most balanced in the game, a true competitive character one in which you have to truly use and learn in order to be effective , however her environment she's in (Smash 4) makes her so unfair against the rest of the cast, if other characters had better movement options or lag cancels then yes she wouldn't be that threatening however since this is not the case, I believe will get even more nastier as her meta progresses. Also ZeRo's Sheik seems like the pinnacle of her metagame. I really do find her to the most complex and interesting characters to analyze in smash 4 however

Also sorry about the long post, but I currently do not know how to use spoilers since this is my very first post on the forums, however I been lurking quite a while now :O

 

[Megamang]

What is the trade off for Dark Fists? Does it have less distance when recovering? Because even then, it sure as hell is a better recovery move since trying to gimp ganon becomes a very risky thing at even moderate %. It seems to be a straight upgrade. Which is fine, ganon could use it when many others are getting them from customs. And it fits his character. Heavy Skull Bash should just be called Double Edge or Body Slam and do a little % to pika, IMO. WTF is a heavy skull bash?



Aaaanyways, kirby is an interesting shiek counter, he gets low AF and is pretty amazing with needles. But is lucario really? I understand the idea of shiek's killing problems and light weight really making aura effective, but I just don't see a character with such a meh neutral (I could be wrong, but I feel since Needles > AS, it is this way in this particular MU) having a chance against a high level shiek, the monster of smash4's neutral game. I have won using a pocket luc, but I think it was because the shiek truly didn't understand why he was dying at 50% to Force Palm, lols. And landing FP on a shiek isn't exactly easy, she can be campy without a shield, and then what do you do?

 

[Pyr]

What is the trade off for Dark Fists? Does it have less distance when recovering? Because even then, it sure as hell is a better recovery move since trying to gimp ganon becomes a very risky thing at even moderate %. It seems to be a straight upgrade. Which is fine, ganon could use it when many others are getting them from customs. And it fits his character. Heavy Skull Bash should just be called Double Edge or Body Slam and do a little % to pika, IMO. WTF is a heavy skull bash?

Not a Ganon main, but... It starts up slower (stalls in the air for a moment before rising) and it seems harder to sweetspot the ledge with. Considering the Montana hitbox at the end, though... And the armor on start...

Distance seems the same, or a bit better, though.

 

[Shaya]

Sonic is one of those characters I think I see beating Sheik on nearly every occasion I've personally seen from high level players.
People really really really overrate Needles. "Oh no, I have to stop or fast fall into shield a bit more often".
Why do people think Sonic's neutral involves charging SPINS from the other side of the stage ? This character can jump cancel as well as maintain his charge from a jump. Nothing distinctively getting in sonic's way against Sheik other than air vs air where Sonic just doesn't have the aerials needed to combat fair, bair, nair reliably. Even otherwise, it doesn't matter when a needle on his shield from like half of the stage away can be dash grabbed lol.

I could go on and on here but university beckons and I shouldn't be on smashboards at all but UGH.

 

[HeavyLobster]

What is the trade off for Dark Fists? Does it have less distance when recovering? Because even then, it sure as hell is a better recovery move since trying to gimp ganon becomes a very risky thing at even moderate %. It seems to be a straight upgrade. Which is fine, ganon could use it when many others are getting them from customs. And it fits his character. Heavy Skull Bash should just be called Double Edge or Body Slam and do a little % to pika, IMO. WTF is a heavy skull bash?

The tradeoff for Ganondorf is the lack of a grabbox, the dead zone in between punches, and the fact that the hit box comes out 2 frames slower.(which doesn't mean much considering the armor and power upgrade) The grabbox might come in handy vs some armored up-Bs, but the rest really don't matter, so it is more or less a straight upgrade barring some very niche circumstances. Dive might actually be better vs D3, as Dark Fists doesn't always connect reliably and the grabbox has use against his up B. Against basically anyone else Fists is pretty much an upgrade. The distance is in fact the same as Dive, maybe ever so slightly better horizontally due to the slower startup, but not noticeably different.

 

[Teshie U]

Not a Ganon main, but... It starts up slower (stalls in the air for a moment before rising) and it seems harder to sweetspot the ledge with. Considering the Montana hitbox at the end, though... And the armor on start...

Distance seems the same, or a bit better, though.

The tradeoff is supposed to be "but it doesn't grab opponents". Ironic because Ganon and Falcon players have been getting hit with tech jump to fair/bair for over a decade. Falcon and Ganon basically trade up by taking the non grabbing versions of their up B. Ganon already has a much better command grab and Falcon really doesn't need one.

I'm pretty sure it sweetspots the same, but its always tempting to try to get the hitbox to come out first.


I think Mario has a good shot at beating sheik. Aside from having very competitive frame data, he has many safe and powerful kill options and one of the few gimp games that can actually be applied vs sheik. He can keep up with her in neutral and has a pretty reliable recovery.

 

[Browny]

What's funny is that this was just a subject elsewhere and I ended up making this:

If Ganondorf can run after it max distance and punish after shield pushback, anything is possible.

Um, ZSS didnt even attack, she just landed on the shield. When she attacks she can act out of the shield bounce sooner and ganon cant punish it no matter which way she goes.

Only characters like marth with fast, long range aerials and a quick jump can hit her.

 

[Shaya]

When she attacks she can act out of the shield bounce sooner

Are you kidding me? If you aren't punishing a now non-moving/no momentum available HUGE cooldown action like this with ANYONE I'll be shocked.

Her footstool jump "attack" is safer than her kicking a shield, I can assure you.

 

[Browny]

Go on test it

When she bounces off the shield she literally cant move until she hits the ground. When she kicks the shield she can jump out well above dash attacks height.

 

[Shaya]

So what? She doesn't GO anywhere.
Have an aerial that kills? Or an Up smash ?
Heck any aerial, because she's suddenly a sitting duck without an escape who can't get her down b back until she lands. If you knock her off stage she only has tether for any horizontal distance.

Depending on where she hits your shield, she doesn't bounce anywhere properly at all and is even likely to land on the ground. I'm so confused on where you're coming from with this lol.

 

[irokex13]

Why is it that some characters get underestimated or underrated so much by this community? Honestly, is a pretty strong character, having the tools needed to handle most, if not all, situations. While they have terrible mobility, they often don't have to approach due to just how solid their projectiles are.
Thunder is a constant threat, and each level of it has a purpose. Thunder can disrupt foes and tack on a quick 3% with its surprising range, Elthunder travels a great distance with good speed that deals a solid 9% (also very good for catching wakeup options), Arcthunder can be used with Arcfire for some intense shield pressure and can kill earlier than Thoron, and Thoron is a strong, fast 18% kill move that can be used at any time. That's a big deal, because the moment you charge it up, your opponent CANNOT commit to anything from mid to long distances and they have to respect it when throwing out projectiles or dashing attacks, as most trades will be in Robin's favor.

Arcfire is quite poor as a "get off me" move, but it can keep does off of you and can condition your foes to jump at you to try to avoid the fire and punish you. But if an opponent gets caught in an Arcfire, that's an almost guaranteed 25%, and that's a big deal considering how strong Robin's aerials are. It can also combo into Nosferatu if one is fast enough to do so.

Nosferatu is a solid command grab you can land after conditioning your opponent to shield in certain scenarios, and the reward is very good for landing it. It also has deceptively large vertical range, making it more useful on platform stages.

Elwind is a decent recovery move and it can spike and get Robin out of juggles if timed correctly.

We all know Robin is powerful with all the tomes and the Levin sword, but these items only have limited ammo, so once they run out, Robin's helpless, right? Nope. Catching a tome/sword puts so much pressure on the opponent. Do they rush you down to take advantage of the depleted item and potentially take 15%+ damage that can also kill, or do they wait it out, giving Robin the time needed to generate a new sword or tome? The items also deal a good amount of shield damage and can be regrabbed if they bounce off a shield. And done forget that Robin can still use other special moves while holding a tome/sword (shield pressure with Arcfire/Arcthunder, force an approach by charging to Thoron, punish shields with Nosferatu).

Another huge thing to note is that thanks to the fix to Robin's wind jab, they now have a frame 4 attack that kills at very good percentages. While many characters can jump out of the jab before the final hit at later percentages (a problem that Robin can address by delaying the hits between the first and second slices of the jab), there are about 7 characters that cannot DI or jump out before getting hit by the final strike. These characters are Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Fox, Falco, Captain Falcon, Greninja, and Charizard. This is important to note as all of these characters bar Falco and Charizard are noted to be problematic for Robin, but now these characters have yet another attack to respect at kill percents (about 120% for most, earlier with rage) and again, this move comes out on frame 4.

I know this is a huge tangent on Robin, but their abilities are underrated so often despite the fact that they have solid tools. Robin has an above average learning curve because they get punished very hard if one cannot properly execute their neutral game, but the options are there. There's plenty of stuff I didn't mention, but I think I got the point across.

 

[TriTails]

'Sheik is Luigi's worst MU'

is laughing. Hard.

Luigi VS Sheik is perfectly manageable. Sure, she exploits Luigi really well. But don't forget her fast falling speed means combo fodder for Luigi, and Luigi can kill her in about 2-3 solid strings. And also, Luigi is probaly the only one that can challenge Sheik's aerials, given his own very fast yet powerful aerials. And F3 N-air is pretty golden in here.

People act like Sheik is a wolf to a rabbit to Luigi, when it really isn't...

I think Mario has a good shot at beating sheik. Aside from having very competitive frame data, he has many safe and powerful kill options and he has one of few gimp games that can actually be applied vs Sheik He can keep up with her in neutral and has a pretty reliable recovery.

Bolded parts. I need explanation.

 

[PUK]

I think he talked about the water. Bouncing fish is highly vulnerable to everything, and vanish has quite e bit of start up. So FLUDD works greatly.

 

[TriTails]

I think he talked about the water. Bouncing fish is highly vulnerable to everything, and vanish has quite e bit of start up. So FLUDD works greatly.

How does Mario gimp Sheik if she decides to recover vertically to the ledge? Sweetspotting N-air is hard enough, and gimping that Vanish is going to be hard. Screw up, and you're getting stage-spiked by the explosion. Unless we are talking customs here (Then again, what FLUDD can hit belowledge?), where Mario can just go 'Super Windbox Bros.' with Gust Cape.

Mario mains, feel free to disagree since my knowledge about the red clad plumber isn't so great.

Oh, and by the way, if you had mastered Luigi's Jumpless Cyclone, and Sheik has used her double jump, if you spike her with the Cyclone at the start of a Vanish she will plummet downwards with hitstun. And that's a stock. Just thought I'd point this out. It's something Mr. CC had found out, so credits to him.